| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ivan Gowch" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2004 12:27:15 AM |
| Object: |
Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
You gotta hand it to the Roman Catholic Church.
Not content to rest on its laurels and its
well-deserved reputation as the world's oldest
and biggest organization dedicated to fucking
children, the RCC now wants to dictate
religious fascism to democratic Europe.
I have some advice for European officials whose
responsibilities include having to listen to the likes
of Cardinal Ratfinger and others of the Pope's
Perverts: Instead of giving these miscreants the
time of day, execute a search warrant for the
Vatican. It really is about time. Use the Church's
meddling in the affairs of democracies as an excuse.
Search the ***** place from top to bottom. Pore over
every record and document. Scour the storied
Catacombs -- what is so secret that it must be hidden
from human eyes for hundreds of years? Do the
vaults contain piles of gold and jewels extorted from
Europe's royal houses since medieval times? Do they
conceal the bodies of children abused to death by the
pedophile priests who have used the Church as
their private procurement agency for centuries?
Isn't it about time the world takes a good, hard look
at what is the world's oldest ongoing criminal
conspiracy?
Can it afford not to?
===
Saying No to Turkey
New York Times Editorial
Published: August 15, 2004
Having failed to persuade Europe's leaders to enshrine Christianity in
the final draft of the constitution of the European Union, the Vatican
has found a new way to try to conflate European and Christian
identity. The Holy See would like to block Turkey's candidacy to the
European Union. In an interview last week with Le Figaro magazine, the
Catholic Church's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said that
Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular republic of 70 million people,
is "in permanent contrast to Europe" and that linking it to Europe
would be a mistake. To drive home his point about Turkey's
disqualifying otherness, he cited the Ottoman Empire's incursions into
the heart of Europe in centuries past.
Like meddlesome clerics the world over, Cardinal Ratzinger is
inflaming an important political debate. He is elevating religious
differences over political process and personal beliefs over values
that are universal, not a Judeo-Christian monopoly. But unlike other
issues on which the cardinal has recently taken provocative stands -
whether pro-choice Catholic politicians should receive communion, and
women's role in society (he said women are naturals at "listening,
welcoming and waiting") - enlargement of the European Union is outside
the church's purview. In the cardinal's view, Europe is Christian, so
Turkey doesn't belong.
In considering the possible implications of Turkey's membership in the
union, it would be refreshing if the cardinal had chosen to emphasize
the positive potential in combining the best Christian tradition of
charity and the best Muslim tradition of social justice. But he and
his fellow doctrinal conservatives worry most about secularization and
loss of Christian identity, both of which are implied if Turkey joins
the union. Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has
staked his political future on European Union membership, brushed off
the cardinal's comments. When the union decides in December whether to
begin formal accession talks with Turkey, it too should discount the
cardinal's views in favor of the political merits of Turkish
membership. In the meantime, we can all hope that the Catholic Church
will adopt a view that is more, well, catholic.
===
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 01:17:46 AM |
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....hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics be
thrown in jail as pedophiles?
Ivan Gowch wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Roman Catholic Church.
Not content to rest on its laurels and its well-deserved
reputation as the world's oldest and biggest organization
dedicated to fucking children, the RCC now wants to dictate
religious fascism to democratic Europe.
I have some advice for European officials whose
responsibilities include having to listen to the likes of
Cardinal Ratfinger and others of the Pope's Perverts:
Instead of giving these miscreants the time of day, execute a
search warrant for the Vatican. It really is about time.
Use the Church's meddling in the affairs of democracies as an
excuse.
Search the ***** place from top to bottom. Pore over every
record and document. Scour the storied Catacombs -- what is
so secret that it must be hidden from human eyes for hundreds
of years? Do the vaults contain piles of gold and jewels
extorted from Europe's royal houses since medieval times? Do
they conceal the bodies of children abused to death by the
pedophile priests who have used the Church as their private
procurement agency for centuries?
Isn't it about time the world takes a good, hard look at what
is the world's oldest ongoing criminal conspiracy?
Can it afford not to? ===
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "spamsux" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 06:14:18 AM |
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"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfpji9$pgu$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics be
thrown in jail as pedophiles?
It would be preferable to jail all Catholics that conceiled such activity.
