| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Les Hellawell" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2006 02:00:09 PM |
| Object: |
Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 10:13:38 AM |
|
|
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
This is the first I have heard of this. The link you gave is not working
right now and will have to try again later.
I had problems finding info about that head-banging bit on the net as well.
pierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 04:35:48 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:38 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
This is the first I have heard of this. The link you gave is not working
right now and will have to try again later.
I have just clicked the copy link you quoted above and it worked
Try Google with "Santos dos Croques" in the search engine, I
got the above hit that way.
I had problems finding info about that head-banging bit on the net as well.
I first discovered it when researching Santiago so I knew what
to expect when I got there and found it on www.spain.info. Enter
Santiago in the "What are you looking for" box then select
"Santiago de Compostela". You will find a rather good pdf guide
to the city that mentions the statue.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 05:03:51 PM |
|
|
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:7bgqt1drs609pl9gkatb349vp2t644v23j@4ax.com:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:38 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
This is the first I have heard of this. The link you gave is not
working right now and will have to try again later.
I have just clicked the copy link you quoted above and it worked
Try Google with "Santos dos Croques" in the search engine, I
got the above hit that way.
I had problems finding info about that head-banging bit on the net as
well.
I first discovered it when researching Santiago so I knew what
to expect when I got there and found it on www.spain.info. Enter
Santiago in the "What are you looking for" box then select
"Santiago de Compostela". You will find a rather good pdf guide
to the city that mentions the statue.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I did a differnt search and got about 30 hits. I used "Santo dos Croques
head" as a search and limited it to english pages.
This is one of those "Superstions" that some Catholics have. It is
similar to rubbing Abe Lincoln's nose for good luck. To be honest I had
never heard of this head banging bit before and it would appear to be a
semi-local thing.
Since the Catholics have so many weird customs like that, what is one
more? Here are some examples: A plastic St. Christopher on the dash
board will protect you when driving. Put a plastic Mary up there too and
you are damn near invincible or some such nonsense. Another good one is
that if you are wearing a Miraculous Medal and need a miracle to save your
life, you will get one. The list goes on and on.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
30 Jan 2006 05:28:56 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:03:51 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:7bgqt1drs609pl9gkatb349vp2t644v23j@4ax.com:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:38 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
This is the first I have heard of this. The link you gave is not
working right now and will have to try again later.
I have just clicked the copy link you quoted above and it worked
Try Google with "Santos dos Croques" in the search engine, I
got the above hit that way.
I had problems finding info about that head-banging bit on the net as
well.
I first discovered it when researching Santiago so I knew what
to expect when I got there and found it on www.spain.info. Enter
Santiago in the "What are you looking for" box then select
"Santiago de Compostela". You will find a rather good pdf guide
to the city that mentions the statue.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I did a differnt search and got about 30 hits. I used "Santo dos Croques
head" as a search and limited it to english pages.
This is one of those "Superstions" that some Catholics have. It is
similar to rubbing Abe Lincoln's nose for good luck. To be honest I had
never heard of this head banging bit before and it would appear to be a
semi-local thing.
Since the Catholics have so many weird customs like that, what is one
more? Here are some examples: A plastic St. Christopher on the dash
board will protect you when driving. Put a plastic Mary up there too and
you are damn near invincible or some such nonsense. Another good one is
that if you are wearing a Miraculous Medal and need a miracle to save your
life, you will get one. The list goes on and on.
We all know about 'Indulgences' of course this was the unwitting cause
of much warfare which began when Luther posted his condemnation of
the practise.
When in Rome I visted Scala Santa a curious little church near the
Cathedral of Rome where I understand the Pope sits as Archbishop
(no not St. Peters, that is not technically in Rome)
The church consists of a flight of stairs reputedly to have been the
steps Christ ascended for his confrontation with Pilate. The steps
themselves are actually covered by wooden steps so you cannot
see them. It is quite a moving and pathetic sight to see catholics
(mainly women) crawling up these steps to the top on their knees
where there is a little shrine.
Later, in the church gift shop I saw somebody purchase a crucifix.
