| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kenny Leong" |
| Date: |
06 Apr 2005 03:21:54 AM |
| Object: |
christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
06 Apr 2005 02:08:46 PM |
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
.
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 01:12:57 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 08:16:21 AM |
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"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 03:01:41 PM |
|
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504070016.151eafd@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years. There is no before or after for God, just an ever present now.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint. Your
ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of these
other dimensions.
.
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| User: "Fester" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 11:02:37 PM |
|
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:115aj08ingk6ce6@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504070016.151eafd@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by
whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years. There is no before or after for God, just an ever present now.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint. Your
ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of
these
other dimensions.
Oh you're one of those. The kind who invokes junk science when it serves
your purpose, but rejects real science that's inconvenient to your
philosophy.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 12:58:15 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<115aj08ingk6ce6@corp.supernews.com>...
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years. There is no before or after for God, just an ever present now.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint. Your
ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of these
other dimensions.
Randy.... you truly have a serious case of mental block. God
interacted with the universe in a sequence of events, as described in
the bible. The very act of interacting with the universe and doing
something to it ... such as to create it....means that your 'god'
doesn't escape time. The fact that your god had to go on holidays and
then come back later in the future to judge you to go to hell...means
that your god is bound by time. The fact that your god said let there
be this...and let there be that...in a sequence of events...means that
he/she/it is bounded by time. If you don't even believe your own
bible, which clearly says that god took a certain amount of time to
create the earth etc, then what the hell are you going to believe
Randy? If you want to play on definitions from the bible...then do you
want to argue what 'days' means in the bible? Do you want to argue
what 'earth' means in the bible? Do you want to argue what each
individual word in the bible means Randy?
Kenny
.
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| User: "k_ate" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 06:17:18 AM |
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Kenny Leong wrote:
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<115aj08ingk6ce6@corp.supernews.com>...
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been
going on
for years. There is no before or after for God, just an ever
present now.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint.
Your
ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside
our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
Randy.... you truly have a serious case of mental block. God
interacted with the universe in a sequence of events, as described in
the bible. The very act of interacting with the universe and doing
something to it ... such as to create it....means that your 'god'
doesn't escape time. The fact that your god had to go on holidays and
then come back later in the future to judge you to go to hell...means
that your god is bound by time. The fact that your god said let there
be this...and let there be that...in a sequence of events...means
that
he/she/it is bounded by time. If you don't even believe your own
bible, which clearly says that god took a certain amount of time to
create the earth etc, then what the hell are you going to believe
Randy? If you want to play on definitions from the bible...then do
you
want to argue what 'days' means in the bible? Do you want to argue
what 'earth' means in the bible? Do you want to argue what each
individual word in the bible means Randy?
Kenny
how can mortals understand the meaning of eternity?
kate
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 01:32:47 PM |
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"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1112941038.645196.125630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
how can mortals understand the meaning of eternity?
kate
Maybe in the same way that the word 'eternity' is defined in the dictionary?
Kenny
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| User: "k_ate" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 07:38:15 PM |
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Kenny Leong wrote:
"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1112941038.645196.125630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
how can mortals understand the meaning of eternity?
kate
Maybe in the same way that the word 'eternity' is defined in the
dictionary?
Kenny
only theoretical(sp?) here, but the dictionary was written by other
non-eternal beings, so how can they define it? a thing can only be
defined or explained in relation to what is known by the one defining
it. likewise it can only be understood in relation to what is known by
the one trying to understand it.
kate
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
09 Apr 2005 02:35:38 AM |
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"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1112989095.926358.233480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
Kenny Leong wrote:
"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1112941038.645196.125630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
how can mortals understand the meaning of eternity?
kate
Maybe in the same way that the word 'eternity' is defined in the
dictionary?
Kenny
only theoretical(sp?) here, but the dictionary was written by other
non-eternal beings, so how can they define it? a thing can only be
defined or explained in relation to what is known by the one defining
it. likewise it can only be understood in relation to what is known by
the one trying to understand it.
kate
Oh I see...so does that mean that none of us people can have a
coherent conversation among ourselves...because we can't agree upon,
or understand what we're all saying to each other?
