| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Gastrich" |
| Date: |
06 Jan 2005 07:04:28 PM |
| Object: |
Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please take a
read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think that the
City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still think the
American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for First Amendment
freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in Philadelphia
where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for expressing their
free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for peacefully
quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor determined to be
"fighting words" when cited among homosexual activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by the
organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels blocking
the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them, blowing whistles
and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and calm at all times, despite
what appears to be extraordinary provocation, intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
And they've been charged with a long list of felonies and hate crimes that
would make the Founding Fathers spin in their graves.
Repent America director Michael Marcavage is charged with three felonies -
criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation and riot. (If you're wondering what
"ethnic intimidation" means at a homosexual event, you have to understand
the city of Philadelphia has extended hate crime laws to protect the
sexually aberrant as well as racial minorities.) He was also hit with five
misdemeanors for walking on the city sidewalks and quoting Holy Scriptures.
Mark Diener and James Cruse are charged with criminal conspiracy, failure to
disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways. Dennis Green is
charged with criminal conspiracy, disorderly conduct and obstructing
highways. The criminal conspiracy charge links all the defendants together
so that Marcavage's "ethnic intimidation" hate-crime charge will apply to
all of them.
This is one of the most brazen, frontal attacks on religious freedom and
free speech I have seen in my lifetime. If these charges stand, Christians
across America will soon be hunted down like dogs as they are in many parts
of the world today as the most persecuted religious group on the planet.
It's ironic that this persecution would take place in Philadelphia, the
so-called "City of Brotherly Love."
Of course, Philadelphia wasn't always so inhospitable to Christians.
It's worth remembering the very first legislative act in Pennsylvania, April
25, 1682. It was called the Great Law of Pennsylvania - and great it was.
"Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and
the end of government, and, therefore government itself is a venerable
ordinance of God ... [there shall be established] laws as shall best
preserve true Christian and civil liberty, in opposition to all unchristian,
licentious, and unjust practices, whereby God may have his due, and Caesar
his due, and the people their due, from tyranny and oppression."
If indeed the Philadelphia 4 are convicted and sentenced to hard time,
Christians need to march on the Philadelphia courthouse, encircle it, blow
the trumpets and prepare to watch God work a miracle like He did at Jericho.
We should do this not just for the injustice to the four Philadelphia
Christians, but because no one in America - not Christians or
non-Christians, not black or white, not homosexual or heterosexual - will
truly be free. We will be living in a country where people can be imprisoned
arbitrarily for breaking no law other than the law of "political
correctness."
If we're going to save freedom in America, it's going to take a miracle.
Will you come to Philadelphia?
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Posted: December 20, 2004
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free
indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "The New Prophets" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
06 Jan 2005 07:27:21 PM |
|
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"Jason Gastrich" <> wrote in message
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
Jason buddy, you are getting your knickers all in a knot for nothing.
Please tell us why the other seven members of Repent America were not
arrested, and facing charges.
Please tell us why these 11 members, decided to attend a gay rally, if not
to cause trouble.
And did they not quote hate literature out of a book of Myths??
Not myth, you say!! Then please show us the exact date, and by whom, the
particular piece they quoted was written!! If you say Moses, please tell us
where the original is located!!
Perhaps these four will get some prison time, and learn that same sex is not
so bad. It would serve the fundies right!!
You have a good day.
.
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| User: "Eric Gill" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
06 Jan 2005 09:04:09 PM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
Repent America director Michael Marcavage is charged with three
felonies - criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation and riot. (If
you're wondering what "ethnic intimidation" means at a homosexual
event, you have to understand the city of Philadelphia has extended
hate crime laws to protect the sexually aberrant as well as racial
minorities).
That "sexually aberrant" crack you couldn't resist throwing in doesn't help
your case much, Gastrich.
What does anyone want to bet his entire description of the situation will
be wrong once someone actually looks into it?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
10 Jan 2005 03:34:07 AM |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:04:09 GMT, Eric Gill <ericvgill@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
Repent America director Michael Marcavage is charged with three
felonies - criminal conspiracy, ethnic intimidation and riot. (If
you're wondering what "ethnic intimidation" means at a homosexual
event, you have to understand the city of Philadelphia has extended
hate crime laws to protect the sexually aberrant as well as racial
minorities).
