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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Date: 14 Jul 2005 11:13:29 PM
Object: Christianized Iraq getting better
Shiites bring rigid piety to Iraq's south
By Steven Vincent
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0713/p01s01-wome.html?s=eee
BASRA, IRAQ - In Basra these days, it's not uncommon to see armed men
from Shiite religious groups standing at the gates of Basra University,
scrutinizing female students to make sure their dresses are the right
length and their makeup properly modest.
Any woman violating their standards of Muslim dignity, relates Henan, a
psychology student, is ordered home. "These religious militiamen tell
us how to dress, and prevent us from listening to music in public or
interacting with male students," she says. "It makes me burn inside."
Henan is not the only Basran furious at the extremist Shiite Muslims
who now dominate this southern Iraqi port city bordering Iran.
Especially among the middle and intellectual classes, an increasing
drumbeat of resentment is rising about what many see as a distortion of
Basra's traditionally easygoing, tolerant attitudes toward life.
"No alcohol, no music CDs, woman forced to wear hijab, people murdered
in the streets - this is not the city I remember," says Samir, an
editor of one of Basra's largest newspapers. (His name, and others,
have been changed for security reasons.) "In the past, Basra revolted
against attempts to make it too Islamic."
One woman living in Basra says, "Before, we had Saddam; now we have
religious parties and militias. To them, a woman's smile is a crime."
With the fall of Saddam Hussein in April 2003, Shiite organizations,
many with close associations with Iran, seized political control of the
south. The Jan. 30 elections solidified their power, especially in
Basra, where 35 out of the 41 members of the province's Governing
Council (GC) belong to such groups as Dawa Islamiyya or the Supreme
Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). And despite some minor
doctrinal differences, their vision of this city is clear.
"Today, our society is changing, becoming more religious," says
provincial governor Mohammad al-Waali, who belongs to the Fadhallah
(Virtue) Party. "We must reflect that Basra is becoming a purely
Islamic city."
Sunnis, in particular, are unhappy with this fledgling Shiite
theocracy. "After the fall of Saddam, we expected a degree of political
oppression from the Shiite majority," says Jamal Khazaal, director of
the Basra headquarters of the Islamic Religious Party, a predominantly
Sunni group. "But in many ways, this is more difficult than we
anticipated."
Others contend that devotion to extreme Islam does not itself solve
Basra's problems. "These people held power for two years, and what did
they accomplish?" says Samir. "Basra is in shambles, we are without
electricity, fresh water, and security. They didn't even give us hope."
Others criticize GC members for, among other things, a lack of
education (some have not graduated from secondary school), questionable
business dealings (one member oversaw a multimillion-dollar road
construction project that never materialized), and ties to Iran (a
Ministry of Defense official in Basra claims that "50 percent" of the
GC have ties to the Islamic Republic).
"We have over 70 political parties, many without any constituents,"
says one academic. "Where do they get their funding? And whose
interests do they serve - Basra's or Tehran's?"
If Iran casts a political shadow over Basra, its influence on the
city's social life is even greater. Over the past year, for example,
many women changed their hijab style from the traditional Iraqi buknuk,
or tight-fitting cowl, to the looser Iranian-style scarf. "But of
course, the whole idea of compulsory hijab is Iranian," says Salaam
Wendy, a Basran who recently returned to the city after living overseas
for 20 years. "In the 1960s and 70s, you rarely saw women in Basra
covered."
As for the bans on alcohol, music CDs, or general mingling of the
sexes, "This is Iranian, too," says Mr. Wendy. "In the past, Basra had
bars, casinos, nightclubs - it had life. Basra has really become an
Iranian city. I no longer recognize it."
Another major source of extremist mores is firebrand cleric Moqtada
al-Sadr. Last March, Mr. Sadr's followers disrupted a picnic held by
Basra University students, during which men and women - many with their
hair uncovered - played secular music and mingled freely. In the
ensuing melee, Sadrists beat and robbed students, and one woman
temporarily lost her eyesight. And though Sadr's office later
apologized for the incident, some members remain unrepentant. "We
believe we have a religious task to separate good behavior from bad,"
says Abu Zahara al-Mayahi, a director of Sadr's Basra office.
The militias have also harassed Basra's media. At the scene of the
picnic attack, for example, Sadr's men physically assaulted and broke
the equipment of cameramen trying to film the event.
Recently, the author of a newspaper article about the Sadrist movement
received death threats because the newspaper accompanied the article
with a photograph that showed many women with uncovered hair.
But even this type of thuggery is not the only manifestation of
religious extremism in Basra today. "This is a city where if you have a
birthday party for your child, you could end up dead," says one Iraqi
journalist.
As drama professor Thawra Yousif Yaakub relates, her sister-in-law
Salina belonged to an all-female band that performed at baby showers,
birthday parties, and other festive occasions, playing before all-women
audiences only. Last May, the band were unloading their equipment on
the street after a gig, when a man leaped out of a car and opened fire,
killing Salina and another band member.
"They died because they were women and they made music," Yaakub says.
According to Iraqi officials, nearly 1,000 people - most of them Sunni
Muslims - have been killed in the city over the past three months, with
100 murdered in one week in May alone. In June, unknown assailants
killed three Sunni clerics: the bullet-ridden body of one was found
beside his untouched car, a clear sign that the murder was politically
motivated, rather than a criminal act.
While no one is certain about the killers' identities, Basrans have
their suspicions. Echoing sentiments one hears throughout the city, "I
believe intelligence agents from Iran identify the victims and then
hire gunmen affiliated with the religious parties," says a Sunni sheikh
in Zubair, a city southwest of Basra. "Their goal is to destabilize
southern Iraq."
The majority of religious party members are horrified by these
assassinations. Moreover, many are sincere in their efforts to improve
the squalid conditions in which many Basrans live. "We realize we have
to accomplish something to benefit the people," says SCIRI spokesman
Alaa Turej. "That is our responsibility to Basra."
But it may be too late. Many Basrans, tired of the increasing
"Iranification" of their city and a lack of basic services, plan to
vote in December for secular candidates, such as those headed by former
Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. Failing an electoral upset, these
critics of the religious parties hope time will end their reign.
"I'm confident these parties will vanish once our economy picks up and
the true nature of Basra reasserts itself," adds Samir, the newspaper
editor. "Until then, I will continue to watch my words regarding these
people."
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "Bill"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 02:29:31 PM
It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to
another.
Nice going Bush!
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11deeidhs10ge53@corp.supernews.com...

