| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"N A H N A H@" |
| Date: |
06 Feb 2006 06:01:02 PM |
| Object: |
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
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| User: "Z_2K" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 06:37:46 PM |
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"N A H" <N A H@> wrote in message
news:soofu11v0pu1krdils6h2dd6182iq4lohq@4ax.com...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF
4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixpor
taltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
And I am sure he would be, in an Islamic sosiety. Fortunately, he does not
live in an Islamic society and so Islamic laws do not apply. This is a
perfect example of why Islam can not co-exist in the Western world. The
fundamental mindset is just too great.
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| User: "Anarchist" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 07:06:22 PM |
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Omar Bakri Mohammed
He should be deported immediately to his country of origin - Syria.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
Omar speaks truly. That is what Islam teaches. A Hadith.
Anarchist
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 06:33:02 PM |
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N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "Z_2K" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 06:35:37 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ufqlusd3hvq83@corp.supernews.com...
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF
4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixpor
taltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
--
Alric Knebel
Pat Robertson is insane...
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 12:34:39 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:35:37 GMT, "Z_2K" <chief_billy@hotmail.com> wrote
in alt.atheism
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ufqlusd3hvq83@corp.supernews.com...
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF
4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixpor
taltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
--
Alric Knebel
Pat Robertson is insane...
So are the violent muslims and the clerics who encourage them.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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| User: "Anarchist" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 06:45:46 PM |
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Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
Pat Robertson is looney. He has some "off the planet" set of beliefs.
Has senility set in early Anarchist wonders?
Anarchist
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| User: "Tilly" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 06:26:56 AM |
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Alric Knebel wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted
Islam and must pay the price, as three people were killed during
protests against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said,
whoever insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be
executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot
of hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for
same-sex couples.
What relevance does the above have to Omar Bakri Mohammed saying that the
cartoonists and those that insult Islam should be beheaded?
What you fail understand is that large numbers of people listen to what he
says and take it seriously, whereas Robertson is considered a joke by most
people.
--
TillyGr@hotmail.com
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 01:31:38 PM |
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Tilly wrote:
Alric Knebel wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted
Islam and must pay the price, as three people were killed during
protests against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said,
whoever insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be
executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot
of hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for
same-sex couples.
What relevance does the above have to Omar Bakri Mohammed saying that the
cartoonists and those that insult Islam should be beheaded?
What you fail understand is that large numbers of people listen to what he
says and take it seriously, whereas Robertson is considered a joke by most
people.
Actually what I wanted to point out is that lunacy is a product of
fundamentalism, Christian, Islam, and whatever else. I know Robertson
is a joke, but he's a joke who bears some influence. He's a religious
icon in our society. That says something. He started an organization
that to this day bears an influence on our politics, to the point that
we're having to defend leaving Creationism out of our biology text
books. Sure, I know he's a joke, YOU know he's a joke, but there are
some people who just don't get the joke.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 08:31:15 PM |
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On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 10:59:08 PM |
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TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy. And I only
mentioned ONE of his loony comments. And Falwell is running a close
second. These are influential men.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 11:26:24 PM |
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On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
And I only
mentioned ONE of his loony comments. And Falwell is running a close
second. These are influential men.
Those days are long past. Their histrionics show how impotent they
have become. They have been parodied, lampooned, cartooned, and
made fun of until reasonable people have seen what idiots they are.
--
Few blame themselves until they have exhausted all other possibilities.
-- anonymous
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
06 Feb 2006 11:43:20 PM |
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TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
N A H wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=0UPJ5EK14JFDFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/02/06/ucartoon.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/06/ixportaltop.html
Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed
2/6/06
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the radical Muslim cleric, has said the
cartoonist behind caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed that have
sparked outrage across the Arab world should be tried and executed
under Islamic law.
Omar Bakri Mohammed The cleric said the cartoonist had insulted Islam
and must pay the price, as three people were killed during protests
against the cartoons in Afghanistan.
