| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
12 Oct 2004 02:51:51 AM |
| Object: |
Christopher Reeve |
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
Tuesday October 12, 2004
The Guardian
You were well advised to leave your pity at the door of Christopher
Reeve's airy, sun-filled home, hidden amid the rolling meadows and
white wooden barns of upstate New York. What struck you first, as he
was steered into the room, was his commanding height: his throne-like
wheelchair lifted his broad-shouldered bulk off the ground; sitting
down, you found yourself tilting your head upwards to look at him.
Oliver Burkeman
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0410020030.4c6c439%40posting.google.com
Christopher Reeve
http://news.google.com/news?q=%20%22Christopher%20Reeve%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Christopher+Reeve%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&tab=nw&ie=UTF-8&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Christopher+Reeve%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&output=search&cat=gwd/Top
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Christopher%20Reeve&safe=images&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
stem cells OR cell
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=stem+cells+OR+cell&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=stem+cells+OR+cell&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=stem+cells+OR+cell&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=stem%20&as_oq=cells%20cell&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Enemies of Science & Knowledge
http://tinyurl.com/9nb0
and thread
A Blueprint for the Future
http://tinyurl.com/9vga
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 11:02:09 AM |
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In article <Xns9580496F7DAdickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Well, fighting is more heroic than folding one's hands and dying, or
ending up as a blob, which is a common approach to the situation. True
heros don't see themselves as heroic anyway, they are just people who
meet the needs of the situation, in there own opinion.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 08:31:16 PM |
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Walter Bushell wrote in talk.origins
In article <Xns9580496F7DAdickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo. > wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Well, fighting is more heroic than folding one's hands and dying, or
ending up as a blob, which is a common approach to the situation. True
heros don't see themselves as heroic anyway, they are just people who
meet the needs of the situation, in there own opinion.
You know, I don't really know of anyone who has just given up,
although I am sure that some people have. But, until you go
through an extreme situation, such as being paralyzed by an
accident, or fighting cancer, Or any number of other conditions
that lead to death. You dont' understand what I mean by cope.
We all do it differently. But you get scared, you get angry,
and ultimately you generally try to keep on doing what you can.
And often times that means going on about your life. Continuing
working as long as you can, performing your volunteer work as
long as possible. Staying involved with your family. And so on.
He was unable to continue what he had been doing before, but he
had a new job, trying to recover, trying to get out of the wheel
chair, and he became a spokesman. Which is fine, but you also
need to realize that this was his way of coping with his situation.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who have the same
problems, but are not noticed beyond a small circle of friends
and family. And they do pretty much the same things, except that
they have neither the money nor the name to be labeled by the media
as heroes.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
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| User: "rich hammett" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 09:37:10 AM |
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In talk.origins ***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ "Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world;
\ than the pride that divides
/ when a colorful rag is unfurled."
.
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| User: "Louann Miller" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 01:52:18 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
<bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote:
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Having said that, there should be a laudatory term for people who
don't clear the bar of choosing to risk a bad outcome for a good cause
but who, when they get a bad outcome anyway, handle it with grace and
dignity. Reeve certainly did all that.
.
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| User: "Bob Casanova" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 04:48:59 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:52:18 +0000 (UTC), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Louann Miller
<louann_m@yahoo.net>:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
<bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote:
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Having said that, there should be a laudatory term for people who
don't clear the bar of choosing to risk a bad outcome for a good cause
but who, when they get a bad outcome anyway, handle it with grace and
dignity. Reeve certainly did all that.
It used to be "gentleman" (or "lady", used in the best sense
of the word).
--
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov
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| User: "Cotton Eyed Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 01:13:46 AM |
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rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in message
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
Do something beyond what any normal person would do considering the
circumstances. Doing what you are trained to do or what you would
normally do given a set of circumstances does not make you a hero.
Rushing into a burning house to same a child makes you a hero if you
are a plumber by trade or maybe if you are missing a leg. Rushing
into a burning building to save a child does not make you a herp if
you are a fireman trained specifically to do such things.
A soldier who dies in a gun battle is not neccessasarily a hero. A
soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his troop is closer to
being a hero.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 12:16:09 PM |
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Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in message
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
Do something beyond what any normal person would do considering the
circumstances. Doing what you are trained to do or what you would
normally do given a set of circumstances does not make you a hero.