The church will likely not obey any demands to have these people defrocked
and they would just declare backruptsy/vow of poverty if fined so jail is
the only solution for these hypocrites.
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 12:59:34 PM |
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spamsux wrote:
"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfpji9$pgu$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics be
thrown in jail as pedophiles?
It would be preferable to jail all Catholics that conceiled
such activity. The church will likely not obey any demands to
have these people defrocked and they would just declare
backruptsy/vow of poverty if fined so jail is the only
solution for these hypocrites.
....why just pick on Catholics, or does your homosexual community
only have a bias against Christians?
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "spamsux" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 04:41:08 PM |
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"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfqsm7$ort$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...why just pick on Catholics, or does your homosexual community
only have a bias against Christians?
I'm not a homosexual, idiot. If you want to find one, go to the nearest
seminary. You're bound to find a few there.
There aren't many religions out there that have "confessions" and value an
abnormal view on sex like the catholics.
.
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 08:38:18 PM |
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spamsux wrote:
"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfqsm7$ort$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...why just pick on Catholics, or does your homosexual
community only have a bias against Christians?
I'm not a homosexual, idiot. If you want to find one, go to
the nearest seminary. You're bound to find a few there.
....so you are blaming the homosexuals for molesting children?
There aren't many religions out there that have "confessions"
and value an abnormal view on sex like the catholics.
....so you are saying you have no morals on sex at all, yet you
condemn homosexuals for being themselves when they're in the
priesthood?
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "spamsux" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
17 Aug 2004 12:43:58 PM |
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"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfrnib$9bl$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
I'm not a homosexual, idiot. If you want to find one, go to
the nearest seminary. You're bound to find a few there.
...so you are blaming the homosexuals for molesting children?
No, with that question you are. You're trying to claim that the only
homosexuals in your church are the molesters. Wrong. This was exposed by the
media.
There aren't many religions out there that have "confessions"
and value an abnormal view on sex like the catholics.
...so you are saying you have no morals on sex at all, yet you
condemn homosexuals for being themselves when they're in the
priesthood?
They're imposing morals that aren't backed by the bible at all. There's no
demand of celibacy for believers or ministers in there. The apostles
themselves were maried, had kids. Same with the fictional Mary figure the
church has created. Joseph and Mary were maried so they obviously had sex,
and there are passages speaking of Jesus' siblings.
Priests have no business medling into a married couple's use of
contraceptives, whatever Karol says.
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
17 Aug 2004 05:47:32 PM |
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spamsux wrote:
"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfrnib$9bl$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
I'm not a homosexual, idiot. If you want to find one, go
to the nearest seminary. You're bound to find a few
there.
...so you are blaming the homosexuals for molesting
children?
No, with that question you are.
....it seems you think homosexuals are bad people if they become
priests.
You're trying to claim that the only homosexuals in your
church are the molesters. Wrong. This was exposed by the
media.
....the media also exposed that 81% of the molesters where
homosexual, a large majority, many priests have been accused but
never proven guilty.
There aren't many religions out there that have
"confessions" and value an abnormal view on sex like the
catholics.
...so you are saying you have no morals on sex at all, yet
you condemn homosexuals for being themselves when they're
in the priesthood?
They're imposing morals that aren't backed by the bible at
all.
....what do you think 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' means?
There's no demand of celibacy for believers or ministers in
there. The apostles themselves were maried, had kids. Same
with the fictional Mary figure the church has created. Joseph
and Mary were maried so they obviously had sex, and there are
passages speaking of Jesus' siblings.
....how could there be 'siblings' when you claim Mary was
fictional, there is proof that Jesus existed, so obviously Mary
must have existed, and when you say Mary and Joseph had sex
because they where married doesn't prove they had sex at all.
Priests have no business medling into a married couple's use
of contraceptives, whatever Karol says.
....every organization has rules, if you want to be a part of
that organization you have to follow the rules, Catholicism is
no different.
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "spamsux" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
17 Aug 2004 07:44:05 PM |
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"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfu1u3$2uk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...it seems you think homosexuals are bad people if they become
priests.
You can lay off your manipulative crap cause you'll never have me on the
defensive.
Their own scriptures are against homosexuality yet they remain priests, even
when having homosexual sex with other priests, and act like they're better
than married couples who use choose to use condoms. This is definately a
warped hypocricy.