"The insult has been established now by everybody, Muslim and
non-Muslim, and everybody condemns the cartoonist and condemns the
cartoon," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"However, in Islam, God said, and the messenger Mohammed said, whoever
insults a prophet, he must be punished and executed.
"This man should be put on trial and if it is proven to be executed."
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
And I only
mentioned ONE of his loony comments. And Falwell is running a close
second. These are influential men.
Those days are long past. Their histrionics show how impotent they
have become. They have been parodied, lampooned, cartooned, and
made fun of until reasonable people have seen what idiots they are.
True, REASONABLE people see them as idiots. But there are
fundamentalists who still tune in to his ridiculous show, and Falwell is
still the head of a religious corporation.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 12:04:56 AM |
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On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
Do you think trying to equate the insect bites of Western fundamentalism
to the severed artery of Muslim fundamentalism makes sense? How does
it address the problem we are discussing here, which is the immense
overreaction of the Muslim fundamentalists?
You do realize that Muslim fundamentalism has prevented their peoples
from making any significant contribution to science, engineering,
philosophy, or almost any aspect of life, don't you? And no, I don't
count the "Islamic Studies" which is the number one study in which
Muslim countries grant advanced degrees.
In short, by trying to distract by pointing at the west, you are
evading the issue.
If you can't see that, you are defective.
And I only
mentioned ONE of his loony comments. And Falwell is running a close
second. These are influential men.
Those days are long past. Their histrionics show how impotent they
have become. They have been parodied, lampooned, cartooned, and
made fun of until reasonable people have seen what idiots they are.
True, REASONABLE people see them as idiots. But there are
fundamentalists who still tune in to his ridiculous show, and Falwell
is still the head of a religious corporation.
Western fundamentalism has become less and less of an issue, and the
personages you cite lose influence by the year.
--
Few blame themselves until they have exhausted all other possibilities.
-- anonymous
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 12:46:11 AM |
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"TUKA" <tuka@tuka.valuemedia.com> wrote in message
news:slrnduge47.jr1.tuka@bill.heins.net...
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
Pat Robertson has said, with dead seriousness, that Florida has a lot
of
hurricanes because of Disney World, which provides benefits for
same-sex
couples.
And the number of embassies burnt? Death threats made to Mickey Mouse?
Hmm?
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim
finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
Do you think trying to equate the insect bites of Western fundamentalism
to the severed artery of Muslim fundamentalism makes sense? How does
it address the problem we are discussing here, which is the immense
overreaction of the Muslim fundamentalists?
We have a fundamentalist with his finger on the button. He takes
direct orders from God to attack other countries. He quashes
science if it doesn't follow his own theistic view of the universe.
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| User: "Anarchist" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 04:30:08 PM |
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We have a fundamentalist with his finger on the button. He takes
direct orders from God to attack other countries. He quashes
science if it doesn't follow his own theistic view of the universe.
Don't you feel safe?
Nice to know your future is in good hands
Anarchist
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 01:07:27 AM |
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TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
Do you think trying to equate the insect bites of Western fundamentalism
to the severed artery of Muslim fundamentalism makes sense? How does
it address the problem we are discussing here, which is the immense
overreaction of the Muslim fundamentalists?
You do realize that Muslim fundamentalism has prevented their peoples
from making any significant contribution to science, engineering,
philosophy, or almost any aspect of life, don't you? And no, I don't
count the "Islamic Studies" which is the number one study in which
Muslim countries grant advanced degrees.
Thank you for brining this up. The things you site about Muslim
fundamentalism are true. But that's only modern Muslim fundamentalism.
At one time, the very religion itself advanced mathematics, art, and
science in that region. Something happened. The religious text became
a means for clerics to assert power, with enough of the uneducated
masses backing them up, and using that popular momentum to back down the
thinkers.