Rushing into a burning house to same a child makes you a hero if you
are a plumber by trade or maybe if you are missing a leg. Rushing
into a burning building to save a child does not make you a herp if
you are a fireman trained specifically to do such things.
A soldier who dies in a gun battle is not neccessasarily a hero. A
soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his troop is closer to
being a hero.
Soldiers are trained to fight, firefighters are trained in their field
also. A firefighter, under normal circumstances, is not a hero. The
same goes for the soldier. But when the soldier acts in such a manner
that he disregards his safety to save someone else, then he becomes
a hero. When a firefighter does the same, he becomes a hero also. Just
because he receives special training does not change that simple fact.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 05:45:37 PM |
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rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> wrote in message news:<10mnrc8cu2mg188@corp.supernews.com>...
In talk.origins ***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
rich
Joseph Campell said that a hero was someone who risked his life for
the tribe, to rescue the treasure or slay the dragon.
I think the operative word is "risk". I agree, "hero" is used too
often as a generic "nice guy" term. Cops are heroes. Firemen (& women)
are definitely heroes. I would consider whistleblowers heroes,
perhaps. They risk their livelihood and reputations, if not their
lives. But people who only pay the bills and are nice to kids are not
heroes; they are nice, or dependable, or role models, or virtuous.
Heck, heroes can even be jerks. Anyone who's been in a war can tell
you about the fella who cheated in cards and was a sexist and maybe
racist and lacked military bearing... and when the grenade got tossed
into the tent, he was the guy who jumped on it.
Kermit
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 01:20:55 PM |
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rich hammett wrote in talk.origins
In talk.origins ***** C <foo. > sanoi, hitaasti kuin
hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
Risking your life to save someone else's comes to mind. Like when
a firefighter goes into a burning building, and risks being trapped
in order to find someone who is trapped. Or a by passer who jumps
into freezing water to pull out someone who has fallen in.
Mr Reeves did a tremondous service, but that does not make him
a hero.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "R. Tang" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 11:45:54 PM |
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In article <Xns95807484E5767dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo.> wrote:
rich hammett wrote in talk.origins
In talk.origins ***** C <foo. > sanoi, hitaasti kuin
hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
Risking your life to save someone else's comes to mind.
You DO realize that there's a fair amount of risk involved
whenever he had to travel? There was a non-trivial chance of killing
himself while travelling across the country and around the worl to raise
money for his cause....
Like when
a firefighter goes into a burning building, and risks being trapped
in order to find someone who is trapped. Or a by passer who jumps
into freezing water to pull out someone who has fallen in.
Mr Reeves did a tremondous service, but that does not make him
a hero.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 01:37:47 PM |
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R. Tang wrote in talk.origins
In article <Xns95807484E5767dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo. > wrote:
Risking your life to save someone else's comes to mind.
You DO realize that there's a fair amount of risk involved
whenever he had to travel? There was a non-trivial chance of killing
himself while travelling across the country and around the worl to raise
money for his cause....
Slightly more so than for most travelers. Yes, a man I knew who had
MS died while traveling back from Reno. He had a heart attack while
going over a pass. But that still does not qualify him as risking
his life to save others, not in the sense I mean.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "R. Tang" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 03:24:57 PM |
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In article <Xns958177689A1C0dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote:
R. Tang wrote in talk.origins
In article <Xns95807484E5767dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>,
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote:
Risking your life to save someone else's comes to mind.
You DO realize that there's a fair amount of risk involved
whenever he had to travel? There was a non-trivial chance of killing
himself while travelling across the country and around the worl to raise
money for his cause....
Slightly more so than for most travelers. Yes, a man I knew who had
MS died while traveling back from Reno. He had a heart attack while
going over a pass. But that still does not qualify him as risking
his life to save others, not in the sense I mean.
On the other hand, is that even possible for Reeve? And if not,
isn't the yardstick being used inappropriately? (Because heroism isn't
necessarily an objective set of criteria)
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 07:24:33 PM |
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rich hammett wrote:
In talk.origins ***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin
hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
rich
For me, it's when someone does something heroic when they don't really have
to.
I always remember the guy after the Washington air crash, desperately trying
to pull people ashore from freezing and deadly water of the Potomac, who, in
frustration, jumped in risking himself to pull someone to the bank.