That "sexually aberrant" crack you couldn't resist throwing in doesn't help
your case much, Gastrich.
What does anyone want to bet his entire description of the situation will
be wrong once someone actually looks into it?
Sucker bet. Gasbag is such a low-life it would need a super Hubble
just to get a glimpse of a snake's *****.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 12:01:58 AM |
|
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please take
a read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think that
the City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still think
the American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for First
Amendment freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in
Philadelphia where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for
expressing their free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for
peacefully quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor
determined to be "fighting words" when cited among homosexual
activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by
the organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels
blocking the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them,
blowing whistles and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and calm
at all times, despite what appears to be extraordinary provocation,
intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
Cool. Learn from this and shut your fucking gob, preacher boy.
--
Dr. Smartass -- BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur, nor?
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 01:57:12 AM |
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Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please take
a read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think
that the City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still think
the American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for First
Amendment freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in
Philadelphia where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for
expressing their free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for
peacefully quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor
determined to be "fighting words" when cited among homosexual
activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by
the organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels
blocking the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them,
blowing whistles and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and
calm at all times, despite what appears to be extraordinary
provocation, intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
Cool. Learn from this and shut your fucking gob, preacher boy.
Is that the sentiment among all the atheists around here?
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of speech to
say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 02:06:13 AM |
|
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com:
Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please
take a read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think
that the City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still
think the American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for
First Amendment freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in
Philadelphia where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for
expressing their free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for
peacefully quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor
determined to be "fighting words" when cited among homosexual
activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by
the organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels
blocking the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them,
blowing whistles and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and
calm at all times, despite what appears to be extraordinary
provocation, intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
Cool. Learn from this and shut your fucking gob, preacher boy.
Is that the sentiment among all the atheists around here?
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
You don't hear well, I see. Gob, shut--you're not entitled to tell others
how much you dislike what they do, you fucking *****.
--
Dr. Smartass -- BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur, nor?
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 02:14:00 AM |
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Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com:
Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please
take a read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think
that the City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still
think the American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for
First Amendment freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in
Philadelphia where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for
expressing their free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for
peacefully quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor
determined to be "fighting words" when cited among homosexual
activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent
America attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by
the organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels
blocking the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them,
blowing whistles and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and
calm at all times, despite what appears to be extraordinary
provocation, intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
Cool. Learn from this and shut your fucking gob, preacher boy.
Is that the sentiment among all the atheists around here?
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
You don't hear well, I see. Gob, shut--you're not entitled to tell
others how much you dislike what they do, you fucking *****.
Really? Someone should have told this to John Kerry a few months ago . . .
someone should forward this memo to Al Franken.
On the contrary, in all seriousness, I do respect and support freedom of
speech. I see that you do so, selectively; which isn't fair.
JG
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 04:34:39 AM |
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In our last episode <IfmDd.62283$gd.61649@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich lept out of the bushes shouting:
Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com:
Doc Smartass wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:0ZfDd.62244$gd.11405@twister.socal.rr.com:
You may already be familiar with this situation. If not, please take
a read.
Do you agree with these Christians being jailed? Or do you think
that the City of Philadelphia has gone to far? Why or why not?
Free the Philadelphia 4
December 20, 2004
by Joseph Farah
I'm amazed when seemingly intelligent people tell me they still think
the American Civil Liberties Union is a group that fights for First
Amendment freedoms no matter whose ox is being gored.
If that's the case, why is the ACLU not filing amicus briefs in
Philadelphia where four Christians are facing 47 years in jail for
expressing their free-speech rights?
That's right. Four Christians are facing 47 years in prison for
peacefully quoting the Bible, an action an unglued local prosecutor
determined to be "fighting words" when cited among homosexual
activists.
It all started Oct. 10, when a total of 11 members of Repent America
attended a homosexual street festival called "Outfest."
The group, ranging in age from 17 to 72, was surrounded at times by
the organizers' security force, known as the "Pink Angels."