The nun who sold it waved her arms over this little bit of stamped
silver and said some kind of Holy magic incantation as she held it,
then signed a little certificate to attest she had done it. All done
very reverently of course in the best of possible taste. Presumably
she had turned it into some kind of magic talisman. No doubt she
also blessed the holy cash that went into the Holy till to fill the
Holy coffers. Thus she carries out 'Gods Holy works' and is
her self blessed and Holy. Will they make her a Saint a
few years after she dies perhaps for performing this miracle many
times a day?
Perhaps they will erect a statue of her outside the church and
she will become "The Holy mother of the cruicifix" and
catholics will place their just bought silver plated copper crucifixes
in her Holy Stone hands to imbue them with her same magic
miracle making powers.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 01:32:37 AM |
|
|
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:8dsrt1tpq2vt3v8v74tesuteo4ebd4fs6a@4ax.com:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:03:51 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:7bgqt1drs609pl9gkatb349vp2t644v23j@4ax.com:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:38 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
This is the first I have heard of this. The link you gave is not
working right now and will have to try again later.
I have just clicked the copy link you quoted above and it worked
Try Google with "Santos dos Croques" in the search engine, I
got the above hit that way.
I had problems finding info about that head-banging bit on the net as
well.
I first discovered it when researching Santiago so I knew what
to expect when I got there and found it on www.spain.info. Enter
Santiago in the "What are you looking for" box then select
"Santiago de Compostela". You will find a rather good pdf guide
to the city that mentions the statue.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I did a differnt search and got about 30 hits. I used "Santo dos
Croques head" as a search and limited it to english pages.
This is one of those "Superstions" that some Catholics have. It is
similar to rubbing Abe Lincoln's nose for good luck. To be honest I had
never heard of this head banging bit before and it would appear to be a
semi-local thing.
Since the Catholics have so many weird customs like that, what is one
more? Here are some examples: A plastic St. Christopher on the dash
board will protect you when driving. Put a plastic Mary up there too
and you are damn near invincible or some such nonsense. Another good
one is that if you are wearing a Miraculous Medal and need a miracle to
save your life, you will get one. The list goes on and on.
We all know about 'Indulgences' of course this was the unwitting cause
of much warfare which began when Luther posted his condemnation of
the practise.
When in Rome I visted Scala Santa a curious little church near the
Cathedral of Rome where I understand the Pope sits as Archbishop
(no not St. Peters, that is not technically in Rome)
The church consists of a flight of stairs reputedly to have been the
steps Christ ascended for his confrontation with Pilate. The steps
themselves are actually covered by wooden steps so you cannot
see them. It is quite a moving and pathetic sight to see catholics
(mainly women) crawling up these steps to the top on their knees
where there is a little shrine.
Later, in the church gift shop I saw somebody purchase a crucifix.
The nun who sold it waved her arms over this little bit of stamped
silver and said some kind of Holy magic incantation as she held it,
then signed a little certificate to attest she had done it. All done
very reverently of course in the best of possible taste. Presumably
she had turned it into some kind of magic talisman. No doubt she
also blessed the holy cash that went into the Holy till to fill the
Holy coffers. Thus she carries out 'Gods Holy works' and is
her self blessed and Holy. Will they make her a Saint a
few years after she dies perhaps for performing this miracle many
times a day?
