Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide

Religions > Atheism > Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide

LINK TO THIS PAGE

rating : 0 | 0

Page 1 of 4

Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"david ford"
Date:	25 Oct 2005 11:03:14 AM
Object:	Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide

Mark Isaak wrote:
[total snip]

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA006_1.html

Claim CA006.1:

Adolf Hitler exploited the racist ideas of Darwinism to
justify genocide.

Source:

Weston-Broome, Sharon. 2001. Louisiana House
Concurrent Resolution no. 74: CIVIL RIGHTS:
Provides relative to racism and education about
racism. HLS 01-2652 ORIGINAL.

Response:

1. Hitler based his ideas not on Darwinism but on
a "divine right" philosophy:

Thus, it [the folkish philosophy] by no means
believes in an equality of races, but along with their
difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value
and feels itself obligated, through this knowledge,
to promote the victory of the better and stronger,
and demand the subordination of the inferior and
weaker in accordance with the eternal will that
dominates this universe. (Hitler 1943, 383)

When Hitler speaks of [Hitler]"God" or [Hitler]"Providence," he's
speaking of:
1) himself, or
2) the German volk/ folk/ people, or
3) the State/ government, or
4) [Hitler]"Nature"/ the world of "Nature"/ the 'natural' world/ the
universe, often referred to in _Mein Kampf_ as a 'she,' or
5) the Judeo-Christian God, which is phony talk, because Hitler
rejects the existence of the Judeo-Christian God and rejects all He
stands for.
Hitler was an adherent of atheism.
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128308336.450775.177530%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

The first edition of Mein Kampf suggests that Hitler
may once have believed in a young earth: "this
planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move
through the ether devoid of men" (p. 65; the second
edition substitutes "millions" for "thousands," and
chapter 11 refers to "hundreds of thousands of
years" of life in another context.) Other passages
further support his creationist leanings:

Hitler encounters the T0E as a child: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118403178.860854.170600%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Stalin encounters the T0E in seminary: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118511187.489582.241590%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

The undermining of the existence of human culture
by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of
a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime.
Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest
image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the
benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes
to the expulsion from paradise. (Hitler 1943, 383)

and

What we must fight for is to safeguard the
existence and reproduction of our race and our
people, . . . so that our people may mature for the
fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of
the universe. (Hitler 1943, 214)

Quotes from Hitler invoking Christianity as a basis
for his actions could be multiplied ad nauseam.

2001 Abraham Foxman: Hitler was a big liar
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1128010617.235272.105530%40g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

For
example:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in
accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by
defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for
the work of the Lord (Hitler 1943, 65).

"[T]he task of preserving and advancing the highest
humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of
the Almighty, seems a truly high mission (Hitler
1943, 398).

A campaign against the "godless movement" and
an appeal for Catholic support were launched
Wednesday by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces
(Associated Press 1933).

Of course, this does not mean that Hitler's ideas
were based on creationism any more than they
were based on evolution. Hitler's ideas were a
perversion of both religion and biology.

"Hitler's ideas were a perversion of... biology." How so?
Hitler's human breeding plan using selection + mutations
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124684179.251743.95950%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124731489.829229.220700%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
2004 Kater
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1126752603.953619.262940%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Himmler, a former chicken farmer..., was ruled by very
strong beliefs regarding the application of breeding
theories to humans-- by way of positive selection for the
"Aryans" and negative selection for their natural enemies,
the Slavs, Gypsies, and Jews.

2. Genocide and racism existed long before
Darwin. Obviously, they did not need any
contribution from Darwinism.

1859 Darwin vs. the Judeo-Christian conception of the unity of man
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120016676.023811.113660%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

In many instances,
such as the Crusades and the Spanish conquest of
Central America, religion was explicitly invoked to
justify them.

3. Evolution does not promote social Darwinism or
racism or eugenics.

Meaning of "evolution"?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-386md9F5lsv5cU1%40individual.net
Hitler's debt to American eugenicists
http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/offSiteArchive/HitlerDebtToAmerica.html
the American eugenics movement, H.G. Wells
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128523609.669113.175570%40g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Sanger: segregate the anti-social and feebleminded
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128629229.811428.173830%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
1933 H.J. Muller: "Hitler is said to have studied the Baur Fischer
Lenz
book [_Human Heredity_] very seriously, and to have been won over to
it"
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1127262825.691025.245670%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
2004 Richard Weikart: "physicians... were committed to a racist
eugenics ideology that the Nazis favored"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407120310.7d3f3929%40posting.google.com

References:

1. Hitler, A. 1943. Mein Kampf. Transl. R.
Manheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
http://www.stormfront.org/books/mein_kampf/ or
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/
2. Associated Press. 1933. Hitler aims blow at
'Godless' move, Lansing State Journal (Michigan),
Feb. 23, 1933. Reprinted at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/unknown/hitler.html

Further Reading:

Toland, John. 1976. Adolf Hitler. Garden City, NY:
Doubleday.

http://www.antievolution.org/people/wre/evc/argresp/hitler.faq and
http://www.antievolution.org/people/wre/evc/argresp/hitler.add

Hitler embraced Darwinian natural selection
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129143372.689763.127020%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Darwin Hitler parallel
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128959733.118706.179680%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Haeckel re: Jesus; Fest on "Social Darwinism in Hitler's thought"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1125598958.059080.62950%40g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
1868 Haeckel and 1941 Hitler parallel
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118920740.543349.176440%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
1868 Haeckel, 2003 Dawkins, 1997 George Williams, 1995 Dennett:
Darwinist atheists/ materialists downgrading the value of human life
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-399aluF5uql89U1%40individual.net
1871 Darwin: [CD]"the civilised races of man"-- e.g. [CD]"the
Caucasian"-- [CD]"will almost certainly exterminate and replace
throughout the world the savage races"-- e.g. [CD]"the negro or
Australian," as in Australian aborigine-- with the end result being
[CD]"man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407060404.711490be%40posting.google.com
Draft 2 of a chronology of Darwinian thought and the march to the Final
Solution
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1122434358.640904.162640%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	25 Oct 2005 12:46:03 PM

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130256194.751602.41450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Mark Isaak wrote:

[total snip]

Darwin's name does not appear once in the entire text of Mein Kampf. Nor
is there any passage that strongly invokes evolution as a guiding
principle. There are, however, a great many that claim that Hitler (and
the Nazis) were doing the work of the Creator.
I think you will find, if you study the history of Germany and its peoples
objectively, that Hitler was only fanning anti-semitic flames that had been
lit centuries before. Indeed we see some of the same violent sentiments
expressed by no less a "Christian" luminary than Martin Luther. Luther did
not invent anti-semitism, but, just as he let his emotions run wild when he
discovered corruption among clergy, he let them run wild when Jews did not
rush to convert to his new religion.