Videotapes and still photos taken at the event show the Pink Angels
blocking the path of the Repent America members, shouting at them,
blowing whistles and so forth. The Christians remain peaceful and
calm at all times, despite what appears to be extraordinary
provocation, intimidation and harassment.
Guess who was arrested?
That's right. The Christians.
Cool. Learn from this and shut your fucking gob, preacher boy.
Is that the sentiment among all the atheists around here?
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of speech
to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
You don't hear well, I see. Gob, shut--you're not entitled to tell
others how much you dislike what they do, you fucking *****.
Really? Someone should have told this to John Kerry a few months ago . .
. someone should forward this memo to Al Franken.
On the contrary, in all seriousness, I do respect and support freedom of
speech. I see that you do so, selectively; which isn't fair.
Trying to cause a riot is not free speech.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 12:58:18 AM |
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:14:00 GMT, "Jason Gastrich"
<usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Really? Someone should have told this to John Kerry a few months ago . . .
someone should forward this memo to Al Franken.
On the contrary, in all seriousness, I do respect and support freedom of
speech. I see that you do so, selectively; which isn't fair.
Life isn't fair.
Otherwise fake doctors peddling bibles to the needy Germans would
serve lengthy jail terms.
.
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| User: "lizzard woman" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 02:16:30 AM |
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"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
| Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
| It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of speech to
| say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel of you
to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom to force your
religious views on this matter on innocent, unsuspecting people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are born
gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing a horrible
thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays correctly don't give a
hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So even though we are talking
about a relatively small group of people, it's still like you castigating
your daughter for having the color hair she happens to have. It's cruel and
heartless.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
.
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 11:55:48 PM |
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In article <2imDd.728570$nl.580173@pd7tw3no>, lizzard woman
<kimosabeRMOVE@shaw.ca> wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
| Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
| It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of speech to
| say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel of you
to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom to force your
religious views on this matter on innocent, unsuspecting people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are born
gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing a horrible
thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays correctly don't give a
hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So even though we are talking
about a relatively small group of people, it's still like you castigating
your daughter for having the color hair she happens to have. It's cruel and
heartless.
You're on to something here. And I'd like to expand on it, if I may:
It boggles my mind that Jason and his ilk want to use the methods
successfully employed by Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr to _free_
entire peoples from oppression to do exactly the opposite; to oppress a
group of people who simply want to be treated equally to the rest of
us. They have co-opted civil disobedience and 'peaceful' demonstration
NOT to win rights for others, but to make sure that others don't get
rights (or worse, to take away what few they might have).
Then, they have the gall to ***** and moan when they get slapped down.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
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| User: "lizzard woman" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 12:13:37 AM |
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"chibiabos" <chib@outreach.com> wrote in message
news:070120051555487703%chib@outreach.com...
| In article <2imDd.728570$nl.580173@pd7tw3no>, lizzard woman
| <kimosabeRMOVE@shaw.ca> wrote:
|
| > "Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
| > | Doc Smartass wrote:
| >
| > (snip)
| >
| > | It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to
| > | say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
| >
| > I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel of
you
| > to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom to force
your
| > religious views on this matter on innocent, unsuspecting people.
| >
| > The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are
born
| > gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing a
horrible
| > thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays correctly don't give a
| > hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So even though we are talking
| > about a relatively small group of people, it's still like you
castigating
| > your daughter for having the color hair she happens to have. It's cruel
and
| > heartless.
|
| You're on to something here. And I'd like to expand on it, if I may:
|
| It boggles my mind that Jason and his ilk want to use the methods
| successfully employed by Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr to _free_
| entire peoples from oppression to do exactly the opposite; to oppress a
| group of people who simply want to be treated equally to the rest of
| us. They have co-opted civil disobedience and 'peaceful' demonstration
| NOT to win rights for others, but to make sure that others don't get
| rights (or worse, to take away what few they might have).
|
| Then, they have the gall to ***** and moan when they get slapped down.
Good point. I hope it sinks in with Jason.