Perhaps they will erect a statue of her outside the church and
she will become "The Holy mother of the cruicifix" and
catholics will place their just bought silver plated copper crucifixes
in her Holy Stone hands to imbue them with her same magic
miracle making powers.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
It is all mumbo-jumbo, magic woowoo, heap big ju-ju *****. To be
honest I am quite embarrassed to admit i was a devout catholic for many
years. One day I failed to see the reason to go to church. Then I
started to really think about Catholicism. I finally declared myself as
Catholic, retired. Now I declare myself an atheist. it took a while but
it happened all by itself. George Carlin was instrumental in showing me
the contradictions in Christianity. Thanks George! The Blessings, the
confessions, Confirmations, weddings, funerals, bendictions, high mass,
mass, Easter, Christmas, 7th Sunday in Ordinary time and more is just
*****. I have fond memories of Christmas mass when I was a child.
Catholicism all turned sour sometime after my 22nd birthday. I just
didn't need religion and it didn't need me. God ignored me for over 20
years so I decided to return the favor. (:>)
Catholics are like any other religion with one exception. They glorify
the insane and mentally ill by making them a saint but that isn't all! In
a final act of irony in the extreme, they make the nuttiest of them all
the patron saint of mental illness. Got mental health issues? Pray to
the one saint that was really off her rocker. Then there is the Saint who
never existed, St. Christopher - The travellers patron saint.
I really like the whole idea of saints. One prays to a saint because they
have Gods ear and God listens to them more than he does the living. When
the Saint prays to God for you, he will do it over and over until God
gives in of the saint gives up or God says NO!!! This is like asking your
friend to ask your Dad for your allowance. Do you think God likes that?
Wouldn't your Dad be *****?
If catholics actually thought about the crap they are doing, they would
drop Catholicism like a hot rock. They have to. The whole thing is nuts!
pierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 03:28:20 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:32:37 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les,
It is all mumbo-jumbo, magic woowoo, heap big ju-ju *****. To be
honest I am quite embarrassed to admit i was a devout catholic for many
years. One day I failed to see the reason to go to church. Then I
started to really think about Catholicism. I finally declared myself as
Catholic, retired. Now I declare myself an atheist. it took a while but
it happened all by itself. George Carlin was instrumental in showing me
the contradictions in Christianity. Thanks George! The Blessings, the
confessions, Confirmations, weddings, funerals, bendictions, high mass,
mass, Easter, Christmas, 7th Sunday in Ordinary time and more is just
*****. I have fond memories of Christmas mass when I was a child.
Catholicism all turned sour sometime after my 22nd birthday. I just
didn't need religion and it didn't need me. God ignored me for over 20
years so I decided to return the favor. (:>)
If you think 'ignoring god' makes you an atheist then sorry I do
not agree with you. (Maybe you were just joking there?). If you
believe a god exists but reject or deny it you are a theist in denial.
Catholics are like any other religion with one exception. They glorify
the insane and mentally ill by making them a saint but that isn't all! In
a final act of irony in the extreme, they make the nuttiest of them all
the patron saint of mental illness. Got mental health issues? Pray to
the one saint that was really off her rocker. Then there is the Saint who
never existed, St. Christopher - The travellers patron saint.
I really like the whole idea of saints. One prays to a saint because they
have Gods ear and God listens to them more than he does the living. When
the Saint prays to God for you, he will do it over and over until God
gives in of the saint gives up or God says NO!!! This is like asking your
friend to ask your Dad for your allowance. Do you think God likes that?
Wouldn't your Dad be *****?
Your question is meaningless to me since I am not a person who
believes in the existence of god or gods (not theist)
If you 'pray' to saints in the hope they might have 'gods ears' then
you are no atheist.
Saints are human inventions, the title being given by humans. You have
no idea of the 'after-life' status of these 'saints' or whether they
even have an after life.
One such 'saint' Thomas Becket, former Archbishop of Canterbury, has
just been voted as one of the top ten most evil Britons
If catholics actually thought about the crap they are doing, they would
drop Catholicism like a hot rock. They have to. The whole thing is nuts!
pierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 08:18:07 AM |
|
|
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:ik9ut1p99hru6ej4iurjn7kbujijtanjed@4ax.com:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:32:37 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les,
It is all mumbo-jumbo, magic woowoo, heap big ju-ju *****. To be
honest I am quite embarrassed to admit i was a devout catholic for many
years. One day I failed to see the reason to go to church. Then I
started to really think about Catholicism. I finally declared myself as
Catholic, retired. Now I declare myself an atheist. it took a while
but it happened all by itself. George Carlin was instrumental in
showing me the contradictions in Christianity. Thanks George! The
Blessings, the confessions, Confirmations, weddings, funerals,
bendictions, high mass, mass, Easter, Christmas, 7th Sunday in Ordinary
time and more is just *****. I have fond memories of Christmas mass
when I was a child. Catholicism all turned sour sometime after my 22nd
birthday. I just didn't need religion and it didn't need me. God
ignored me for over 20 years so I decided to return the favor. (:>)
If you think 'ignoring god' makes you an atheist then sorry I do
not agree with you. (Maybe you were just joking there?). If you
believe a god exists but reject or deny it you are a theist in denial.