Hitler was an adherent of atheism.
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128308336.450775.177530%
40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

I rather suspect Hitler was NOT an atheist. He may, however, have been a
closet demonolater. There is some fairly strong historical evidence
pointing to that.
As usual, you are digging well into the barrel of lies and
misrepresentations that are used to foster the heresy of young-earth
creationism onto our churches. I'm sure you will be rewarded by your
spiritual master just as you deserve to be.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	25 Oct 2005 05:48:14 PM

Dave Oldridge wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130256194.751602.41450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Mark Isaak wrote:

[total snip]

When Hitler speaks of [Hitler]"God" or [Hitler]"Providence," he's
speaking of:
1) himself, or
2) the German volk/ folk/ people, or
3) the State/ government, or
4) [Hitler]"Nature"/ the world of "Nature"/ the 'natural' world/
the universe, often referred to in _Mein Kampf_ as a 'she,' or
5) the Judeo-Christian God, which is phony talk, because Hitler
rejects the existence of the Judeo-Christian God and rejects all He
stands for.

Darwin's name does not appear once in the entire text of Mein Kampf.
Nor is there any passage that strongly invokes evolution as a
guiding
principle. There are, however, a great many that claim that Hitler
(and the Nazis) were doing the work of the Creator.

I think you will find, if you study the history of Germany and its
peoples objectively, that Hitler was only fanning anti-semitic
flames that had been
lit centuries before. Indeed we see some of the same violent
sentiments
expressed by no less a "Christian" luminary than Martin Luther.
Luther did not invent anti-semitism, but, just as he let his
emotions run wild when he discovered corruption among clergy, he let
them run wild when Jews did not rush to convert to his new religion.

Hitler was an adherent of atheism.

http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128308336.450775.177530%

40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

I rather suspect Hitler was NOT an atheist. He may, however, have
been a
closet demonolater. There is some fairly strong historical evidence
pointing to that.

As usual, you are digging well into the barrel of lies and
misrepresentations that are used to foster the heresy of young-earth
creationism onto our churches. I'm sure you will be rewarded by
your spiritual master just as you deserve to be.

At the turn of the century, Paul Legarde, Ludwig Woltmann
Julius Langbehn and others popularized Gobineaus racist
theories in Germany. This Aryan ideology was popular and Hitler
had Legarde's book. Well marked by Hitler, in his library.
Legarde thought that Germans should ethnically cleanse Germany
of Jews, among other things.
Langbehn was a popularizer of Aryan and nationalistic
racist and the idea of a German volkish state free of
racial impurity.
This racism was also popular among some occult groups
who found parallels in ideas like Theosophy's
idea of successive root races. Which also had adopted
Gobineaus Aryan claims of superior races.
Darwin does not figure into this, but the Darwin
haters refuse to admit the real root of German racism and
ideas of ethnic cleansing.
The Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world were where
Hitler and othe Nazi's got their ideas for a holocaust
based on race.
Another precursor of Naziism was one Paul de Lagarde (1827-91), a
professor of Oriental languages at the University of Gottingen. He
was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was deeply confused,
and when it came to deeper subjects such as ethics, truth, and God he
knew no more than the average man on the street. In the church today
there is far too much reverence for "scholars," whose wisdom is
seldom proportionate to their book learning.
Returning to Professor Lagarde, one source labelled him a
"Protestant," although like many 19th-century German "Protestants" he
seems to have had little time for the bible and no real enthusiasm
for the principles of the Reformation. He was however intoxicated
with the idea of German supremacy, and (although such things are hard
to pin down) has been said to have invented the phrase "Master Race"
to describe the Germans. He advocated German domination of Central
Europe and the Balkans, due to the need for Lebensraum, and was not
only quoted by the Nazis, but was considered by them to be one of
their forerunner
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "david ford"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	26 Oct 2005 11:02:08 AM

wbarwell wrote:

"Gobineaus Aryan claims"
Reference?

Darwin does not figure into this, but the Darwin
haters refuse to admit the real root of German racism and
ideas of ethnic cleansing.

The Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world were where
Hitler and othe Nazi's got their ideas for a holocaust
based on race.

Where did "the Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world" get 'scientific'
support for their racial ideas?
Darwin, Charles. 1859. _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural
Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for
Life_ (London: John Murray), 513pp.

Another precursor of Naziism was one Paul de Lagarde (1827-91), a
professor of Oriental languages at the University of Gottingen. He
was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was deeply confused,
and when it came to deeper subjects such as ethics, truth, and God he
knew no more than the average man on the street. In the church today
there is far too much reverence for "scholars," whose wisdom is
seldom proportionate to their book learning.

"Lagarde.... was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was
deeply confused"
1985 Gould: "we professionals are adrift ourselves in many areas"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-b1c67abe.0411221033.48b47b7a%40posting.google.com

Returning to Professor Lagarde, one source labelled him a
"Protestant," although like many 19th-century German "Protestants" he
seems to have had little time for the bible and no real enthusiasm
for the principles of the Reformation.

"like many 19th-century German 'Protestants' he seems to have had
little time for the bible"
theological disputes among German Protestants; Nazi concentration camps
for Catholics and Protestants
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129228612.176548.107730%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

He was however intoxicated
with the idea of German supremacy, and (although such things are hard
to pin down) has been said to have invented the phrase "Master Race"
to describe the Germans. He advocated German domination of Central
Europe and the Balkans, due to the need for Lebensraum, and was not
only quoted by the Nazis, but was considered by them to be one of
their forerunner

Is there a continuation?
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	26 Oct 2005 12:56:06 PM

david ford wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

"Gobineaus Aryan claims"
Reference?

Comte Arthur Gobineau's book "Essays on the Inequality of
the Human Races".

Where did "the Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world" get
'scientific' support for their racial ideas?

From Gobineau and his fellow racists and those
preceeded him. At the time Gobineau wrote his massive
racist tome, numerous other writers started picking up
that theme and a number of racist organizations were formed
to peddle these racist claims.
Do your homework!
Do your homework!
You have NO business smearing Darwin with ***** and lies
when you have NOT bothered to look for the real roots of Nazi
racism and ethnic cleansing!
Your ignorance is massive, deep and near total.
Gobineau's claim of Aryan Germans fed German arrogance
and callousness, not Darwin. 3 decades before Mien Kampf,
all the features of Nazi hate and genocide were written
out by the German intellectual descedents of Gobineau.
None of it came from Darwin as you lie.
You are simply bigoted, nasty hateful and wrong, wrong, wrong.
I have known of Gobineauian racism for decades now. How
you Darwin haters manage to avoid all knowledge of this
is something I do not know how you manage.

Another precursor of Nazism was one Paul de Lagarde (1827-91), a
professor of Oriental languages at the University of Gottingen. He
was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was deeply
confused, and when it came to deeper subjects such as ethics,
truth, and God he knew no more than the average man on the street.
In the church today there is far too much reverence for "scholars,"
whose wisdom is seldom proportionate to their book learning.

"Lagarde.... was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was
deeply confused"

1985 Gould: "we professionals are adrift ourselves in many areas"

Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder and Nazism as you lie.
Spewing orrelevant quotes so yoy do not have to contemplate
your gross libels and errors and ignoarnce is evil.
You spew hate this way, the same sort of error that racists
in Germany did to Jews, and see what hate does when combined
with lies and errors and bad judgment?
If this is christianity, this hate and utter ignorance, then
to hell with christianity.
And what was the holocaust but one more christian pogrom?
Which there have been many of history.
Will you not learn from history?
Hate and lies cause evil.

Returning to Professor Lagarde, one source labelled him a
"Protestant," although like many 19th-century German "Protestants"
he seems to have had little time for the bible and no real
enthusiasm for the principles of the Reformation.

