"Andrew W" <ajwerner_zpam_@optushome.com.au> wrote in message

"emsguy" <emsguy@hogsfan.com> wrote in message
news:be3b68f3.0308270801.55b12a8d@posting.google.com...

"Andrew W" <ajwerner_zpam_@optushome.com.au> wrote in message

news:<3f49365c$0$4190$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

Christianity is a fraud and neither I nor anyone else is obliged to

follow

it's orders.

Here are the reasons.

Pretty weak case.

1/ I am not guilty of original sin since I was not present and did

partake in the story of Adam and Eve. Besides, Adam and Eve did what

they

did because God didn't give them any reason not to. If they are not

given a

reason to avoid something then they have no reason to avoid it.
By the way, "you will die" is not a reason, it is a threat. Adam and

were like children. It is not nice to threaten children. Also Adam

Eve,

after being warned by God, had to investigate what good and evil was

they

could avoid getting into trouble. It just so happens that there was

tree

there which possessed the knowledge of good and evil. Perfect!

You are guilty. You have commited sin in your life just as every
other human. There is a penalty for sin so you are accountable for
your own actions. Even with human godless morality, atheists believe
there should be a form of punishment for wrongdoing.

Stop worrying about me. I'll take care of my own life.
Worry more about our elite religious leaders who have stolen your power

identity by sending you on a guilt trip.

After getting some advice from a friendly serpent, which by the way
god allowed to sneak in there, Eve reached out to solve the mystery

good and evil. Oops! Damn, a catch22. That's the tree that has the

forbidden

fruit. Children have short memories don't they. Never mind, God is
good. He will forgive their little memory slip. Oh, he didn't.

God stated plainly that they would die if they eat of the fruit. If
my parents warned me not to eat from the poison tree, and yet I
disobey, I have no right to blame them for my death.

Would your parents put a poisonous tree under your very nose in the

and then go away and see what happens?
Do your parents put you to the test like that or do they instead teach

everything there is to know about the world so you can live and grow

My parents would not lock me in a basement so I can not know that the
world outside is full of pain and danger. They would give me the
ability to make my own decisions and choices.

God keeps telling us how loving and compassionate he is and yet he keeps
looking for ways to kill us. Why? For a god he sure acts like a

Is it possible that this is not what god is like at all? Is it possible

the bible story is just a big fear campaign to make us all behave

and give away our power?

Where do you get that idea? Sin is what corrupts and kills, not God.

But they will get a second chance. Everyone gets a second chance,

especially

children who are first time offenders. Oh, they didn't get a second

chance.

Man, what a rotten god.

In order to give them a second chance, God must break his own rules
which would make him a liar which would make him not perfect.

Do the police break the law when they give you a second chance?

They would if they looked the other way while someone was commiting a
crime.

Would you prefer the law to be totally arbitrary and rigid?
Would that make you happy?
There is a thing called compassion. The god of the bible keeps talking

it but I don't think I've ever seen him use it yet.

The fact that we are enjoying another day of life while God allows
people to spit and curse his names and cause pain is proof enough.

We hear about it so much that we begin to believe that it's being used

it's nothing but a mind game.

Let's see how this god is doing so far. First he threatens the young

couple

and fails to give a reason, or any information what so ever for

something, that's strike one, then he tricks them with a catch 22 by

putting

the forbidden fruit on the very tree that could enlighten them as to

what is

right and wrong, that's strike two, then he fails to give them a

chance even though they are first time offenders. That's three

The god of the bible is out!
Wait a minute. Tree of knowledge - Knowledge is light. If this god

suppressing knowledge then HE is the god of darkness. Maybe the

was

really the benevolent one!

WIth the knowledge of sin and pain, they had nothing to benefit from
this knowledge.

Sin and pain are negative things. To have a rounded education you have

know how positive things come about too. How can you strive for good

and avoid bad things if you know nothing of how the world works?
Would you raise a child in total ignorance? It almost appears as though

wanted Adam and Eve to live like animals and yet he gave them almost
limitless intelligent faculties. Why do you suppose that? Don't you

something fishy about the bible story that's been shoved down our

Could the god of the bible and the creator of all things be the same

I don't think so.

God wanted to fellowship and have a relationship with Adam and Eve.
He can not do this if sin is present. God is so perfect that He can
not remain in the company of sin. This is why He can not allow
non-believers to enter heaven.

