| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kurt Nicklas" |
| Date: |
13 Jun 2006 11:05:10 AM |
| Object: |
#Christ's Death: A Rescue Mission, Not a Payment for Sins |
http://beliefnet.com/story/182/story_18227_1.html
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| User: "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
14 Jun 2006 04:17:22 PM |
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quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 10:22:14 AM |
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"dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
WTF? Put down the crack pipe.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
14 Jun 2006 05:22:11 PM |
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In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
-- cary
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| User: "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
14 Jun 2006 11:44:52 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
Yes, and when Christ defeated Death and Hades when He died, He
descended thereto and set all the captives free that were there in
Paradise. (there are two parts of Hades: Torments and Paradise.
Paradise is empty now; has been since the Resurrection. Torments (as
you'll find out if you don't shape up) is still going strong, only with
volunteer staff nowadays.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 10:26:37 AM |
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"dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150346692.924653.117450@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri
mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
Yes, and when Christ defeated Death and Hades when He died, He
descended thereto and set all the captives free that were there in
Paradise. (there are two parts of Hades: Torments and Paradise.
Paradise is empty now; has been since the Resurrection. Torments (as
you'll find out if you don't shape up) is still going strong, only with
volunteer staff nowadays.
IIRC, Hades is part of Greek mythology, no?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 03:27:48 PM |
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IIRC, Hades is part of Greek mythology, no?
The concept behind the word? Sure.
The word itself? Yes, intertwined with it, but as in other cases of
lexical borrowing, it was adopted/used (since the NT was written in
Greek) to denote the state of the dead who were waiting for the
Resurrection.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 03:34:29 PM |
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"dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150403268.886696.285910@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
IIRC, Hades is part of Greek mythology, no?
The concept behind the word? Sure.
The word itself? Yes, intertwined with it, but as in other cases of
lexical borrowing, it was adopted/used (since the NT was written in
Greek) to denote the state of the dead who were waiting for the
Resurrection.
Might you have any evidence such a place actually exists?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 01:19:02 PM |
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In article <1150346692.924653.117450@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
Yes, and when Christ defeated Death and Hades when He died, He
descended thereto and set all the captives free that were there in
Paradise. (there are two parts of Hades: Torments and Paradise.
Paradise is empty now; has been since the Resurrection. Torments (as
you'll find out if you don't shape up) is still going strong, only with
volunteer staff nowadays.
So god just tortured them for a few millennia then, after
which he said "Allee allee all in free".
Some god you got there.
Some theology you got there, for that matter. Where do you
come up with all this?
-- cary
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| User: "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
15 Jun 2006 03:31:54 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150346692.924653.117450@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
Yes, and when Christ defeated Death and Hades when He died, He
descended thereto and set all the captives free that were there in
Paradise. (there are two parts of Hades: Torments and Paradise.
Paradise is empty now; has been since the Resurrection. Torments (as
you'll find out if you don't shape up) is still going strong, only with
volunteer staff nowadays.
So god just tortured them for a few millennia then, after
which he said "Allee allee all in free".
Some god you got there.
Some theology you got there, for that matter. Where do you
come up with all this?
You know, before you attempt to debate theology, you should actually
LEARN some.
The part of Hades where the righteous were held till the Resurrection
was called "Paradise" for a reason........
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
17 Jun 2006 06:41:03 AM |
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On 15 Jun 2006 13:31:54 -0700, "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa"
<drm969@gmail.com> wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150346692.924653.117450@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" <drm969@gmail.com> writes:
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success: we are no longer bound to separation
from God, no longer slaves to Death/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers. Before the Cross, it was
everyone.
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Some god you got there.
Yes, and when Christ defeated Death and Hades when He died, He
descended thereto and set all the captives free that were there in
Paradise. (there are two parts of Hades: Torments and Paradise.
Paradise is empty now; has been since the Resurrection. Torments (as
you'll find out if you don't shape up) is still going strong, only with
volunteer staff nowadays.
So god just tortured them for a few millennia then, after
which he said "Allee allee all in free".
Some god you got there.
Some theology you got there, for that matter. Where do you
come up with all this?
You know, before you attempt to debate theology, you should actually
LEARN some.
The part of Hades where the righteous were held till the Resurrection
was called "Paradise" for a reason........
No it wasn't.
Paradise is an Arab concept, not a Greek one.
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| User: "AGGreen" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
18 Jun 2006 08:02:40 AM |
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"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:bkq792t7l2rl8qd2q713vs4mfsvq461fli@4ax.com...
Paradise is an Arab concept, not a Greek one.
***So, Adam and Eve were Arabs?
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
18 Jun 2006 10:26:13 AM |
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AGGreen wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:bkq792t7l2rl8qd2q713vs4mfsvq461fli@4ax.com...
Paradise is an Arab concept, not a Greek one.
***So, Adam and Eve were Arabs?
The Genesis garden was not paradise. It was a garden.
Adam was created to be stoop labor, literally the gardener,
see Genesis 2. Kept dumb and mortal, not allowed to eat
of the tree of knowledge or life.
God is not our friend.
--
Reason is the Devil's greatest *****; by nature and
manner of being she is a noxious *****; she is a
prostitute, the Devil's appointed *****; ***** eaten
by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she
and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her
face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the
house, to the
closets."
- Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "dmitri mosier/iowa city, iowa" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
17 Jun 2006 09:00:58 PM |
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No it wasn't.