I think this type of problem can always be traced back to the proselytizing
characteristic of Christianity. Unlike Judaism, for example, Christians are
required to inflict themselves and their beliefs on innocent, unsuspecting
people as a part of their religion. It belies a huge hubris on their part
that they think their belief is so much more correct than the beliefs of
others than they feel justified in proselytizing. Thus you can make the
case that Christians are driven to pathologically rude behavior by their
religion on innocent people minding their own business (like the gay
marchers) when they proselytize. To free-thinkers, it's all a pretty silly
game.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
.
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| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 02:18:45 AM |
|
|
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel
of you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom
to force your religious views on this matter on innocent,
unsuspecting people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are
born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing
a horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays
correctly don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So
even though we are talking about a relatively small group of people,
it's still like you castigating your daughter for having the color
hair she happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that way at
all.
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 12:32:48 PM |
|
|
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kmDd.62286$gd.35968@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel
of you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom
to force your religious views on this matter on innocent,
unsuspecting people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are
born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing
a horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays
correctly don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So
even though we are talking about a relatively small group of people,
it's still like you castigating your daughter for having the color
hair she happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that way at
all.
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Obviously you don't know any gay people.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 12:41:33 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <347drgF45sa5sU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
of the bushes shouting:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kmDd.62286$gd.35968@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel of
you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom to
force your religious views on this matter on innocent, unsuspecting
people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are
born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing a
horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays correctly
don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So even though
we are talking about a relatively small group of people, it's still
like you castigating your daughter for having the color hair she
happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that way at
all.
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Obviously you don't know any gay people.
Or doesn't know he knows...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "David D." |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 03:10:27 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In our last episode <347drgF45sa5sU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff
lept out
of the bushes shouting:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kmDd.62286$gd.35968@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely
cruel of
you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom
to
force your religious views on this matter on innocent,
unsuspecting
people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people
are
born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are
doing a
horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays
correctly
don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So even
though
we are talking about a relatively small group of people, it's
still
like you castigating your daughter for having the color hair she
happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that
way at
all.
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that
way?
Obviously you don't know any gay people.
Or doesn't know he knows...
Or knows one but is trying to cover it up...
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 04:45:26 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:32:48 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that way at
all.
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Obviously you don't know any gay people.
I wouldn't be surprised if "Dr. " Gastrich claims he has a few "pet"
gays as friends. Most homophobes claim to have some.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 04:23:53 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <v9hut09slj8ipgq1gdktonuouc26ot6g64@4ax.com>, Jos
Flachs lept out of the bushes shouting:
I wouldn't be surprised if "Dr. " Gastrich claims he has a few "pet" gays
Talk about a double take.
I first read it as "has pet a few gays..."
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "lizzard woman" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 02:45:12 AM |
|
|
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kmDd.62286$gd.35968@twister.socal.rr.com...
| lizzard woman wrote:
| > "Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
| >> Doc Smartass wrote:
| >
| > (snip)
| >
| >> It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
| >> speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
| >
| > I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel
| > of you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom
| > to force your religious views on this matter on innocent,
| > unsuspecting people.
| >
| > The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people are
| > born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are doing
| > a horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays
| > correctly don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So
| > even though we are talking about a relatively small group of people,
| > it's still like you castigating your daughter for having the color
| > hair she happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
|
| This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
Why not? Have you studied it?
| I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that way at
| all.
Why not? Have you read any medical/scientific/psychological papers in top
shelf jouirnals on the issue?
| Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Well other than the fact (yes fact) that nobody would choose to be
persecuted like gays have been and continue to be, I can recall reading an
article in Science (a top shelf journal) that showed a statistically
significant difference in the size of some part of the brain in gay v.
straight men. That is not dispositive in itself but when you combine it
will all the real world evidence most people can see without any scientific
degree necessary, it becomes compelling.
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that homosexuality has a
physiological basis, would Christians then accept gays and not label their
behavior a sin?
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 06:11:38 AM |
|
|
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kmDd.62286$gd.35968@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y%lDd.62278$gd.33991@twister.socal.rr.com...
