Religions > Atheism > Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
22 Feb 2006 08:09:49 AM |
| Object: |
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
Encounter Books
Review by Ryan McMaken
Those things which are God's are not subject to the imperial power.
~ Ambrose of Milan
Any liberal arts student knows the story: Christianity, an enemy of
science, a catalyst of war, and an enslaver of men has brought mankind
nothing but misery since it rose to prominence in the Roman empire and
destroyed that gentle and enlightened civilization. At least, this is
the story you will encounter in virtually every literature, history, or
political science course that one might endure. Both inside and outside
the academy, however, most of the clich=E9s about the inhumanity of
Christianity generally amount to little more than vague references to
various events that the New York Times has decided are unforgivable
sins committed by Christians throughout history.
With the publication of Christianity on Trial, authors Vincent Carroll
and David Shiflett attempt to shed some light on the historical record.
The book, a collection of chapters each dealing with Christianity's
record on specific issues from slavery to science to the Third Reich is
a kind of historical Christian apologetic. Unlike an ordinary
apologetic, the book makes no attempts to engage theological questions
or to prove the veracity of the Christian religion. It is instead an
examination of historical events involving ordinary Christians, the
Catholic Church as an organization and, after the Reformation, the
Protestant churches as well. For Carroll and Shiflett, the prevailing
belief among smug non-Christians, a belief that Western history is the
history of brave "free-thinkers" working against the tyranny of
Christianity, is little more than self-satisfaction based on historical
ignorance.
The book begins by juxtaposing pre-Christian Roman civilization with
Christian civilization. The story of the Roman Empire at the time of
the birth of Christ is one of a society with no concept of the human
being as a sovereign individual with claims against state and society.
It is a time of disposable children, disposable women, and widespread
human slavery. For example, in the empire of the 1st century, it was
not unusual for a pregnant woman to receive a note from her husband
instructing her that when she gave birth: "if it is a boy keep it, if a
girl discard it." "Discarding" a baby usually consisted of leaving it
on the nearest dungheap. The baby would usually die of exposure within
a few hours, or possibly be eaten by wolves. If the baby was fortunate
it would be found by a member of one of the local Christian communities
that often kept an eye on places where babies were dumped in order to
adopt them. The discarded babies were usually girls, but deformed male
babies could suffer the same fate, and the practice was so widespread
that in many parts of the empire, men outnumbered women by 30 percent
or more.
Once grown, pagan women could rarely expect better treatment than they
had been afforded when they had been infants. Compared to Christian
women, pagan women married younger, had less choice in whom they
married, and were expected to endure frequent adultery from their
spouses since Saint Paul's admonition to men to remain faithful was
hardly the prevailing attitude among pagan men. The Christian ideal
that men and women must be held to identical systems of ethics and were
equals in the eyes of God was, to say the least, a novelty in pagan
Rome. Ironically, according to the authors, Saint Paul, the man
villainized by non-Christians as the leading misogynist of the bible
was quite possibly the most prominent proponent of "sexual equality" in
the Empire.
Carroll and Shiflett go on to describe a myriad of other revolutions
that the Christians brought to the pagan world. The restriction of
sexual behavior to marriage was certainly an affront to Roman noblemen
who kept young boys imprisoned in their private chambers for their
sexual pleasure, and the idea that the poor, the helpless, and the weak
should be treated with kindness and mercy struck many pagans as
ridiculous considering their pagan ideals of strength, heroism, and
conquest. The medieval knight's oath to protect orphans and widows
would have struck a Roman centurion as pointless and absurd.
This first chapter sets the tone for the rest of the book which
presents Christians and their leaders as often the brake against war,
slavery, the domination of the weak by the strong, and the excesses of
the State in general.
As slavery returned to the Christian world through the New World, it
was Jesuits and Popes in the Spanish world and Methodists and Quakers
in the British world that fought against slavery and eventually forced
its end. Drawing upon Paul's directive to slaveowners that they "do
not threaten [the slaves], since you know that he who is both their
Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."
The Methodist John Wesley and his followers concluded that if slaves
are equal to their masters in heaven, why must things be different on
earth? Indeed, the Catholic Church came to the same conclusion and
condemned slavery repeatedly in 1462, 1741, 1815, and 1839.
Unfortunately, all too often, slave traders paid little attention. For
Carroll and Shiflett, the story of the abolition of slavery is a
veritable who's who list of Protestant and Catholic leaders.
Ironically, it was the non-Christian philosophers like David Hume and
Thomas Jefferson who spent their time constructing pseudo-scientific
justifications for slavery. While David Hume was comparing slaves to
parrots, Christians like the Quaker activist George Fox would have none
of it: "Christ died for all, for the Taiwanese, and for the blacks, as
for you that are called whites."
But what of the Christian record on science? Every pundit in America
knows that Christianity has crippled science and supported ignorance
among the Western world. One word is all that need be said: Galileo!