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism, let me remind
you of the recent debate over "Intelligent Design" and Theory of
Evolution. Fundamentalism has made its way into a central debate, and
I'm aghast that in this century, we're having to fight this battle all
over again. This is a minority of people forcing this debate, but
they're well-organized, and have taken over some school boards and are
now attempting to alter text books. Now, in most cases, these people
didn't run for the school board announcing their intentions, and once
people caught wind of them, they immediately voted them out. But not in
ALL cases, and some have gone to court. This is a real threat of
religious fundamentalism forcing its way into science. Of course,
you're going to downplay the significance of it, but if you don't see
them for what they are, and classify them as a threat to freedom and
education, once they get a stranglehold on education and begin inserting
theology into the curriculum, we'll become a throwback, just like the
Middle East.
And let's not forget the crap spewed by Judge Roy Moore. I watched the
man on C-SPAN and he's saying outright that the basis for the United
States government is theocratic. They might be just insect bites right
now, but they resent that they are.
In short, by trying to distract by pointing at the west, you are
evading the issue.
If you can't see that, you are defective.
If you see me as doing that, you are defective.
Those days are long past. Their histrionics show how impotent they
have become. They have been parodied, lampooned, cartooned, and
made fun of until reasonable people have seen what idiots they are.
True, REASONABLE people see them as idiots. But there are
fundamentalists who still tune in to his ridiculous show, and Falwell
is still the head of a religious corporation.
Western fundamentalism has become less and less of an issue, and the
personages you cite lose influence by the year.
You're speaking for yourself, and that's good that you're that sensible.
But I'm not assured that these men don't hold sway over the people I
just described above.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "Anarchist" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 04:40:13 PM |
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At one time, the very religion itself advanced mathematics, art, and
science in that region.
You can forget music as part of art.
Mohammed really had it in for music.
There is no Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Sibelius, no jazz, no ragtime,
no rock.
You only have quote Mohammed to see why:
//
On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of
whoever sits listening to a songstress.
Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and
commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings,
crucifixes, and the affair of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance.
//
Anarchist
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| User: "Tiny Human Ferret" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 09:57:46 PM |
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Anarchist wrote:
At one time, the very religion itself advanced mathematics, art, and
science in that region.
You can forget music as part of art.
Mohammed really had it in for music.
There is no Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Sibelius, no jazz, no ragtime,
no rock.
You only have quote Mohammed to see why:
//
On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of
whoever sits listening to a songstress.
Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and
commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings,
crucifixes, and the affair of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance.
//
Considering the prevalence of music in Arab culture, I somehow doubt
that Mohammed was taken very seriously if indeed he said this.
Can you give a page and paragraph cite?
And I might suggest that you check out the rather large amount of
Arabic/Middle-Eastern music that's out there. Ufra Azha for instance was
most excellent.
Search out an MP3 of "Sister of Mercy" performing "Temple of Love" to
hear this excellent artist's vocal stylings. Highly recommended.
--
nam primi in omnibus proeliis oculi vincuntur.
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 07:47:39 AM |
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["Followup-To:" header set to soc.culture.israel.]
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
Do you think trying to equate the insect bites of Western fundamentalism
to the severed artery of Muslim fundamentalism makes sense? How does
it address the problem we are discussing here, which is the immense
overreaction of the Muslim fundamentalists?
You do realize that Muslim fundamentalism has prevented their peoples
from making any significant contribution to science, engineering,
philosophy, or almost any aspect of life, don't you? And no, I don't
count the "Islamic Studies" which is the number one study in which
Muslim countries grant advanced degrees.
Thank you for brining this up. The things you site about Muslim
fundamentalism are true. But that's only modern Muslim fundamentalism.
At one time, the very religion itself advanced mathematics, art, and
science in that region.
Not true at all. Arab scholars brought algebra to the west, but it had
nothing to do with Islam.
Something happened. The religious text became a means for clerics to
assert power, with enough of the uneducated masses backing them up,
and using that popular momentum to back down the thinkers.