Doc Smartass wrote:
(snip)
It seems that you're saying Christians can't have the freedom of
speech to say homosexuality is a sin. Is this correct?
I think you have the freedom to say it though it is extremely cruel
of you to think it's alright to do so. You do NOT have the freedom
to force your religious views on this matter on innocent,
unsuspecting people.
The weight of the evidence is clearly on the side that gay people
are born gay. Thus when you say that you think it's a sin, you are
doing a horrible thing to the Christians gays. Non-Christian gays
correctly don't give a hoot if you think homosexuality is a sin. So
even though we are talking about a relatively small group of people,
it's still like you castigating your daughter for having the color
hair she happens to have. It's cruel and heartless.
This is one theory. However, I do not agree.
Why not? Have you studied it?
I think people choose to be gay. I don't think they're born that
way at all.
Why not? Have you read any medical/scientific/psychological papers
in top shelf jouirnals on the issue?
Do you have any proof for your assertion that they are born that way?
Well other than the fact (yes fact) that nobody would choose to be
persecuted like gays have been and continue to be, I can recall
reading an article in Science (a top shelf journal) that showed a
statistically significant difference in the size of some part of the
brain in gay v. straight men. That is not dispositive in itself but
when you combine it will all the real world evidence most people can
see without any scientific degree necessary, it becomes compelling.
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then accept
gays and not label their behavior a sin?
With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality being
genetic is anecdotal.
The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. See Romans 1. Therefore,
Christians will always affirm what the scriptures say; even when we are
jailed.
My pastor told us about the law in Canada against speaking against
homosexuality and calling it a sin. I didn't know it was happening here.
I'm not sure if this would qualify or not, though. Canada actually has a
law against calling homosexuality a sin and pastors are being jailed.
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
|
|
|
| User: "lizzard woman" |
|
| Title: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 03:21:21 PM |
|
|
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com...
| lizzard woman wrote:
(snip)
| > But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
| > homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then accept
| > gays and not label their behavior a sin?
|
| With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality being
| genetic is anecdotal.
|
| The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. See Romans 1. Therefore,
| Christians will always affirm what the scriptures say; even when we are
| jailed.
So if some day researchers show rigorously that homosexuality has a very
strong physiological/anatomical component, you will reject that in favor of
Bronze Age bigotry. Is that correct?
Would you change your tune if your daughter was gay? Or will you simply lie
about it like the Cheney's did?
Or is it you don't believe researchers will ever show that? A gap if you
will. Perhaps it will be like researchers have yet to "prove" evolution per
your past posts.
| My pastor told us about the law in Canada against speaking against
| homosexuality and calling it a sin. I didn't know it was happening here.
| I'm not sure if this would qualify or not, though. Canada actually has a
| law against calling homosexuality a sin and pastors are being jailed.
I'm a US citizen temporarily living in Canada for a few years. Despite the
overall similarities btw the two countries, I must say that the public
Catholic schools threw me for a loop when were few got here. Everyone's
taxes are supporting Catholic public schools. I'm in Calgary, the "buckle
of the Canadian bible belt." Leaving aside for the minute whether or not
it's even sporting to have two bible belts on one continent, I can confirm
there is a lot of offhand assumptions and use of religious language even in
the secular public school my daughters attend. And while the amount of
attempted shaming of my kids for being free thinkers is FAR less than it was
in Puerto Rico (which was off the hook), my kids have still run into it in
the almost 2 years we have lived here.
So I would say that here in the "buckle," the amount of religion foisted on
innocent unsuspecting people is bit more than in the states (at least
compared with NYC, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin where I've lived) but MUCH
less than Puerto Rico which is 95% Catholic and 100% assuming.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jason Gastrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 05:50:10 AM |
|
|
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
(snip)
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then
accept gays and not label their behavior a sin?
With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality
being genetic is anecdotal.
The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. See Romans 1.
Therefore, Christians will always affirm what the scriptures say;
even when we are jailed.
So if some day researchers show rigorously that homosexuality has a
very strong physiological/anatomical component, you will reject that
in favor of Bronze Age bigotry. Is that correct?
Would you change your tune if your daughter was gay? Or will you
simply lie about it like the Cheney's did?