He could have stood watching along with everyone else.
.
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| User: "Oghier Ghislain" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 10:04:58 AM |
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"Steve O" <stevobo@aol.com> wrote in message news:<2t3b9kF1qpk2mU1@uni-berlin.de>...
rich hammett wrote:
In talk.origins ***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> sanoi, hitaasti kuin
hämähäkki:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
rich
For me, it's when someone does something heroic when they don't really have
to.
I always remember the guy after the Washington air crash, desperately trying
to pull people ashore from freezing and deadly water of the Potomac, who, in
frustration, jumped in risking himself to pull someone to the bank.
He could have stood watching along with everyone else.
There was also the man aboard that plane who survived the impact to
find himself alive and floating in the Potomac, holding a
life-preserver attached to a rope, tossed from the shore. He passed
it to a woman, who was then pulled to safety. He wasn't able to hold
out long enough for it to be passed back to him.
That's heroic.
OG
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 02:50:11 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:07:31 +0000 (UTC), ***** C
<foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Actually he did way more than "cope as best he could". I thought that
too, then I read some stuff about how hard he was working, about the
chances he was taking and how he was trying to change the rules for
medicine. He was more than a media icon. Read some of the stuff about
what he did, it was impressive.
--
Matt Silberstein
Stones taught me to fly
Love taught me to lie
Life taught me to die
So it's not hard to fall
When you float like a cannonball
Damien Rice
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 06:38:33 PM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:07:31 +0000 (UTC), ***** C
<foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Actually he did way more than "cope as best he could". I thought that
too, then I read some stuff about how hard he was working, about the
chances he was taking and how he was trying to change the rules for
medicine. He was more than a media icon. Read some of the stuff about
what he did, it was impressive.
Reeve will be remembered not for his acting, nor for any heroics, but
for the force of his personality. Had he never had the injury, we might
not have seen it publicly, but he was, simply put, a good man.
--
John S. Wilkins
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
God cheats
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
12 Oct 2004 08:02:50 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote in talk.origins
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:07:31 +0000 (UTC), ***** C
<foo. > wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0410112357.74dacfb@posting.google.com...
Life and death of a hero
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1325013,00.html
Paralysed from the neck down after a riding accident, Christopher
Reeve became a tireless campaigner for stem cell research. Some
accused him of offering false hope. But it is his courage and
strength
of will that will be remembered, says Oliver Burkeman
I am not sure what makes him a hero. He wasn't into spinal cord
injury
research until he himself was injured.
Not to disparage Mr. Reeves, but I really hate applying the word
hero to most of the people it is used for. Mr. Reeves did not
perform a courageous act. He was injured, and he coped as best he
could. Many people that catch the media's attention are called
brave and heroic, when all they do is manage to cope with life
and the setbacks we all encounter. Lets' face it, I am a cancer
survivor, it was tough, but not heroic. Reeves had it tough, yes,
but that does not make him a hero. He was a media icon.
Actually he did way more than "cope as best he could". I thought that
too, then I read some stuff about how hard he was working, about the
chances he was taking and how he was trying to change the rules for
medicine. He was more than a media icon. Read some of the stuff about
what he did, it was impressive.
He was well known because he was an actor. And because of that the
media made him an icon. And he used that status to further his
causes. Which is fine, and laudable. It shows that he was more than
the pampered, self indulgent movie star that we see so often. But,
by the same token, if his name had been Matt Siberstein, or ***** Craven,
nobody outside of a small circle of family and friends would have
taken notice. Note, I wish to stress that admire him for what he did,
and how he handled it. I also admire him for using his fame to try
to improve things for others. But, to me a hero has a specific meaning,
and he does not quite fit the bill.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
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| User: "nobody" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 07:14:43 AM |
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Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
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| User: "Louann Miller" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 12:44:56 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:43 +0000 (UTC), nobody <nobody@here.com>
wrote:
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
I disagree. The fireman, after all, chose to become a fireman knowing
that it was a life-threatening job.
.
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| User: "Cotton Eyed Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 01:28:05 AM |
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Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:<qnqqm0lmovbrdns3pgsdstvfimbvjacho2@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:43 +0000 (UTC), nobody <nobody@here.com>
wrote:
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
I disagree. The fireman, after all, chose to become a fireman knowing
that it was a life-threatening job.
