Religions > Atheism > Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
05 Oct 2006 05:30:04 PM |
| Object: |
Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
http://www.cathnews.com/news/411/131.php
Atheist supports Ratzinger crusade against secularism
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher J=FCrgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Habermas, who defines himself as "a methodical atheist", is a member of
the Frankfurt School of philosophy. His most recent essay - A Time of
Transition - was published in Italy this month.
Sandro Magister, the Vatican affairs writer for the Italian news
magazine l'Espresso quotes Habermas' confession that he is is
"enchanted by the seriousness and consistency" of the theology of St.
Thomas Aquinas, "the opposite of the feeble thinking that pervades
current theology".
Habermas says: "Thomas represents a spiritual figure who was able to
prove his authenticity with his own resources. That contemporary
religious leadership lacks an equally solid terrain seems to me an
incontrovertible truth. In the general level;ing of society by the
media everything seems to lose seriousness, even institutionalised
Christianity. But theology would lose its identity if it sought to
uncouple itself from the dogmatic nucleus of religion, and thus from
the religious language in which the community's practices of prayer,
confession, and faith are made concrete."
On relations with other civilisations, Habermas maintains that
"recognising our Judaeo-Christian roots more clearly not only does not
impair intercultural understanding, it is what makes it possible."
Magister said that last month, Cardinal Ratzinger "summoned to the
field as his ally 'the philosopher considered in the world of the
German language as the purest secularist'". He said Ratzinger alluded
to Habermas during a public discussion in Rome with another secularist
intellectual, Ernesto Galli Della Loggia, a professor at the university
of Perugia.
SOURCE
The Church Is Under Siege. But Habermas, the Atheist, Is Coming to its
Defense (L'espresso/www.chiesa 22/11/04)
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| User: "J Antero" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
05 Oct 2006 06:05:50 PM |
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"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Democracy, human rights, human freedom, human knowledge, these things exist
in the West DESPITE christianity, not becasue of it. Only fools need that
expalined to them.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
05 Oct 2006 06:11:33 PM |
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J Antero wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Democracy, human rights, human freedom, human knowledge, these things exist
in the West DESPITE christianity, not becasue of it. Only fools need that
expalined to them.
Why is Jesus Christ, a simplistic philosopher, still getting so much
attention after 2000 years, when the world is growing off-scale high in
complexity?
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| User: "J Antero" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
05 Oct 2006 06:44:19 PM |
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<donstockbauer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160089893.785049.226670@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
J Antero wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Democracy, human rights, human freedom, human knowledge, these things
exist
in the West DESPITE christianity, not becasue of it. Only fools need that
expalined to them.
Why is Jesus Christ, a simplistic philosopher, still getting so much
attention after 2000 years, when the world is growing off-scale high in
complexity?
Because Constantine won at the Milvian bridge.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
08 Oct 2006 11:53:30 AM |
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J Antero wrote:
<donstockbauer@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160089893.785049.226670@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
J Antero wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote in message
news:1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Democracy, human rights, human freedom, human knowledge, these things
exist
in the West DESPITE christianity, not becasue of it. Only fools need that
expalined to them.
Why is Jesus Christ, a simplistic philosopher, still getting so much
attention after 2000 years, when the world is growing off-scale high in
complexity?
Because Constantine won at the Milvian bridge.
Indeed it is Constantine who brings order.
"To control the opposition one must lead it."
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
05 Oct 2006 06:34:00 PM |
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wrote:
Why is Jesus Christ, a simplistic philosopher, still getting so much
attention after 2000 years, when the world is growing off-scale high in
complexity?