You're trying to claim that the only homosexuals in your
church are the molesters. Wrong. This was exposed by the
media.
...the media also exposed that 81% of the molesters where
homosexual, a large majority, many priests have been accused but
never proven guilty.
Manipulative crap. In the end, all molestion is a crime and so is the
harbouring of these criminals. Why would they be hiding these perverts if
the church needed to be cleansed ? What was the point of keeping them as
priests when they were obviously sinners ?
There aren't many religions out there that have
"confessions" and value an abnormal view on sex like the
catholics.
...so you are saying you have no morals on sex at all, yet
you condemn homosexuals for being themselves when they're
in the priesthood?
You're quite arrogant to assume that I am without morals simply because I am
not catholic. A humble person would not do this. But then you're responses
are as contridictory and hypocritical as Catholism.
They're imposing morals that aren't backed by the bible at
all.
...what do you think 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' means?
That scripture doesn't apply to use of condoms by a married couple. It
doesn't apply to the vow of celibacy either.
There's no demand of celibacy for believers or ministers in
there. The apostles themselves were maried, had kids. Same
with the fictional Mary figure the church has created. Joseph
and Mary were maried so they obviously had sex, and there are
passages speaking of Jesus' siblings.
...how could there be 'siblings' when you claim Mary was
fictional, there is proof that Jesus existed, so obviously Mary
must have existed, and when you say Mary and Joseph had sex
because they where married doesn't prove they had sex at all.
I think it's time you take your medication now.
Priests have no business medling into a married couple's use
of contraceptives, whatever Karol says.
...every organization has rules, if you want to be a part of
that organization you have to follow the rules, Catholicism is
no different.
Oh yes, the "rules" that don't appear to apply to "higher" members of the
church. Nice.
.
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
18 Aug 2004 03:55:21 AM |
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spamsux wrote:
"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfu1u3$2uk$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
...it seems you think homosexuals are bad people if they
become priests.
You can lay off your manipulative crap cause you'll never
have me on the defensive.
....how defensive of you. :)
Their own scriptures are against homosexuality yet they
remain priests, even when having homosexual sex with other
priests, and act like they're better than married couples who
use choose to use condoms. This is definately a warped
hypocricy.
....complain to the homosexual community than because it's the
homosexual activity you are complaining about and condoms have
nothing to do with it.
You're trying to claim that the only homosexuals in your
church are the molesters. Wrong. This was exposed by the
media.
...the media also exposed that 81% of the molesters where
homosexual, a large majority, many priests have been
accused but never proven guilty.
Manipulative crap. In the end, all molestion is a crime and
so is the harbouring of these criminals. Why would they be
hiding these perverts if the church needed to be cleansed ?
What was the point of keeping them as priests when they were
obviously sinners ?
....we are all sinners, even you, you apparently have no mercy on
homosexuals, (who claim to be born with their sexual
orientation), mainly because they chose to become priests. Why
can't you accept the fact that the days of the homosexual in the
priesthood are over, you should be happy with that circumstance,
the Church is.
There aren't many religions out there that have
"confessions" and value an abnormal view on sex like
the catholics.
...so you are saying you have no morals on sex at all,
yet you condemn homosexuals for being themselves when
they're in the priesthood?
You're quite arrogant to assume that I am without morals
simply because I am not catholic.
....not at all, it's because you view sex outside of marriage as
normal and good since you say catholics have an abnormal view on
sex.
A humble person would not do this. But then you're responses
are as contridictory and hypocritical as Catholism.
....how long have you hated Catholics?
They're imposing morals that aren't backed by the bible
at all.
...what do you think 'Thou shalt not commit adultery'
means?
That scripture doesn't apply to use of condoms by a married
couple. It doesn't apply to the vow of celibacy either.
....that commandment pertains to all sex outside of marriage, God
made man to reproduce, and man made condoms to thwart God's gift
of reproduction, and also to stop the spread of STD's when man
has promiscuous sex, still STD's continue to exist and now have
an incurable partner... AIDS. The vow of celibacy IS the
commandment of not to commit adultery.
There's no demand of celibacy for believers or ministers
in there. The apostles themselves were maried, had kids.
Same with the fictional Mary figure the church has
created. Joseph and Mary were maried so they obviously
had sex, and there are passages speaking of Jesus'
siblings.
