| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark Nutter" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2004 07:38:50 PM |
| Object: |
Christians are atheists... |
....about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
m
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
02 Aug 2004 04:16:13 AM |
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"Mark Nutter" <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote in message
news:manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com...
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
m
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you
will understand why I dismiss yours."
Stephen Roberts
Kathryn
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
02 Aug 2004 01:33:38 AM |
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In article <manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>,
Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote:
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
Or I suppose another way to put it is that we only disbelieve in one
more god than they do
m
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
02 Aug 2004 02:54:32 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-7E490C.23333801082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>,
Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote:
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
Or I suppose another way to put it is that we only disbelieve in one
more god than they do
I see it's time to resurrect an old sig file of mine. ;)
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed
in. Most of us just go one god further."
Richard Dawkins
I've never heard anyone else say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the
sentiment had been expressed before.
On a lighter note, a book that I was reading the other day presented a fun
little argument. And if I ever wanted to crosspost to a religious group, oh
Lord...-now- is the time! The writer presented the argument that the
greatest atheist of all was...God. (Think about it.) He then went a
delicious step further, and declared that the greatest -theist- of all time
was...Satan! (First-hand knowledge of god, etc. etc. I don't imagine that
Jesus counts as a theist, being 1/3 of the divine triumvirate and all.)
And -then- he went an even tastier step further and showed that in the end,
according to the Bible, the greatest atheist of all time will defeat the
greatest theist of all time. What a hoot!
I can't believe I actually just said "hoot". But it seemed to fit, so there
we go.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
03 Aug 2004 12:14:08 AM |
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In article <YqmPc.10750$Je5.1979@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-7E490C.23333801082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>,
Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote:
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
Or I suppose another way to put it is that we only disbelieve in one
more god than they do
I see it's time to resurrect an old sig file of mine. ;)
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed
in. Most of us just go one god further."
Richard Dawkins
I've never heard anyone else say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the
sentiment had been expressed before.
A long time ago, I read about an atheist using that line in a debate.
It wasn't Dawkins, but I can't remember who or when it was spoken.
On a lighter note, a book that I was reading the other day presented a fun
little argument. And if I ever wanted to crosspost to a religious group, oh
Lord...-now- is the time! The writer presented the argument that the
greatest atheist of all was...God. (Think about it.) He then went a
delicious step further, and declared that the greatest -theist- of all time
was...Satan! (First-hand knowledge of god, etc. etc. I don't imagine that
Jesus counts as a theist, being 1/3 of the divine triumvirate and all.)
And -then- he went an even tastier step further and showed that in the end,
according to the Bible, the greatest atheist of all time will defeat the
greatest theist of all time. What a hoot!
I can't believe I actually just said "hoot". But it seemed to fit, so there
we go.
'Hoot' all you want. That was funny yet a good argument.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
03 Aug 2004 01:39:14 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:14:08 -0500, johac wrote
(in article <jhachm-EA7BF6.22140802082004@news.giganews.com>):
In article <YqmPc.10750$Je5.1979@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
snip
On a lighter note, a book that I was reading the other day presented a fun
little argument. And if I ever wanted to crosspost to a religious group, oh
Lord...-now- is the time! The writer presented the argument that the
greatest atheist of all was...God. (Think about it.) He then went a
delicious step further, and declared that the greatest -theist- of all time
was...Satan! (First-hand knowledge of god, etc. etc. I don't imagine that
Jesus counts as a theist, being 1/3 of the divine triumvirate and all.)
And -then- he went an even tastier step further and showed that in the end,
according to the Bible, the greatest atheist of all time will defeat the
greatest theist of all time. What a hoot!
I can't believe I actually just said "hoot". But it seemed to fit, so there
we go.
'Hoot' all you want. That was funny yet a good argument.
That it is, I certainly enjoyed it.
Thanks, Honus.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"I've got a pen and I'm not afraid to use it."-Charles R Ward
.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
04 Aug 2004 04:40:25 PM |
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"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD349D42004F613BF02845B0@news.central.cox.net...