Just the fact that you are speaking of centuries ago validates what
I said.
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
I don't need to discuss the West with you. We examine our problems
plenty.
--
There's nothing sweeter than life nor more precious than time.
-- Barney
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 01:27:59 PM |
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TUKA wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to soc.culture.israel.]
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
None. I'm merely remarking on our own brand of lunacy.
For what purpose? Oh, I know -- you are performing the usual Muslim finger-
point to try and distract from their lunacy. No examination of faults,
only blame. Sigh.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I think fundamentalism is a
throwback, no matter what religion postures it.
Do you think trying to equate the insect bites of Western fundamentalism
to the severed artery of Muslim fundamentalism makes sense? How does
it address the problem we are discussing here, which is the immense
overreaction of the Muslim fundamentalists?
You do realize that Muslim fundamentalism has prevented their peoples
from making any significant contribution to science, engineering,
philosophy, or almost any aspect of life, don't you? And no, I don't
count the "Islamic Studies" which is the number one study in which
Muslim countries grant advanced degrees.
Thank you for brining this up. The things you site about Muslim
fundamentalism are true. But that's only modern Muslim fundamentalism.
At one time, the very religion itself advanced mathematics, art, and
science in that region.
Not true at all. Arab scholars brought algebra to the west, but it had
nothing to do with Islam.
What religion were these Arab scholars? I've read of this already, and
at one time Islam was not the religion it is today. At one time,
Christianity held sway over everything, and science moved forward. It
was the same with Islam. It was no more oppressive than Christianity
when Christianity was the dominant force in Europe. I read an essay
once by an Islamic cleric bemoaning the state of his religion, and he
looked back on the history of it, on the glory days in which the Middle
Eastern culture was THE culture of the world, while Christianity held
Europe in the period known as the Dark Ages. Maybe you're unable to
discuss this reasonably, perhaps based on your own religious biases.
Something happened. The religious text became a means for clerics to
assert power, with enough of the uneducated masses backing them up,
and using that popular momentum to back down the thinkers.
Just the fact that you are speaking of centuries ago validates what
I said.
I'm not speaking of centuries ago. I'm talking about maybe thirty years
ago. This ascendancy of Islamic fundamentalism is relatively new. Let
me share something with you I saw on Nova a couple of months back.
There are these contests held every year in which contestants create
these short robots enhanced with artificial intelligence. They play a
special kind of basketball. The thing is, they LEARN as they play.
This contest is held -- and get this -- in IRAN! Iran doesn't just
sponsor it; they had competitors, too, and the president of the
university sponsoring the contest was a woman. In the interview, she
wore a dark blazer, and her head was uncovered. Other than her dark
skin, I wouldn't have guessed she was an Iranian university president
with an above average grasp and appreciation of science. Sure, you'll
be quick to dismiss this as an aberration, but the fact that this
contest is held there every year challenges that assertion. If that
story doesn't shatter a few preconceptions, you're a person trenchantly
devoted to your ideas about the Middle East, and what exactly the people
there are thinking.
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
We don't do it enough. If we did, I wouldn't have thought I needed to
say anything that I said. I think it's important that we look at the
same manifestations of oppressive stupidity caused by OUR religions.
Remember that thing Jesus said about the beam in our own eye. I
outlined a very significant example of fundamentalist Christianity
asserting itself and oppressing science, and this was not an opinion on
my part, but a fact all over the news. This is a critical debate, no
minor point I'm exaggerating for some sophistic purpose. You brushed it
aside. This oppression of modern knowledge is the same thing you
erroneously accused Islam as a whole of doing. I don't think it's the
religion itself, but the Islamist fundamentalists are a minority there,
too, just as Christian fundamentalists are a minority here, but highly
organized.
I don't need to discuss the West with you. We examine our problems
plenty.
Some of us do. YOU don't. You have a lot of silly ideas about Islam,
especially about its contribution to science. You're going after Islam
ideologically to the point that you don't see. Perhaps it's your beam
in your eye.