...how could there be 'siblings' when you claim Mary was
fictional, there is proof that Jesus existed, so obviously
Mary must have existed, and when you say Mary and Joseph
had sex because they where married doesn't prove they had
sex at all.
I think it's time you take your medication now.
....how thoughtful.
Priests have no business medling into a married couple's
use of contraceptives, whatever Karol says.
...every organization has rules, if you want to be a part
of that organization you have to follow the rules,
Catholicism is no different.
Oh yes, the "rules" that don't appear to apply to "higher"
members of the church. Nice.
....they apply to everyone, especially the 'higher' members of
the Church, who will be judged by God according to the authority
they held in the Church.
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "spamsux" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
18 Aug 2004 08:14:43 AM |
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"SunDancer" <SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:cfv5hu$d7m$1@utornnr1pp.grouptelecom.net...
spamsux wrote:
You can lay off your manipulative crap cause you'll never
have me on the defensive.
...how defensive of you. :)
Not really. :)
...complain to the homosexual community than because it's the
homosexual activity you are complaining about and condoms have
nothing to do with it.
Actually, no. I'm complaining about hypocricy within the church and the
church is where the complains should go, especially when it is known that
they are being harboured there and given possitions that alow them to judge
married couples on their use of condoms.
Manipulative crap. In the end, all molestion is a crime and
so is the harbouring of these criminals. Why would they be
hiding these perverts if the church needed to be cleansed ?
What was the point of keeping them as priests when they were
obviously sinners ?
...we are all sinners, even you, you apparently have no mercy on
homosexuals, (who claim to be born with their sexual
orientation), mainly because they chose to become priests. Why
can't you accept the fact that the days of the homosexual in the
priesthood are over, you should be happy with that circumstance,
the Church is.
This is odd. You tell me that I bash homosexuals and in the same paragraph
state that they're being removed from the church because of their
homosexuality.
First things first - The homosexuals aren't being removed. They're getting
old and retiring. These people aren't all molesters, as you claimed.
Second, the problem here is hypocricy, not homosexuality. There are other
things that priests do that is hypocritical. Yes, we aren't perfect but who
are they as imperfect beings to demand people talk to god thru them with
confessionals ? Who are they to impose idiotic rules that aren't in the
bible (ex. no condom use for couples and vows of celibacy) ?
You're quite arrogant to assume that I am without morals
simply because I am not catholic.
...not at all, it's because you view sex outside of marriage as
normal and good since you say catholics have an abnormal view on
sex.
That's the arrogance I was speaking of. I didn't say adultery was
acceptable, you claimed that I said that. I wouldn't claim to speak for god
and condemn them to death because they happen to do it a few times in their
lives.
BTW, I'm not an adulterer either. And HIV/AIDS doesn't only originate from
adultery or drug use.
A humble person would not do this. But then you're responses
are as contridictory and hypocritical as Catholism.
...how long have you hated Catholics?
I don't hate Catholics. Most of my relatives were catholic at one time but
very few of them have faith in that church now. A few on my father's side
still celebrate the holidays and go to church semi regularily but they're
also become disenchanted because of the outright hypocricy of the church.
Most "Catholics" haven't read the bible enough to agree with their beliefs
and those that do read the bible eventually leave so we've got to wonder if
some people who claim to be Catholic are truly Catholic. And no, they don't
leave cause they're "sinners" but because of the scriptures against most of
the catholic traditions. Some even feel they've been lied to for years and
just stop believing in God. I doubt that's good for the "word of God".
The Catholic church is far from humble. Like the Ortadox and many other
religions, it is based on non biblical tradition and theatrics, some of
which are contrary to biblical teachings. For example, idols are condemned
by the bible yet many churches have statues of jesus, mary and saints that
people pray to. The bible clearly states that God wont give his glory to
anyone, including engraven images, and that repetitive chanting is also
frowned upon. You know what scriptures i've speaking of, right ?
...that commandment pertains to all sex outside of marriage, God
made man to reproduce, and man made condoms to thwart God's gift
of reproduction, and also to stop the spread of STD's when man
has promiscuous sex, still STD's continue to exist and now have
an incurable partner... AIDS. The vow of celibacy IS the
commandment of not to commit adultery.
Married couples that use condoms are not adulterers. Nor are priests that
get married.
I think it's time you take your medication now.