Kenny
.
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| User: "k_ate" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
10 Apr 2005 02:53:52 AM |
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Kenny Leong wrote:
"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1112989095.926358.233480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
Kenny Leong wrote:
"k_ate" <bellecate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1112941038.645196.125630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
how can mortals understand the meaning of eternity?
kate
Maybe in the same way that the word 'eternity' is defined in the
dictionary?
Kenny
only theoretical(sp?) here, but the dictionary was written by
other
non-eternal beings, so how can they define it? a thing can only be
defined or explained in relation to what is known by the one
defining
it. likewise it can only be understood in relation to what is known
by
the one trying to understand it.
kate
Oh I see...so does that mean that none of us people can have a
coherent conversation among ourselves...because we can't agree upon,
or understand what we're all saying to each other?
Kenny
of course not, as long as we all are speaking the same language. :)
but our understanding is certainly colored by our experiences.
kate
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| User: "pan" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 12:39:14 AM |
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:01:41 -0700, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com>
wrote:
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504070016.151eafd@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years. There is no before or after for God, just an ever present now.
But this means that nothing can be unexpected or unanticipated to
'God' . So 'God' cannot really be disappointed with some part of
'His' creation.
Nor can this 'God' make decisions, i.e. choose to do one thing and
not another (This implies thinking in a linear fashion. Which isn't
possible for a 'Being' which only exists in one single eternal
moment.)
God would not be choosing to create things.
At best, you could say: Things simply exist (the way they are)
because of the type of 'God' that exists.
This doesn't sound very much like the Judeo/Christian 'God'.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint.
Why would this 'God' view us as doing things "freely", If he can also
see the *exact* reasons/influences for our behavior?
pan
Your ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of these
other dimensions.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 01:55:25 PM |
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pan <couchslothsnake--remove_serpent--@netzero.com> wrote in message news:<0qhb515gc1ka253cbnot9of3ut62aumknp@4ax.com>...
But this means that nothing can be unexpected or unanticipated to
'God' . So 'God' cannot really be disappointed with some part of
'His' creation.
That's EXACTLY right. The christian god, said by christians to be
all-knowing and perfect planning...could not be disappointed or angry
about the product, because every single mechanical action for the
product must have been known and planned perfectly before any product
was even made. If not, then the christian god wouldn't be all-knowing
and wouldn't be a perfect planner/designer...in which case wouldn't be
the christian god as defined....ie fatal contradiction.
Nor can this 'God' make decisions, i.e. choose to do one thing and
not another (This implies thinking in a linear fashion. Which isn't
True...because a all-knowing god 'should' theoretically know every
single thing about itself...including exactly what it will do next,
and what it will do exactly for the entire future. So it's got no
degree of freedom ... ie basically a movie.
possible for a 'Being' which only exists in one single eternal
moment.)
God would not be choosing to create things.
At best, you could say: Things simply exist (the way they are)
because of the type of 'God' that exists.
This doesn't sound very much like the Judeo/Christian 'God'.
The teachings about the christian god is flawed because an
all-knowing, perfect planning/designing 'god' can't create a product
that will behave differently (in a mechanical fashion) than what god
knew and planned before the product was even hanging about. This means
no free-will in the product...which is contradictory to the christian
belief of free will in the product. Free will in the product is fine
by me...but this means that the christian god must not be all-knowing,
and must not be a perfect planner/designer. Thus the god as described
by christians does not exist.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint.
Why would this 'God' view us as doing things "freely", If he can also
see the *exact* reasons/influences for our behavior?
That's where Randy fails in his thinking. He talks about the product
AFTER it has been created. He is too frightened to focus on the
product BEFORE it had been created. And before the product was
created, his god already knew AND planned perfectly every single
future mechanical action for the product. Thus Randy should
theoretically be a mindless robot. Actually...I have a feeling that
Randy really is a mindless robot.
pan
Kenny
------
Your ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of these
other dimensions.