You've answered your own question. There will always be a set of
people who fear change and who refuse to accept there are things they
don't understand about today's world. These people desperately cling to
what they know and what makes them feel both secure. And Christianity
does that in two ways, first by giving an eternal daddy to look out for
them and secondly by letting them feel they have all the answers to the
all the most important questions in the world.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 04:37:00 AM |
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In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Jürgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
09 Oct 2006 03:07:51 AM |
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*nemo* wrote:
In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Ju:rgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
since when is Roman Catholicism `sola scriptura` Christianity ...?
suffice it to say you are running in circles with these false
dialectics "theism-atheism" "religion-secularism"
nonsense.
all cultures begin in race and cult.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
10 Oct 2006 07:36:49 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
*nemo* wrote:
In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Ju:rgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
since when is Roman Catholicism `sola scriptura` Christianity ...?
suffice it to say you are running in circles
Crazy atheists do that a lot; haven't you noticed? They are as a rules
nuttier than crazy theists because they actually believe that they have
Reason on their side.
with these false
dialectics "theism-atheism" "religion-secularism"
nonsense.
all cultures begin in race and cult.
.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
11 Oct 2006 04:25:08 AM |
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Tuco Ramirez wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
*nemo* wrote:
In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Ju:rgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
since when is Roman Catholicism `sola scriptura` Christianity ...?
suffice it to say you are running in circles
Crazy atheists do that a lot; haven't you noticed? They are as a rules
nuttier than crazy theists because they actually believe that they have
Reason on their side.
i am an atheist and indeed i do find the arrogance of some atheists
very silly.
give them berets and horn-rimmed eyeglasses and they are simply Jean
Paul Sartre "THE Existentialist" LOL
with these false
dialectics "theism-atheism" "religion-secularism"
nonsense.
all cultures begin in race and cult.
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| User: "Voracious" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience,Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
11 Oct 2006 07:16:21 PM |
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Tuco Ramirez wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
*nemo* wrote:
In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Ju:rgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
since when is Roman Catholicism `sola scriptura` Christianity ...?
suffice it to say you are running in circles
Crazy atheists do that a lot; haven't you noticed? They are as a rules
nuttier than crazy theists because they actually believe that they have
Reason on their side.
Whereas Christians know they don't!
Voracious
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
12 Oct 2006 04:00:48 PM |
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Voracious wrote:
Tuco Ramirez wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
*nemo* wrote:
In article <1160087404.194808.45900@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@myway.com> wrote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has enlisted in his defence of Christianity
against secular Europe, the German philosopher Ju:rgen Habermas, who
said in an essay published this month that "Christianity, and nothing
else, is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights,
and democracy, the benchmarks of Western civilisation".
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place. It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
since when is Roman Catholicism `sola scriptura` Christianity ...?
suffice it to say you are running in circles
Crazy atheists do that a lot; haven't you noticed? They are as a rules
nuttier than crazy theists because they actually believe that they have
Reason on their side.
Whereas Christians know they don't!
They claim they don't.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 04:45:38 AM |
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*nemo* wrote:
Which would be another lie. Christianity is a religion based on slavery,
custom-made for slaves in order to keep slaves in their place.
Indeed religion goes right to the very root of socialism.
But in reality its NOT religion that is the correct place to focus
one's contempt, the correct focus ought be on what causes the scourge
of religion and socialism and cummunism and fascism.
And that cause IS irrationalism, the failure of man, the human
individual to identify and reject contradictions in his ideas, between
his ideas and realoty, the rejection of reason.
It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
I have no idea of your political philosophy, however if it is ANYTHING
but libertarian in principle, then you have no business taking the *****
out of any mystic.
Michael Gordge
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 08:26:16 PM |
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In article <1160127938.349580.316930@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
It has
nothing to do with liberty, human rights, or democracy. If you were to
actually in fact read the Bible, you'd know this.
I have no idea of your political philosophy, however if it is ANYTHING
but libertarian in principle, then you have no business taking the *****
out of any mystic.
So libertarianism is the only viable philosophy that would make stating
the truth in this manner OK? I won't ask how you figure that. I learned
a while back that asking Libertarians any questions of substance is a
sure way to start on the road to madness.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 09:58:56 PM |
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*nemo* wrote:
So libertarianism is the only viable philosophy that would make stating
the truth in this manner OK?