But he is trained and compensated for his job. By merit of his
training his risk is actually less than it would be for someone
trained only as a dog catcher, for example.
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 12:18:26 PM |
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Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:<qnqqm0lmovbrdns3pgsdstvfimbvjacho2@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:43 +0000 (UTC), nobody <nobody@here.com>
wrote:
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But
a fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
I disagree. The fireman, after all, chose to become a fireman knowing
that it was a life-threatening job.
But he is trained and compensated for his job. By merit of his
training his risk is actually less than it would be for someone
trained only as a dog catcher, for example.
And the risk is greater than the office worker who does not go into
the fire to begin with. Fire fighters, even with their special gear
and training, still die in fires. The risk is somewhat reduced, but it
is still there.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "Cotton Eyed Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 02:55:52 PM |
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"***** C" <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote in message
But he is trained and compensated for his job. By merit of his
training his risk is actually less than it would be for someone
trained only as a dog catcher, for example.
And the risk is greater than the office worker who does not go into
the fire to begin with. Fire fighters, even with their special gear
and training, still die in fires. The risk is somewhat reduced, but it
is still there.
But does the risk of death alone make one a hero? If so, then there are
quite a few professions ahead of the firefighter that no one ever thinks to
call heroes.
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
16 Oct 2004 12:50:03 PM |
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Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
"***** C" <foo. > wrote in message
But he is trained and compensated for his job. By merit of his
training his risk is actually less than it would be for someone
trained only as a dog catcher, for example.
And the risk is greater than the office worker who does not go into
the fire to begin with. Fire fighters, even with their special gear
and training, still die in fires. The risk is somewhat reduced, but it
is still there.
But does the risk of death alone make one a hero? If so, then there are
quite a few professions ahead of the firefighter that no one ever thinks
to call heroes.
No, the risk of death does not make you a hero. The extreme risk of
bodily injury or death while saving someone else from the same makes
you a hero. For instance, a lumberjack's job is more dangerous on a
day to day basis, statistically. But he is not saving someone's life
in the process, nor is he in extreme danger. As a matter of fact,
in most cases the lumberjack can avoid the dangers and still perform
his job.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
16 Oct 2004 10:12:42 PM |
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***** C wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
But does the risk of death alone make one a hero? If so, then there
are quite a few professions ahead of the firefighter that no one
ever thinks to call heroes.
No, the risk of death does not make you a hero. The extreme risk of
bodily injury or death while saving someone else from the same makes
you a hero.
No, it makes you a potential victim and can make a simple incident into a
mass casualty event that pays the most attention to saving the idiot who got
into trouble when he or she did not have to, at the expense of the victim.
*I* am the most important person at the scene, my partners are next, the
crowd third and the victim last.
I don't do anything before I make safe the scene is safe for me and them. If
that means leaving the area until Hazmat or a specialty team gets there,
that's what I do.
This is the message delivered over and over and over to all EMS from First
Responder on.
That message is built on all the dead bodies of all the people who took
unnecessary risks.
I'm not sure what a hero is but I'm not one and don't know anybody who
thinks of themselves as one.
It's always the other guy - and he is usually dead.
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
17 Oct 2004 02:57:05 PM |
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Mike Painter wrote in talk.origins
***** C wrote:
Cotton Eyed Joe wrote in talk.origins
But does the risk of death alone make one a hero? If so, then there
are quite a few professions ahead of the firefighter that no one
ever thinks to call heroes.
No, the risk of death does not make you a hero. The extreme risk of
bodily injury or death while saving someone else from the same makes
you a hero.
No, it makes you a potential victim and can make a simple incident into
a mass casualty event that pays the most attention to saving the idiot
who got into trouble when he or she did not have to, at the expense of
the victim.
Yes, it might turn you into a victim, and that is what makes a hero.
It is also what saves lives.
*I* am the most important person at the scene, my partners are next, the
crowd third and the victim last.
I don't do anything before I make safe the scene is safe for me and
them. If that means leaving the area until Hazmat or a specialty team
gets there, that's what I do.
Ok, fine. But what about when someone is trapped inside a burning
building, and you have a chance of getting them out alive. But if
you wait for the scene to made safe, they will die? Do you then
back off and let them die, or do you attempt to rescue them?
