| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"towelie" |
| Date: |
13 May 2007 08:34:11 PM |
| Object: |
Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070510/ts_csm/cbelief_1
Salem, Mass. - Wednesday night on ABC-TV, two televangelists took on
nonbelievers from the Rational Response Squad in a bid to prove the
existence of God (see "Nightline Face Off" on ABCNews.com).
The TV polemics come in the wake of a rash of bestselling books by atheists
challenging religion. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens,
among others, go beyond questioning God to charge that religion is a plague
that needs to be eliminated. Their vehemence, some suggest, is in response
to Christian attacks on evolution and stem-cell research.
"It's Christian militancy that has evoked a backlash of atheist militancy,"
says Michael Bleiweiss, a physicist and atheist from Methuen, Mass.
Amid the rising heat of this latest culture clash, though, a few people on
both sides are finding calmer ways to engage, seeking to build bridges and
even learn from one another. Some Christians, concerned that millions of
Americans never cross the threshold of a church, want to understand why, as
well as learn what it is in evangelistic efforts that turns people off. Some
atheists, worried that polls show they are the least accepted social group
in the country, want to break down stereotypes and change people's
attitudes.
So both are willing to sit down together in different venues, discuss their
divergent perspectives, and, in some cases, jointly visit church services
across the United States. As a result, they are sparking a growing
Christian-atheist dialogue on the Web.
At a conference in Salem, Mass., last Saturday, for example, Christians from
several states listened to atheists and neopagans talk about who they are,
the origin of their ethics and beliefs, and what challenges they encounter
in a society that is predominantly Christian.
"I've never understood treating a people group as [the enemy] because their
belief system is different," says Phil Wyman, pastor of The Gathering, a
Salem church that sponsored the conference.
Jim Henderson, a former Evangelical pastor from Seattle who moderated the
atheism discussion, has been getting an earful for some time. Frustrated at
his inability to draw more people to his church, Mr. Henderson set out to
learn how "the unchurched" respond to various kinds of worship services -
what it is they find appealing and what leaves them cold. He began to pay
nonbelievers $25 to go to a church and tell him what they thought.
"I also became intrigued by why evangelism bothered everybody, including
me," he says in an interview. "I decided to devote my life to reimagining
evangelism ... how to do it and be 'normal.' "
Soon, he got wind of an auction on eBay in which a student at the University
of Illinois in Chicago proposed "selling my soul" to the highest bidder.
Young atheist Hemant Mehta had been raised in Jainism, but left the faith in
his teens. Mr. Mehta was curious about Christianity and whether it could
provide any evidence for the existence of God. Wondering if he might be
missing something, he offered to attend church with the winning bidder.
High bidder takes atheist to church
With the top bid of $504, Henderson asked Mehta to visit 15 churches, fill
out a survey on each one, and share his perspectives on Henderson's website
(off-the-map.org).
The experience has changed the lives of both men. Mehta, now an honors
graduate in mathematics and biology, has not converted, but the two have
become friends. Mehta has started his own blog (friendlyatheist.com) and
travels to speak to churches and humanist organizations. He has written a
book - "I Sold My Soul on eBay" - that explains why he is an atheist and
gives churches advice on what it would take to reach nonbelievers.
Henderson has gone on to pair with another atheist, Matt Casper, for further
church visits across the US, and they've written "Jim and Casper Go to
Church." Both books offer insightful, revealing, sometimes humorous
critiques of what a variety of Christian services, in churches of different
sizes and denominations, look like to the uninitiated.
Henderson also conducts interviews with men and women who are nonbelievers
as an event at church and pastor conferences. Many Evangelicals "are
obsessed with conversion," he says, and always speak of non-Christians as
"lost." The interviews show Christians immersed in their own culture and how
that sounds to the people they approach.
At the Salem conference, Mr. Bleiweiss recalled a co-worker who "worked
Jesus into every conversation we had."
Henderson's experiences have led him, with his "Off The Map" venture, into
"something larger than evangelism," what he calls "otherliness."
Otherliness - "the spirituality of serving others" - involves "drawing
people into the idea of paying real attention to each other, of listening."
He wants to teach individuals and groups of all kinds how to do a much
better job of listening to those they interact with.
For his part, Mehta is still open to "any compelling evidence of the
existence of God." He describes positive elements in some churches, such as
top-notch speakers and impressive community outreach. "The more work
churches do for everyone, the more respect they'll get from outsiders," he
writes.
Yet churchgoers are missing the mark, he says, when they think nonreligious
people lack a basis for ethical values, look down on non-Christians, or fail
to speak out against religious leaders who make outrageous public
statements.
What would convince him? A miracle.
During church services, they often fail to explain traditions or rituals,
which leaves visitors confused. "Why is the structure of the service always
the same?" Mehta wonders.