Event horizons Randy? Sounds like you've been watching too much
stargate sg1/wing commander/deep space 9/ etc...
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 06:32:39 PM |
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504080555.12ec5d96@posting.google.com...
pan <couchslothsnake--remove_serpent--@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:<0qhb515gc1ka253cbnot9of3ut62aumknp@4ax.com>...
But this means that nothing can be unexpected or unanticipated to
'God' . So 'God' cannot really be disappointed with some part of
'His' creation.
That's EXACTLY right. The christian god, said by christians to be
all-knowing and perfect planning...could not be disappointed or angry
about the product, because every single mechanical action for the
product must have been known and planned perfectly before any product
was even made. If not, then the christian god wouldn't be all-knowing
and wouldn't be a perfect planner/designer...in which case wouldn't be
the christian god as defined....ie fatal contradiction.
Nor can this 'God' make decisions, i.e. choose to do one thing and
not another (This implies thinking in a linear fashion. Which isn't
True...because a all-knowing god 'should' theoretically know every
single thing about itself...including exactly what it will do next,
and what it will do exactly for the entire future. So it's got no
degree of freedom ... ie basically a movie.
possible for a 'Being' which only exists in one single eternal
moment.)
God would not be choosing to create things.
At best, you could say: Things simply exist (the way they are)
because of the type of 'God' that exists.
This doesn't sound very much like the Judeo/Christian 'God'.
The teachings about the christian god is flawed because an
all-knowing, perfect planning/designing 'god' can't create a product
that will behave differently (in a mechanical fashion) than what god
knew and planned before the product was even hanging about. This means
no free-will in the product...which is contradictory to the christian
belief of free will in the product. Free will in the product is fine
by me...but this means that the christian god must not be all-knowing,
and must not be a perfect planner/designer. Thus the god as described
by christians does not exist.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint.
Why would this 'God' view us as doing things "freely", If he can also
see the *exact* reasons/influences for our behavior?
That's where Randy fails in his thinking. He talks about the product
AFTER it has been created. He is too frightened to focus on the
product BEFORE it had been created. And before the product was
created, his god already knew AND planned perfectly every single
future mechanical action for the product. Thus Randy should
theoretically be a mindless robot. Actually...I have a feeling that
Randy really is a mindless robot.
Kenny, you should not lie, I dont care at all if it is before or after
anything is produced by God. God gave us freewill and he knows every single
thought or action of the freewill he gave us before we even existed. It
makes no difference, God is not a temporal material being, he is outside
time. The only mindless numg brain here is yours, sorry you just cant get
it.
God knows and determines all things from outside time, everything possible
action was in view to hime before anything existed and *cannot change*
whether it was a determined event like physical law he created or freewill
moral acts that he allows. It cannot change not because God forces it but
because he cant be wrong about what he knows will freely come to pass.
------
Your ignorance of christian theology or even current dimension theory
is
critical. Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge of
these
other dimensions.
Event horizons Randy? Sounds like you've been watching too much
stargate sg1/wing commander/deep space 9/ etc...
No, just paying attention to current dimension theory by major physicists.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
09 Apr 2005 01:47:58 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<115djnrl2v8md9@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504080555.12ec5d96@posting.google.com...
That's where Randy fails in his thinking. He talks about the product
AFTER it has been created. He is too frightened to focus on the
product BEFORE it had been created. And before the product was
created, his god already knew AND planned perfectly every single
future mechanical action for the product. Thus Randy should
theoretically be a mindless robot. Actually...I have a feeling that
Randy really is a mindless robot.
Kenny, you should not lie, I dont care at all if it is before or after
anything is produced by God. God gave us freewill and he knows every single
thought or action of the freewill he gave us before we even existed. It
makes no difference, God is not a temporal material being, he is outside
time. The only mindless numg brain here is yours, sorry you just cant get
it.
Randy...don't lie. Oh..you don't care if anything is before or after
anything is produced by god? I see...so you want to exclude all
important evidence and information that leaves you in the water.
You're strange Randy.
