| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Rich Townsend" |
| Date: |
04 Nov 2007 11:40:21 AM |
| Object: |
Church in school |
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 12:45:34 PM |
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"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools
(I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my
school taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
Are you sure the church isn't paying for the time and the meeting space?
Are they forcing students to attend? Any particular reason the services
aren't being held in a church?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
1557
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| User: "Rich Townsend" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 04:19:30 PM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools
(I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my
school taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
Are you sure the church isn't paying for the time and the meeting space?
Are they forcing students to attend? Any particular reason the services
aren't being held in a church?
In fact, as my wife just pointed out to me, they are almost certainly paying
rent. And so, as long as they're getting equal treatment, I haven't (and can't)
have a problem with that.
Why aren't they in a church? I think they're a small, new congregation that
don't have a church of their own (yet).
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
05 Nov 2007 03:29:45 AM |
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"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fglghi$b7f$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public
schools (I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether
happy with my school taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
Are you sure the church isn't paying for the time and the meeting space?
Are they forcing students to attend? Any particular reason the services
aren't being held in a church?
In fact, as my wife just pointed out to me, they are almost certainly
paying rent. And so, as long as they're getting equal treatment, I haven't
(and can't) have a problem with that.
Why aren't they in a church? I think they're a small, new congregation
that don't have a church of their own (yet).
Well, there you go. That's pretty much what I thought was the situation.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 05:31:58 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:19:30 -0500, Rich Townsend
<rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools
(I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my
school taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
Are you sure the church isn't paying for the time and the meeting space?
Are they forcing students to attend? Any particular reason the services
aren't being held in a church?
In fact, as my wife just pointed out to me, they are almost certainly paying
rent. And so, as long as they're getting equal treatment, I haven't (and can't)
have a problem with that.
Why aren't they in a church? I think they're a small, new congregation that
don't have a church of their own (yet).
I can't see a problem with that.
.
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| User: "Rich Townsend" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 07:52:58 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:19:30 -0500, Rich Townsend
<rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Rich Townsend" <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools
(I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my
school taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
Are you sure the church isn't paying for the time and the meeting space?
Are they forcing students to attend? Any particular reason the services
aren't being held in a church?
In fact, as my wife just pointed out to me, they are almost certainly paying
rent. And so, as long as they're getting equal treatment, I haven't (and can't)
have a problem with that.
Why aren't they in a church? I think they're a small, new congregation that
don't have a church of their own (yet).
I can't see a problem with that.
Me neither; my question was a rhetorical response to an earlier poster.
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 08:45:53 PM |
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Rich Townsend:
In fact, as my wife just pointed out to me, they are almost certainly
paying rent. And so, as long as they're getting equal treatment, I haven't
(and can't) have a problem with that.
Inasmuch as I know US legislation on that one, it's legal then unless it's
part of the official curriculum.
Pretty similar to things over here in Germany. There's religion lessons,
paid in full by the churches, and you can opt out to attend some Ebil
Athiest(TM) lessons on generic ethics. ;)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 AM |
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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 05:30:59 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
Or if they are given discount, that discount needs to be universal.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 09:41:32 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:00:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
Or if they are given discount, that discount needs to be universal.
Actually, Michael, according to the court ruling (as I understand it)
it has to be fair market rent. If the entire city has a "rent
discount", that would make the "discounted" amount the fair market
rent.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 09:54:59 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:41:32 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:00:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
Or if they are given discount, that discount needs to be universal.
Actually, Michael, according to the court ruling (as I understand it)
it has to be fair market rent. If the entire city has a "rent
discount", that would make the "discounted" amount the fair market
rent.
I wwas referring to acceptable deviations from the usual course, such
as charitable exemptions for those in poverty (for instance)
It cannot apply only to Christians in poverty, or only males in
poverty, or only white people in poverty, a (valid) exemption such as
that must be applied to anyone in poverty to be legal.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
05 Nov 2007 07:46:12 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:24:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:41:32 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:00:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
Or if they are given discount, that discount needs to be universal.
Actually, Michael, according to the court ruling (as I understand it)
it has to be fair market rent. If the entire city has a "rent
discount", that would make the "discounted" amount the fair market
rent.
I wwas referring to acceptable deviations from the usual course, such
as charitable exemptions for those in poverty (for instance)
It cannot apply only to Christians in poverty, or only males in
poverty, or only white people in poverty, a (valid) exemption such as
that must be applied to anyone in poverty to be legal.
Like Faith Based Initiatives are legal because groups of any faith can
apply for them? Except that, if the group isn't Evangelical, the
application will most likely "accidentally" fall into the wastebasket
and never be found?
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"...I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand
why I dismiss yours."
- Stephen F. Roberts
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
05 Nov 2007 06:10:06 PM |
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:46:12 -0500, in alt.atheism
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in
<ni7ui312rel9ojrn323tkj1t30g3rm7gr2@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:24:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:41:32 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:00:59 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:44:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:40:21 -0500, in alt.atheism
Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
<fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public schools (I'm
in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with my school
taxes being used to subsidize religious activities.
They have to pay the same rent and follow the same rules that any other
organization follows in renting the facility.
Or if they are given discount, that discount needs to be universal.
Actually, Michael, according to the court ruling (as I understand it)
it has to be fair market rent. If the entire city has a "rent
discount", that would make the "discounted" amount the fair market
rent.
I wwas referring to acceptable deviations from the usual course, such
as charitable exemptions for those in poverty (for instance)
It cannot apply only to Christians in poverty, or only males in
poverty, or only white people in poverty, a (valid) exemption such as
that must be applied to anyone in poverty to be legal.
Like Faith Based Initiatives are legal because groups of any faith can
apply for them? Except that, if the group isn't Evangelical, the
application will most likely "accidentally" fall into the wastebasket
and never be found?
Kind of like how the request by a Democratic Governor to fly the Blue
Star pennant above the State Capitol was lost in the Pentagon.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Church in school |
04 Nov 2007 11:53:46 AM |
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Rich Townsend <rhdt@barVOIDtol.udel.edu> wrote in
news:fgl066$6lv$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu:
A quick question:
A Christian church group holds services in one of my local public
schools (I'm in the US). Is this legal? I'm not sure I'm altogether
happy with my school taxes being used to subsidize religious
activities.
A church rented out my school while theirs was under construction. They
paid full fare, the same price any local organization would pay if they
wanted to rent space. They made inprovements like a lighting and a sound
system we are still using nine years later. It was perfectly legal because
they received no price break, no subsidy, they didn't use school time, they
didn't push school activities aside.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"God has spared the naked man from washing his clothes with soap."
Arabian Proverb
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