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:14:08 -0500, johac wrote
(in article <jhachm-EA7BF6.22140802082004@news.giganews.com>):
In article <YqmPc.10750$Je5.1979@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
snip
On a lighter note, a book that I was reading the other day presented a
fun
little argument. And if I ever wanted to crosspost to a religious
group, oh
Lord...-now- is the time! The writer presented the argument that the
greatest atheist of all was...God. (Think about it.) He then went a
delicious step further, and declared that the greatest -theist- of all
time
was...Satan! (First-hand knowledge of god, etc. etc. I don't imagine
that
Jesus counts as a theist, being 1/3 of the divine triumvirate and all.)
And -then- he went an even tastier step further and showed that in the
end,
according to the Bible, the greatest atheist of all time will defeat
the
greatest theist of all time. What a hoot!
I can't believe I actually just said "hoot". But it seemed to fit, so
there
we go.
'Hoot' all you want. That was funny yet a good argument.
That it is, I certainly enjoyed it.
Thanks, Honus.
Don't mention it. I got a real kick out of the argument, and I'm a little
surprised more people haven't commented on it. Must not have been too many
people following this particular thread.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
05 Aug 2004 12:12:08 AM |
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In article <dJcQc.368$Po1.153@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
"Harry F. Leopold" <hleopold@coxyx.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD349D42004F613BF02845B0@news.central.cox.net...
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:14:08 -0500, johac wrote
(in article <jhachm-EA7BF6.22140802082004@news.giganews.com>):
In article <YqmPc.10750$Je5.1979@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
snip
On a lighter note, a book that I was reading the other day presented a
fun
little argument. And if I ever wanted to crosspost to a religious
group, oh
Lord...-now- is the time! The writer presented the argument that the
greatest atheist of all was...God. (Think about it.) He then went a
delicious step further, and declared that the greatest -theist- of all
time
was...Satan! (First-hand knowledge of god, etc. etc. I don't imagine
that
Jesus counts as a theist, being 1/3 of the divine triumvirate and all.)
And -then- he went an even tastier step further and showed that in the
end,
according to the Bible, the greatest atheist of all time will defeat
the
greatest theist of all time. What a hoot!
I can't believe I actually just said "hoot". But it seemed to fit, so
there
we go.
'Hoot' all you want. That was funny yet a good argument.
That it is, I certainly enjoyed it.
Thanks, Honus.
Don't mention it. I got a real kick out of the argument, and I'm a little
surprised more people haven't commented on it. Must not have been too many
people following this particular thread.
The problem with this group is that there is always so much going on
that it's nearly impossible to keep up with every thread.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
05 Aug 2004 02:44:10 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-DBB1C7.22120804082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <dJcQc.368$Po1.153@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
Don't mention it. I got a real kick out of the argument, and I'm a
little
surprised more people haven't commented on it. Must not have been too
many
people following this particular thread.
The problem with this group is that there is always so much going on
that it's nearly impossible to keep up with every thread.
Well, that and the fact that such a large percentage of threads aren't worth
following in the first place. ;)
Not that this one wasn't, but anyone who's been on Usenet for any length of
time knows exactly what I mean.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
06 Aug 2004 12:01:10 AM |
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In article <ezlQc.5$z9.3@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-DBB1C7.22120804082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <dJcQc.368$Po1.153@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
Don't mention it. I got a real kick out of the argument, and I'm a
little
surprised more people haven't commented on it. Must not have been too
many
people following this particular thread.
The problem with this group is that there is always so much going on
that it's nearly impossible to keep up with every thread.
Well, that and the fact that such a large percentage of threads aren't worth
following in the first place. ;)
Not that this one wasn't, but anyone who's been on Usenet for any length of
time knows exactly what I mean.