The bible didn't say that god is outside of time Randy. Where does it
say that? You just made that up didn't you? I already told you that
the bible tells the story of god doing things as a sequence of
events...eg see genesis. The bible refers to what god did ... from
god's viewpoint. So obviously god is not outside of time, you dummy.
No Randy...you're the real mindless robot here. In your sentence, you
said...
'god gave us freewill and knows every single thought or action of the
freewill he gave us before we even existed.'
Randy...you dummy...your god actually judges you on your physical
actions. So basically, if you had no arms or legs to do anything, your
will (whether it be free or not) would be meaningless.
Anyway, you appear to be VERY AFRAID to simply focus on
mechanical/physical ACTION alone. Are you too afraid to admit that
your 'god' knew every single future MECHANICAL ACTION/MOVEMENT for
his/her/its product BEFORE god even created that product? There's
nothing at all wrong with this question. You're a scared little
chicken because you know that you've been beaten soundly.
God knows and determines all things from outside time, everything possible
action was in view to hime before anything existed and *cannot change*
whether it was a determined event like physical law he created or freewill
moral acts that he allows. It cannot change not because God forces it but
because he cant be wrong about what he knows will freely come to pass.
What you said in the above makes you sound like a raving lunatic. If
god knew everything, and yet god is supposed to be a perfect
planner/designer....then it is obvious that god must plan everything
perfectly. And one fundamental thing that must have been perfectly
planned is mechanical action. Thus it is completely to fair to assume
that god NOT ONLY 'could'....but 'DID' plan every single future
mechanical action for his/her/its product.
So Randy.... are you too cowardly to admit that god PLANNED perfectly
every single one of your mechanical actions before anything was even
created? If you don't admit this, then it obviously means that you
BELIEVE that your god is NOT a perfect planner/designer - and thus
your god, as described in the bible, doesn't exist).
So which is it Randy? Your god planned every single one of your
mechanical actions? Or your god did NOT plan every single one of your
mechanical actions? Which is it? Go ahead and make mah
deeeaaaaaaaaYYYYYYYY!
Kenny
Kenny
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
10 Apr 2005 02:49:56 AM |
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Randy Story wrote:
'.
The teachings about the christian god is flawed because an
all-knowing, perfect planning/designing 'god' can't create a product
that will behave differently (in a mechanical fashion) than what god
knew and planned before the product was even hanging about. This means
no free-will in the product...which is contradictory to the christian
belief of free will in the product. Free will in the product is fine
by me...but this means that the christian god must not be all-knowing,
and must not be a perfect planner/designer. Thus the god as described
by christians does not exist.
All that we will freely do is already in view from Gods standpoint.
Kenny, you should not lie, I dont care at all if it is before or after
anything is produced by God. God gave us freewill and he knows every
single thought or action of the freewill he gave us before we even
existed. It makes no difference, God is not a temporal material being, he
is outside time. The only mindless numg brain here is yours, sorry you
just cant get it.
The one who "doesn't get it" is you.
If god is omnisceint, and he creates all, he knows all he will create
in the finest detail. There can be no free will, even in principle.
If god contemplates creating a world, he will know all that will happen.
If he does not want that to happen, he has teh option at that point
of creating aniother world where things happen to his liking.
Everything that does happen then, is in essence planned and allowed by
god. He decides if that world is to happen as it does.
Not a single thing we do or think is not known to such
a god, and that god then decided what will happen in the finest,
smallest details to the limits of physics in this world.
The big thing to note, which you refuse to do so, being irrational,
is not that god creates a world and it unfolds with his full knowledge of
future events. But that he creates each future event in the smallest
detail, and has a choice of all such fine details.
Indeed, he not only has a choice, but cannot avoid making all choices.
Each and every even then is created by god in its finest, most miniscule,
all inclusive details.
Free will with a creator god that is also omniscient cannot
exist, even in principle.
Since you have decided to abandon, facts, reason, rationality, all
in name aof a totally stupid and impossible myth, you have become
willfully stupid.
The greatest crime a thinking being can commit, because
any and all other crimes can arise from willful stupidity.
You have lost this devbate because you are simply wrong.