Carroll and Shiflett dispose of this stereotype with ease. After all,
it is not just a coincidence that the most technologically advanced
civilization on earth emerged not from the Far East or from the
Americas, but from Christian Europe. Unlike the centralized
bureaucracies of China that stymied novelty and innovation, heavily
decentralized Europe did not contain a bureaucratic class powerful
enough to stop innovation, and thus new technologies were introduced,
spread about Europe and contributed to the birth of a technological
society. The Christian monasteries maintained libraries, copied ancient
manuscripts, employed astronomers and preserved the knowledge
accumulated through the centuries of western civilization. The
Franciscan monk Roger Bacon wrote in the eleventh century that "it is
the intention of [natural] philosophy to work out the natures and
philosophies of things." He encouraged his fellow scientists to adopt
empirical methods using controlled experiments and observation. These
experiments would come to be carried out in the Christian universities,
the main centers of science and philosophy in Europe. Christians were
the finest astronomers in the world with the most accurate calendars
and the most accurate instruments. Carroll and Shiflett give one of the
best short explanations of the Galileo affair available today and they
point out that Galileo, that patron saint of modern Christian bashers
was never disciplined for any crime against theology, but was censured
for disobedience to the Catholic authorities. No official proclamation
was made drawing conclusions on his observations from a theological
perspective, and even if such a proclamation had been made, it would
not have mattered since Christian philosophers, monks, and Catholic
Cardinals went right on supporting and performing scientific
experiments using the knowledge of Galileo, Copernicus, and countless
other Christian scientists.
Of course, no book entitled Christianity on Trial would be complete
without a discussion of the role of Christianity in the rise of the
Third Reich. Naturally, Carroll and Shiflett illustrate that if
Christian organizations had any role in the rise of Nazism, it was one
of resistance. The most popular myth of Christians and the Third Reich
batted around today is the story of Pope Pius XII as Nazi collaborator.
How this myth got started is interesting since Pius was almost
universally accepted as an anti-Nazi hero following the war. Pius had
given Jews shelter inside the walls of the Vatican and had even taken
part in a plot to depose Hitler in 1939. This approving attitude toward
Pope Pius changed in 1960 with the play The Deputy by Rolf Hochhuth.
Since then, the image of Pope as Nazi collaborator has never been
allowed to die thanks to the publication of books like 1999's
Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. Regardless of the wild
accusations, Pius worked closely with bishops like the vehemently
anti-Nazi Cardinal Konrad von Preysing and often ordered his bishops to
intercede with secular leaders to bring to an end some of the more
brutal policies being carried out by Nazis and Communists alike.
Protestant Christians were also hard at work in pre-war Germany trying
to prevent Hitler's de-Christianization of the German people. Hitler,
an occultist and a supporter of a neo-pagan religion based on the idea
of a sacred German nation of conquering heroes made great pains to
drain Christianity from German culture and took numerous steps like
requiring the use of the word "Yuletide" in place of "Christmas" and
prohibiting any public displays of Christian ceremonial activities. It
was in response to this subjugation of the Christian churches to the
Nazi State that Martin Niemoller formed the "Confessing Church" which
would become the primary Protestant resistance to Hitler's regime. In
1934, Niemoller took a delegation to see Hitler about his attempts to
take over the churches. Niemoller personally admonished Hitler and
declared, "you told us that you would take care of the German people.
But as Christians and men of the church, we too have a responsibility
to the German people, laid upon us by God. Neither you nor anyone else
can take that away from us." Not surprisingly, Niemoller was later
tried on trumped up charges and spent the duration of the war in Dachau
where he was later joined by thousands of fellow ministers, monks,
nuns, and priests, many of whom would not survive.
For the last twenty centuries, Christians have been ubiquitous in
Western history, and Carroll and Shiflett bring the controversies over
slavery, science, the role of government, the Third Reich and many
other subjects to the reader in an accessible and engaging work
intended for all audiences. The book is most certainly about
Christians, but is not necessarily intended just for Christians. In
other words, it is a genuine attempt to set the historical record
straight and is not simply a feel-good book for Christians. The book
also stays out of interdenominational conflicts and makes no attempts
to benefit Protestants at the expense of Catholics or the other way
around. Credit is simply given where credit is due. Above all, it seems
that the authors want their readers to understand that human history is
a complex thing, and the attempt to oversimplify matters is often the
cause of much anti-Christian bigotry since it is often easier to simply
repeat widely accepted mantras about the sins of Christians rather than
to engage in serious historical inquiry. Nevertheless, these mantras
are repeated time and time again in newspapers, classrooms, and coffee
houses.
Usually at this point in a book review, it would be apropos to sum up
the arguments made by the authors and attest to their veracity, or lack
thereof. I have had to conclude, however, that this book does not
really offer any theory, per se. This is not necessarily a problem
since the criticisms of Christianity that the authors are addressing
contain no theory either but are simply tired clich=E9s that have been
repeated until people believed them. Carroll and Shiflett do not claim
to be historians, but have contented themselves with condensing many
interesting and valuable bits of information on the history of
Christianity into a single volume. Obviously, the authors have
concluded that Christians receive a bum rap based on anti-Christian
misinformation, but they leave most of the theory up the historians
whom they aggressively quote in this book while presenting manageable
breakdowns of complex subjects. Carroll and Shiflett's work is a
recognition of the fact that as long as Christians are held up as the
villains of the past, they will continue to be regarded as the villains
of the present. This is an astute observation, and one that George
Orwell endorsed when he observed that those who control the present
control the past, and that those who control the past control the
future.
September 14, 2002
Ryan McMaken is editor of the Western Mercury.