I support Libertarian politics because is the closest political
principle there is to the concept of individual human liberty, which IS
the natural state of man.
Tax is theft, not according to any feeling but according to
non-contradiction (reality) of the meaning of theft. Tax is the
life-blood of parasitical leftist socialism, without tax letist
politics is totally impotent. Tax is ONLY excused by mobocracy.
Theft is the act of stealing, to steal means to take without permission
or consent of knowledge of the owner. You cant NOT give anyone's
consent but your own, if you claim you give your consent to be taxed,
then why do YOU need to be threatened with jail and ultimately death
(the rule of law) to pay it?
I won't ask how you figure that. I learned
a while back that asking Libertarians any questions of substance is a
sure way to start on the road to madness.
But of course you refuse to accept that your leftist / mystical mindset
is the problem.
Debate your ideas for a change, but I wont hold my breath.
Michael Gordge
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:16:10 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 19:58:56 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160189936.592022.51810@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
*nemo* wrote:
So libertarianism is the only viable philosophy that would make stating
the truth in this manner OK?
I support Libertarian politics because is the closest political
principle there is to the concept of individual human liberty, which IS
the natural state of man.
Tax is theft, not according to any feeling but according to
non-contradiction (reality) of the meaning of theft. Tax is the
life-blood of parasitical leftist socialism, without tax letist
politics is totally impotent. Tax is ONLY excused by mobocracy.
How do you propose to protect property if you have no taxes? Armed bands
of thugs?
Theft is the act of stealing, to steal means to take without permission
or consent of knowledge of the owner. You cant NOT give anyone's
consent but your own, if you claim you give your consent to be taxed,
then why do YOU need to be threatened with jail and ultimately death
(the rule of law) to pay it?
I won't ask how you figure that. I learned
a while back that asking Libertarians any questions of substance is a
sure way to start on the road to madness.
But of course you refuse to accept that your leftist / mystical mindset
is the problem.
Debate your ideas for a change, but I wont hold my breath.
Michael Gordge
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:22:26 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
How do you propose to protect property if you have no taxes?
How does tax protect your property?
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| User: "gibbs" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:37:42 PM |
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<mikegordge@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1160191346.473579.246850@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
How does tax protect your property?
It makes you so angry that you'll rip off the head of anyone who tries to
steal your property.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:26:46 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 20:22:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160191346.473579.246850@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
How do you propose to protect property if you have no taxes?
How does tax protect your property?
How do you pay for the police and justice system?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:35:26 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
On 6 Oct 2006 20:22:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160191346.473579.246850@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
How do you propose to protect property if you have no taxes?
How does tax protect your property?
How do you pay for the police and justice system?
So you think stealing can be justified to stop stop stealing?
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:37:49 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 20:35:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160192126.371577.80370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 6 Oct 2006 20:22:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160191346.473579.246850@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
How do you propose to protect property if you have no taxes?
How does tax protect your property?
How do you pay for the police and justice system?
So you think stealing can be justified to stop stop stealing?
Taxes are not stealing. Your assertion does not a fact make.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:43:43 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
Tax IS theft.
Theft IS the act of stealing.
To steal means, to take without permission knowledge or consent of the
owner.
If YOU claim you pay tax voluntarially then WHY do YOU need a law to
threaten YOU with jail, ultimately death (The Rule o Law) for not
paying it?
Your assertion does not a fact make.
Reality is NOT an assertion.
Michael Gordge
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| User: "MRB" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience,Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
12 Oct 2006 11:42:52 AM |
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schreef:
Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
There are situations where this is not true but that is nit-picking.
Tax IS theft.
You have not shown it to be.
Theft IS the act of stealing.
To steal means, to take without permission knowledge or consent of the
owner.
Without permission or consent? Wow. Anyway I don't think knowledge is
anywhere involved if you tell me you are going to take my car and I
don't consent it would still be theft (nit-picking again)
If YOU claim you pay tax voluntarially then WHY do YOU need a law to
threaten YOU with jail,
Most of us do not need such laws because we understand that to make our
society work there needs to be money available for the common good.