And this is why christianity is evil. Because it can only exist
when people are either naive and ignorant, or become willfully ignorant
and stop thinking and refuse to be rational in name of a deeply stupid
bronze age myth.
God knows and determines all things from outside time, everything possible
action was in view to hime before anything existed and *cannot change*
whether it was a determined event like physical law he created or freewill
moral acts that he allows. It cannot change not because God forces it but
because he cant be wrong about what he knows will freely come to pass.
If god is outside time, it makes things worse.
Since all is a Big Now, all is, now, there is
no real past, no future, each point of space and time
in te Big Now has also all of gods interactions with that point of
space/time in teh Big Now. All is, ioncluding all god does.
he has no free will either. We are all caught in an unchanging,
unchangable Big Now, like flies frozen forever in amber.
You simply refuse to reason. I have pointed this out to you a number of
times now and you refuse to reason, be rational, to think.
This is why religion is evil.
It creates willfully stupid fools like you and encourages people
to abandon reason.
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 04:10:07 PM |
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Randy Story wrote:
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504070016.151eafd@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years.
Outside of time, space and existence !
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 12:51:54 AM |
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Jez wrote:
Randy Story wrote:
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504070016.151eafd@posting.google.com...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<tO%4e.26716$JL2.884866@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Ok, you'll have to explain this one. If our decisions are all
pre-determined then they are not free. They are constrained by whatever
mechanism was built into us. If your big bud "knew" what each of us in
every generation would do then you are telling me that we are simply
mechanical robots without free will.
The only problem here is .... Randy himself. He's had a mental block
on this group for YEARS. He's had this amazing inability to understand
that pre-determined physical actions and decisions in a product/object
directly implies the absence of free-will in that product/object.
Interestingly, Randy seems afraid to answer my simple questions.
Kenny
Your attempts at understaning God who is outside *time* has been going on
for years.
Outside of time, space and existence !
The problem is, that dooms god.
If there is no time for god, if to god, time
is just one big now he sees the entirety of,
then each smallest unit of time/space has its contents,
its matter, its energy, its dimensions and all
its connections to all else. Including any and all god's
interactions with all of everything in the Big Now.
All is. It always was, and always will be the Big Now.
God is thus frozen in the Big Now, nothing can change
for god or anything else. God has no free will, we have
no free will, all that was, is, and will be is right now.
And can never change.
Story has had this explained to him more than once.
he simply refuses, will not, reason. He will not think,
it is willful irrationality.
--
When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 07:54:45 PM |
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Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
--Billy
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
08 Apr 2005 11:04:38 PM |
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"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
No it blocks us from any knowledge on our own, God can override any law or
dimension he created to reveal to us his truth.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
10 Apr 2005 08:11:57 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<115e3ltb02r0d52@corp.supernews.com>...
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
No it blocks us from any knowledge on our own, God can override any law or
dimension he created to reveal to us his truth.
Irrelevant....you must consider the condition BEFORE the product
(people etc) was even created. So before god created any product ...
you Randy, must say 'true' or 'false' to the question .... BEFORE god
created any product, and if god is all-knowing, and is a perfect
designer, then IS IT TRUE OR FALSE that your god planned every single
one of your future mechanical actions?
Provide one answer, either TRUE or FALSE. Do not write anything else.
The question is very straight forward....so even a moron like you can
understand it to provide an answer. Go ahead Randy.... is the answer
true? Or false? If you can't come up with just one answer (either
true, or false), then we'll assume that you're a nutcase and you
aren't capable of coherent discussions.
Kenny
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
11 Apr 2005 12:25:00 AM |
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504101211.447b1867@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<115e3ltb02r0d52@corp.supernews.com>...
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
No it blocks us from any knowledge on our own, God can override any law
or
dimension he created to reveal to us his truth.
Irrelevant....you must consider the condition BEFORE the product
(people etc) was even created. So before god created any product ...
you Randy, must say 'true' or 'false' to the question .... BEFORE god
created any product, and if god is all-knowing, and is a perfect
designer, then IS IT TRUE OR FALSE that your god planned every single
one of your future mechanical actions?