Zeroing in on "what it would take to convert me," he says a church would
need to appeal to his sense of reason, challenge him to think more deeply,
and allow for asking questions. "I wasn't confronted with a new line of
thinking that challenged my commitment to scientific empiricism," he writes.
Also, he'd want a church where "men and women lead on an equal basis."
Most important, he states, what would convince him would be "a miracle - an
undeniable miracle that has no natural explanation."
While on their tour of the most prominent megachurches and stylistically
innovative churches, Mr. Casper asked Henderson, "Is this what Jesus told
you guys to do?"
The 30-something father of two is generally unimpressed with the multimedia
"killer" church services they attend. Articulate in explaining his reactions
in detail, he, like Mehta, also finds in the predictable format of services
that "certainty is boring, certainty is closed off."
When a healing is mentioned in one Pentecostal service, though, he reacts
strongly. If that man can heal, he says, "why is he ... hanging out in this
building?... Get out there, then! There are people who need your help."
Saying that he loves the teachings of Jesus, along with those of other
important teachers, Casper concludes: "The question that just came up for me
again and again ... is, What does the way Christianity is practiced today
have to do with the ... words and deeds" of Jesus?
For Henderson, Wyman, and Mehta, the value of talking and listening to those
with differing worldviews has become crystal clear.
Pastor Wyman has been reaching out to non-Christians in Salem, and
particularly to the large neopagan community here (attracted, no doubt, by
Salem's identification with witchcraft in Colonial times). His stereotypes
about witches were often wrong, he says. Having formed respectful
relationships, he's now being asked to come to pagan events to speak about
Christian perspectives.
"Christians for quite some time have been creating events and trying to draw
people into our little box, and we call that 'outreach,' " he says. "This is
an exciting opportunity - people are opening, listening, and seeking out
spiritual things."
begin 666 b?P=Vh_Lw0SOwhV2NTaARkE.xBIJSsPTWEZHuFMAA5o8&T=19k9m9g9u%2fX%3d1179105363%2fE%3d96828302%2fR%3dnews%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d2.1%2fW%3dH%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d835324797%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJuZXdzIiBjb250ZW50PSJpdDtjb2xkO2VCYXk7bWFwO21hbjtoZWxwO3JlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIiByZWZ1cmw9InJlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIiB0b3BpY3M9InJlZnVybF93d3dfeWFob29fY29tIg--%2fQ%3d-1%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d0247BFD1&U=13brekjbk%2fN%3diaBzMESOxIo-%2fC%3d584820.10416220.11172263.1442997%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4524401
K1TE&.#EA`0`!`( ``/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````!``$```("1 $`.P``
`
end
.
|
|
| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue |
13 May 2007 10:09:38 PM |
|
|
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070510/ts_csm/cbelief_1
Mr. Henderson set out to
learn how "the unchurched" respond to various kinds of worship services -
what it is they find appealing and what leaves them cold. He began to pay
nonbelievers $25 to go to a church and tell him what they thought.
Jesus H, who beside a hardcore alcoholic or illegal immigrant out of a
container from China would waste an entire Sunday morning for a paltry
$25?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue |
13 May 2007 08:42:10 PM |
|
|
towelie wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070510/ts_csm/cbelief_1
Salem, Mass. - Wednesday night on ABC-TV, two televangelists took on
nonbelievers from the Rational Response Squad in a bid to prove the
existence of God (see "Nightline Face Off" on ABCNews.com).
The TV polemics come in the wake of a rash of bestselling books by atheists
challenging religion. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens,
among others, go beyond questioning God to charge that religion is a plague
that needs to be eliminated.
Do all three really suggest that? I kind of doubt it....
Jim
.
|
|
|
| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue |
13 May 2007 10:04:30 PM |
|
|
J Forbes wrote:
towelie wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070510/ts_csm/cbelief_1
Salem, Mass. - Wednesday night on ABC-TV, two televangelists took on
nonbelievers from the Rational Response Squad in a bid to prove the
existence of God (see "Nightline Face Off" on ABCNews.com).
The TV polemics come in the wake of a rash of bestselling books by
atheists challenging religion. Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and
Christopher Hitchens, among others, go beyond questioning God to
charge that religion is a plague that needs to be eliminated.
Do all three really suggest that? I kind of doubt it....
In a nutshell, they do. And they're right.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeckyl" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue |
13 May 2007 10:11:39 PM |
|
|
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:m5mdneN3QuQjTNrbnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
J Forbes wrote:
towelie wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070510/ts_csm/cbelief_1
Salem, Mass. - Wednesday night on ABC-TV, two televangelists took on
nonbelievers from the Rational Response Squad in a bid to prove the
existence of God (see "Nightline Face Off" on ABCNews.com).
It appears they did not succeed :)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