These laws are needed for you who wants to use our roads, libraries and
what-have-you without paying for it. That is theft.
Taxes are our admission price for the society we choose to live in. If
you are unhappy find one that doesn't tax. They exist but you won't find
their roads very accessible or their healthcare very mentionable.
Still, to each his own. Just don't go around using public utilities
while crying you don't wish to pay for them.
ultimately death (The Rule o Law) for not
paying it?
I might be wrong of course but I have never heard of a country where
tax-evasion merrited the death penalty. Care to elaborate?
Your assertion does not a fact make.
Reality is NOT an assertion.
I'd guess reality isn't your strong suit either.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 10:48:14 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 20:43:43 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160192623.763278.115840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
What does that have to do with anything?
Tax IS theft.
No, it is not.
Theft IS the act of stealing.
That one you got right.
To steal means, to take without permission knowledge or consent of the
owner.
Not always. Repo men do that and they aren't stealing.
If YOU claim you pay tax voluntarially then WHY do YOU need a law to
threaten YOU with jail, ultimately death (The Rule o Law) for not
paying it?
What's the deal with voluntary?
Your assertion does not a fact make.
Reality is NOT an assertion.
Then why don't you stick with it.
Rand hated people.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:08:04 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
On 6 Oct 2006 20:43:43 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160192623.763278.115840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
What does that have to do with anything?
Tax IS theft.
No, it is not.
Theft IS the act of stealing.
That one you got right.
To steal means, to take without permission knowledge or consent of the
owner.
Not always. Repo men do that and they aren't stealing.
What do you think "consent of the owner" mean?
Given your political inclinations, maybe you think that Credit is
"theft" and therefore loans shouldn't be paid back and the borrower
"owns" the property?
Auto loans are Secured Loans, the borrower doesn't own ***** until it's
paid off. Have you ever bought a car on credit and paid it off? That
little paper that you got in the mail not long after is called a Title,
and you don't own the car until it is transferred to you.
If YOU claim you pay tax voluntarially then WHY do YOU need a law to
threaten YOU with jail, ultimately death (The Rule o Law) for not
paying it?
What's the deal with voluntary?
Your assertion does not a fact make.
Reality is NOT an assertion.
Then why don't you stick with it.
Rand hated people.
So did Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:01:07 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
On 6 Oct 2006 20:43:43 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160192623.763278.115840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
What does that have to do with anything?
EVERYTHING, YOUR claim is that tax is not theft, theft is the act of
stealing, to steal means to take without consent knowledge or
permission of the owner, you can NOT give my consent.
You are claiming that it is okay to steal off me to protect you from
being stollen from, that doesn't make sense.
Not always. Repo men do that and they aren't stealing.
The repo man IS returning stollen propety to its rightful owner.
What's the deal with voluntary?
Thats the concept which HAS to be ignored for leftist politics to work.
Rand hated people.
What does she have to do with YOU wanting to steal to protect YOU from
being stollen from?
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:04:51 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 21:01:07 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160193667.507701.132900@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 6 Oct 2006 20:43:43 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160192623.763278.115840@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
Taxes are not stealing.
You can NOT give anyone's consent but YOUR own.
What does that have to do with anything?
EVERYTHING, YOUR claim is that tax is not theft, theft is the act of
stealing, to steal means to take without consent knowledge or
permission of the owner, you can NOT give my consent.
If you don't want to live in a country with a government, move to
Somalia.
You are claiming that it is okay to steal off me to protect you from
being stollen from, that doesn't make sense.
No, the silly claim that 'taxation is theft' is what doesn't make sense.
Once anyone starts to argue as if they believe it, they have become
irrelevent.
Not always. Repo men do that and they aren't stealing.
The repo man IS returning stollen propety to its rightful owner.
It wasn't stolen. Please, learn something.