.
|
|
| User: "Lörd Phÿltêr" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 08:25:53 AM |
|
|
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140617389.591489.217400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
ROTFLMAOPMP!!! You motherfuckers INVENTED bigotry!!!!
--
Lörd Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 08:32:27 AM |
|
|
L=F6rd Ph=FFlt=EAr wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140617389.591489.217400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
ROTFLMAOPMP!!! You motherfuckers INVENTED bigotry!!!!
No they didn't. The Jews certainly had it before the days of Jesus. I
suppose being "God's chosen people" planted ideas of superiority in
their little heads.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lörd Phÿltêr" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 08:39:09 AM |
|
|
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140618747.814671.306700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Lörd Phÿltêr wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140617389.591489.217400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
ROTFLMAOPMP!!! You motherfuckers INVENTED bigotry!!!!
No they didn't. The Jews certainly had it before the days of Jesus. I
suppose being "God's chosen people" planted ideas of superiority in
their little heads.
Ummmm, I meant "theism"...
--
Lörd Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 09:54:02 AM |
|
|
L=F6rd Ph=FFlt=EAr wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140618747.814671.306700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
L=F6rd Ph=FFlt=EAr wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> had me ROTFL with:
news:1140617389.591489.217400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
ROTFLMAOPMP!!! You motherfuckers INVENTED bigotry!!!!
No they didn't. The Jews certainly had it before the days of Jesus. I
suppose being "God's chosen people" planted ideas of superiority in
their little heads.
=20
=20
=20
Ummmm, I meant "theism"...
Oh. Right.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 08:47:16 AM |
|
|
In <1140617389.591489.217400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Sound of
Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
The book begins by juxtaposing pre-Christian Roman civilization with
Christian civilization. The story of the Roman Empire at the time of the
birth of Christ is one of a society with no concept of the human being as
a sovereign individual with claims against state and society. It is a time
of disposable children, disposable women, and widespread human slavery.
Which is where Christianity picked up those attitudes...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Churches are closing...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M611110AC
Mardi Gras is rolling...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/
Now, what was this about god's judgement?
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 04:11:51 PM |
|
|
On 22 Feb 2006 06:09:49 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
Any liberal arts student knows the story: Christianity, an enemy of
science, a catalyst of war, and an enslaver of men has brought mankind
nothing but misery since it rose to prominence in the Roman empire and
destroyed that gentle and enlightened civilization. At least, this is
the story you will encounter in virtually every literature, history, or
political science course that one might endure.
Obviously the author has never taken a single one.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 04:24:28 PM |
|
|
He has taken something, however.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 04:51:14 PM |
|
|
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
Encounter Books
Review by Ryan McMaken
Those things which are God's are not subject to the imperial power.
~ Ambrose of Milan
Any liberal arts student knows the story: Christianity, an enemy of
science, a catalyst of war, and an enslaver of men has brought mankind
nothing but misery since it rose to prominence in the Roman empire and
destroyed that gentle and enlightened civilization. At least, this is
the story you will encounter in virtually every literature, history, or
political science course that one might endure. Both inside and outside
the academy, however, most of the clich=E9s about the inhumanity of
Christianity generally amount to little more than vague references to
various events that the New York Times has decided are unforgivable
sins committed by Christians throughout history.
With the publication of Christianity on Trial, authors Vincent Carroll
and David Shiflett attempt to shed some light on the historical record.
The book, a collection of chapters each dealing with Christianity's
record on specific issues from slavery to science to the Third Reich is
a kind of historical Christian apologetic. Unlike an ordinary
apologetic, the book makes no attempts to engage theological questions
or to prove the veracity of the Christian religion. It is instead an
examination of historical events involving ordinary Christians, the
Catholic Church as an organization and, after the Reformation, the
Protestant churches as well. For Carroll and Shiflett, the prevailing
belief among smug non-Christians, a belief that Western history is the
history of brave "free-thinkers" working against the tyranny of
Christianity, is little more than self-satisfaction based on historical
ignorance.
The book begins by juxtaposing pre-Christian Roman civilization with
Christian civilization. The story of the Roman Empire at the time of
the birth of Christ is one of a society with no concept of the human
being as a sovereign individual with claims against state and society.
It is a time of disposable children, disposable women, and widespread
human slavery. For example, in the empire of the 1st century, it was
not unusual for a pregnant woman to receive a note from her husband
instructing her that when she gave birth: "if it is a boy keep it, if a
girl discard it." "Discarding" a baby usually consisted of leaving it
on the nearest dungheap. The baby would usually die of exposure within
a few hours, or possibly be eaten by wolves. If the baby was fortunate
it would be found by a member of one of the local Christian communities
that often kept an eye on places where babies were dumped in order to
adopt them. The discarded babies were usually girls, but deformed male
babies could suffer the same fate, and the practice was so widespread
that in many parts of the empire, men outnumbered women by 30 percent
or more.
Once grown, pagan women could rarely expect better treatment than they
had been afforded when they had been infants. Compared to Christian
women, pagan women married younger, had less choice in whom they
married, and were expected to endure frequent adultery from their
spouses since Saint Paul's admonition to men to remain faithful was
hardly the prevailing attitude among pagan men. The Christian ideal
that men and women must be held to identical systems of ethics and were
equals in the eyes of God was, to say the least, a novelty in pagan
Rome. Ironically, according to the authors, Saint Paul, the man
villainized by non-Christians as the leading misogynist of the bible
was quite possibly the most prominent proponent of "sexual equality" in
the Empire.