One more thing. From your remarks, I got the idea that you thought I
was an Islamist. I'm not. I'm a white Christian living in the United
States. It just occurred to me that my name might look foreign to you.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 01:56:18 PM |
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On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
We don't do it enough.
We do it 1000 times more than the Muslims do.
Alas, another deluded one.
--
Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick two and we'll talk. -- unknown
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 02:16:08 PM |
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TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
We don't do it enough.
We do it 1000 times more than the Muslims do.
Alas, another deluded one.
Alas, you brushed aside all of the points that proved my point. You go
ahead and stick that head right back where you've been keeping it!
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 02:25:52 PM |
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["Followup-To:" header set to soc.culture.israel.]
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
We don't do it enough.
We do it 1000 times more than the Muslims do.
Alas, another deluded one.
Alas, you brushed aside all of the points that proved my point. You go
ahead and stick that head right back where you've been keeping it!
Unbelievable.
I contend that you can't talk about Muslim faults without pointing
at the west, and you berate me for refusing to talk about the west!
You are doing nothing but proving me right. You, and all the other
antis, simply cannot engage in a real discussion. You cannot talk about
the Muslims -- all you can do is point blame at the west. You cannot
talk in any other terms.
The Muslims are wanting to live in a time centuries back. The world has
changed, and they have not changed with it. Too bad they have "friends"
like you -- real friends would ask them to do some tough thinking to
save their skins.
Instead, their skyrocketing populations and plummeting GDPs will
apply even more pressure until their countries burst at the seams.
As we are starting to see now. With emigration tightening up as
the unwelcome Muslim visitors cause problems in Europe, it will
get progressively worse.
It is inevitable anyway -- I may as well not waste my time. They
cannot change soon enough to avoid disaster.
--
"Laughter is inner jogging." -- Norman Cousins
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
07 Feb 2006 10:47:48 PM |
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TUKA wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to soc.culture.israel.]
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
On 2006-02-07, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
Now, for these "insect bites" of Western fundamentalism,
[snip]
See? You simply cannot speak to current events as related
to the Muslims. They are the topic here. All you can do is
try and turn it back on the West.
We don't do it enough.
We do it 1000 times more than the Muslims do.
Alas, another deluded one.
Alas, you brushed aside all of the points that proved my point. You go
ahead and stick that head right back where you've been keeping it!
Unbelievable.
You're ignoring my point.
I contend that you can't talk about Muslim faults without pointing
at the west, and you berate me for refusing to talk about the west!
Oh *****. You're missing my point. I'm saying that Muslims don't
ALL want to live in the past. I'm telling you that the religion has all
sorts of people representing it, but you're seeing the most violent and
fanatical aspects of it. This is mostly due to 9/11, I think. That's
understandable, but enough time has passed to bring some reasonable
thinking to it. Let's talk about religious fundamentalism, and what it
can do to a society once it's allowed to creep in and take control.
Take a look at the Taliban ascendancy in Afghanistan.
You are doing nothing but proving me right. You, and all the other
antis, simply cannot engage in a real discussion. You cannot talk about
the Muslims -- all you can do is point blame at the west. You cannot
talk in any other terms.
The other "antis"? You stupid pie hole. I was engaged in a real
discussion, making good points, and you simply -- in your gleeful
pro-American-anti-ism -- simply can't follow the argument. There are
people in those countries just as civilized, just as advanced, with the
same political ideologies and hopes as any civilized person. I made
that point quite clear that you're using vast generalities to address
this discussion. No matter how I make the point, you come right back to
broad-stroking Islam, a religion with factions and denominations just
like the Christian religion.
The Muslims are wanting to live in a time centuries back. The world has
changed, and they have not changed with it. Too bad they have "friends"
like you -- real friends would ask them to do some tough thinking to
save their skins.