"like many 19th-century German 'Protestants' he seems to have had
little time for the bible"

He was however intoxicated
with the idea of German supremacy, and (although such things are
hard to pin down) has been said to have invented the phrase "Master
Race" to describe the Germans. He advocated German domination of
Central Europe and the Balkans, due to the need for Lebensraum, and
was not only quoted by the Nazis, but was considered by them to be
one of their forerunner

Is there a continuation?

Google for it.....
Lagarde was a popularizer of 'scientific racism'. One of several.
These men repackaged Gobineau into programs of genocide and
holocaust.
Hitler and the Nazis didn't invent anything, it was
all laid out for them and the masses primed.
The Slavs were untermenschen, useless beasts on lands
the master race needed and deserved.
This is what the masses had been told, this was what
the Nazis believed and why they could contemplate
invading Poland, the Ukraine, Russia and callously
kill millions.
Darwin had nothing to do with it.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "david ford"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	31 Oct 2005 12:47:39 PM

wbarwell wrote:

david ford wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

"Gobineaus Aryan claims"
Reference?

Comte Arthur Gobineau's book "Essays on the Inequality of
the Human Races".

How much of "Gobineau's book" have you read?
And which version-- the 4-volume or the later 2-volume edition?

Where did "the Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world" get
'scientific' support for their racial ideas?

"At the time Gobineau wrote his massive racist tome, numerous other
writers started picking up that theme"
Dates?
I'm looking at titles of racialist [Hayes on 257]"treatises" from these
years:
1871, 1875, 1875, 1883, 1877/79, 1885, 1885, 1893, 1893, 1895/1900,
1896-1905, 1899-1908, 1902, 1903, 1904.

Do your homework!
Do your homework!

You have NO business smearing Darwin with ***** and lies
when you have NOT bothered to look for the real roots of Nazi
racism and ethnic cleansing!

Do you consider Darwin's prophet in Germany, the atheism-adherent and
propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel, "another precursor of Nazism"?
I note that the blond, good-looking, and athletic Haeckel visited 'god'
i.e. Darwin twice.[Shipman, 76-77]
Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.
Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-37f8trF5cdutnU1%40individual.net

Your ignorance is massive, deep and near total.

Now that I did know.

Gobineau's claim of Aryan Germans fed German arrogance
and callousness, not Darwin. 3 decades before Mien Kampf,
all the features of Nazi hate and genocide were written
out by the German intellectual descedents of Gobineau.
None of it came from Darwin as you lie.

You are simply bigoted, nasty hateful and wrong, wrong, wrong.

I have known of Gobineauian racism for decades now. How
you Darwin haters manage to avoid all knowledge of this
is something I do not know how you manage.

"Lagarde.... was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was
deeply confused"

1985 Gould: "we professionals are adrift ourselves in many areas"

Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder and Nazism as you lie.

"Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder"
Do you consider Goebbels and Himmler "Darwinists"?
1943 Goebbels: a "process of selection between the strong and the
weak"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120450591.444214.186670%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
2004 Kater
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1126752603.953619.262940%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Himmler, a former chicken farmer..., was ruled by very
strong beliefs regarding the application of breeding
theories to humans-- by way of positive selection for the
"Aryans" and negative selection for their natural enemies,
the Slavs, Gypsies, and Jews.

Spewing orrelevant quotes so yoy do not have to contemplate
your gross libels and errors and ignoarnce is evil.

You spew hate this way, the same sort of error that racists
in Germany did to Jews, and see what hate does when combined
with lies and errors and bad judgment?

If this is christianity, this hate and utter ignorance, then
to hell with christianity.

"then to hell with christianity."
Do you agree with this Hitler?:
Hitler, Adolf, during meal times to his innermost circle plus the
occasional reliable guest, e.g. Himmler, as prepared by Hitler's
secretary Martin Bormann. 1953. _Hitler's Secret Conversations:
1941-1944_, translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, with an
introductory essay "The Mind of Adolf Hitler" by H.R. Trevor-Roper (NY:
Farrar, Straus and Young), 597pp.
On 57, from the entry for the evening of 17 October 1941:
The precept that it's men's duty to love one another is
theory-- and the Christians are the last to practise it!
A negro baby who has the misfortune to
die before a missionary gets his clutches on him, goes
to Hell! If that were true, one might well lament that
sorrowful destiny: to have lived only three years, and
to burn for all eternity with Lucifer!
the Koran on hell; link to
"Christianity" is not monolithic when it comes to the nature of hell.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3720ncF56q00hU1%40individual.net

And what was the holocaust but one more christian pogrom?
Which there have been many of history.
Will you not learn from history?

Hate and lies cause evil.

Do you think Haeckel's "lies cause[d] evil"?
Haeckel's fraudulent embryo depictions; 1956 Goldschmidt
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-38m3vrF5o7bk2U1%40individual.net

Returning to Professor Lagarde, one source labelled him a
"Protestant," although like many 19th-century German "Protestants"
he seems to have had little time for the bible and no real
enthusiasm for the principles of the Reformation.

"like many 19th-century German 'Protestants' he seems to have had
little time for the bible"

He was however intoxicated
with the idea of German supremacy, and (although such things are
hard to pin down) has been said to have invented the phrase "Master
Race" to describe the Germans. He advocated German domination of
Central Europe and the Balkans, due to the need for Lebensraum, and
was not only quoted by the Nazis, but was considered by them to be
one of their forerunner

Is there a continuation?

Google for it.....

Lagarde was a popularizer of 'scientific racism'. One of several.
These men repackaged Gobineau into programs of genocide and
holocaust.

Hitler and the Nazis didn't invent anything, it was
all laid out for them and the masses primed.
The Slavs were untermenschen, useless beasts on lands
the master race needed and deserved.

This is what the masses had been told, this was what
the Nazis believed and why they could contemplate
invading Poland, the Ukraine, Russia and callously
kill millions.

Darwin had nothing to do with it.