Provide one answer, either TRUE or FALSE. Do not write anything else.
The question is very straight forward....so even a moron like you can
understand it to provide an answer. Go ahead Randy.... is the answer
true? Or false? If you can't come up with just one answer (either
true, or false), then we'll assume that you're a nutcase and you
aren't capable of coherent discussions.
Kenny
Your stupid lawyer tactics are reprehensible. the answer is TRUE, he planned
that every single as you call it mechanical thought or action would be
totally free for me. thank you Kenny!
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
11 Apr 2005 07:45:33 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<115jh4jgdvlqs1b@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504101211.447b1867@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<115e3ltb02r0d52@corp.supernews.com>...
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
No it blocks us from any knowledge on our own, God can override any law
or
dimension he created to reveal to us his truth.
Irrelevant....you must consider the condition BEFORE the product
(people etc) was even created. So before god created any product ...
you Randy, must say 'true' or 'false' to the question .... BEFORE god
created any product, and if god is all-knowing, and is a perfect
designer, then IS IT TRUE OR FALSE that your god planned every single
one of your future mechanical actions?
Provide one answer, either TRUE or FALSE. Do not write anything else.
The question is very straight forward....so even a moron like you can
understand it to provide an answer. Go ahead Randy.... is the answer
true? Or false? If you can't come up with just one answer (either
true, or false), then we'll assume that you're a nutcase and you
aren't capable of coherent discussions.
Kenny
Your stupid lawyer tactics are reprehensible. the answer is TRUE, he planned
that every single as you call it mechanical thought or action would be
totally free for me. thank you Kenny!
That's not what I asked you, you manipulating clown. You better go
back to school and learn to read Randy.
Kenny
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
10 Apr 2005 08:27:46 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<115e3ltb02r0d52@corp.supernews.com>...
"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
No it blocks us from any knowledge on our own, God can override any law or
dimension he created to reveal to us his truth.
The only thing that's been overidden here is your ability to think rationally.
Kenny
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
09 Apr 2005 02:32:25 AM |
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"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:<1112990085.701609.207720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Randy Story wrote:
Other dimensions are clearly known to exist & are outside our
materialist experience, event horizons block any possible knowledge
of these
other dimensions.
You just contradicted yourself. If knowledge is blocked, we don't know
about them.
--Billy
That's because Randy made it all up. That's his specialty....ignores
what is important, and doesn't mind to introduce useless
information...or whatever warped ideas that he can come up with in his
head.
Kenny
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
06 Apr 2005 08:42:58 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
Randy....I see that you're too scared or frightened to answer the
questions. I'm asking you WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE for having those future
mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED 'before' the product was even
created? I also gave a side note, which reminds you that the product
wasn't created yet and thus was NOT YET around to make ANY decisions.
Anyway, I know that you haven't got the guts to answer the question
Randy hehe
Kenny
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
06 Apr 2005 09:29:28 PM |
|
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504061242.1e53e763@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
Randy....I see that you're too scared or frightened to answer the
questions. I'm asking you WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE for having those future
mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED 'before' the product was even
created? I also gave a side note, which reminds you that the product
wasn't created yet and thus was NOT YET around to make ANY decisions.
Anyway, I know that you haven't got the guts to answer the question
Randy hehe
Kenny
I've replied before. I dont care if any product was yet created or not. My
answer covers it all. God knew & determined *everything* before *anything*
was actually created because he knew and determined exactly how I would use
my free will decisions & actions.
.
|
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 01:24:42 AM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:1158lbabv4msr4d@corp.supernews.com:
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504061242.1e53e763@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below
....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical
action/movement for the 'future' universe that would eventually
be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for
god's PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people
in it) BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was
RESPONSIBLE for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and
DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument.
The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus
it was *determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and
actions we would ever decide & performed.
Randy....I see that you're too scared or frightened to answer the
questions. I'm asking you WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE for having those future
mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED 'before' the product was even
created? I also gave a side note, which reminds you that the product
wasn't created yet and thus was NOT YET around to make ANY decisions.