What's the deal with voluntary?
Thats the concept which HAS to be ignored for leftist politics to work.
There are no societies that are completely voluntary.
Rand hated people.
What does she have to do with YOU wanting to steal to protect YOU from
being stollen from?
It's her foolish followers who say silly things like 'taxation is
theft'.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:12:58 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
If you don't want to live in a country with a government, move to
Somalia.
You are also free to leave, obviously being a parasite suits you.
No, the silly claim that 'taxation is theft' is what doesn't make sense.
Oh okay, let me put it like this.
Theft is the act of stealing, to steal means to take without consent of
knowledge of the owner, you do NOT have my consent and you can not give
it.
If tax is not theft then WHY is there a need of a threat of jail for
not payin it?
Once anyone starts to argue as if they believe it, they have become
irrelevent.
What?
It wasn't stolen. Please, learn something.
When the promised payments are not made, it becomes theft, try as hard
as you like you cant invent reality.
There are no societies that are completely voluntary.
Wow.
It's her foolish followers who say silly things like 'taxation is
theft'.
Oh so I am foolish for saying that stealing is wrong?
So what does that make someone who steals?
Michael Gordge
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:16:50 PM |
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On 6 Oct 2006 21:12:58 -0700, in alt.atheism
mikegordge@xtra.co.nz wrote in
<1160194377.983445.61650@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
If you don't want to live in a country with a government, move to
Somalia.
You are also free to leave, obviously being a parasite suits you.
No, the silly claim that 'taxation is theft' is what doesn't make sense.
Oh okay, let me put it like this.
Theft is the act of stealing, to steal means to take without consent of
knowledge of the owner, you do NOT have my consent and you can not give
it.
If tax is not theft then WHY is there a need of a threat of jail for
not payin it?
Once anyone starts to argue as if they believe it, they have become
irrelevent.
What?
It wasn't stolen. Please, learn something.
When the promised payments are not made, it becomes theft, try as hard
as you like you cant invent reality.
There are no societies that are completely voluntary.
Wow.
It's her foolish followers who say silly things like 'taxation is
theft'.
Oh so I am foolish for saying that stealing is wrong?
You are foolish for advocating the destruction of society. Taxes are
only a small, but necessary part of it.
So what does that make someone who steals?
Michael Gordge
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:42:12 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
You are foolish
So you cant defend your position without attacking a dead person Rand
and me, just remember ewe fucking useless leftist fucking retarded
parasite, YOU started the personal attacks.
What does me being foolish have to do with you being a fucking
parasitical masochist socialist? NO wonder you call yourself free lunch
what a scumbag.
.........Taxes are
only a small, but necessary part of it.
In 1940 the average man worked for the state until early 5th February,
today its the 21st August.
Said another way
In 1940 each day the average man went to work, every single cent he
earned up until 9am went to nanny fucking state parasites, today every
single cent he earns up until 2.20pm goes to the parasites of nanny
fucking state in one form of tax or another.
Obviously it is you who has the problem coming to terms with reality.
Michael Gordge
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Christianity Is The Ultimate Foundation Of Liberty, Conscience, Human Rights And Democracy, Says Top German Atheist Philosopher |
06 Oct 2006 11:48:20 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
You are foolish for advocating the destruction of society.
Oh I see so you cant defend your position without attacking a dead
person or me, remember this you parasitical leftist commie *****, it was
YOU who started the personal attacks.
Taxes are
only a small,
In 1940 the average man worked each year until the 5th of February for
your fucking parasitical mates in government. Today he works until the
21st August.
Said another way, in 1940 the average man was able to keep all that he
earned after 9.20am, today its 2.30pm
You didn't answer, if I am foolish for saying stealing is wrong, what
does that make someone who steals?
A hero according to you.
I note you didn't comment on my idea that you were also free to *****
off to North Korea or where-ever freedom is not, parasitism in a
country becoming less free by the day obviously suits you, ***** leftist
wanker.
Michael Gordge
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