Or is it you don't believe researchers will ever show that? A gap if
you will. Perhaps it will be like researchers have yet to "prove"
evolution per your past posts.
We can discuss this when pigs fly.
My pastor told us about the law in Canada against speaking against
homosexuality and calling it a sin. I didn't know it was happening
here. I'm not sure if this would qualify or not, though. Canada
actually has a law against calling homosexuality a sin and pastors
are being jailed.
I'm a US citizen temporarily living in Canada for a few years.
Despite the overall similarities btw the two countries, I must say
that the public Catholic schools threw me for a loop when were few
got here. Everyone's taxes are supporting Catholic public schools.
I'm in Calgary, the "buckle of the Canadian bible belt." Leaving
aside for the minute whether or not it's even sporting to have two
bible belts on one continent, I can confirm there is a lot of offhand
assumptions and use of religious language even in the secular public
school my daughters attend. And while the amount of attempted
shaming of my kids for being free thinkers is FAR less than it was in
Puerto Rico (which was off the hook), my kids have still run into it
in the almost 2 years we have lived here.
So I would say that here in the "buckle," the amount of religion
foisted on innocent unsuspecting people is bit more than in the
states (at least compared with NYC, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin
where I've lived) but MUCH less than Puerto Rico which is 95%
Catholic and 100% assuming.
Have you read in your news about pastors or Christians being jailed for
speaking against homosexuality?
Regards,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
.
|
|
|
| User: "lizzard woman" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 04:35:19 PM |
|
|
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mwKDd.63259$gd.20047@twister.socal.rr.com...
| lizzard woman wrote:
| > "Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com...
| >> lizzard woman wrote:
| >
| > (snip)
| >
| >>> But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
| >>> homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then
| >>> accept gays and not label their behavior a sin?
| >>
| >> With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality
| >> being genetic is anecdotal.
| >>
| >> The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. See Romans 1.
| >> Therefore, Christians will always affirm what the scriptures say;
| >> even when we are jailed.
| >
| > So if some day researchers show rigorously that homosexuality has a
| > very strong physiological/anatomical component, you will reject that
| > in favor of Bronze Age bigotry. Is that correct?
| >
| > Would you change your tune if your daughter was gay? Or will you
| > simply lie about it like the Cheney's did?
| >
| > Or is it you don't believe researchers will ever show that? A gap if
| > you will. Perhaps it will be like researchers have yet to "prove"
| > evolution per your past posts.
|
| We can discuss this when pigs fly.
This sort of attitude would correctly get you tossed out of an accredited
grad school program.
It would be one thing if you had actually read upon the topic in top shelf
journals. That isn't the case here, though.
If you had asked the Cheneys if they ever thought that one of their
daughters would be gay, they would have said the chances of that are equal
to the chances that pigs will fly I suspect.
You are wallowing in your ignorance.
| >> My pastor told us about the law in Canada against speaking against
| >> homosexuality and calling it a sin. I didn't know it was happening
| >> here. I'm not sure if this would qualify or not, though. Canada
| >> actually has a law against calling homosexuality a sin and pastors
| >> are being jailed.
| >
| > I'm a US citizen temporarily living in Canada for a few years.
| > Despite the overall similarities btw the two countries, I must say
| > that the public Catholic schools threw me for a loop when were few
| > got here. Everyone's taxes are supporting Catholic public schools.
| > I'm in Calgary, the "buckle of the Canadian bible belt." Leaving
| > aside for the minute whether or not it's even sporting to have two
| > bible belts on one continent, I can confirm there is a lot of offhand
| > assumptions and use of religious language even in the secular public
| > school my daughters attend. And while the amount of attempted
| > shaming of my kids for being free thinkers is FAR less than it was in
| > Puerto Rico (which was off the hook), my kids have still run into it
| > in the almost 2 years we have lived here.
| >
| > So I would say that here in the "buckle," the amount of religion
| > foisted on innocent unsuspecting people is bit more than in the
| > states (at least compared with NYC, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin
| > where I've lived) but MUCH less than Puerto Rico which is 95%
| > Catholic and 100% assuming.
|
| Have you read in your news about pastors or Christians being jailed for
| speaking against homosexuality?