...how thoughtful.
You are reading things that aren't there. Hallusinations...
Oh yes, the "rules" that don't appear to apply to "higher"
members of the church. Nice.
...they apply to everyone, especially the 'higher' members of
the Church, who will be judged by God according to the authority
they held in the Church.
The church should not have conceiled them. This isn't a recent problem
either. They have no integrity at all.
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| User: "Ivan Gowch" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 02:04:31 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:17:46 -0400, SunDancer
<SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote:
==>...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics be
==>thrown in jail as pedophiles?
Don't be silly.
I leave that kind of crap to the extremists, the
religious wackos, Repuglicans, fascists, homophobes
and members of the Canadian Reformed Alliance
Party (C.R.A.P.).
--
Better an abortion clinic on every streetcorner
than the birth of one more unwanted child.
-Ivan Gowch
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 08:46:17 PM |
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Ivan Gowch wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:17:46 -0400, SunDancer
<SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote:
==>...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics
be ==>thrown in jail as pedophiles?
Don't be silly.
I leave that kind of crap to the extremists, the religious
wackos, Repuglicans, fascists, homophobes and members of the
Canadian Reformed Alliance Party (C.R.A.P.).
....it's not these people that are condemning Catholics, it's the
left-wing fiberal wacko's like you that hate Catholics that are
rave against them and their Church.
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
.
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| User: "Ivan Gowch" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
19 Aug 2004 02:57:18 PM |
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:46:17 -0400, SunDancer
<SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote:
SDG:
==>> ==>...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics
==>> be ==>thrown in jail as pedophiles?
IG:
==>> Don't be silly.
==>> I leave that kind of crap to the extremists, the religious
==>> wackos, Repuglicans, fascists, homophobes and members of the
==>> Canadian Reformed Alliance Party (C.R.A.P.).
==>...it's not these people that are condemning Catholics, it's the
==>left-wing fiberal wacko's like you that hate Catholics that are
==>rave against them and their Church.
English is obviously not your first language,
as memory and logic are not your greatest strengths.
I have never "condemned Catholics."
I have, however, pointed out that the Roman Catholic
Church is the world's oldest ongoing criminal
conspiracy, as well as the world's oldest, largest
and most powerful organization dedicated to
homosexual pedophilia and all other manner of
child-fucking.
I've never said I hate Catholics -- which I don't.
But I have said that the Catholic Church should be
padlocked, its leaders investigated and, where
justifiable, jailed, and that the church's assets
should be sold off, with the funds realized
distributed as reparations to all the church's known,
living victims, and the families of its dead ones.
Hope this clears things up.
==>
==>--
==>($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
==>An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
==>$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
==>logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
The danger to the life and well-being of children
increases in direct proportion to their proximity
to religion and its practitioners.
-Ivan Gowch
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| User: "SunDancer" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
19 Aug 2004 06:07:16 PM |
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Ivan Gowch wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:46:17 -0400, SunDancer
<SunDancingGuy@netscape.net> wrote:
SDG:
==>> ==>...hey Ivan, when are you going to suggest all Catholics
==>> be ==>thrown in jail as pedophiles?
IG:
==>> Don't be silly.
==>> I leave that kind of crap to the extremists, the religious
==>> wackos, Repuglicans, fascists, homophobes and members of the
==>> Canadian Reformed Alliance Party (C.R.A.P.).
==>...it's not these people that are condemning Catholics, it's the
==>left-wing fiberal wacko's like you that hate Catholics that are
==>rave against them and their Church.
English is obviously not your first language,
as memory and logic are not your greatest strengths.
I have never "condemned Catholics."
I have, however, pointed out that the Roman Catholic
Church is the world's oldest ongoing criminal
conspiracy, as well as the world's oldest, largest
and most powerful organization dedicated to
homosexual pedophilia and all other manner of
child-fucking.
I've never said I hate Catholics -- which I don't.
But I have said that the Catholic Church should be
padlocked, its leaders investigated and, where
justifiable, jailed, and that the church's assets
should be sold off, with the funds realized
distributed as reparations to all the church's known,
living victims, and the families of its dead ones.
Hope this clears things up.
....LOL...it sounds like the same idiocy as you wrote below...
--
($50 million? Where the hell did you get that figure?