It was supposed to be funny. Several years after age 22 or so I realized
that there is no God. It is an impossibility. It have been proven so
many times I tire of counting them.
Catholics are like any other religion with one exception. They glorify
the insane and mentally ill by making them a saint but that isn't all!
In a final act of irony in the extreme, they make the nuttiest of them
all the patron saint of mental illness. Got mental health issues?
Pray to the one saint that was really off her rocker. Then there is the
Saint who never existed, St. Christopher - The travellers patron saint.
I really like the whole idea of saints. One prays to a saint because
they have Gods ear and God listens to them more than he does the living.
When the Saint prays to God for you, he will do it over and over until
God gives in of the saint gives up or God says NO!!! This is like
asking your friend to ask your Dad for your allowance. Do you think God
likes that? Wouldn't your Dad be *****?
Your question is meaningless to me since I am not a person who
believes in the existence of god or gods (not theist)
I should have put <sarcasm> before the part that say "I really like the
whole idea ..." Maybe a #define SARCASM.
It was a question made to illustrate a point and the point is how
ridiculous most if not all of the Catholic ideas are.
If you 'pray' to saints in the hope they might have 'gods ears' then
you are no atheist.
True but religion has no purpose in my life. Religion and the belife in
god is one of the roots of all evil.
Saints are human inventions, the title being given by humans. You have
no idea of the 'after-life' status of these 'saints' or whether they
even have an after life.
Of course. The whole notion is patently ridiculous. The only reason for
it is so the masses have a hero to inspire them.
One such 'saint' Thomas Becket, former Archbishop of Canterbury, has
just been voted as one of the top ten most evil Britons
Really! I never knew that. I will have to read why. This could be fun.
Even as a child when I would be told the stories of the saints, I remember
saying to myself "That is impossible" and laughing at the ridiculousness
of it.
pierce
.
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 04:22:31 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:18:07 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:ik9ut1p99hru6ej4iurjn7kbujijtanjed@4ax.com:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:32:37 GMT, "R. Pierce Butler"
<spamsucks@google.com> wrote:
Les,
It is all mumbo-jumbo, magic woowoo, heap big ju-ju *****. To be
honest I am quite embarrassed to admit i was a devout catholic for many
years. One day I failed to see the reason to go to church. Then I
started to really think about Catholicism. I finally declared myself as
Catholic, retired. Now I declare myself an atheist. it took a while
but it happened all by itself. George Carlin was instrumental in
showing me the contradictions in Christianity. Thanks George! The
Blessings, the confessions, Confirmations, weddings, funerals,
bendictions, high mass, mass, Easter, Christmas, 7th Sunday in Ordinary
time and more is just *****. I have fond memories of Christmas mass
when I was a child. Catholicism all turned sour sometime after my 22nd
birthday. I just didn't need religion and it didn't need me. God
ignored me for over 20 years so I decided to return the favor. (:>)
If you think 'ignoring god' makes you an atheist then sorry I do
not agree with you. (Maybe you were just joking there?). If you
believe a god exists but reject or deny it you are a theist in denial.
It was supposed to be funny. Several years after age 22 or so I realized
that there is no God. It is an impossibility. It have been proven so
many times I tire of counting them.
Catholics are like any other religion with one exception. They glorify
the insane and mentally ill by making them a saint but that isn't all!
In a final act of irony in the extreme, they make the nuttiest of them
all the patron saint of mental illness. Got mental health issues?
Pray to the one saint that was really off her rocker. Then there is the
Saint who never existed, St. Christopher - The travellers patron saint.