What would you do if your daughter was gay and marched in a gay pride rally?
Would you be out there with bull horns?
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 07:32:25 PM |
|
|
I haven't seen anything in this thread indicating that Christians are
being arrested for "speaking out against homosexuality". I have seen
evidence that they are being arrested for minor crimes, for behavior
which is not necessary for getting their message out.
In any event, do you really believe that we *choose our desires? When I
was a child in a fundamentalist family, I was taught thet we *all had
"perverse" desires of various kinds. It was our *actions which are
worthy of being condemnded or praised, not our desires. That's the
definition of a temptation, isn't it? We want to do something (seduce
our neighbor's spouse, steal a wallet, lie for credit) but we know we
are not supposed to. So if I were still a Baptist, I would have no
trouble accepting a biological basis for being gay - it's got to be
either biolgical or environmental, or both. How can we choose to *want
something? Or not want it?
Are you seriously going to tell us that you could, by an act of will,
change your favorite flavor of ice cream? All you can *choose is
whether to eat it or not.
Of course, as a moral atheist, I don't give a damn what bedroom
behavior two or more adults do in private. I have no mythical god now
telling me I'm supposed to hate someone who is doing no harm.
Kermit
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 11:31:39 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <mwKDd.63259$gd.20047@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich lept out of the bushes shouting:
Have you read in your news about pastors or Christians being jailed for
speaking against homosexuality?
Nope. *Have read about them trying to provoke a riot and disobeying
authorities and being arrested for *that.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
10 Jan 2005 03:49:01 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:31:39 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <mwKDd.63259$gd.20047@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich lept out of the bushes shouting:
Have you read in your news about pastors or Christians being jailed for
speaking against homosexuality?
Nope. *Have read about them trying to provoke a riot and disobeying
authorities and being arrested for *that.
Of course, the pathetic sot won't ever acknowledge that. He is so
bloody transparent it isn't funny.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "David" |
|
| Title: Re: Modern science, Christianity.... at loggerheads?... was Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
08 Jan 2005 06:17:39 AM |
|
|
Jason Gastrich wrote:
lizzard woman wrote:
"Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com...
lizzard woman wrote:
(snip)
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then
accept gays and not label their behavior a sin?
With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality
being genetic is anecdotal.
The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. See Romans 1.
Therefore, Christians will always affirm what the scriptures say;
even when we are jailed.
So if some day researchers show rigorously that homosexuality has a
very strong physiological/anatomical component, you will reject
that
in favor of Bronze Age bigotry. Is that correct?
Would you change your tune if your daughter was gay? Or will you
simply lie about it like the Cheney's did?
Or is it you don't believe researchers will ever show that? A gap
if
you will. Perhaps it will be like researchers have yet to "prove"
evolution per your past posts.
We can discuss this when pigs fly.
In other words, you're going to avoid all of these questions, eh,
Jason?
Typical.
You're being asked to consider some hypotheticals, to be sure. The
evidence for a biological basis for homosexuality is not significant at
this point, though it seems to me that it will get there in good time -
there's a good beginning.
However, you also DO reject evolution based not on evidence or
knowledge - you have neither of those things - so you obviously aren't
open to anything that simply disagrees with your simplistic world view.
My pastor told us about the law in Canada against speaking against
homosexuality and calling it a sin. I didn't know it was
happening
here. I'm not sure if this would qualify or not, though. Canada
actually has a law against calling homosexuality a sin and pastors
are being jailed.
I'm a US citizen temporarily living in Canada for a few years.
Despite the overall similarities btw the two countries, I must say
that the public Catholic schools threw me for a loop when were few
got here. Everyone's taxes are supporting Catholic public schools.
I'm in Calgary, the "buckle of the Canadian bible belt." Leaving
aside for the minute whether or not it's even sporting to have two
bible belts on one continent, I can confirm there is a lot of
offhand
assumptions and use of religious language even in the secular
public
school my daughters attend. And while the amount of attempted
shaming of my kids for being free thinkers is FAR less than it was
in
Puerto Rico (which was off the hook), my kids have still run into
it
in the almost 2 years we have lived here.