Shiites bring rigid piety to Iraq's south

By Steven Vincent

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0713/p01s01-wome.html?s=eee

BASRA, IRAQ - In Basra these days, it's not uncommon to see armed men
from Shiite religious groups standing at the gates of Basra University,
scrutinizing female students to make sure their dresses are the right
length and their makeup properly modest.

Any woman violating their standards of Muslim dignity, relates Henan, a
psychology student, is ordered home. "These religious militiamen tell
us how to dress, and prevent us from listening to music in public or
interacting with male students," she says. "It makes me burn inside."

Henan is not the only Basran furious at the extremist Shiite Muslims
who now dominate this southern Iraqi port city bordering Iran.
Especially among the middle and intellectual classes, an increasing
drumbeat of resentment is rising about what many see as a distortion of
Basra's traditionally easygoing, tolerant attitudes toward life.

"No alcohol, no music CDs, woman forced to wear hijab, people murdered
in the streets - this is not the city I remember," says Samir, an
editor of one of Basra's largest newspapers. (His name, and others,
have been changed for security reasons.) "In the past, Basra revolted
against attempts to make it too Islamic."

One woman living in Basra says, "Before, we had Saddam; now we have
religious parties and militias. To them, a woman's smile is a crime."

With the fall of Saddam Hussein in April 2003, Shiite organizations,
many with close associations with Iran, seized political control of the
south. The Jan. 30 elections solidified their power, especially in
Basra, where 35 out of the 41 members of the province's Governing
Council (GC) belong to such groups as Dawa Islamiyya or the Supreme
Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). And despite some minor
doctrinal differences, their vision of this city is clear.

"Today, our society is changing, becoming more religious," says
provincial governor Mohammad al-Waali, who belongs to the Fadhallah
(Virtue) Party. "We must reflect that Basra is becoming a purely
Islamic city."

Sunnis, in particular, are unhappy with this fledgling Shiite
theocracy. "After the fall of Saddam, we expected a degree of political
oppression from the Shiite majority," says Jamal Khazaal, director of
the Basra headquarters of the Islamic Religious Party, a predominantly
Sunni group. "But in many ways, this is more difficult than we
anticipated."

Others contend that devotion to extreme Islam does not itself solve
Basra's problems. "These people held power for two years, and what did
they accomplish?" says Samir. "Basra is in shambles, we are without
electricity, fresh water, and security. They didn't even give us hope."

Others criticize GC members for, among other things, a lack of
education (some have not graduated from secondary school), questionable
business dealings (one member oversaw a multimillion-dollar road
construction project that never materialized), and ties to Iran (a
Ministry of Defense official in Basra claims that "50 percent" of the
GC have ties to the Islamic Republic).

"We have over 70 political parties, many without any constituents,"
says one academic. "Where do they get their funding? And whose
interests do they serve - Basra's or Tehran's?"