I really like the whole idea of saints. One prays to a saint because
they have Gods ear and God listens to them more than he does the living.
When the Saint prays to God for you, he will do it over and over until
God gives in of the saint gives up or God says NO!!! This is like
asking your friend to ask your Dad for your allowance. Do you think God
likes that? Wouldn't your Dad be *****?
Your question is meaningless to me since I am not a person who
believes in the existence of god or gods (not theist)
I should have put <sarcasm> before the part that say "I really like the
whole idea ..." Maybe a #define SARCASM.
It was a question made to illustrate a point and the point is how
ridiculous most if not all of the Catholic ideas are.
If you 'pray' to saints in the hope they might have 'gods ears' then
you are no atheist.
True but religion has no purpose in my life. Religion and the belife in
god is one of the roots of all evil.
Saints are human inventions, the title being given by humans. You have
no idea of the 'after-life' status of these 'saints' or whether they
even have an after life.
Of course. The whole notion is patently ridiculous. The only reason for
it is so the masses have a hero to inspire them.
One such 'saint' Thomas Becket, former Archbishop of Canterbury, has
just been voted as one of the top ten most evil Britons
Really! I never knew that. I will have to read why. This could be fun.
Even as a child when I would be told the stories of the saints, I remember
saying to myself "That is impossible" and laughing at the ridiculousness
of it.
There areactually two ex Archbishops of Canterbury on the list. You
missed the thread "Ten worst Britons?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4560716.stm
Just found this (with ten worst USA'ers)
http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/29/ten-worst-britons-and-americans/
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
28 Jan 2006 02:11:23 PM |
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Les Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in
news:kuhnt1tr46v2skkami7fa7650q8edke8ih@4ax.com:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
Are you sure he hasn't been there? Many times? For extended visits?
All-night head-bumping vigils? Riding a moped ar the rocks head first?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either
case, the thought is staggering."
* R. Buckminster Fuller
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 12:59:05 AM |
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Les Hellawell wrote:
...Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
Maybe we should send Duke?
What wisdom is there in puke's void-between-the-ears to be increased? Now if
the legend said "created and increased", that might be another case... ;)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 08:10:25 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:59:05 +0100, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote:
...Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
Maybe we should send Duke?
What wisdom is there in puke's void-between-the-ears to be increased? Now if
the legend said "created and increased", that might be another case... ;)
Well, you too have every chance to show me the error of my beliefs, but alas,
you have yet to start. Does that ring a bell?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 10:18:36 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:10:25 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:59:05 +0100, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote:
...Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
Maybe we should send Duke?
What wisdom is there in puke's void-between-the-ears to be increased? Now if
the legend said "created and increased", that might be another case... ;)
Well, you too have every chance to show me the error of my beliefs, but alas,
you have yet to start. Does that ring a bell?
All evidence points to the error in your beliefs. What are they BTW?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect way to waste an hour."
Pope Paul VI aught to have said
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
30 Jan 2006 05:37:54 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:18:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Well, you too have every chance to show me the error of my beliefs, but alas,
you have yet to start. Does that ring a bell?
All evidence points to the error in your beliefs. What are they BTW?
I never presented them to you?
*****
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
1. The belief that a supreme being is the creator of the universe is
based on a profession by those that believe that is equal to, but no
less than, any profession that our universe exists for any other
alternative reason that can be imagined.
One could hypothesize an astronomical event such as a prior universe
that collapsed in on itself and has now exploded outward to form our new
present universe. If this did happen, it would have happened again
and again for the same reason as the latest occurrence, thereby
suggesting that the universe always was, is, and always will be. Yet
another equal suggestion is that the universe was birthed out of
another universe, or another dimension.
The human mind cannot cope with the idea that all things lack a
beginning, and clearly neither matter nor energy on their own, the
basic building blocks of the universe, could either exist in and of
itself, or in and of its own intelligence.
The profession by believers is that our universe is a creation of
almighty God who is truly acknowledged as "always was, is, and always
will be". No alternative is available.