That goes to the heart of the matter right there.
If someone can wait to be rescued, then there is no need to risk
your life. But if someone is trapped, and there is no time, then
what do you do?
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 01:43:15 PM |
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nobody wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
It may be their job, but they are still heroes. Imagine, being paid
to save lives while risking your own. There is a bit of difference
between running into a burning building, and driving a truck around
giving people their mail. Also a bit of difference between a fireman's
job and cutting people open in a sterile environment.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "fencingsax" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
13 Oct 2004 05:59:35 PM |
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***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9581785673091dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>...
nobody wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
It may be their job, but they are still heroes. Imagine, being paid
to save lives while risking your own. There is a bit of difference
between running into a burning building, and driving a truck around
giving people their mail. Also a bit of difference between a fireman's
job and cutting people open in a sterile environment.
Are you saying that doctors can't be heroes?
.
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| User: "Cotton Eyed Joe" |
|
| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 01:28:46 AM |
|
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(fencingsax) wrote in message news:<c1aaf5a4.0410131505.4f5d396a@posting.google.com>...
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9581785673091dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>...
nobody wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But a
fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
It may be their job, but they are still heroes. Imagine, being paid
to save lives while risking your own. There is a bit of difference
between running into a burning building, and driving a truck around
giving people their mail. Also a bit of difference between a fireman's
job and cutting people open in a sterile environment.
Are you saying that doctors can't be heroes?
They can be, just like anyone else can be.
.
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| User: "Dick C" |
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| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
14 Oct 2004 11:40:42 AM |
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fencingsax wrote in talk.origins
***** C <foo. > wrote in message
news:<Xns9581785673091dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>...
nobody wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But
a fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
It may be their job, but they are still heroes. Imagine, being paid
to save lives while risking your own. There is a bit of difference
between running into a burning building, and driving a truck around
giving people their mail. Also a bit of difference between a fireman's
job and cutting people open in a sterile environment.
Are you saying that doctors can't be heroes?
No, I am not saying that. Anyone can be a hero under the proper
circumstances. In the normal course of a day, a doctor is pretty
safe, he might catch a cold or the flu from a patient. And even
if he gets a more serious infection, he is in the midst of medicine.
But doctors have delivered medicine to people under very trying
circumstances. While under fire in a combat zone, in burning
buildings, and so on. Those doctors would be considered heroes.
--
***** #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin
Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email:
.
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| User: "fencingsax" |
|
| Title: Re: Christopher Reeve |
15 Oct 2004 09:20:19 AM |
|
|
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9582638999CE2dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>...
fencingsax wrote in talk.origins
***** C <foo.dickcr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Xns9581785673091dickcrcomcastnet@216.196.97.136>...
nobody wrote in talk.origins
Louann Miller <louann_m@yahoo.net> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:37:10 +0000 (UTC), rich hammett
Just what _does_ make somebody a hero?
I would say having the choice of not being in the bad situation, and
doing it purposely. By that yardstick, the guy who is crippled for
life when his house accidentally catches on fire is not a hero. But
a fireman or bystander who, safely outside, goes in and drags him out
successfully or not is a hero.
Even then, it's a fireman's job to do that just as it is a surgeon's
job to operate and save lives and a teacher's job to teach and a
postman's job to lose the mail. Now, if someone goes well above and
beyond the call of duty while risking his life and well being, that I
call heroism.
It may be their job, but they are still heroes. Imagine, being paid
to save lives while risking your own. There is a bit of difference
between running into a burning building, and driving a truck around
giving people their mail. Also a bit of difference between a fireman's
job and cutting people open in a sterile environment.
Are you saying that doctors can't be heroes?
No, I am not saying that. Anyone can be a hero under the proper
circumstances. In the normal course of a day, a doctor is pretty
safe, he might catch a cold or the flu from a patient. And even
if he gets a more serious infection, he is in the midst of medicine.
But doctors have delivered medicine to people under very trying
circumstances. While under fire in a combat zone, in burning
buildings, and so on. Those doctors would be considered heroes.
What about those who are researching cures and vaccines etc? I think
I know what you mean, but there is more to being a hero than risk to
yourself. There is also bettering your fellow man. Even if there is
no risk to you personally, if the outcome is great enough you can be a
hero. At least that's what I think.
.
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