An aborton costs about $600. 100,000 x $600 =
$600,000. Seems you failed arithmetic as well as
logic, Lauzon. Why am I not surprised?)
--
-Ivan Gowch
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
16 Aug 2004 05:47:29 AM |
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On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:27:15 -0400, Ivan Gowch
<ivangowch@SPAMTHEENOTyahoo.com> wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Roman Catholic Church.
Not content to rest on its laurels and its
well-deserved reputation as the world's oldest
and biggest organization dedicated to fucking
children, the RCC now wants to dictate
religious fascism to democratic Europe.
I have some advice for European officials whose
responsibilities include having to listen to the likes
of Cardinal Ratfinger and others of the Pope's
Perverts: Instead of giving these miscreants the
time of day, execute a search warrant for the
Vatican. It really is about time. Use the Church's
meddling in the affairs of democracies as an excuse.
They can't. It is techinically a sovreign nation. The European
Countries don't imagine themselves rulers of the world and ignore such
matters on a whim like the US does.
However there are otherw ays: the highups in the EU should hjave told
the Pope as loudly and rudely as possible that it was none of his
business what the proposed EU constitution said.
And the US should have told him to ***** when his church tried to
force US lefgislators to follow the Vatican line on controversial
matters.
One of the problems here is that the Reagan administration came to a
devil's agrement with them inorder to channel support through the
churches in Poland before the ousting of Jaruzelski. The price was US
support for the Vatican positions on birth control, abortion etc in
foreign aid.
And now its interference over Turkey. Again, it is none of its
business. The EU is a secular organisation of Nations, that does not
care what the beliefs of the people in its member states is.
Incidentally, there were news reports thatthe US made diplomatic
promises to get Turkey into the EU in return for support in the attack
on Iraq. Which went down like a lead ballon in France and other member
countries.
Search the ***** place from top to bottom. Pore over
every record and document. Scour the storied
Catacombs -- what is so secret that it must be hidden
from human eyes for hundreds of years? Do the
vaults contain piles of gold and jewels extorted from
Europe's royal houses since medieval times? Do they
conceal the bodies of children abused to death by the
pedophile priests who have used the Church as
their private procurement agency for centuries?
Isn't it about time the world takes a good, hard look
at what is the world's oldest ongoing criminal
conspiracy?
How would they do it?
In order to perform an act of war against it, they would first have to
invade Italy. The only country that might, is Italy themselves. And it
would be up to them, not the world or the US.
And like most other countries apart from the US, Italy has the strange
idea that the sovreignty of other countries is to be respected if you
expect your own to be.
Can it afford not to?
===
Saying No to Turkey
New York Times Editorial
Published: August 15, 2004
Having failed to persuade Europe's leaders to enshrine Christianity in
the final draft of the constitution of the European Union, the Vatican
has found a new way to try to conflate European and Christian
identity. The Holy See would like to block Turkey's candidacy to the
European Union. In an interview last week with Le Figaro magazine, the
Catholic Church's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said that
Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular republic of 70 million people,
is "in permanent contrast to Europe" and that linking it to Europe
would be a mistake. To drive home his point about Turkey's
disqualifying otherness, he cited the Ottoman Empire's incursions into
the heart of Europe in centuries past.
It's none of the Vatican's business. Period.
It will probably try to inflame the Poles and to a lesser extent the
Italians and Irish, as it did when they lied about the EU
constitution.
Each and every time they try to interfere will turn more and more
against it.
Like meddlesome clerics the world over, Cardinal Ratzinger is
inflaming an important political debate. He is elevating religious
differences over political process and personal beliefs over values
that are universal, not a Judeo-Christian monopoly. But unlike other
issues on which the cardinal has recently taken provocative stands -
whether pro-choice Catholic politicians should receive communion, and
women's role in society (he said women are naturals at "listening,
welcoming and waiting") - enlargement of the European Union is outside
the church's purview. In the cardinal's view, Europe is Christian, so
Turkey doesn't belong.
In considering the possible implications of Turkey's membership in the
union, it would be refreshing if the cardinal had chosen to emphasize
the positive potential in combining the best Christian tradition of
charity and the best Muslim tradition of social justice. But he and
his fellow doctrinal conservatives worry most about secularization and
loss of Christian identity, both of which are implied if Turkey joins
the union. Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has
staked his political future on European Union membership, brushed off
the cardinal's comments. When the union decides in December whether to
begin formal accession talks with Turkey, it too should discount the
cardinal's views in favor of the political merits of Turkish
membership. In the meantime, we can all hope that the Catholic Church
will adopt a view that is more, well, catholic.