Carroll and Shiflett go on to describe a myriad of other revolutions
that the Christians brought to the pagan world. The restriction of
sexual behavior to marriage was certainly an affront to Roman noblemen
who kept young boys imprisoned in their private chambers for their
sexual pleasure, and the idea that the poor, the helpless, and the weak
should be treated with kindness and mercy struck many pagans as
ridiculous considering their pagan ideals of strength, heroism, and
conquest. The medieval knight's oath to protect orphans and widows
would have struck a Roman centurion as pointless and absurd.
This first chapter sets the tone for the rest of the book which
presents Christians and their leaders as often the brake against war,
slavery, the domination of the weak by the strong, and the excesses of
the State in general.
As slavery returned to the Christian world through the New World, it
was Jesuits and Popes in the Spanish world and Methodists and Quakers
in the British world that fought against slavery and eventually forced
its end. Drawing upon Paul's directive to slaveowners that they "do
not threaten [the slaves], since you know that he who is both their
Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."
The Methodist John Wesley and his followers concluded that if slaves
are equal to their masters in heaven, why must things be different on
earth? Indeed, the Catholic Church came to the same conclusion and
condemned slavery repeatedly in 1462, 1741, 1815, and 1839.
Unfortunately, all too often, slave traders paid little attention. For
Carroll and Shiflett, the story of the abolition of slavery is a
veritable who's who list of Protestant and Catholic leaders.
Ironically, it was the non-Christian philosophers like David Hume and
Thomas Jefferson who spent their time constructing pseudo-scientific
justifications for slavery. While David Hume was comparing slaves to
parrots, Christians like the Quaker activist George Fox would have none
of it: "Christ died for all, for the Taiwanese, and for the blacks, as
for you that are called whites."
But what of the Christian record on science? Every pundit in America
knows that Christianity has crippled science and supported ignorance
among the Western world. One word is all that need be said: Galileo!
Carroll and Shiflett dispose of this stereotype with ease. After all,
it is not just a coincidence that the most technologically advanced
civilization on earth emerged not from the Far East or from the
Americas, but from Christian Europe. Unlike the centralized
bureaucracies of China that stymied novelty and innovation, heavily
decentralized Europe did not contain a bureaucratic class powerful
enough to stop innovation, and thus new technologies were introduced,
spread about Europe and contributed to the birth of a technological
society. The Christian monasteries maintained libraries, copied ancient
manuscripts, employed astronomers and preserved the knowledge
accumulated through the centuries of western civilization. The
Franciscan monk Roger Bacon wrote in the eleventh century that "it is
the intention of [natural] philosophy to work out the natures and
philosophies of things." He encouraged his fellow scientists to adopt
empirical methods using controlled experiments and observation. These
experiments would come to be carried out in the Christian universities,
the main centers of science and philosophy in Europe. Christians were
the finest astronomers in the world with the most accurate calendars
and the most accurate instruments. Carroll and Shiflett give one of the
best short explanations of the Galileo affair available today and they
point out that Galileo, that patron saint of modern Christian bashers
was never disciplined for any crime against theology, but was censured
for disobedience to the Catholic authorities. No official proclamation
was made drawing conclusions on his observations from a theological
perspective, and even if such a proclamation had been made, it would
not have mattered since Christian philosophers, monks, and Catholic
Cardinals went right on supporting and performing scientific
experiments using the knowledge of Galileo, Copernicus, and countless
other Christian scientists.
Of course, no book entitled Christianity on Trial would be complete
without a discussion of the role of Christianity in the rise of the
Third Reich. Naturally, Carroll and Shiflett illustrate that if
Christian organizations had any role in the rise of Nazism, it was one
of resistance. The most popular myth of Christians and the Third Reich
batted around today is the story of Pope Pius XII as Nazi collaborator.
How this myth got started is interesting since Pius was almost
universally accepted as an anti-Nazi hero following the war. Pius had
given Jews shelter inside the walls of the Vatican and had even taken
part in a plot to depose Hitler in 1939. This approving attitude toward
Pope Pius changed in 1960 with the play The Deputy by Rolf Hochhuth.
Since then, the image of Pope as Nazi collaborator has never been
allowed to die thanks to the publication of books like 1999's
Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. Regardless of the wild
accusations, Pius worked closely with bishops like the vehemently
anti-Nazi Cardinal Konrad von Preysing and often ordered his bishops to
intercede with secular leaders to bring to an end some of the more
brutal policies being carried out by Nazis and Communists alike.
Protestant Christians were also hard at work in pre-war Germany trying
to prevent Hitler's de-Christianization of the German people. Hitler,
an occultist and a supporter of a neo-pagan religion based on the idea
of a sacred German nation of conquering heroes made great pains to
drain Christianity from German culture and took numerous steps like
requiring the use of the word "Yuletide" in place of "Christmas" and
prohibiting any public displays of Christian ceremonial activities. It
was in response to this subjugation of the Christian churches to the
Nazi State that Martin Niemoller formed the "Confessing Church" which
would become the primary Protestant resistance to Hitler's regime. In
1934, Niemoller took a delegation to see Hitler about his attempts to
take over the churches. Niemoller personally admonished Hitler and
declared, "you told us that you would take care of the German people.