If Iran casts a political shadow over Basra, its influence on the
city's social life is even greater. Over the past year, for example,
many women changed their hijab style from the traditional Iraqi buknuk,
or tight-fitting cowl, to the looser Iranian-style scarf. "But of
course, the whole idea of compulsory hijab is Iranian," says Salaam
Wendy, a Basran who recently returned to the city after living overseas
for 20 years. "In the 1960s and 70s, you rarely saw women in Basra
covered."

As for the bans on alcohol, music CDs, or general mingling of the
sexes, "This is Iranian, too," says Mr. Wendy. "In the past, Basra had
bars, casinos, nightclubs - it had life. Basra has really become an
Iranian city. I no longer recognize it."

Another major source of extremist mores is firebrand cleric Moqtada
al-Sadr. Last March, Mr. Sadr's followers disrupted a picnic held by
Basra University students, during which men and women - many with their
hair uncovered - played secular music and mingled freely. In the
ensuing melee, Sadrists beat and robbed students, and one woman
temporarily lost her eyesight. And though Sadr's office later
apologized for the incident, some members remain unrepentant. "We
believe we have a religious task to separate good behavior from bad,"
says Abu Zahara al-Mayahi, a director of Sadr's Basra office.

The militias have also harassed Basra's media. At the scene of the
picnic attack, for example, Sadr's men physically assaulted and broke
the equipment of cameramen trying to film the event.

Recently, the author of a newspaper article about the Sadrist movement
received death threats because the newspaper accompanied the article
with a photograph that showed many women with uncovered hair.

But even this type of thuggery is not the only manifestation of
religious extremism in Basra today. "This is a city where if you have a
birthday party for your child, you could end up dead," says one Iraqi
journalist.

As drama professor Thawra Yousif Yaakub relates, her sister-in-law
Salina belonged to an all-female band that performed at baby showers,
birthday parties, and other festive occasions, playing before all-women
audiences only. Last May, the band were unloading their equipment on
the street after a gig, when a man leaped out of a car and opened fire,
killing Salina and another band member.

"They died because they were women and they made music," Yaakub says.

According to Iraqi officials, nearly 1,000 people - most of them Sunni
Muslims - have been killed in the city over the past three months, with
100 murdered in one week in May alone. In June, unknown assailants
killed three Sunni clerics: the bullet-ridden body of one was found
beside his untouched car, a clear sign that the murder was politically
motivated, rather than a criminal act.

While no one is certain about the killers' identities, Basrans have
their suspicions. Echoing sentiments one hears throughout the city, "I
believe intelligence agents from Iran identify the victims and then
hire gunmen affiliated with the religious parties," says a Sunni sheikh
in Zubair, a city southwest of Basra. "Their goal is to destabilize
southern Iraq."

The majority of religious party members are horrified by these
assassinations. Moreover, many are sincere in their efforts to improve
the squalid conditions in which many Basrans live. "We realize we have
to accomplish something to benefit the people," says SCIRI spokesman
Alaa Turej. "That is our responsibility to Basra."

But it may be too late. Many Basrans, tired of the increasing
"Iranification" of their city and a lack of basic services, plan to
vote in December for secular candidates, such as those headed by former
Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. Failing an electoral upset, these
critics of the religious parties hope time will end their reign.

"I'm confident these parties will vanish once our economy picks up and
the true nature of Basra reasserts itself," adds Samir, the newspaper
editor. "Until then, I will continue to watch my words regarding these
people."

---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/

.
User: "Clockmeister"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 05:14:50 PM
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L5UBe.89948$qm.81204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to
another.

Nice going Bush!

I notice they are still linking Iraq to 9/11 even though there was
absolutely no terrorist threat from Iraq until after the US invaded.
No WMD's, but they did have security, good education system and relatively
normal lives even considering the sanctions on the people of Iraq...
What do they have now with their country in ruins?
Well, Bush the war criminal got his oil.
.
User: "Fredric L. Rice"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 16 Jul 2005 01:01:57 PM
"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L5UBe.89948$qm.81204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to
another.
Nice going Bush!

I notice they are still linking Iraq to 9/11 even though there was
absolutely no terrorist threat from Iraq until after the US invaded.

The fascist regime keps singing that tune all last month -- and
half the American sheeple (Republicans, of course) believe it
like good fucking morons.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "David Rice, Esq."

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 08:24:19 PM
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:14:50 +0800, "Clockmeister"
<no-one@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L5UBe.89948$qm.81204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to
another.

Nice going Bush!

I notice they are still linking Iraq to 9/11 even though there was
absolutely no terrorist threat from Iraq until after the US invaded.