===
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
17 Aug 2004 08:47:27 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<uv21i0pkjeglp1elq9cgvd496tiug42e2h@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:27:15 -0400, Ivan Gowch
<ivangowch@SPAMTHEENOTyahoo.com> wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Roman Catholic Church.
Not content to rest on its laurels and its
well-deserved reputation as the world's oldest
and biggest organization dedicated to fucking
children, the RCC now wants to dictate
religious fascism to democratic Europe.
I have some advice for European officials whose
responsibilities include having to listen to the likes
of Cardinal Ratfinger and others of the Pope's
Perverts: Instead of giving these miscreants the
time of day, execute a search warrant for the
Vatican. It really is about time. Use the Church's
meddling in the affairs of democracies as an excuse.
They can't. It is techinically a sovreign nation. The European
Countries don't imagine themselves rulers of the world and ignore such
matters on a whim like the US does.
However there are otherw ays: the highups in the EU should hjave told
the Pope as loudly and rudely as possible that it was none of his
business what the proposed EU constitution said.
And the US should have told him to ***** when his church tried to
force US lefgislators to follow the Vatican line on controversial
matters.
Well, I guess it would matter whether the Vatican is part of Italy or
not. If they are truly "sovereign", then they are NOT part of the EU.
Am I missing something?
In order to perform an act of war against it, they would first have to
invade Italy. The only country that might, is Italy themselves. And it
would be up to them, not the world or the US.
Saying No to Turkey
New York Times Editorial
Published: August 15, 2004
Having failed to persuade Europe's leaders to enshrine Christianity in
the final draft of the constitution of the European Union, the Vatican
has found a new way to try to conflate European and Christian
identity. The Holy See would like to block Turkey's candidacy to the
European Union. In an interview last week with Le Figaro magazine, the
Catholic Church's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said that
Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular republic of 70 million people,
is "in permanent contrast to Europe" and that linking it to Europe
would be a mistake. To drive home his point about Turkey's
disqualifying otherness, he cited the Ottoman Empire's incursions into
the heart of Europe in centuries past.
It's none of the Vatican's business. Period.
It will probably try to inflame the Poles and to a lesser extent the
Italians and Irish, as it did when they lied about the EU
constitution.
Each and every time they try to interfere will turn more and more
against it.
Like meddlesome clerics the world over, Cardinal Ratzinger is
inflaming an important political debate. He is elevating religious
differences over political process and personal beliefs over values
that are universal, not a Judeo-Christian monopoly. But unlike other
issues on which the cardinal has recently taken provocative stands -
whether pro-choice Catholic politicians should receive communion, and
women's role in society (he said women are naturals at "listening,
welcoming and waiting") - enlargement of the European Union is outside
the church's purview. In the cardinal's view, Europe is Christian, so
Turkey doesn't belong.
Ratzinger. Wow. He's be at this reactionary business for over twenty
years now.
In considering the possible implications of Turkey's membership in the
union, it would be refreshing if the cardinal had chosen to emphasize
the positive potential in combining the best Christian tradition of
charity and the best Muslim tradition of social justice. But he and
his fellow doctrinal conservatives worry most about secularization and
loss of Christian identity, both of which are implied if Turkey joins
the union. Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has
staked his political future on European Union membership, brushed off
the cardinal's comments. When the union decides in December whether to
begin formal accession talks with Turkey, it too should discount the
cardinal's views in favor of the political merits of Turkish
membership. In the meantime, we can all hope that the Catholic Church
will adopt a view that is more, well, catholic.
===
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Church Pushes For Worldwide Catholic Hegemony |
18 Aug 2004 06:15:38 AM |
|
|
On 17 Aug 2004 18:47:27 -0700, (Hypatia Kosh) wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<uv21i0pkjeglp1elq9cgvd496tiug42e2h@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:27:15 -0400, Ivan Gowch
<ivangowch@SPAMTHEENOTyahoo.com> wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Roman Catholic Church.