Agreed. The noise to signal ration is getting pretty high around here.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
06 Aug 2004 04:48:51 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-1C8615.22011005082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <ezlQc.5$z9.3@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
Well, that and the fact that such a large percentage of threads aren't
worth
following in the first place. ;)
Not that this one wasn't, but anyone who's been on Usenet for any length
of
time knows exactly what I mean.
Agreed. The noise to signal ration is getting pretty high around here.
I was away from Usenet for awhile; it seems to have gotten quite a bit worse
in the time that I was gone. There have always been certifiable loons out
there, but they seem to be crawling out of the woodwork now. And of course,
the political season has only served to worsen things.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
07 Aug 2004 01:16:14 AM |
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In article <7uIQc.1904$721.1449@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-1C8615.22011005082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <ezlQc.5$z9.3@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
Well, that and the fact that such a large percentage of threads aren't
worth
following in the first place. ;)
Not that this one wasn't, but anyone who's been on Usenet for any length
of
time knows exactly what I mean.
Agreed. The noise to signal ration is getting pretty high around here.
I was away from Usenet for awhile; it seems to have gotten quite a bit worse
in the time that I was gone. There have always been certifiable loons out
there, but they seem to be crawling out of the woodwork now. And of course,
the political season has only served to worsen things.
I know what you mean. I have to check my headers every other post to
make sure that I haven't stumbled into alt.politics.looneybin
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Honus" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
07 Aug 2004 03:40:33 PM |
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"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-38065D.23161306082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <7uIQc.1904$721.1449@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid> wrote:
I was away from Usenet for awhile; it seems to have gotten quite a bit
worse
in the time that I was gone. There have always been certifiable loons
out
there, but they seem to be crawling out of the woodwork now. And of
course,
the political season has only served to worsen things.
I know what you mean. I have to check my headers every other post to
make sure that I haven't stumbled into alt.politics.looneybin
There you go...a new name for Usenet. It's like that -everywhere-. Someone
did the tabulating in another newsgroup that I follow, and the posts are
running IIRC 20% on topic, 80% political crap-flinging for the last month.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
08 Aug 2004 11:42:13 PM |
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In article <57bRc.1361$l96.744@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-38065D.23161306082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <7uIQc.1904$721.1449@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net.is.invalid> wrote:
I was away from Usenet for awhile; it seems to have gotten quite a bit
worse
in the time that I was gone. There have always been certifiable loons
out
there, but they seem to be crawling out of the woodwork now. And of
course,
the political season has only served to worsen things.
I know what you mean. I have to check my headers every other post to
make sure that I haven't stumbled into alt.politics.looneybin
There you go...a new name for Usenet. It's like that -everywhere-. Someone
did the tabulating in another newsgroup that I follow, and the posts are
running IIRC 20% on topic, 80% political crap-flinging for the last month.
Yeah. the politics are hard to avoid at this time. Not only is the
country so polarized, but I can never recall when emotions ran so
high. If any good comes out of this election, it might be that more
people will take interest in politics and become regular voters.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
03 Aug 2004 01:37:48 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:14:08 -0500, johac wrote
(in article <jhachm-EA7BF6.22140802082004@news.giganews.com>):
Subject: Re: Christians are atheists...
From: johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>
Date: Today 0:14
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
In article <YqmPc.10750$Je5.1979@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>,
"Honus" <honus1@earthlink.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachm@ixpresremove.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-7E490C.23333801082004@news.giganews.com...
In article <manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>,
Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote:
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
Or I suppose another way to put it is that we only disbelieve in one
more god than they do
I see it's time to resurrect an old sig file of mine. ;)
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed
in. Most of us just go one god further."
Richard Dawkins
I've never heard anyone else say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the
sentiment had been expressed before.
A long time ago, I read about an atheist using that line in a debate. It
wasn't Dawkins, but I can't remember who or when it was spoken.
snip
It has been around for (at least) decades, possibly for hundreds or thousands
of years.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"Your god wears fuzzy, pink, bunny slippers."