But as Christians and men of the church, we too have a responsibility
to the German people, laid upon us by God. Neither you nor anyone else
can take that away from us." Not surprisingly, Niemoller was later
tried on trumped up charges and spent the duration of the war in Dachau
where he was later joined by thousands of fellow ministers, monks,
nuns, and priests, many of whom would not survive.
For the last twenty centuries, Christians have been ubiquitous in
Western history, and Carroll and Shiflett bring the controversies over
slavery, science, the role of government, the Third Reich and many
other subjects to the reader in an accessible and engaging work
intended for all audiences. The book is most certainly about
Christians, but is not necessarily intended just for Christians. In
other words, it is a genuine attempt to set the historical record
straight and is not simply a feel-good book for Christians. The book
also stays out of interdenominational conflicts and makes no attempts
to benefit Protestants at the expense of Catholics or the other way
around. Credit is simply given where credit is due. Above all, it seems
that the authors want their readers to understand that human history is
a complex thing, and the attempt to oversimplify matters is often the
cause of much anti-Christian bigotry since it is often easier to simply
repeat widely accepted mantras about the sins of Christians rather than
to engage in serious historical inquiry. Nevertheless, these mantras
are repeated time and time again in newspapers, classrooms, and coffee
houses.
Usually at this point in a book review, it would be apropos to sum up
the arguments made by the authors and attest to their veracity, or lack
thereof. I have had to conclude, however, that this book does not
really offer any theory, per se. This is not necessarily a problem
since the criticisms of Christianity that the authors are addressing
contain no theory either but are simply tired clich=E9s that have been
repeated until people believed them. Carroll and Shiflett do not claim
to be historians, but have contented themselves with condensing many
interesting and valuable bits of information on the history of
Christianity into a single volume. Obviously, the authors have
concluded that Christians receive a bum rap based on anti-Christian
misinformation, but they leave most of the theory up the historians
whom they aggressively quote in this book while presenting manageable
breakdowns of complex subjects. Carroll and Shiflett's work is a
recognition of the fact that as long as Christians are held up as the
villains of the past, they will continue to be regarded as the villains
of the present. This is an astute observation, and one that George
Orwell endorsed when he observed that those who control the present
control the past, and that those who control the past control the
future.
September 14, 2002
=20
=20
Ryan McMaken is editor of the Western Mercury.
.
|
|
|
| User: "655321" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 06:16:52 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 02:06:44 AM |
|
|
655321 wrote:
omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture.
Sure they do, though I know how much Islam-fellaters like you enjoy
changing the subject.
And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification,
It's completely without justification though I'm sure you'll be very
understanding should some Muslim decide to use you as a one-way ticket
to virgin cooch.
even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
.
|
|
|
| User: "655321" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 06:39:53 PM |
|
|
wrote:
655321 wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture.
Sure they do, though I know how much Islam-fellaters like you enjoy
changing the subject.
This was a direct response. And you know it. And instead of responding
accordingly, you choose to continue to name-call and build your army of
straw men.
And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification,
It's completely without justification
No, it's not.
though I'm sure you'll be very
understanding should some Muslim decide to use you as a one-way ticket
to virgin cooch.
Add another straw soldier to the troops.
even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
No response to this, I see. Too reasonable for you? I apologize. I'll
try to fit your caricature better. Tomorrow. If I feel like it. Which
I probably won't.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
I guess not.
655321
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 08:56:02 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 02:04:25 AM |
|
|
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
.
|
|
|
| User: "655321" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 06:35:50 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
Your army of straw men is growing in strength... soon it might take
*two* slight breezes to knock it down, rather than just one.
655321
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ian Zech" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 07:36:26 PM |
|
|
"655321" <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote in message
news:GDNLf.39639$H71.5416@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
omarenoryt@aol.com wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
Your army of straw men is growing in strength... soon it might take *two*
slight breezes to knock it down, rather than just one.
655321
The French could not subdue the Vietnamese and neither did the Americans.
The Brits could not subdue the Iraquis and the Americans will not either.
Stawmen, bullshitters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
25 Feb 2006 11:30:17 AM |
|
|
Ian Zech wrote:
The French could not subdue the Vietnamese and neither did the Americans.
The Brits could not subdue the Iraquis and the Americans will not either.
Stawmen, bullshitters.
it's done !
where you been...
we've long since took over Iraq
shure, there is civil unrest...and much needed organization
but is a far cry from "un-subdued"
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 08:58:02 AM |
|
|
On 24 Feb 2006 00:04:25 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
LOL, whizzzzzzzz!!!!
Do you do any more dumb tricks?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 04:50:32 PM |
|
|
Kate wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 00:04:25 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
LOL, whizzzzzzzz!!!!
Do you do any more dumb tricks?
No, watching you demonstrate your utter cowardice was enough for me,
thanks :)
.
|
|
|
| User: "655321" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 07:39:34 PM |
|
|
In article <1140821431.999752.3580@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
Kate wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 00:04:25 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
LOL, whizzzzzzzz!!!!
Do you do any more dumb tricks?
No, watching you demonstrate your utter cowardice was enough for me,
thanks :)
Another charming non-sequitur. Thanks.