Do you agree with any of this Haeckel?:
Haeckel, Ernst. 1900. _The Riddle of the Universe: At the
Close of the Nineteenth Century_, translated by Joseph
McCabe. (NY: Harper & Brothers Publishers), 391pp. On 328:
....on familiar principles of science, we put aside the
notion of supernatural conception through an
"overshadowing of the Most High" as a pure myth....
The statement of the apocryphal gospels, that the
Roman officer, Pandera, was the true father of
Christ, seems all the more credible when we make a
careful anthropological study of the personality of
Christ. He is generally regarded as purely Jewish.
Yet the characteristics which distinguish his high
and noble personality, and which give a distinct
impress to his religion, are certainly not Semitical;
they are rather features of the higher Arian race,
and especially of its noblest branch, the Hellenes.
Do you think that [Haeckel]"on familiar principles of science," someone
can reasonably [Haeckel]"put aside the notion of supernatural"
fill-in-the-blank [Haeckel]"as a pure myth"?
Timeline of Materialism, Spontaneous Generation, and Blindwatchmaking
Views
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-348jecF47mfcjU1%40individual.net
Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying in
the New Testament?
Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]"the characteristics which
distinguish his [Jesus'] high and noble personality... are certainly
not Semitical; they are rather features of the higher Arian race"?
Do you think the New Testament is a pack of lies/ [Haeckel]"pure myth"?
Do you think the Jewish Old Testament is a pack of lies/ [Haeckel]"pure
myth"?
Do you think the Jewish [Haeckel on 264]"Mosaic story of creation" is
[Haeckel]"pure myth"?
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
2-pronged role of Darwinian thought in Holocaust's arrival
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1125723152.824465.111490%40g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Barzun, Jacques. 1941. _Darwin, Marx, Wagner: Critique of a Heritage_
(Boston: Little, Brown and Company), 420pp., 104.
Prager, Dennis and Joseph Telushkin. 1983. _Why the Jews?: The
Reason for Antisemitism_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 238pp., 159-161.
Hayes, Carlton J. H. 1941. _A Generation of Materialism: 1871-1900_
(NY and London: Harper & Brothers Publishers), 390pp., 259-260.
Hitler, Adolf. _Mein Kampf_ at
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch10.html
There were not a few who saw things blackly in this
respect and flayed the planlessness and
heedlessness of the Reich's policies, and well
recognized their inner weakness and hollowness
but these were only outsiders in political life; the
official government authorities passed by the
observations of a Houston Stewart Chamberlain
with the same indifference as still occurs today.
These people are too stupid to think anything for
themselves and too conceited to learn what is
necessary from others-- an age-old truth which
caused Oxenstierna to cry out: 'The world is
governed by a mere fraction of wisdom'; and indeed
nearly every ministerial secretary embodies only an
atom of this fraction.
See also Manheim's note accompanying this text, on 269-270 of my copy;
the chapter ends on 283.
Also, 268 has remarks very similar to Hitler remarks in the 1941-44
book.
1941-44:
Hitler, Adolf, during meal times to his innermost circle plus the
occasional reliable guest, e.g. Himmler, as prepared by Hitler's
secretary Martin Bormann. 1953. _Hitler's Secret Conversations:
1941-1944_, translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, with an
introductory essay "The Mind of Adolf Hitler" by H.R. Trevor-Roper (NY:
Farrar, Straus and Young), 597pp., entries for 21 October 1941 and 13
December 1941 (i.e. pages 63 and 119).
Antisemitism was prevalent in European intellectual circles in the
early years of the 1900s.
Karl Marx and numerous other socialists were strongly antisemitic
throughout
the 1800s. Refs:
Prager & Telushkin, 137-142.
Marx, Karl. 1959. _A World without Jews_, translated from the
original
German, with an introduction and an epilogue by Dagobert D. Runes,
fourth, enlarged edition (New York: Philosophical Library), 83pp.
about whether Jesus was a Jew:
secular leftist individuals having Jewish ancestors
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1129867015.194883.157910%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Re: socialists:
who is a "socialist"?; some atheism adherents' development and use of
brutal terror tactics
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128703737.434501.234400%40g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	31 Oct 2005 07:11:37 PM

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130784459.443801.284950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

wbarwell wrote:

david ford wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

"Gobineaus Aryan claims"
Reference?

Comte Arthur Gobineau's book "Essays on the Inequality of
the Human Races".

How much of "Gobineau's book" have you read?
And which version-- the 4-volume or the later 2-volume edition?

Where did "the Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world" get
'scientific' support for their racial ideas?

"At the time Gobineau wrote his massive racist tome, numerous other
writers started picking up that theme"
Dates?
I'm looking at titles of racialist [Hayes on 257]"treatises" from
these years:
1871, 1875, 1875, 1883, 1877/79, 1885, 1885, 1893, 1893, 1895/1900,
1896-1905, 1899-1908, 1902, 1903, 1904.

Do your homework!
Do your homework!

You have NO business smearing Darwin with ***** and lies
when you have NOT bothered to look for the real roots of Nazi
racism and ethnic cleansing!

Do you consider Darwin's prophet in Germany, the atheism-adherent and
propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel, "another precursor of Nazism"?
I note that the blond, good-looking, and athletic Haeckel visited
'god' i.e. Darwin twice.[Shipman, 76-77]

Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.

Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-37f8trF5cdutnU1%40individua
l.net

Your ignorance is massive, deep and near total.

Now that I did know.

Another precursor of Nazism was one Paul de Lagarde (1827-91), a
professor of Oriental languages at the University of Gottingen. He
was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was deeply
confused, and when it came to deeper subjects such as ethics,
truth, and God he knew no more than the average man on the street.
In the church today there is far too much reverence for
"scholars," whose wisdom is seldom proportionate to their book
learning.

"Lagarde.... was a real scholar, but like some other scholars was
deeply confused"

1985 Gould: "we professionals are adrift ourselves in many areas"

Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder and Nazism as you lie.

"Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder"
Do you consider Goebbels and Himmler "Darwinists"?

I don't know anyone who does. The whole Nazi effort was an attempt to
use machine guns and human technology to THWART the natural evolution of
the human species. And that natural evolution, given our instincts and
the increased ease of global transportation has been tending towards a
more broadly diverse and distributed gene pool with fewer distinct
regional clumpings. In short, far from becoming a number of distinct
species, we are becoming one very homogeneous species where the
variations are found everywhere throughout the population. This is
actually healthy from a genetic standpoint.
You'll notice that every mass murderer who even attempts to use evolution
for his excuse has his own idea of what's fit and what's not. It's
usually wrong, too. Just ask any descendant of Adolf Hitler.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	31 Oct 2005 08:49:32 PM

Dave Oldridge wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130784459.443801.284950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

wbarwell wrote:

david ford wrote:

wbarwell wrote:

"Gobineaus Aryan claims"
Reference?

Comte Arthur Gobineau's book "Essays on the Inequality of
the Human Races".

How much of "Gobineau's book" have you read?
And which version-- the 4-volume or the later 2-volume edition?

Where did "the Legarde's and Woltmann's of the world" get
'scientific' support for their racial ideas?

"At the time Gobineau wrote his massive racist tome, numerous other
writers started picking up that theme"
Dates?
I'm looking at titles of racialist [Hayes on 257]"treatises" from
these years:
1871, 1875, 1875, 1883, 1877/79, 1885, 1885, 1893, 1893, 1895/1900,
1896-1905, 1899-1908, 1902, 1903, 1904.

Do your homework!
Do your homework!

You have NO business smearing Darwin with ***** and lies
when you have NOT bothered to look for the real roots of Nazi
racism and ethnic cleansing!

Do you consider Darwin's prophet in Germany, the atheism-adherent
and propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel, "another precursor of
Nazism"? I note that the blond, good-looking, and athletic Haeckel
visited 'god' i.e. Darwin twice.[Shipman, 76-77]

Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences
and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On
95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.

Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-37f8trF5cdutnU1%40individua

l.net

Your ignorance is massive, deep and near total.

Now that I did know.

Another precursor of Nazism was one Paul de Lagarde (1827-91),
a professor of Oriental languages at the University of
Gottingen. He was a real scholar, but like some other scholars
was deeply confused, and when it came to deeper subjects such
as ethics, truth, and God he knew no more than the average man
on the street. In the church today there is far too much
reverence for "scholars," whose wisdom is seldom proportionate
to their book learning.