Not ALL Muslims, just the noisiest ones. And I just gave you an example
-- about the basketball-playing robots -- that proved my point. You
just can't get it, because you're too busy with your generalities. And
I'm not a "friend" of the Muslims. I'm just not anti-Muslim, because
they're not the predominant religion in the United States.
Instead, their skyrocketing populations and plummeting GDPs will
apply even more pressure until their countries burst at the seams.
As we are starting to see now. With emigration tightening up as
the unwelcome Muslim visitors cause problems in Europe, it will
get progressively worse.
Skyrocketing populations?
It is inevitable anyway -- I may as well not waste my time. They
cannot change soon enough to avoid disaster.
Is that what you're doing, trying to save the Muslim religion? Let's
take a look. Back in the 50s, Iran had a completely secular, democratic
government. What did the U. S. do? Well, they needed a block nation
against communism -- that's the ostensible reason, anyway -- and
overthrew the democratically elected government, put the Shah in as
dictator, who proceeded to rule with an iron hand. Out of repression
grew fanaticism. We know how that ended. Now you have a democratically
elected, oppressive theocratic regime.
In short, you clearly don't know enough about the people, what they
want, the variations in their religions, to have a clue what their
problem really is. And if you think religious fanaticism is bad, you
better take a look closer to home. Fundamentalists helped get an
anti-science president elected, who vetoed government-supported stem
cell research. Their victory at the polls empowered them to assert
their backwards agenda into science. They do not represent the majority
of Americans, but they're well organized, and dishonest.
But what's curious about this discussion is, my point isn't really that
difficult to comprehend. For you to miss it indicates a strong
anti-Muslim bent. Why? And I need to ask another thing, because of the
gist of your responses, in that you never address the things I said
about Christianity at all, as if you didn't care what I thought of
Christianity. You also ignored the fact that I said I was a white
Christian, which should have demonstrated to you that I was tuned to
what you might be thinking, that you were mistaking my nationality as
foreign. Instead, you seem to be just hostile to my point. So I'm
going to ask: Are you Jewish? I belong to a political list and the
Jewish people on that list claimed that people in the Middle East don't
use toilet paper, and use their hand to clean themselves after bowel
movements. The more I thought about it, the more it sounded like pure
racism, the sort of thing white Americans said about blacks back in our
dark period. You seem very interested in painting all Muslims with a
broad brush, and you're disdainful of any attempt to bring subtlety to
the discussion. So, are you Jewish? You seem hell-bent on making a
point about Muslims. This isn't an admission of having a side in that
conflict, but I just want to know where you're coming from.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "TUKA" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 12:51:24 AM |
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On 2006-02-08, Alric Knebel <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote:
TUKA wrote:
I contend that you can't talk about Muslim faults without pointing
at the west, and you berate me for refusing to talk about the west!
Oh *****. You're missing my point.
Your point was how the west should do something, ANYTHING, so the
Muslims won't have to. What kind of point is that?
I'm saying that Muslims don't ALL want to live in the past. I'm
telling you that the religion has all sorts of people representing it,
And where are the reasonable ones, eh? They don't seem to be present in
any numbers. Even the supposedly reasonable ones can't seem to
understand the idea of free speech -- they claim speech should be free
except when it comes to their pet point.
but you're seeing the most violent and
fanatical aspects of it. This is mostly due to 9/11, I think. That's
understandable, but enough time has passed to bring some reasonable
thinking to it. Let's talk about religious fundamentalism, and what it
can do to a society once it's allowed to creep in and take control.
Take a look at the Taliban ascendancy in Afghanistan.
You are doing nothing but proving me right. You, and all the other
antis, simply cannot engage in a real discussion. You cannot talk about
the Muslims -- all you can do is point blame at the west. You cannot
talk in any other terms.
The other "antis"? You stupid pie hole. I was engaged in a real
discussion, making good points, and you simply -- in your gleeful
pro-American-anti-ism -- simply can't follow the argument.