Paradise is an Arab concept, not a Greek one.
And your point?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
14 Jun 2006 05:39:10 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:22:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Nope. That clearly shows you what you don't know.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
14 Jun 2006 05:49:57 PM |
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In article <7v31929neuii94cvq8rm8bfab8gj4hebm4@4ax.com> duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> writes:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:22:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Nope. That clearly shows you what you don't know.
I am repeating what the poster said back at him.
Do pay attention; there's a good chap.
-- cary
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: #A Rescue Mission Doesn't Condemn People To Hell, Biaach! |
17 Jun 2006 07:45:25 AM |
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On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:49:57 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
Everyone before Jesus was consigned to hell...
Nope. That clearly shows you what you don't know.
I am repeating what the poster said back at him.
Do pay attention; there's a good chap.
-- cary
But I understand what he said, and you don't, when he said "There are only
volunteers in hell."
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: God wants to rescue you from the hell he created in the first place? |
14 Jun 2006 08:12:04 PM |
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In article <1150319842.416341.301720@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
drm969@gmail.com says...
quibbler wrote:
In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
The "Rescue Mission" of jesus was even more fucked up than Bush's
"Mission Accomplished" in Iraq then. His alleged "Rescue Mission"
involves condemning people to hell for not professing belief >>
Blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, that's what your bible sounds like, *****.
Mr. Quibbler:
The rescue mission was a success:
*****. First off, no rescue mission was needed. He proposes to
rescue us from the very problem that he invented in the first place. All
he had to do was not invent hell. If people to wrong then he can punish
them proportionately. But it is manifestly unjust to assign infinite
punishment for finite offenses.
we are no longer bound to separation
He made the separation, dumbass. Anyway, he never would have permitted
us to be like gods, as per Genesis, so there would have always been
separation. According to that ridiculous biblical fairy tale, gawd made
humans with inferior craftsmanship, so that we didn't know things like
the difference between right and wrong. So how could Adam and Eve be
held liable, when they didn't know the difference between good and evil,
by definition, until after they ate the magic fruit?
from God, no longer slaves to Death
But he's the one who made us a slave to death. He could have made us
immortal to begin with and then we wouldn't have needed any fruit tree
for that either. Your religion suggests that we voluntarily become
slaves to god because of our fear of the mortality that your own god
curses us with. I'm not afraid of death and I reject god belief. I'm
proof that one doesn't not need god to conquer that pathetic little fear.
/The Grave/Hades. The only ones
going to hell now are the volunteers.
Not true, liar. God condemns people who don't follow his ludicrous
laundry list of instructions. That is not the same as volunteering, just
because we refuse to give in to his blackmail. That's like saying that
you "volunteer" your lunch money to the school yard bully in exchange for
not getting beaten up. The money is being extorted, not freely given.
The same applies with your quid pro quo for heaven and hell. You are
bribed into obedience by heaven and blackmailed by your childish fears of
hell and death. BTW, the grave has nothing to do with hades, nor is
hades the same as hell, your syncretism notwithstanding.
Before the Cross,
What cross, moron? There were sometimes thousands of crucifixions per
year.
it was
everyone.
Eh? Next time try to write less like a fortune cookie and more like a
human being, capable of rational thought, if that's still possible with
your atrophied, god-rotted brain.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: #Christ's Death: A Rescue Mission, Not a Payment for Sins |
13 Jun 2006 07:39:50 PM |
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In article <KmBjg.54935$qd2.26725@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
kurt_nicklas@aport2000.ru says...
http://beliefnet.com/story/182/story_18227_1.html
The article is completely moronic and nonsensical, as with all xian
belief. Here are some excerpts with commentary:
"Hebrews 2:14 explains that the evil one has always controlled the
human race through fear of death"
Funny, fear of death is the main weapon hefted by the church to
scare people to obey jesus. It sounds then, like a case could be
made that jesus and the church are the evil one.
"But God sent Christ to rescue us; He took on human form (showing us
that these humble human bodies can bear the presence of God"
Irrelevant, since it's nothing that we would ever have to worry
about, not being god ourselves. We also don't have the privileges
of his magic or miraculous powers, which makes our lives harder than
his.
"like the Burning Bush bore His fire), lived a sinless life
Doubly irrelevant and contradicted by your own gospels. He violated
the sabbath and broke cleanliness laws, among . He tried to dismiss
these infractions, but they were technical violations nonetheless.
Naturally, god always says that anything he does isn't a sin.
"went into the realm of Hades like all human flesh, and then blasted
it open by His power."
Oh, so he used his magic power. How informative. Why did he need
to die to do this? Couldn't he have just waved his magic wand and
said abracadabra from his throne in heaven?
--
"Faith, indeed, has up to the present not been
able to move real mountains ... But it can put
mountains where there are none." -- Nietzsche
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: #Christ's Death: A Rescue Mission, Not a Payment for Sins |
13 Jun 2006 11:35:53 AM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
http://beliefnet.com/story/182/story_18227_1.html
Christs's death would be irrelevant if it weren't for the bad behaviour
by his believers over the centuries.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: #Christ's Death: A Rescue Mission, Not a Payment for Sins |
13 Jun 2006 02:11:43 PM |
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Kurt Nicklas wrote:
http://beliefnet.com/story/182/story_18227_1.html
Rescue mission? That went *real* well.
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