According to a telephone survey published... when the hell was it? ...
in October, the huge majority of FOX "News" believed Iraq and Hessein
were responsible for the attack on the USA in September 2001, even
though the evidence against that belief was widely reported everywhere
else.

No WMD's, but they did have security, good education system and relatively
normal lives even considering the sanctions on the people of Iraq...

What do they have now with their country in ruins?

Well, Bush the war criminal got his oil.

Rumsfield canceled a trip to Germany when he learned there was a good
change he would be arrested for war crimes.
.
User: "Clockmeister"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 16 Jul 2005 04:21:58 AM
"David Rice, Esq." <desertphile@hottmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d86119.3335610@news.aioe.org...

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:14:50 +0800, "Clockmeister"
<no-one@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L5UBe.89948$qm.81204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...


It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to
another.

Nice going Bush!


I notice they are still linking Iraq to 9/11 even though there was
absolutely no terrorist threat from Iraq until after the US invaded.


According to a telephone survey published... when the hell was it? ...
in October, the huge majority of FOX "News" believed Iraq and Hessein
were responsible for the attack on the USA in September 2001, even
though the evidence against that belief was widely reported everywhere
else.

No WMD's, but they did have security, good education system and

relatively

normal lives even considering the sanctions on the people of Iraq...

What do they have now with their country in ruins?

Well, Bush the war criminal got his oil.


Rumsfield canceled a trip to Germany when he learned there was a good
change he would be arrested for war crimes.

Firing squad for that ***** too...
If I were to wish cancer on someone, he's the man.
.

User: "Fredric L. Rice"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 16 Jul 2005 01:05:22 PM
(David Rice, Esq.) wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 06:14:50 +0800, "Clockmeister"
<no-one@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
No WMD's, but they did have security, good education system and relatively
normal lives even considering the sanctions on the people of Iraq...
What do they have now with their country in ruins?
Well, Bush the war criminal got his oil.

Rumsfield canceled a trip to Germany when he learned there was a good
change he would be arrested for war crimes.

Mexico has stated that they will not grant US baby killers immunity
from prosecution for war crimes if they're wanted by the International
World Court. The fascist regime attempted to blackmail Mexico into
violating International Law by withholding financial aid but Mexico
discounted the threat with a note that Mexico doesn't get enough aid
to counter doing what's right by holding American war criminals to
justice.
I'd _love_ to see some of these Bushits get captured by Mexico and be
shipped off to the Hague to stand trial for their atrocities.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.



User: "Fredric L. Rice"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 16 Jul 2005 01:00:49 PM
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered them to another.
Nice going Bush!

The new one is even worse in so many ways than the old. The Bush
regime's lies about wood chippers and soaking enemies in acid and
other claims have been exposed, and the claims of "mass graves"
being uncovered from time to time -- often when Bush is caught in
yet another act of treason -- always prove either false or prove
to be the result of America's atrocities in Iraq.
Even as Saddam gets noted for the bassing of Iranians and Kurds,
those who point to that as a good reason to remove him "forget"
to note that it was Rumsfeld that gave Saddam the chemicals he
needed to cook the blistering agents used against "America's
enemies" while Saddam was a close frield, ally, and puppet despot
of the United States.
And, of course, Saddam's mass murders were officially "un-noticed"
by the United States government while installed, propped up, and
safeguarded Saddam's rule.
So now Iraq's latest puppet dictatorship is no different than the
previous one only now it's _worse_ in Iraq than under Saddam.
Isn't Christianity wonderful?

"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11deeidhs10ge53@corp.supernews.com...

Shiites bring rigid piety to Iraq's south
By Steven Vincent
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0713/p01s01-wome.html?s=eee

---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.

User: "David Rice, Esq."

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 04:31:03 PM
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:29:31 -0400, "Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered
them to another.

"We?"
The USA did the same thing in Afganistan: eject a few dozen homicidal
lunatics and install a few hundred other homicidal lunatics.
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 04:41:42 PM
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:31:03 GMT,
(David
Rice, Esq.) wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:29:31 -0400, "Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered
them to another.


"We?"

The USA did the same thing in Afganistan: eject a few dozen homicidal
lunatics and install a few hundred other homicidal lunatics.

But they were _our_ homicidal lunatics.
.
User: "David Rice, Esq."

Title: Re: Christianized Iraq getting better 15 Jul 2005 08:21:07 PM
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:41:42 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:31:03 GMT,

(David
Rice, Esq.) wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:29:31 -0400, "Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

It appears we have saved Iraqi's from one devil and delivered
them to another.

"We?"

The USA did the same thing in Afganistan: eject a few dozen homicidal
lunatics and install a few hundred other homicidal lunatics.

But they were _our_ homicidal lunatics.

Yes, and so was Saddam Hussein until the USA no longer needed him.
.





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