Anyway, I know that you haven't got the guts to answer the question
Randy hehe
Kenny
I've replied before. I dont care if any product was yet created or
not. My answer covers it all. God knew & determined *everything*
before *anything* was actually created because he knew and determined
exactly how I would use my free will decisions & actions.
Bzzzzt. Your answer is self contradictory. Ergo not an answer.
LK.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 04:51:49 AM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<1158lbabv4msr4d@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504061242.1e53e763@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below ....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we would
ever decide & performed.
Randy....I see that you're too scared or frightened to answer the
questions. I'm asking you WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE for having those future
mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED 'before' the product was even
created? I also gave a side note, which reminds you that the product
wasn't created yet and thus was NOT YET around to make ANY decisions.
Anyway, I know that you haven't got the guts to answer the question
Randy hehe
Kenny
I've replied before. I dont care if any product was yet created or not. My
answer covers it all. God knew & determined *everything* before *anything*
was actually created because he knew and determined exactly how I would use
my free will decisions & actions.
Randy ... you didn't answer the question because you're too afraid to.
If you're not afraid...then go ahead...and answer it.
I said...
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Are you brave enough to answer 1) god? ...or 2) the product?
Or you just don't know how to read? Just answer this .... Before the
product was created by god, who was responsible for having the future
MECHANICAL actions of the product KNOWN AND DETERMINED?
Kenny
.
|
|
|
| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: christians...please answer these questions...if you dare |
07 Apr 2005 02:55:36 PM |
|
|
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504062051.6cd86776@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<1158lbabv4msr4d@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504061242.1e53e763@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<1157rh024lbdg80@corp.supernews.com>...
"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0504051921.79be351a@posting.google.com...
To all the christians visiting this group....
Please answer these questions after you read what you see below
.....
To the christians out there ... you have been taught that god is
all-knowing, and is a perfect planner, and a perfect designer.
Now....consider the case when god had NOT yet made the
universe....that is...consider the case when god had NOT created
heaven, earth, people etc. Under this considered condition:
DO YOU BELIEVE that god knew EVERY SINGLE mechanical
action/movement
for the 'future' universe that would eventually be created by god?
Please answer ... '1) yes'... or '2) no'.
If you answered 'yes', then please answer the next question.
The question is:
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for
god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was
RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Note that in the above question....the product wasn't created
yet...and thus was not yet around to make any decisions.
Kenny
As usual Kenny you keep trying to refine your ignorant argument. The
final
simple answer is God before bringing us all to be *knew* and thus it
was
*determined* every free ( yes I said free) decision and actions we
would
ever decide & performed.
Randy....I see that you're too scared or frightened to answer the
questions. I'm asking you WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE for having those future
mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED 'before' the product was even
created? I also gave a side note, which reminds you that the product
wasn't created yet and thus was NOT YET around to make ANY decisions.
Anyway, I know that you haven't got the guts to answer the question
Randy hehe
Kenny
I've replied before. I dont care if any product was yet created or not.
My
answer covers it all. God knew & determined *everything* before
*anything*
was actually created because he knew and determined exactly how I would
use
my free will decisions & actions.
Randy ... you didn't answer the question because you're too afraid to.
If you're not afraid...then go ahead...and answer it.
I said...
IF god knew every single future mechanical action/movement for
god's
PRODUCT (that is, the product is the universe with people in it)
BEFORE the PRODUCT was even created by god, THEN WHO was
RESPONSIBLE
for having those future mechanical actions KNOWN and DETERMINED?
Please answer ...choose either '1) god' or '2) the product'
Are you brave enough to answer 1) god? ...or 2) the product?
Or you just don't know how to read? Just answer this .... Before the
product was created by god, who was responsible for having the future
MECHANICAL actions of the product KNOWN AND DETERMINED?
Kenny
I answered you before, cant you read. God was responsible for allowing us
the freedom to choose. he knew all before we chose. Your mechnical actions
usage is simply a way to use a term that seems as though we are robots of
some type, it is a false anology. Wise up!!
.
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