2. The big bang - first there was nothing - no time, no mass, no energy, no
"outer space" - then an infinitely small point of infinitely dense mass appeared
which was not there before, and then it exploded outward to form our universe,
including "time" and all "outer space" as we know it.
The universe is expanding, but into what? Is there an edge to the universe, and
if there is, what is it expanding into?
3. Medical science itself professes the human body to reflect a
"design with purpose". It consists of a central computer (brain)
supported by a fluid transfer system (blood) forced along by a pump
(heart), an energy conversion system (stomach and intestines), a waste
disposal system, an oxygen transfer system (lungs) that is required to
transfer necessary oxygen to the brain and to the body parts,
maintenance organs (spleen, gall bladder, etc), and a body salinity
(same as ocean water) exactly correct as necessary for transfer of
minute electrical signals to/from the brain to operate and control the
body.
4. The conception equation contained in animal forms is divided 50%
in the male and 50% in the female. We only mix the chemicals. Of special
interest is the fact that the male and female organs are of complimentary shape
in mammals. These two facts are especially conducive to support planned
design.
5. ARC101: In the overall scheme of advancement in relationships of
life forms as we move from the least to the greatest:
The rock (inanimate object) does not respond to, or relate to, the
plant's existence because it fully lacks the faculties to do so. Nor
does the plant acknowledge, in any fashion, it's awareness of the
inanimate object.
One level upward, the plant (simple life) does not respond to, or
relate to, the cow's existence because it lacks the faculties to do
so. However, the cow does have a limited reverse recognition of the
plant because it is a noted food source for the cow, but the plant
does not relate in any way to the cow, what it is, or why it is.
One level up, the cow (complex life form) does not respond to, or
relate to, the human's existence, other than in very rudimentary ways,
because it lacks the faculties to do so. Man, on the other hand, has
a full range of knowledge and a clear relationship directed backward
to the cow including leading the cow by the nose, but the cow has
minimal upward reaction to the man other than the cow sees the man,
but has no idea what the man is or what the man does or why the man is
there.
Notice how one level can relate backwards to a lower level, but in the
opposite higher level only in a very rudimentary fashion. Yet each
higher level not only exists but exists "basically unknown" to the
level below it.
What, then, regarding the existence of a level higher than the human?
As is seen at each level, the inability, or limited ability, to relate
to the level above it does not in any way negate its very existence.
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man. Does this negate the existence of such a
level? Why should we be able to relate upwards when lower life can't.
By all logic, there should be at least one level above human.
As humans (mankind), we possess tremendous advanced faculties over
those of the cow - intelligence, reason, logic, love, empathy,
sympathy, knowing we suffer and why, etc. And we can use these
faculties to study, learn, reason, dream, and subjectively conclude
that, logically speaking, some level should exist higher than man.
As before, we too are limited in our ability to relate to that higher
level, but in no way does this negate its existence.
If there is no greater known than man, then man would be the pinnacle
of life, the top - evidenced by the mess we make of the world - war,
disease, pestilence, hatred, man's inhumanity to man, etc.
Man as the ultimate, the pinnacle, the top, is illogical.
How many levels are there above us? We don't know - we can't even
prove so much as one level. The top level, by all logic, must be
*perfection*. Is it reasonable to think the move from man to the top
is made in one step? That is not very imaginative.
So let's think in term of two steps - one greater than man and one
lesser than a supreme being. Strangely enough, the "angel" fits the
position exactly, more than man but less than perfection.
Can we prove it - of course not. But we can use our advanced
capacities to dream, to aspire, to reach out for that possible next
step, from which we can profess to truly be the creation of one more
perfect than us.
*****
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
30 Jan 2006 02:56:28 PM |
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:37:54 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:18:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Well, you too have every chance to show me the error of my beliefs, but alas,
you have yet to start. Does that ring a bell?
All evidence points to the error in your beliefs. What are they BTW?
I never presented them to you?
*****
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
Ah I had been hoping you would re-publish this one day.
I will concentrate on these passage snipping the rest
The rock (inanimate object) does not respond to, or relate to, the
plant's existence because it fully lacks the faculties to do so. Nor
does the plant acknowledge, in any fashion, it's awareness of the
inanimate object.