"Lagarde.... was a real scholar, but like some other scholars
was deeply confused"

1985 Gould: "we professionals are adrift ourselves in many
areas"

Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder and Nazism as you lie.

"Darwinists do not prescribe mass murder"
Do you consider Goebbels and Himmler "Darwinists"?

I don't know anyone who does. The whole Nazi effort was an attempt
to use machine guns and human technology to THWART the natural
evolution of
the human species. And that natural evolution, given our instincts
and the increased ease of global transportation has been tending
towards a more broadly diverse and distributed gene pool with fewer
distinct
regional clumpings. In short, far from becoming a number of
distinct species, we are becoming one very homogeneous species where
the
variations are found everywhere throughout the population. This is
actually healthy from a genetic standpoint.

You'll notice that every mass murderer who even attempts to use
evolution
for his excuse has his own idea of what's fit and what's not. It's
usually wrong, too. Just ask any descendant of Adolf Hitler.

Oddly enough, it was the Jews success that seemed to
***** off German's of Hitler's day. Despite laws denying
them rights to buy land or join guilds, and pogroms, and
other discriminary laws, the Jews get being successes.
They became doctors, lawyers, manufactors, merchants,
bankers and kept prospering. During post WWI, lots
of Jews abandoned the small towns and villages for big
cities especially Berlin. Jews, long familar with vagaries
of finance in countries where they were hated, kept money
distributed and kept it in easily liquid forms that held
value during hyperinflation of the early 20's. They borrowed
this hard cash to buy land and bankrupt businesses at
bargain prices. By the 30's Jews were doing quite well
and this cause great anger and bigitru to erupt in
Germany.
Their very successes caused the angry bigots to be heeded
by resentful herrenvolk who were all too often failures
at these games.
If the Germans really were driven by evolution, they would have
recognized Jews as Darwinian successes and ubermenchen.
The Jew's successes in science, academia, art and literature
would have accentuated their superiority and rights of Darwinan
dominance.
Unfortunately for the Jews, the Germans were not aware of Darwin.
All they knew were the bitter rants of the mentally unbalanced
anti-Semites.
Ford is full of *****.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "Ben Standeven"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	31 Oct 2005 07:17:01 PM

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying in
the New Testament?

Do you agree with this Jesus?:
| But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing
| again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children
| of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
| Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
| Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not
| be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
| Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,
| and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom.
| For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to
| you again.
Are you (Jesus)"kind to the unthankful and to the evil"?

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]"the characteristics which
distinguish his [Jesus'] high and noble personality... are certainly
not Semitical; they are rather features of the higher Arian race"?

Do you think the New Testament is a pack of lies/ [Haeckel]"pure myth"?

Do you think the Jewish Old Testament is a pack of lies/ [Haeckel]"pure
myth"?

Have you read the Jewish Old Testament? Was it the 24-volume version,
or the 204-volume version?
.

User: "Tracy Hamilton"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	01 Nov 2005 06:07:29 PM

Ben Standeven wrote:

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying in
the New Testament?

Do you agree with this Jesus?:
| But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing
| again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children
| of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
| Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
| Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not
| be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
| Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,
| and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom.
| For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to
| you again.

Are you (Jesus)"kind to the unthankful and to the evil"?

Awesome imitation of David Ford's posting "style"!
ROTFL

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]

[snip blah, blah blah]
Tracy P. Hamilton
.

User: "david ford"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	01 Nov 2005 09:35:51 PM

Tracy Hamilton wrote:

Ben Standeven wrote:

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying in
the New Testament?

Do you agree with this Jesus?:
| But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing
| again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children
| of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
| Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
| Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not
| be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
| Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,
| and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom.
| For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to
| you again.

Are you (Jesus)"kind to the unthankful and to the evil"?

Awesome imitation of David Ford's posting "style"!

ROTFL

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]

[snip blah, blah blah]

Do you agree with Darwin that there is a [Darwin]"Preservation of
Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"?
Darwin, Charles. 1859. _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural
Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for
Life_ (London: John Murray), 513pp.
Darwin's prophet in Germany was the atheism-adherent and
propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel.
Tracy, are you glad Haeckel had tremendous success in promoting atheism
in Germany?
Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 134:
Haeckel was a particularly outspoken anti-Semite.... The
influence of Haeckel's anti-Semitic views on German
society and the Nazi party was immense because of his
huge personal following and high scientific standing.
The blond, good-looking, and athletic Haeckel visited 'god'
i.e. Darwin twice.[Shipman, 76-77]
Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.
Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-37f8trF5cdutnU1%40individual.net
Haeckel and Buchner and a Darwinian a-moral climate
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118315214.069039.280490%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Haeckel, Ernst. 1900. _The Riddle of the Universe: At the
Close of the Nineteenth Century_, translated by Joseph
McCabe. (NY: Harper & Brothers Publishers), 391pp. On 328:
....on familiar principles of science, we put aside the
notion of supernatural conception through an
"overshadowing of the Most High" as a pure myth....
The statement of the apocryphal gospels, that the
Roman officer, Pandera, was the true father of
Christ, seems all the more credible when we make a
careful anthropological study of the personality of
Christ. He is generally regarded as purely Jewish.
Yet the characteristics which distinguish his high
and noble personality, and which give a distinct
impress to his religion, are certainly not Semitical;
they are rather features of the higher Arian race,
and especially of its noblest branch, the Hellenes.
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	02 Nov 2005 12:37:14 AM

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130902551.072039.88270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Tracy Hamilton wrote:

Ben Standeven wrote:

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying
in the New Testament?

Do you agree with this Jesus?:
| But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for
| nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be
| the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful
| and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is
| merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and
| ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
| Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down,
| and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom.
| For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be
| measured to you again.

Are you (Jesus)"kind to the unthankful and to the evil"?

Awesome imitation of David Ford's posting "style"!

ROTFL

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]

[snip blah, blah blah]

Do you agree with Darwin that there is a [Darwin]"Preservation of
Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"?

Yep...of course the word meant subspecies, and was not particularly
associated with skin melanin the way you racist pigs see it.

Darwin, Charles. 1859. _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural
Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for
Life_ (London: John Murray), 513pp.

Darwin's prophet in Germany was the atheism-adherent and
propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel.

Darwin did not OWN Haeckel. Nor was Haeckel a prophet. YOU, on the
other hand are the false prophet of latter-day anti-intellectualism. You
will pay for your sins of false witness in a lake of fire, according to
the Bible.

Tracy, are you glad Haeckel had tremendous success in promoting
atheism in Germany?

No, but YOU no doubt are because you can use the fact to promote your own
brand of pseudo-Christian fascism.

Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 134:
Haeckel was a particularly outspoken anti-Semite.... The
influence of Haeckel's anti-Semitic views on German
society and the Nazi party was immense because of his
huge personal following and high scientific standing.

The blond, good-looking, and athletic Haeckel visited 'god'
i.e. Darwin twice.[Shipman, 76-77]

Aw, gee...now we're supposed to hate Darwin because Haeckel was blond and
good looking. Where did you learn the fine art of appealing to emotions
instead of actually dealing with the SCIENCE of evolution?

Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and
the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp. On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.

Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.