655321
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 07:41:01 PM |
|
|
On 24 Feb 2006 14:50:32 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 00:04:25 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
LOL, whizzzzzzzz!!!!
Do you do any more dumb tricks?
No, watching you demonstrate your utter cowardice was enough for me,
thanks :)
yeah, it's real cowardly to tell a moron he doesn't understand what
he's talking about.
(whizzzzzzz again)
This is getting boring - better up your trick level, or you will be
standing here in usenet whining some more and no one will listen.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ian Zech" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 08:11:43 PM |
|
|
"Kate " <cobalt@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:4417b504.500872000@news-west.newscene.com...
This is getting boring - better up your trick level, or you will be
standing here in usenet whining some more and no one will listen.
What is getting boring? Who are you to whin what usenet think?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
25 Feb 2006 12:52:02 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:11:43 -0500, "Ian Zech" <Get@education.com>
wrote:
"Kate " <cobalt@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:4417b504.500872000@news-west.newscene.com...
This is getting boring - better up your trick level, or you will be
standing here in usenet whining some more and no one will listen.
What is getting boring? Who are you to whin what usenet think?
Apparently you found it so boring you didn't bother to read the thread
so you had some idea what I was talking about.
See, I was right.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
27 Feb 2006 12:42:37 PM |
|
|
Kate wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 14:50:32 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 00:04:25 -0800, wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:16:52 GMT, 655321
<DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:
wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
Hello. "Leftist" here. Heart beating rather nicely and evenly, thank
you very much -- despite all the "bleeding." Sure, I agree that there
are large numbers of Muslims (though clearly not all, or even most)
stirring up all sorts of awful ***** for no particularly good reason,
acting without much foresight, causing a great deal of damage, and not
just a few deaths. Of course, given the history of civil wars, world
wars, acts of unilateral aggression, support for homicidal puppet
regimes, genocides and the like perpetrated by non-Muslims in the
not-too-distant past, it's not as if Muslims deserve any particular
special notice at this juncture. And, from this leftist's position, a
portion of anger *behind* the irrational behavior is not entirely
without justification, even as the acts *themselves* lack sense or
sensibility.
Gee, that was easy... and no change in the heart rate or blood flow.
Got another stereotype/myth to smack down?
655321
unfortunately, no doubt it went straight over his head. Which is why
smart (leftist) people ***** him off.
Yes, it's very "smart" to fall more in love with Islam with every bomb
that Muslims set off. Try making sense next time.
LOL, whizzzzzzzz!!!!
Do you do any more dumb tricks?
No, watching you demonstrate your utter cowardice was enough for me,
thanks :)
yeah, it's real cowardly to tell a moron he doesn't understand what
he's talking about.
Ouch, you just chickenshitted out again! At least you're on some kind
of roll! Continue panicking :)
(whizzzzzzz again)
This is getting boring - better up your trick level, or you will be
standing here in usenet whining some more and no one will listen.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Paul Erickson" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 12:03:55 AM |
|
|
On 22 Feb 2006 14:51:14 -0800, wrote:
Yeah, anti-Christianity bigotry is a-okay, but if you dare speak our
against the religion that's actually causing all the problems (hint:
rhymes with Pislam), leftists all over the world have simultaneous
heart attacks. They're adorable, aren't they?
I'm fine with spaking out against either one. Happy now?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
22 Feb 2006 08:51:06 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On 22 Feb 2006 06:09:49 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken66.html
Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry
Encounter Books
Review by Ryan McMaken
Why is this being cross-posted to Christian groups like the Baptist
group?
Who do you believe you will convince?
Kindly stop wasting my bandwidth, and post where people want to read
it.
This is the worst sort of SPAMM, full of innuendo, half-truth, and
outright lies.
One of the biggest lies of the last Millennium is the lie that the
Roman Catholic religion represents main-stream Christianity.
john w
Those things which are God's are not subject to the imperial power.
~ Ambrose of Milan
Any liberal arts student knows the story: Christianity, an enemy of
science, a catalyst of war, and an enslaver of men has brought mankind
nothing but misery since it rose to prominence in the Roman empire and
destroyed that gentle and enlightened civilization. At least, this is
the story you will encounter in virtually every literature, history, or
political science course that one might endure. Both inside and outside
the academy, however, most of the clichés about the inhumanity of
Christianity generally amount to little more than vague references to
various events that the New York Times has decided are unforgivable
sins committed by Christians throughout history.
With the publication of Christianity on Trial, authors Vincent Carroll
and David Shiflett attempt to shed some light on the historical record.
The book, a collection of chapters each dealing with Christianity's
record on specific issues from slavery to science to the Third Reich is
a kind of historical Christian apologetic. Unlike an ordinary
apologetic, the book makes no attempts to engage theological questions
or to prove the veracity of the Christian religion. It is instead an
examination of historical events involving ordinary Christians, the
Catholic Church as an organization and, after the Reformation, the
Protestant churches as well. For Carroll and Shiflett, the prevailing
belief among smug non-Christians, a belief that Western history is the
history of brave "free-thinkers" working against the tyranny of
Christianity, is little more than self-satisfaction based on historical
ignorance.
The book begins by juxtaposing pre-Christian Roman civilization with
Christian civilization. The story of the Roman Empire at the time of
the birth of Christ is one of a society with no concept of the human
being as a sovereign individual with claims against state and society.