Notice how one level can relate backwards to a lower level, but in the
opposite higher level only in a very rudimentary fashion. Yet each
higher level not only exists but exists "basically unknown" to the
level below it.
<snip>
What, then, regarding the existence of a level higher than the human?
As is seen at each level, the inability, or limited ability, to relate
to the level above it does not in any way negate its very existence.
<snip>
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man.
Knowingly lack?
Does this negate the existence of such a
level? Why should we be able to relate upwards when lower life can't.
By all logic, there should be at least one level above human.
What you are basically saying here is that just as a rock cannot
comprehend a worm (a higher being) or a worm us (a higher being
than a worm) we cannot comprehend beings 'higher' than us
Have I got this right?
How many levels are there above us? We don't know - we can't even
prove so much as one level. The top level, by all logic, must be
*perfection*. Is it reasonable to think the move from man to the top
is made in one step? That is not very imaginative.
So let's think in term of two steps - one greater than man and one
lesser than a supreme being. Strangely enough, the "angel" fits the
position exactly, more than man but less than perfection.
Can we prove it - of course not. But we can use our advanced
capacities to dream, to aspire, to reach out for that possible next
step, from which we can profess to truly be the creation of one more
perfect than us.
Oh course we can, and and some do, Tolkein dreamed up Middle Earth,
but dreams should never become beliefs that they are true.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 05:18:42 AM |
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:56:28 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I never presented them to you?
*****
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
Ah I had been hoping you would re-publish this one day.
Why didn't you just ask me to?
I will concentrate on these passage snipping the rest
The rock (inanimate object) does not respond to, or relate to, the
plant's existence because it fully lacks the faculties to do so. Nor
does the plant acknowledge, in any fashion, it's awareness of the
inanimate object.
Notice how one level can relate backwards to a lower level, but in the
opposite higher level only in a very rudimentary fashion. Yet each
higher level not only exists but exists "basically unknown" to the
level below it.
<snip>
What, then, regarding the existence of a level higher than the human?
As is seen at each level, the inability, or limited ability, to relate
to the level above it does not in any way negate its very existence.
<snip>
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man.
Knowingly lack?
Of course. Logic and reason demand a higher level. We lack the faculties to
meet one on one with God just as the cow lacks the faculties to meet one on one
with humans.
Does this negate the existence of such a
level? Why should we be able to relate upwards when lower life can't.
By all logic, there should be at least one level above human.
What you are basically saying here is that just as a rock cannot
comprehend a worm (a higher being) or a worm us (a higher being
than a worm) we cannot comprehend beings 'higher' than us
Have I got this right?
Of course. Logic and reason demand a higher level. We lack the faculties to
meet one on one with God just as the cow lacks the faculties to meet with humans
one on one. Higher has full authority over the lower. Notice though that each
lower level (moving up) gets progressive closer to one on one with it's
superior.
How many levels are there above us? We don't know - we can't even
prove so much as one level. The top level, by all logic, must be
*perfection*. Is it reasonable to think the move from man to the top
is made in one step? That is not very imaginative.
So let's think in term of two steps - one greater than man and one
lesser than a supreme being. Strangely enough, the "angel" fits the
position exactly, more than man but less than perfection.
Can we prove it - of course not. But we can use our advanced
capacities to dream, to aspire, to reach out for that possible next
step, from which we can profess to truly be the creation of one more
perfect than us.
Oh course we can, and and some do, Tolkein dreamed up Middle Earth,
but dreams should never become beliefs that they are true.
"Dreaming" is a progressive step up. Cows don't have the capacity to dream, to
use logic, to use reason. But humans do.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
31 Jan 2006 04:18:39 PM |
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On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:18:42 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:56:28 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I never presented them to you?
*****
Evidence of God (Rev1)- duke32, circa 2002AD
Ah I had been hoping you would re-publish this one day.
Why didn't you just ask me to?