Excuse me? You wanted to talk about western fundamentalism, which as I
pointed out is as NOTHING compared to the Muslim fundamentalism. There
are plenty of forums for talking about western fundamentalism. To try
and deflect a discussion of Muslim fundamentalism by spending time on it
is not "good points". It is evasion.
There are people in those countries just as civilized, just as
advanced, with the same political ideologies and hopes as any
civilized person.
Where is the flowering of this supposed civilization? Considering
that they produce almost no books, no scientists, and no non-
commodity products competitive in the world marketplace, what are
those people doing?
I made that point quite clear that you're using vast generalities to
address this discussion. No matter how I make the point, you come
right back to broad-stroking Islam, a religion with factions and
denominations just like the Christian religion.
Of course I am broad-stroking Islam. Their moderate factions are so
small and so impotent as to be meaningless. Again, negating my "broad-
stroking" with claptrap about the scientific contributions of the 7th
century is ridiculous. You are painting with a hairline brush when no
one can get close enough to see the strokes.
The Muslims are wanting to live in a time centuries back. The world has
changed, and they have not changed with it. Too bad they have "friends"
like you -- real friends would ask them to do some tough thinking to
save their skins.
Not ALL Muslims, just the noisiest ones.
Tell me where are the Muslims who realize that the Palestinians are
have tossed generations of their children down the toilet by refusing to
get on with the rest of their lives? They must exist, since you claim
that there are many reasonable ones.
The noisy ones so dominate things that your supposed reasonable
ones cannot talk for fear of being murdered and shunned. Even were
reasonable Muslims to understand that the behavior of the Palestinians
is awful, they would not dare speak to it.
For God's sake, a moderate Muslim writes that Muslims are overreacting
to the cartoons, and he gets arrested amid death threats? There seem
to be no Muslims making the only reasonable suggestion, which is to
ignore the stupid Westerners.
And I just gave you an example -- about the basketball-playing robots
-- that proved my point.
You haven't begun to prove any point. You claim that there is a whole
spectrum of Muslims I cannot see because I am blind. Can I see them?
Sure I can. I can also tell you that they have done nothing for their
co-religionists, and that they are not leading them.
You just can't get it, because you're too busy with your generalities.
And I'm not a "friend" of the Muslims. I'm just not anti-Muslim,
because they're not the predominant religion in the United States.
Instead, their skyrocketing populations and plummeting GDPs will
apply even more pressure until their countries burst at the seams.
As we are starting to see now. With emigration tightening up as
the unwelcome Muslim visitors cause problems in Europe, it will
get progressively worse.
Skyrocketing populations?
Do you know the population growth rates of Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? They are among the world's
highest.
Do you know where the per-capita GDP of Syria, Egypt, Morocco,
Indonesia, and Turkey has gone in the past decade?
Were you aware of the 2002 U.N. study on the Arab world and its
forecast demographics for 2017?
It is inevitable anyway -- I may as well not waste my time. They
cannot change soon enough to avoid disaster.
Is that what you're doing, trying to save the Muslim religion? Let's
take a look. Back in the 50s, Iran had a completely secular, democratic
government. What did the U. S. do? Well, they needed a block nation
against communism -- that's the ostensible reason, anyway -- and
overthrew the democratically elected government, put the Shah in as
dictator, who proceeded to rule with an iron hand. Out of repression
grew fanaticism. We know how that ended. Now you have a democratically
elected, oppressive theocratic regime.
In short, you clearly don't know enough about the people, what they
want, the variations in their religions, to have a clue what their
problem really is.
What separates the Shiites and Sunnis is so miniscule as to not even be
as great as the difference between Presbyterian and Methodist. It
should be of interest only to a few scholars. Yet two-thirds of
doctorates in Saudi Arabia are granted in Islamic studies. This is
simply beyond belief.
Their entire religion is held hostage by the fundamentalists. The
same simply cannot be said for Judaism or Christianity.