LIAR. Darwin wrote several books wherein he explained his own ideas
quite clearly. They are considerably LESS racist than the writings of
some of the spiritual ancestors of your own movement were at the time.
I mean this was about the time that the Southern Baptists were
dissociating themselves from the "evil abolitionists" of the north.
Why isn't THAT important? Why did the father of modern latter-day young-
earth creationism write that the descendants of Ham were genetically
predisposed to be servants?
Why is it that, being unable to deal with the science of evolution, you
resort to such transparent attempts at the argumentum ad hominem fallacy?
Do you understand that such deviations from honest logic are DECEPTION?
Do you understand that such deception is a form of the sin of FALSE
WITNESS? Do you understand that exaggerating Darwin's racism (which,
compared to most of his contemporaries, including your own spiritual
ancestors was virtually non-existent, as demonstrated by his own
writings) is egregious FALSE WITNESS? The fact that the man is dead does
not exonerate you before Almighty God. Why is your contempt for God so
great? When will you purge your contempt? When you are a denizen of the
lake of fire, perhaps?
Or are you just secretly signalling to the atheists whose groups you have
included in the header that you are secretly one of them and are just
acting this way to cast Christianity in a bad light?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "david ford"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	02 Nov 2005 08:46:01 AM

Dave Oldridge wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130902551.072039.88270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Tracy Hamilton wrote:

Ben Standeven wrote:

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as saying
in the New Testament?

Awesome imitation of David Ford's posting "style"!

ROTFL

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]

[snip blah, blah blah]

Do you agree with Darwin that there is a [Darwin]"Preservation of
Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"?

Yep...of course the word meant subspecies, and was not particularly
associated with skin melanin the way you racist pigs see it.

"the word meant subspecies, and was not particularly associated with
skin melanin"
What does [1871 Darwin]"races" mean?
1871 Darwin: [CD]"the civilised races of man"-- e.g. [CD]"the
Caucasian"-- [CD]"will almost certainly exterminate and replace
throughout the world the savage races"-- e.g. [CD]"the negro or
Australian," as in Australian aborigine-- with the end result being
[CD]"man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407060404.711490be%40posting.google.com
Do you consider Darwin one of these "racist pigs"?
Darwin, Charles. 1859. _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural
Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for
Life_ (London: John Murray), 513pp.

Darwin, Charles. 1859. _On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural
Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for
Life_ (London: John Murray), 513pp.

Darwin's prophet in Germany was the atheism-adherent and
propagandist maestro Ernst Haeckel.

Darwin did not OWN Haeckel. Nor was Haeckel a prophet.

Do you consider T.H. Huxley "a prophet" of Darwin?
Tristram in 1860, in
Darwin's bible; Hsu
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3a18k3F66sgjpU1%40individual.net
....the argument of noise and sneers with which
(Darwinists) tried to put down... everyone... who did not
subscribe to the infallibility of the God Darwin
and his prophet Huxley....
Do you consider _any_ of Darwin's disciples "a prophet"?
1966 White
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990214111525.14909A-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
....nor are we likely to make
much further progress in this by the classical methods of
paleontology or biology; and we shall certainly not advance matters
by jumping up and down shrilling 'Darwin is God and I, So-and-so,
am his prophet'....

YOU, on the
other hand are the false prophet of latter-day anti-intellectualism.

Do you consider me a bigot?
Dobzhansky and Simpson on bigotry
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.4.10A.B3.9908202237180.716616-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu

You
will pay for your sins of false witness in a lake of fire, according to
the Bible.

"according to the Bible" exactly where?
Do you think "the Bible" is a pack of lies?

Tracy, are you glad Haeckel had tremendous success in promoting
atheism in Germany?

No, but YOU no doubt are because you can use the fact to promote your own
brand of pseudo-Christian fascism.

"your [df's] own brand of pseudo-Christian fascism"
Do you agree with any of this Maff?:
[maff]"But your [df's] Christian fascist organization will still be
pursued in both U.S. and or ICC despite your [df's] evasion." Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-35bcc1F4j6a0cU1%40individual.net
[maff in June 2004]"Christian Taliban leaders were defeated in the
Civil
War. This time they're going to be wiped off from the face off the
Earth."
Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406291613.6fc5b18d%40posting.google.com
[maff]"I don't think anyone will mourn the death of Christan Taliban
historian, David Ford." Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406291601.455e9ae%40posting.google.com
[df]"Do you think that I [df] will be arrested and tried in [m]'the
Courts'?"
[maff]"Thta's for the Grand Jury to decide, Christian fascist scum."
Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-352mclF4hphbdU1%40individual.net

Meaning of "evolution"?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-386md9F5lsv5cU1%40individual.net

LIAR. Darwin wrote several books wherein he explained his own ideas
quite clearly.

"Darwin... explained his own ideas quite clearly." To illustrate, see:
1871 Darwin backtracks a bit on his theory of NS
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.44L.01.0310120131230.26092-100000%40linux1.gl.umbc.edu
1959 Gertrude Himmelfarb on 1871 Darwin backtracking; 1892 Henry de
Varigny
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0312222212.4728f71b%40posting.google.com

They are considerably LESS racist than the writings of
some of the spiritual ancestors of your own movement were at the time.

Do you think Darwin or Haeckel were "some of the spiritual ancestors
of" Nazi Germany?
Goebbels diary entry for 13 May 1943
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120450591.444214.186670%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
One might well ask why are there any Jews in the world order?
That would be exactly like asking why are there potato bugs?
Nature is dominated by the law of struggle. There will always
be parasites who will spur this struggle on and intensify the
process of selection between the strong and the weak. The
principle of struggle dominates also in human life. One must
merely know the laws of this struggle to be able to face it. ....
In nature life always takes measures against parasites; in the life
of nations that is not always the case. From this fact the Jewish
peril actually stems. There is therefore no other recourse left
for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew....
....we are forever members of the Aryan race. .... Aboriginal
man, the Fuehrer believes, did not know the lie....
The nations that have been the first to see through the Jew and
have been the first to fight him are going to take his place in the
domination of the world.
Hitler's human breeding plan using selection + mutations
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124684179.251743.95950%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124731489.829229.220700%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
2004 Kater
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1126752603.953619.262940%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Himmler, a former chicken farmer..., was ruled by very
strong beliefs regarding the application of breeding
theories to humans-- by way of positive selection for the
"Aryans" and negative selection for their natural enemies,
the Slavs, Gypsies, and Jews.
Draft 2 of a chronology of Darwinian thought and the march to the Final
Solution
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1122434358.640904.162640%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

I mean this was about the time that the Southern Baptists were
dissociating themselves from the "evil abolitionists" of the north.

What are the names of some of these more-prominent "Southern Baptists"?
As far as you know, were there any atheism-adherents among these
"abolitionists... of the north"?

Why isn't THAT important? Why did the father of modern latter-day young-
earth creationism write that the descendants of Ham were genetically
predisposed to be servants?

Why is it that, being unable to deal with the science of evolution, you
resort to such transparent attempts at the argumentum ad hominem fallacy?

Meaning of "evolution"?

Do you understand that such deviations from honest logic are DECEPTION?
Do you understand that such deception is a form of the sin of FALSE
WITNESS? Do you understand that exaggerating Darwin's racism (which,
compared to most of his contemporaries, including your own spiritual
ancestors was virtually non-existent, as demonstrated by his own
writings) is egregious FALSE WITNESS? The fact that the man is dead does
not exonerate you before Almighty God.