I will concentrate on these passage snipping the rest
The rock (inanimate object) does not respond to, or relate to, the
plant's existence because it fully lacks the faculties to do so. Nor
does the plant acknowledge, in any fashion, it's awareness of the
inanimate object.
Notice how one level can relate backwards to a lower level, but in the
opposite higher level only in a very rudimentary fashion. Yet each
higher level not only exists but exists "basically unknown" to the
level below it.
<snip>
What, then, regarding the existence of a level higher than the human?
As is seen at each level, the inability, or limited ability, to relate
to the level above it does not in any way negate its very existence.
<snip>
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man.
Knowingly lack?
Of course. Logic and reason demand a higher level. We lack the faculties to
meet one on one with God just as the cow lacks the faculties to meet one on one
with humans.
Does this negate the existence of such a
level? Why should we be able to relate upwards when lower life can't.
By all logic, there should be at least one level above human.
What you are basically saying here is that just as a rock cannot
comprehend a worm (a higher being) or a worm us (a higher being
than a worm) we cannot comprehend beings 'higher' than us
Have I got this right?
Of course. Logic and reason demand a higher level. We lack the faculties to
meet one on one with God just as the cow lacks the faculties to meet with humans
one on one. Higher has full authority over the lower. Notice though that each
lower level (moving up) gets progressive closer to one on one with it's
superior.
Right. Now we know a rock cannot comprehend a worm, but can a
worm comprehend the rock? I think we can be certain a worm cannot
communinate with a rock even though it is at a higher level. Neither
can we.
We can however comprehend a worm but again cannot communicate
with it. Thus higher levels beings may not necessarily be able to
communicate with lower level ones.
If we are as a worm to a being at a higher level than us maybe it is
also incapable of communicating with us? It may not even be aware
we exist unable to comprehend us as the worm cannot comprehend
the rock.
Now to my next question. If a stone cannot comprehend a worm,
and a worm cannot comprehend a stone, can we comprehend a
higher being than us?
Thus far all you have done is comprehend the possibility there
might be one or more levels.
"Dreaming" is a progressive step up. Cows don't have the capacity to dream, to
use logic, to use reason. But humans do.
They don't?
We have very clever sheep here. Do you use 'cattle grids over there'?
Put a pit across a road then iron bars across the pit. cars can
roll over them but sheep and cattle cannot walk across. No problem
for our sheep. They lie down and roll over easy peasy. Tell me that
wasn't reasoning and an ability to learn?
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
28 Jan 2006 11:11:30 PM |
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Les Hellawell wrote:
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Ah! Such wisdom!
;-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 05:21:38 PM |
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:00:09 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in alt.atheism
The second most important place of pilgrimage in the
RCC world is the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Northern
Spain (Galicia). On the Portico Gloria (the main entry door
for pilgrims) is the statue of the cathedrals builder Master
Mateo, which is know as "Santo dos Crogues" or the "Saint Of The
Bumps".
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Have a great trip.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 08:09:06 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:00:09 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
There is always a room for a little more.
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Nah, it would just drain out your toes.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 10:13:19 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:09:06 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:00:09 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Catholics believe that if they bump or bang their head against
the stone their wisdom is increased.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/images/image/8860-popup.html
Maybe we should send Duke?
There is always a room for a little more.
True
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Nah, it would just drain out your toes.
Ah, so that's how it's been getting out! Thanks for sharing
your superior experience.:-)
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect way to waste an hour."
Pope Paul VI aught to have said
*****
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
29 Jan 2006 05:26:37 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:19 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Nah, it would just drain out your toes.
Ah, so that's how it's been getting out! Thanks for sharing
your superior experience.:-)
You're welcome.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Christinsanity brain training or Catholic logic |
30 Jan 2006 05:30:26 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:26:37 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:13:19 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I will be touring down there in April and hope to visit the
Cathedral, a magnificent folly to man's stupidity, but I don't
think I am going to start bumping my head against it. :-)
Nah, it would just drain out your toes.
Ah, so that's how it's been getting out! Thanks for sharing
your superior experience.:-)
You're welcome.
:-)
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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