Not content to rest on its laurels and its
well-deserved reputation as the world's oldest
and biggest organization dedicated to fucking
children, the RCC now wants to dictate
religious fascism to democratic Europe.
I have some advice for European officials whose
responsibilities include having to listen to the likes
of Cardinal Ratfinger and others of the Pope's
Perverts: Instead of giving these miscreants the
time of day, execute a search warrant for the
Vatican. It really is about time. Use the Church's
meddling in the affairs of democracies as an excuse.
They can't. It is techinically a sovreign nation. The European
Countries don't imagine themselves rulers of the world and ignore such
matters on a whim like the US does.
However there are otherw ays: the highups in the EU should hjave told
the Pope as loudly and rudely as possible that it was none of his
business what the proposed EU constitution said.
And the US should have told him to ***** when his church tried to
force US lefgislators to follow the Vatican line on controversial
matters.
Well, I guess it would matter whether the Vatican is part of Italy or
not. If they are truly "sovereign", then they are NOT part of the EU.
Am I missing something?
The EU members are all sovereign nations who have signed an economic
treaty.
The Vatican is a sovereign nation that is NOT a member of the EU.
At most it can send delegates as part of the Italian delegation - BUT
they would already have to be Italian (not Vatican) diplomats, civil
servants, MEPs etc. Or take the place of regular delegates. Which
would be extremely unlikely.
Any attempt even by Italy to go into the Vatican and clean it up would
be an act of war against a sovereign nation.
This is difficult for many Americans to understand as they see nothing
wrong with the US doing just that, eg in Panama, Iraq etc.
But the rest of the world tends to respect the sovereignty of other
countries - it works both ways, creating international precedents. If
we gang up to force a regime change in another country, we cannot
complain about it when they do it to us.
A colleague who is a former Italian Army captain, and whose father and
father-in-law were both generals, told me that when the Italian Army
pays its respects to the Pope,eg papal funeral, coronation etc it
stands at attention on the Italian side of the line that marks the
"border". The Rome police have no jurisdiction there, either.
The Vatican's own security is handled by the Swiss guards, who count
as mercenaries.
In order to perform an act of war against it, they would first have to
invade Italy. The only country that might, is Italy themselves. And it
would be up to them, not the world or the US.
Saying No to Turkey
New York Times Editorial
Published: August 15, 2004
Having failed to persuade Europe's leaders to enshrine Christianity in
the final draft of the constitution of the European Union, the Vatican
has found a new way to try to conflate European and Christian
identity. The Holy See would like to block Turkey's candidacy to the
European Union. In an interview last week with Le Figaro magazine, the
Catholic Church's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said that
Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular republic of 70 million people,
is "in permanent contrast to Europe" and that linking it to Europe
would be a mistake. To drive home his point about Turkey's
disqualifying otherness, he cited the Ottoman Empire's incursions into
the heart of Europe in centuries past.
It's none of the Vatican's business. Period.
It will probably try to inflame the Poles and to a lesser extent the
Italians and Irish, as it did when they lied about the EU
constitution.
Each and every time they try to interfere will turn more and more
against it.
Like meddlesome clerics the world over, Cardinal Ratzinger is
inflaming an important political debate. He is elevating religious
differences over political process and personal beliefs over values
that are universal, not a Judeo-Christian monopoly. But unlike other
issues on which the cardinal has recently taken provocative stands -
whether pro-choice Catholic politicians should receive communion, and
women's role in society (he said women are naturals at "listening,
welcoming and waiting") - enlargement of the European Union is outside
the church's purview. In the cardinal's view, Europe is Christian, so
Turkey doesn't belong.
Ratzinger. Wow. He's be at this reactionary business for over twenty
years now.
In considering the possible implications of Turkey's membership in the
union, it would be refreshing if the cardinal had chosen to emphasize
the positive potential in combining the best Christian tradition of
charity and the best Muslim tradition of social justice. But he and
his fellow doctrinal conservatives worry most about secularization and
loss of Christian identity, both of which are implied if Turkey joins
the union. Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has
staked his political future on European Union membership, brushed off
the cardinal's comments. When the union decides in December whether to
begin formal accession talks with Turkey, it too should discount the
cardinal's views in favor of the political merits of Turkish
membership. In the meantime, we can all hope that the Catholic Church
will adopt a view that is more, well, catholic.
===
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