It is a time of disposable children, disposable women, and widespread
human slavery. For example, in the empire of the 1st century, it was
not unusual for a pregnant woman to receive a note from her husband
instructing her that when she gave birth: "if it is a boy keep it, if a
girl discard it." "Discarding" a baby usually consisted of leaving it
on the nearest dungheap. The baby would usually die of exposure within
a few hours, or possibly be eaten by wolves. If the baby was fortunate
it would be found by a member of one of the local Christian communities
that often kept an eye on places where babies were dumped in order to
adopt them. The discarded babies were usually girls, but deformed male
babies could suffer the same fate, and the practice was so widespread
that in many parts of the empire, men outnumbered women by 30 percent
or more.
Once grown, pagan women could rarely expect better treatment than they
had been afforded when they had been infants. Compared to Christian
women, pagan women married younger, had less choice in whom they
married, and were expected to endure frequent adultery from their
spouses since Saint Paul's admonition to men to remain faithful was
hardly the prevailing attitude among pagan men. The Christian ideal
that men and women must be held to identical systems of ethics and were
equals in the eyes of God was, to say the least, a novelty in pagan
Rome. Ironically, according to the authors, Saint Paul, the man
villainized by non-Christians as the leading misogynist of the bible
was quite possibly the most prominent proponent of "sexual equality" in
the Empire.
Carroll and Shiflett go on to describe a myriad of other revolutions
that the Christians brought to the pagan world. The restriction of
sexual behavior to marriage was certainly an affront to Roman noblemen
who kept young boys imprisoned in their private chambers for their
sexual pleasure, and the idea that the poor, the helpless, and the weak
should be treated with kindness and mercy struck many pagans as
ridiculous considering their pagan ideals of strength, heroism, and
conquest. The medieval knight's oath to protect orphans and widows
would have struck a Roman centurion as pointless and absurd.
This first chapter sets the tone for the rest of the book which
presents Christians and their leaders as often the brake against war,
slavery, the domination of the weak by the strong, and the excesses of
the State in general.
As slavery returned to the Christian world through the New World, it
was Jesuits and Popes in the Spanish world and Methodists and Quakers
in the British world that fought against slavery and eventually forced
its end. Drawing upon Paul's directive to slaveowners that they "do
not threaten [the slaves], since you know that he who is both their
Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."
The Methodist John Wesley and his followers concluded that if slaves
are equal to their masters in heaven, why must things be different on
earth? Indeed, the Catholic Church came to the same conclusion and
condemned slavery repeatedly in 1462, 1741, 1815, and 1839.
Unfortunately, all too often, slave traders paid little attention. For
Carroll and Shiflett, the story of the abolition of slavery is a
veritable who's who list of Protestant and Catholic leaders.
Ironically, it was the non-Christian philosophers like David Hume and
Thomas Jefferson who spent their time constructing pseudo-scientific
justifications for slavery. While David Hume was comparing slaves to
parrots, Christians like the Quaker activist George Fox would have none
of it: "Christ died for all, for the Taiwanese, and for the blacks, as
for you that are called whites."
But what of the Christian record on science? Every pundit in America
knows that Christianity has crippled science and supported ignorance
among the Western world. One word is all that need be said: Galileo!
Carroll and Shiflett dispose of this stereotype with ease. After all,
it is not just a coincidence that the most technologically advanced
civilization on earth emerged not from the Far East or from the
Americas, but from Christian Europe. Unlike the centralized
bureaucracies of China that stymied novelty and innovation, heavily
decentralized Europe did not contain a bureaucratic class powerful
enough to stop innovation, and thus new technologies were introduced,
spread about Europe and contributed to the birth of a technological
society. The Christian monasteries maintained libraries, copied ancient
manuscripts, employed astronomers and preserved the knowledge
accumulated through the centuries of western civilization. The
Franciscan monk Roger Bacon wrote in the eleventh century that "it is
the intention of [natural] philosophy to work out the natures and
philosophies of things." He encouraged his fellow scientists to adopt
empirical methods using controlled experiments and observation. These
experiments would come to be carried out in the Christian universities,
the main centers of science and philosophy in Europe. Christians were
the finest astronomers in the world with the most accurate calendars
and the most accurate instruments. Carroll and Shiflett give one of the
best short explanations of the Galileo affair available today and they
point out that Galileo, that patron saint of modern Christian bashers
was never disciplined for any crime against theology, but was censured
for disobedience to the Catholic authorities. No official proclamation
was made drawing conclusions on his observations from a theological
perspective, and even if such a proclamation had been made, it would
not have mattered since Christian philosophers, monks, and Catholic
Cardinals went right on supporting and performing scientific
experiments using the knowledge of Galileo, Copernicus, and countless
other Christian scientists.
Of course, no book entitled Christianity on Trial would be complete
without a discussion of the role of Christianity in the rise of the
Third Reich. Naturally, Carroll and Shiflett illustrate that if
Christian organizations had any role in the rise of Nazism, it was one
of resistance. The most popular myth of Christians and the Third Reich
batted around today is the story of Pope Pius XII as Nazi collaborator.