2/ I did not ask anyone, namely Jesus, to come and rescue me from

above

accusation. Pleading guilty to the above and accepting help to be

from

a questionable fate would incur a debt which I would have to repay.
Thanks but no thanks. I'm a honest and responsible person so I will

my

own debts thank you very much. Jesus has attempted to violate my

will

and my right to take responsibility for my own future by trying to

me

2000 years before I was born, from a crime I didn't personally

and

for which there is no proof that it even happened. How arrogant!

The wages of sin is death so if you8 wanna pay the price yourself,
then you will die.

So the story goes.
You don't question, you just believe. Right?
Good boy!

No, I am a seeker of truth, and the evidence supports Christianity.

3/ Who is Jesus? The only son of god? Then who or what am I? A

pet?

Religion has failed to answer this question so I am forced to make

own

conclusion. Here goes. I am a creation of the prime creator of this
universe. My creator is not a tyrannical dictator like the god of

bible

so I get to be who I want to be, not what an angry, vengeful,

and

hapless text based demigod wants me to be.

God created man out of love and to show his love.

Well he hasn't shown it yet.
Or haven't you noticed?
Oh that's right, you're too busy worrying about who's got what sins.

He shows it all the time.

--
Andrew.
Ex-catholic (Catholic who did some research)


Imagination is more important than knowledge.
- Albert Einstein

The truth about what's really happening in this world is here.
http://www.fourwinds10.com/

They would if they looked the other way while someone was commiting a
crime.

"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bibe1j$7h495$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de...

Andrew W wrote:

Wait a minute. Tree of knowledge - Knowledge is light. If this god is
suppressing knowledge then HE is the god of darkness. Maybe the
serpent was really the benevolent one!

The name "Lucifer" means something like "Bringer of Light", so maybe

you're

onto something.

Do you ever think that the Lucifer myth might somehow be related to the
Prometheus myth. Being punished by God/God's for bringing "light"...in

case fire in the other knowledge...to humanity.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:25:56 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
posted in alt.atheism:

Andrew W wrote:

Wait a minute. Tree of knowledge - Knowledge is light. If this god is
suppressing knowledge then HE is the god of darkness. Maybe the
serpent was really the benevolent one!

The name "Lucifer" means something like "Bringer of Light", so maybe you're
onto something.

I've said it before.

What if the god is the one the bible calls the devil, and the one it
calls "God" is really the evil one? There's no way Christians could
know, since they all believe the bible - which may just be the word
of, not their god, but their devil.

The irony would just be too good for words.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:25:56 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
posted in alt.atheism:

Andrew W wrote:

Wait a minute. Tree of knowledge - Knowledge is light. If this god is
suppressing knowledge then HE is the god of darkness. Maybe the
serpent was really the benevolent one!

The name "Lucifer" means something like "Bringer of Light", so maybe you're
onto something.

I've said it before.

What if the god is the one the bible calls the devil, and the one it
calls "God" is really the evil one? There's no way Christians could
know, since they all believe the bible - which may just be the word
of, not their god, but their devil.

The irony would just be too good for words.

What if the god is the one the bible calls the devil, and the one it
calls "God" is really the evil one? There's no way Christians could
know, since they all believe the bible - which may just be the word
of, not their god, but their devil.

The irony would just be too good for words.

Their conclusions
takes more faith than believing in a greater intelligence, designing and
creating the Universe.

"Ghost Rider" <ghostman@ghost.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93E1B02CB32AFghostmanghostcom@127.0.0.1...

"Adam & Eve" is part of the god/creation story, which has long ago
been debunked by science. Adam & Eve never existed, thus neither does
original sin. No original sin, no need for christs. And so forth, on
down the line. Science kicks out the bottom block, and the whole
edifice comes tumbling down.

You mean that same science that states, that the whole Universe in all
of it's complexity, intricacies, elements and LIFE itself all happened
by accident by some big bang of nothing crashing into nothing, or if it
wasn't nothing crashing into nothing, but chemistry, elements or
something, which they claim always existed ( however, they can't
believe that GOD always existed), still came crashing together and
created ALL of the many different forms of life, elements, energies,
powers etc? That would be like taking tin, lead, glass, plastic, zinc,
silicon, rubber, copper, nylon, etc and throwing it into the sea and
years later, a completely self-powered, self-healing, computer would
wash up on the beach. Talk about kicking the bottom out of science.
Their conclusions takes more faith than believing in a greater
intelligence, designing and creating the Universe.

However, you may not believe that original sin ever took place, but
that doesn't give you any excuses for the sins that YOU commit and the
evil in YOUR heart. Therefore, how will YOU be forgiven of your sins
and evil?