.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
09 Aug 2004 11:34:26 AM |
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Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote in message news:<manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>...
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
I've always found this kind of statement to be a bit on the trite
side, frankly. Yes, Christians don't believe in other gods but their
reasons for doing so are rather different from the sort of rationale
that most atheists are prone to employ since their justifications are
specifically religious and specifically based on their faith in the
truth of their beliefs.
This kind of statement could easily lend itself to the all too common
argument that atheism is just another religion and that its foundation
is mere faith.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "Mark Nutter" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
09 Aug 2004 03:14:46 PM |
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In article <ffc8a152.0408090834.67c3fdca@posting.google.com>,
(Andrew Lias) wrote:
Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote in message
news:<manutter51-1841FF.20385001082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>...
...about everyone else's gods. Point worth considering whenever you
hear someone claiming that atheists are fools.
I've always found this kind of statement to be a bit on the trite
side, frankly. Yes, Christians don't believe in other gods but their
reasons for doing so are rather different from the sort of rationale
that most atheists are prone to employ since their justifications are
specifically religious and specifically based on their faith in the
truth of their beliefs.
Good point. But many of the arguments in favor of Christianity are
equally trite, so perhaps it has a place anyway. And it could lead to a
deeper discussion, if for example the Christian were to try to give an
atheist some kind of objective reason for rejecting other religions.
With one exception, every argument you could use to disprove
non-Christian gods can be applied with equal validity to the Christian
God. The one exception, of course, being "Assuming the Christian God is
real, all other gods must be false, because the Christian God is God,
and claims to be the only God." And even that argument can disprove the
Christian God, if we allow a believer from a non-Christian religion to
begin with the same assumption that his or her religion's god(s) is/are
real.
This kind of statement could easily lend itself to the all too common
argument that atheism is just another religion and that its foundation
is mere faith.
Well, one could always counter that if so, atheism must be the universal
faith, since everybody disbelieves in *something*. That might be a fun
point to raise the next time someone claims that American government
should officially reflect the religious beliefs of the majority.
m
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Andrew Lias" |
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| Title: Re: Christians are atheists... |
11 Aug 2004 08:14:46 AM |
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Mark Nutter <manutter51@alethian.org> wrote in message news:<manutter51-7CE1CB.16144609082004@corp.newsfeeds.com>...
In article <ffc8a152.0408090834.67c3fdca@posting.google.com>,
anrwlias@gmail.com (Andrew Lias) wrote:
[...]
I've always found this kind of statement to be a bit on the trite
side, frankly. Yes, Christians don't believe in other gods but their
reasons for doing so are rather different from the sort of rationale
that most atheists are prone to employ since their justifications are
specifically religious and specifically based on their faith in the
truth of their beliefs.
Good point. But many of the arguments in favor of Christianity are
equally trite, so perhaps it has a place anyway. And it could lead to a
deeper discussion, if for example the Christian were to try to give an
atheist some kind of objective reason for rejecting other religions.
That's fair. I could see it being used as a conversational wedge. I
think that my major problem with this kind of statement is that it's
often just thrown out as a kind of bumper-sticker statement without
any sort of follow-up or clarification.
With one exception, every argument you could use to disprove
non-Christian gods can be applied with equal validity to the Christian
God. The one exception, of course, being "Assuming the Christian God is
real, all other gods must be false, because the Christian God is God,
and claims to be the only God." And even that argument can disprove the
Christian God, if we allow a believer from a non-Christian religion to
begin with the same assumption that his or her religion's god(s) is/are
real.
Indeed, although it is surprising how many people can't seem to make
that cognitive leap.
This kind of statement could easily lend itself to the all too common
argument that atheism is just another religion and that its foundation
is mere faith.
Well, one could always counter that if so, atheism must be the universal
faith, since everybody disbelieves in *something*. That might be a fun
point to raise the next time someone claims that American government
should officially reflect the religious beliefs of the majority.
Heh.
--
Andrew Lias
http://andrewlias.blogspot.com
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