Do you think there even is an "Almighty God"?
Do you agree with any of the Goebbels or Hitler views below?
12 May 1943 Goebbels
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120260213.363834.164990%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
The Fuehrer spoke very derogatorily about the arrogance
of the higher and lower clergy. The insanity of the
Christian doctrine of redemption really doesn't fit at all
into our time. Nevertheless there are learned, educated
men, occupying high positions in public life, who cling to it
with the faith of a child. It is simply incomprehensible
how anybody can consider the Christian doctrine of
redemption as a guide for the difficult life of today. The
Fuehrer cited a number of exceptionally drastic and in
part even grotesque examples. The opinionated "sky pilots"
[clergy members -df] of course know exactly how the world is
constituted. Whereas the most learned and wisest
scientists struggle for a whole lifetime to study but one of
the mysterious laws of nature, a little country priest from
Bavaria is in a position to decide this matter on the basis
of his religious knowledge. One can regard such a
disgusting performance only with disdain. A church that
does not keep step with modern scientific knowledge is
doomed. It may take quite a while, but it is bound finally
to happen. Anybody who is firmly rooted in daily life, and
who can only faintly imagine the mystic secrets of nature,
will naturally be extremely modest about the universe.
The clerics, however, who have not caught a breath of
such modesty, evidence a sovereign opinionated attitude
toward questions of the universe....
1924 or 1925 Hitler: "today these sky-pilots [i.e. members of
the clergy]... force their drivel on the world."
Hitler, Adolf. _Mein Kampf_ at
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch11.html
Only after the enslavement of subjected races did the
same fate strike beasts, and not the other way around, as
some people would like to think. For first the conquered
warrior drew the plow-and only after him the horse. Only
pacifistic fools can regard this as a sign of human
depravity, failing to realize that this development had to
take place in order to reach the point where today these
sky-pilots [i.e. members of the clergy, judging by the
Goebbels diaries' use of the phrase] could force their
drivel on the world.
The progress of humanity is like climbing an endless
ladder....
Hitler was an adherent of atheism.
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129143372.689763.127020%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128308336.450775.177530%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

Why is your contempt for God so
great?

Which "God"?
Are you referring to me?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Q: "Do you believe in a supreme being?"
A: "Emphatically yes, and that supreme being is mankind."
Analysis: surely not _all_ mankind-- just look at a broadcast of your
local evening news. So, humanism-adherents worship only a portion of
mankind. It would make sense for humanism-adherents to worship _the
very best_ portion of mankind. In many cases, that very best portion
of mankind is the _humanist himself_.
Q: 'Do you believe in a supreme being?'
A: 'Emphatically yes, and that supreme being is ME!'
Morain, Lloyd and Mary. 1998. _Humanism As the Next Step_
(Amherst, New York: Humanist Press), 145pp. A paragraph on 32:
Harold R. Rafton, founder of the Humanist Fellowship of
Boston, when asked, "Do you believe in a supreme being?"
replied, "Emphatically yes, and that supreme being is
mankind." Humanists are careful, however, to point out
that this does not mean prideful self-worship of humanity,
because humanists do not worship in the traditional sense.
To be sure, the fulfillment of human life is their highest
value and their goal. But they realize that this fulfillment
is dependent upon human interrelationship with other
varieties of living things and nature as a whole. They
know that nature and its laws largely set the course and
determine the goals humans must seek to be fully human.
Their needs and their hopes are developed in interaction
with each other and nature.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

When will you purge your contempt? When you are a denizen of the
lake of fire, perhaps?

Do you even think there is a "lake of fire"?
Do you agree with these Hitler remarks?:
Hitler, Adolf, during meal times to his innermost circle plus the
occasional reliable guest, e.g. Himmler, as prepared by Hitler's
secretary Martin Bormann. 1953. _Hitler's Secret Conversations:
1941-1944_, translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens, with an
introductory essay "The Mind of Adolf Hitler" by H.R. Trevor-Roper (NY:
Farrar, Straus and Young), 597pp.
On 57, from the entry for the evening of 17 October 1941:
The precept that it's men's duty to love one another is
theory-- and the Christians are the last to practise it!
A negro baby who has the misfortune to
die before a missionary gets his clutches on him, goes
to Hell! If that were true, one might well lament that
sorrowful destiny: to have lived only three years, and
to burn for all eternity with Lucifer!
the Koran on hell; link to
"Christianity" is not monolithic when it comes to the nature of hell.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3720ncF56q00hU1%40individual.net

Or are you just secretly signalling to the atheists whose groups you have
included in the header that you are secretly one of them and are just
acting this way to cast Christianity in a bad light?

I don't discuss my motives.
Do you think Hitler "cast Christianity in a bad light"?
Do you think Hitler was an adherent of "Christianity" throughout his
life?
the atheism-adherent Hitler's actions are quite understandable
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1127506418.014874.230840%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
Churches resisted Hitler
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128561942.412167.145530%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
theological disputes among German Protestants; Nazi concentration camps
for Catholics and Protestants
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129228612.176548.107730%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	02 Nov 2005 01:03:54 PM

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130942761.416064.259420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Dave Oldridge wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
news:dford3-1130902551.072039.88270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Tracy Hamilton wrote:

Ben Standeven wrote:

david ford wrote:

Do you think Jesus existed, and said what He's recorded as
saying in the New Testament?

Do you agree with this Jesus?:
| But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for
| nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be
| the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the
| unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your
| Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be
| judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive,
| and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto
| you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and
| running over, shall men give into your
bosom.
| For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be
| measured to you again.

Are you (Jesus)"kind to the unthankful and to the evil"?

Awesome imitation of David Ford's posting "style"!

ROTFL

Do you agree with Haeckel that [Haeckel]

[snip blah, blah blah]

Do you agree with Darwin that there is a [Darwin]"Preservation of
Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"?

Yep...of course the word meant subspecies, and was not particularly
associated with skin melanin the way you racist pigs see it.

"the word meant subspecies, and was not particularly associated with
skin melanin"
What does [1871 Darwin]"races" mean?
1871 Darwin: [CD]"the civilised races of man"-- e.g. [CD]"the
Caucasian"-- [CD]"will almost certainly exterminate and replace
throughout the world the savage races"-- e.g. [CD]"the negro or
Australian," as in Australian aborigine-- with the end result being
[CD]"man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the
Caucasian"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407060404.711490be%40pos
ting.google.com

Yep...though if you look at it in context, Darwin is not advocating any
genocide, just noting what we have seen: cultural genocide wherever the
"civilized races" have gone.

Do you consider Darwin one of these "racist pigs"?

No, I do not. In fact, I think you are probably closer to it, since, I'd
wager dollars to donuts that the politicians you support have racism in
their cultural roots even if they carefully sweep it under the table
today.

Darwin did not OWN Haeckel. Nor was Haeckel a prophet.

Do you consider T.H. Huxley "a prophet" of Darwin?

Nope. Darwin wasn't a prophet either, though his predictions have proven
more reliable than those of some latter-day pseudochristians who DID
claim to have some such gift.