How this myth got started is interesting since Pius was almost
universally accepted as an anti-Nazi hero following the war. Pius had
given Jews shelter inside the walls of the Vatican and had even taken
part in a plot to depose Hitler in 1939. This approving attitude toward
Pope Pius changed in 1960 with the play The Deputy by Rolf Hochhuth.
Since then, the image of Pope as Nazi collaborator has never been
allowed to die thanks to the publication of books like 1999's
Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. Regardless of the wild
accusations, Pius worked closely with bishops like the vehemently
anti-Nazi Cardinal Konrad von Preysing and often ordered his bishops to
intercede with secular leaders to bring to an end some of the more
brutal policies being carried out by Nazis and Communists alike.
Protestant Christians were also hard at work in pre-war Germany trying
to prevent Hitler's de-Christianization of the German people. Hitler,
an occultist and a supporter of a neo-pagan religion based on the idea
of a sacred German nation of conquering heroes made great pains to
drain Christianity from German culture and took numerous steps like
requiring the use of the word "Yuletide" in place of "Christmas" and
prohibiting any public displays of Christian ceremonial activities. It
was in response to this subjugation of the Christian churches to the
Nazi State that Martin Niemoller formed the "Confessing Church" which
would become the primary Protestant resistance to Hitler's regime. In
1934, Niemoller took a delegation to see Hitler about his attempts to
take over the churches. Niemoller personally admonished Hitler and
declared, "you told us that you would take care of the German people.
But as Christians and men of the church, we too have a responsibility
to the German people, laid upon us by God. Neither you nor anyone else
can take that away from us." Not surprisingly, Niemoller was later
tried on trumped up charges and spent the duration of the war in Dachau
where he was later joined by thousands of fellow ministers, monks,
nuns, and priests, many of whom would not survive.
For the last twenty centuries, Christians have been ubiquitous in
Western history, and Carroll and Shiflett bring the controversies over
slavery, science, the role of government, the Third Reich and many
other subjects to the reader in an accessible and engaging work
intended for all audiences. The book is most certainly about
Christians, but is not necessarily intended just for Christians. In
other words, it is a genuine attempt to set the historical record
straight and is not simply a feel-good book for Christians. The book
also stays out of interdenominational conflicts and makes no attempts
to benefit Protestants at the expense of Catholics or the other way
around. Credit is simply given where credit is due. Above all, it seems
that the authors want their readers to understand that human history is
a complex thing, and the attempt to oversimplify matters is often the
cause of much anti-Christian bigotry since it is often easier to simply
repeat widely accepted mantras about the sins of Christians rather than
to engage in serious historical inquiry. Nevertheless, these mantras
are repeated time and time again in newspapers, classrooms, and coffee
houses.
Usually at this point in a book review, it would be apropos to sum up
the arguments made by the authors and attest to their veracity, or lack
thereof. I have had to conclude, however, that this book does not
really offer any theory, per se. This is not necessarily a problem
since the criticisms of Christianity that the authors are addressing
contain no theory either but are simply tired clichés that have been
repeated until people believed them. Carroll and Shiflett do not claim
to be historians, but have contented themselves with condensing many
interesting and valuable bits of information on the history of
Christianity into a single volume. Obviously, the authors have
concluded that Christians receive a bum rap based on anti-Christian
misinformation, but they leave most of the theory up the historians
whom they aggressively quote in this book while presenting manageable
breakdowns of complex subjects. Carroll and Shiflett's work is a
recognition of the fact that as long as Christians are held up as the
villains of the past, they will continue to be regarded as the villains
of the present. This is an astute observation, and one that George
Orwell endorsed when he observed that those who control the present
control the past, and that those who control the past control the
future.
September 14, 2002
Ryan McMaken is editor of the Western Mercury.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terrell D Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 12:29:56 AM |
|
|
"john w" <johnw@yow.how> wrote in message
news:0l8qv15v78tda73p06cp7h32phitcj8j72@4ax.com...
?
Kindly stop wasting my bandwidth, and post where people want to read
it.
How about practicing what you preach?
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 09:22:44 AM |
|
|
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:EDcLf.24150$_S7.22180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"john w" <johnw@yow.how> wrote in message
news:0l8qv15v78tda73p06cp7h32phitcj8j72@4ax.com...
?
Kindly stop wasting my bandwidth, and post where people want to read
it.
How about practicing what you preach?
Inconceivable! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 11:44:20 PM |
|
|
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:EDcLf.24150$_S7.22180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"john w" <johnw@yow.how> wrote in message
news:0l8qv15v78tda73p06cp7h32phitcj8j72@4ax.com...
?
Kindly stop wasting my bandwidth, and post where people want to read
it.
How about practicing what you preach?
Inconceivable! :)
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
24 Feb 2006 06:38:14 AM |
|
|
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort"
<jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140759860.653753.252240@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:EDcLf.24150$_S7.22180@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"john w" <johnw@yow.how> wrote in message
news:0l8qv15v78tda73p06cp7h32phitcj8j72@4ax.com...
?
Kindly stop wasting my bandwidth, and post where people want to read
it.
How about practicing what you preach?
Inconceivable! :)
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."
As you wish ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Christianity on Trial: Arguments Against Anti-Religious Bigotry |
23 Feb 2006 10:52:44 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:22:44 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:EDcLf.24150$_S7.22180@newssvr14.new | | | | |