So I would say that here in the "buckle," the amount of religion
foisted on innocent unsuspecting people is bit more than in the
states (at least compared with NYC, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin
where I've lived) but MUCH less than Puerto Rico which is 95%
Catholic and 100% assuming.
Have you read in your news about pastors or Christians being jailed
for
speaking against homosexuality?
Can you provide a citation, Jason?
And while you're at it, explain how many times you filed your complaint
against Durango Bill.
How many times was it rejected and why?
How many times have you filed a civil action acting as your own
attorney?
Who owns the copyright for the photo of Michael Newdow on your site?
For what images do you claim copyright on Durango Bill's site?
These and other questions await answers, Jason.
And they're not going away.
< snip self-righteous sig >
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| User: "Grinder" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 09:39:21 AM |
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With all due respect, the evidence you provided
for homosexuality being genetic is anecdotal.
If you are interested in the genetic basis of homosexuality, "the gay
gene" so to speak, I can recommend this book from a leading researcher
in the field:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684804468/103-3232582-8067038?v=glance
Also, here is an article that provides a number of references that
would be worth investigating:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/nyreview.html
Although homosexuality is in part determined by environment, I don't
believe that it is strictly a choice. Frankly I don't see the benefit
in being gay, and cannot conceive of any motivation to overcome
society's general aversion to behavior. Sincerely, why would anyone
*choose* to be gay?
It was a good question that lizzard woman asked:
But let's assume that some day researchers do
prove that homosexuality has a physiological basis,
would Christians then accept gays and not label
their behavior a sin?
Am I being presumptious in predicting your answer to be: no, it would
still be a sin even if homosexuality is entirely physiological?
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| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 08:17:43 AM |
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In article <uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason
Gastrich <usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...
lizzard woman wrote:
Well other than the fact (yes fact) that nobody would choose to be
persecuted like gays have been and continue to be, I can recall
reading an article in Science (a top shelf journal) that showed a
statistically significant difference in the size of some part of the
brain in gay v. straight men. That is not dispositive in itself but
when you combine it will all the real world evidence most people can
see without any scientific degree necessary, it becomes compelling.
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that
homosexuality has a physiological basis, would Christians then accept
gays and not label their behavior a sin?
With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality being
genetic is anecdotal.
What? Jason, do you understand what "anecdotal" means? A study is
not anecdotal. It's the opposite. Anecdotal is when you take one
or two examples and try to pass them off as representative of the
whole. For example, if someone were to argue that a few christian
protesters were arrested at a rally in Philadelphia showed that
christians were being prosecuted in the entire U.S., that would
be anecdotal.
--
Greg
----
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Christians Arrested at Gay Rally |
07 Jan 2005 12:50:30 PM |
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In our last episode
<MPG.1c4801a28dc5dfc6989681@news.comcast.giganews.com>, Gregory A Greenman
lept out of the bushes shouting:
In article <uKpDd.62328$gd.12904@twister.socal.rr.com>, Jason Gastrich
<usenetspam1@yahoo.com> declared...
lizzard woman wrote:
Well other than the fact (yes fact) that nobody would choose to be
persecuted like gays have been and continue to be, I can recall
reading an article in Science (a top shelf journal) that showed a
statistically significant difference in the size of some part of the
brain in gay v. straight men. That is not dispositive in itself but
when you combine it will all the real world evidence most people can
see without any scientific degree necessary, it becomes compelling.
But let's assume that some day researchers do prove that homosexuality
has a physiological basis, would Christians then accept gays and not
label their behavior a sin?
With all due respect, the evidence you provided for homosexuality being
genetic is anecdotal.
What? Jason, do you understand what "anecdotal" means? A study is not
anecdotal. It's the opposite. Anecdotal is when you take one or two
examples and try to pass them off as representative of the whole. For
example, if someone were to argue that a few christian protesters were
arrested at a rally in Philadelphia showed that christians were being
prosecuted in the entire U.S., that would be anecdotal.
I'm not sure Gastrich even knows what the word means.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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