Tristram in 1860, in
Darwin's bible; Hsu
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3a18k3F66sgjpU1%40individua
l.net
....the argument of noise and sneers with which
(Darwinists) tried to put down... everyone... who did not
subscribe to the infallibility of the God Darwin
and his prophet Huxley....

Do you consider _any_ of Darwin's disciples "a prophet"?

Nope. But I can see why YOU might be obsessed with the idea of prophets.
For example, your false religion has predicted that chimps and humans
would lack any significant number of genetic accidents in common. And a
great many of you seem to favour Old Testament law. Where can we watch
your ritual lapidations?

1966 White
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990214111525.1490
9A-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
....nor are we likely to make
much further progress in this by the classical methods of
paleontology or biology; and we shall certainly not advance
matters

by jumping up and down shrilling 'Darwin is God and I, So-and-so,
am his prophet'....

YOU, on the
other hand are the false prophet of latter-day anti-intellectualism.

Do you consider me a bigot?

Yes, actually, I do. You continually mount these senseless ad hominem
attacks without EVER dealing with the actual science. It proves to me
that you know you're beat on the science frontier and are aware that your
only hope is a deceptive appeal to emotions.

Dobzhansky and Simpson on bigotry
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.4.10A.B3.9908202237180.71
6616-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu

Yes. Did you know that Dobzhansky was a Christian all his life? A real
one, in the actual Church founded by Jesus and not some latter-day
invention.

You
will pay for your sins of false witness in a lake of fire, according
to the Bible.

"according to the Bible" exactly where?

Exactly here:
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and
murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,
shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.

Do you think "the Bible" is a pack of lies?

I certainly do not. But I do not subscribe to the idea that it is an
infallible source of scientific knowledge either. The lies come from
self-appointed interpreters, not from scripture itself, which,
interpreted with some common sense is actually there to give us lessons
in doctrine and morals, not in science.

Tracy, are you glad Haeckel had tremendous success in promoting
atheism in Germany?

No, but YOU no doubt are because you can use the fact to promote your
own brand of pseudo-Christian fascism.

"your [df's] own brand of pseudo-Christian fascism"
Do you agree with any of this Maff?:

[maff]"But your [df's] Christian fascist organization will still be
pursued in both U.S. and or ICC despite your [df's] evasion." Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-35bcc1F4j6a0cU1%40individ
ual.net

[maff in June 2004]"Christian Taliban leaders were defeated in the
Civil
War. This time they're going to be wiped off from the face off the
Earth."
Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406291613.6fc5b18d%40p
osting.google.com

[maff]"I don't think anyone will mourn the death of Christan Taliban
historian, David Ford." Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406291601.455e9ae%40po
sting.google.com

[df]"Do you think that I [df] will be arrested and tried in [m]'the
Courts'?"

If you keep preaching bigotry and hatred in Canada, it's very apt to
happen, since we DO have laws.

Aw, gee...now we're supposed to hate Darwin because Haeckel was blond
and good looking. Where did you learn the fine art of appealing to
emotions instead of actually dealing with the SCIENCE of evolution?

Meaning of "evolution"?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-386md9F5lsv5cU1%40individua
l.net

This is totally non-responsive. But illustrative of what I'm talking
about.

Shipman, Pat. 1994. _The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences

and the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster), 318pp.
On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.

Darwin only talks to and through his prophets.

LIAR. Darwin wrote several books wherein he explained his own ideas
quite clearly.

"Darwin... explained his own ideas quite clearly." To illustrate,
see:

1871 Darwin backtracks a bit on his theory of NS
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.44L.01.0310120131230.26
092-100000%40linux1.gl.umbc.edu 1959 Gertrude Himmelfarb on 1871
Darwin backtracking; 1892 Henry de Varigny
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0312222212.4728f71b%40pos
ting.google.com

They are considerably LESS racist than the writings of
some of the spiritual ancestors of your own movement were at the
time.

Do you think Darwin or Haeckel were "some of the spiritual ancestors
of" Nazi Germany?

[snip]
You can possibly make a case for Haeckel, but the real architects were
German occultists who really didn't care for evolution at all. They may
have accepted that it's happening but they did everything in their power
to stop it and to force it to obey their world-view.
And Martin Luther's antisemitism carried a fair bit of weight, too. The
Lutherans and the RCC were still too shaken by the result of their own
fight a few centuries earlier to even THINK about banding together to
deal with the Nazi menace. And they had their own legacy of antisemitism
to help them in their bid to hide their collective heads in the sand. It
was the rare clergyman who actually DID something about the problem.

Why is your contempt for God so
great?

Which "God"?

The One who originally said: THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

Are you referring to me?

YES YOU!!!
[MORE IRRELEVANT DRIVEL SNIPPED]

When will you purge your contempt? When you are a denizen of the
lake of fire, perhaps?

Do you even think there is a "lake of fire"?

If there is not, there surely WILL be.

Do you agree with these Hitler remarks?:

I do, on some occasions agree with Hitler's beliefs, for example, he
believed the sky to be blue and that Germans should, in general, continue
breathing. However, I do not agree with what he is cited as saying
below. It does, however, tend to show that the atheist bigots are as
wrong as you are when they tend to see Hitler as the quintessential
Christian. Hitler, of course, CLAIMED to be scientific and CLAIMED to be
a Christian whenever it suited his opportunism to do so. In that respect
he was no different from many modern politicians.
[snip]

Or are you just secretly signalling to the atheists whose groups you
have included in the header that you are secretly one of them and are
just acting this way to cast Christianity in a bad light?

I don't discuss my motives.

Ahhh, looks like I hit a nerve.

Do you think Hitler "cast Christianity in a bad light"?

To the extent that he tried to identify his actions with the religion,
yes.

Do you think Hitler was an adherent of "Christianity" throughout his
life?

Certainly not. I'd be very interested in knowing the date (date only,
not content) of his last confession. I do know that his last living act
was a mortal sin.

the atheism-adherent Hitler's actions are quite understandable
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1127506418.014874.230840%40
f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com

Hitler was not much of a proponent of atheism. In fact, what he seems to
have peddled to the elite was a kind of Teutonic occultism that looked to
the old pagan gods for inspiration.

Churches resisted Hitler
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128561942.412167.145530%
40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com theological disputes among German
Protestants; Nazi concentration camps for Catholics and Protestants
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129228612.176548.107730%
40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

A few good Christians DID resist him. An awful lot of people voted for
him and supported him, while attending Lutheran, RCC and Baptist churches
every Sunday. To try to read atheism into this support is to miss the
entire nature of the political phenomenon that was Nazi Germany.
The real god of the Nazis was the same old enemy that the Israelites
worshipped and the same one that has infected many of our own churches.
Moloch is the god of irrational fear. The ancient Ammonites used to
sacrifice children to him. Their modern equivalents still do.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "wbarwell"
Title: Re: Claim: Hitler exploited racist Darwinism to justify genocide	02 Nov 2005 03:26:06 PM

Dave Oldridge wrote:

and the Use and Abuse of Science_ (NY: Simon & Schuster),
318pp. On 95:
Haeckel identified Aryans with the true Germans, with
the _Volk_ of Germany imbued with power and
intrinsic goodness and mystically tied to their holy
German landscape.