And if you think religious fanaticism is bad, you
better take a look closer to home.
Aha. There you go again. Do you think everything has to be covered in
one discussion? Why do you think that discussing Western fundamentalism
has any value in this? It is nothing but a distraction.
Fundamentalists helped get an
anti-science president elected, who vetoed government-supported stem
cell research. Their victory at the polls empowered them to assert
their backwards agenda into science. They do not represent the majority
of Americans, but they're well organized, and dishonest.
You can call Bush anti-science if you wish; but he is Edison and
Einstein reincarnated compared to the Muslims.
But what's curious about this discussion is, my point isn't really that
difficult to comprehend. For you to miss it indicates a strong
anti-Muslim bent. Why? [snip]
What is difficult is why you think these things are important to
comprehend. It is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Appeasing Muslim fundamentalists is ridiculous, and virtually every
Muslim voice you hear does it to some degree. I am constantly
disappointed when I read the editorials written by Muslims -- I keep
hoping I will hear something fresh. The only fresh things I hear about
Muslims are from ex-Muslims.
--
Some people have twenty years of experience, some people have
one year of experience twenty times over. -- Anonymous
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 02:25:52 AM |
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TUKA wrote:
What is difficult is why you think these things are important to
comprehend. It is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Appeasing Muslim fundamentalists is ridiculous, and virtually every
Muslim voice you hear does it to some degree. I am constantly
disappointed when I read the editorials written by Muslims -- I keep
hoping I will hear something fresh. The only fresh things I hear about
Muslims are from ex-Muslims.
I don't believe in appeasing them. I'm critical of them, too. But I'm
not going to focus on Muslims specifically. I don't know how you think
what I'm saying is inappropriate for this forum, because I saw this
thread in a Christian newsgroup.
And to get back to a previous post, you didn't answer my question, so
I'm suspecting I was right that you might be Jewish. So I'm going to
ask it again. I'm asking because of the gist of your responses, in that
you never address the things I said about Christianity at all, as if you
didn't care what I thought of Christianity, or even that I said I was a
white Christian. You just wanted to hear me pile on to Muslims and
generally hostile to my point. So I'm going to ask: Are you Jewish? I
belong to a political list and the Jewish people on that list claimed
that people in the Middle East don't use toilet paper, and use their
hand to clean themselves after bowel movements. The more I thought
about it, the more it sounded like pure racism, the sort of thing white
Americans said about blacks back in our dark period. You seem very
interested in painting all Muslims with a broad brush, and you're
disdainful of any attempt to bring subtlety to the discussion. So, are
you Jewish? You seem hell-bent on making a point about Muslims. This
isn't an admission of my having a side in that conflict, but I just want
to know where you're coming from. Here's what I'm thinking: You hate
Muslims for whatever reason, and you're ***** at me because I'm not
critical enough of them. I don't like the Muslim religion, as all
scripture-based religions are nonsense to me. And the more oppressive
they get, the more they prove my point. I'm only interested in what
fundamentalism is doing HERE, in the United States. I don't want my
country to become like Iran, and I'll find myself among a sensible
majority oppressed by a sneaky minority.
--
Alric Knebel
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| User: "Emanuel Appel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 09:07:25 AM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ujaoekpm9vodd@corp.supernews.com...
Sir,
I'm a Jew
Ragheads don't use toilet paper. They belong to a religious group
whose leaders declare they want to impose their religion on the planet
I don't like them
I don't care if you are hard or not hard on them
Are we clear?
emanuel appel
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 09:36:29 AM |
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Emanuel Appel wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ujaoekpm9vodd@corp.supernews.com...
Sir,
I'm a Jew
Ragheads don't use toilet paper. They belong to a religious group
whose leaders declare they want to impose their religion on the planet
I don't like them
I don't care if you are hard or not hard on them
Are we clear?
If you've couple hundreds of trillion of dollars in loose change then
by all means go for it. US tax payers aren't going to pay for it.
emanuel appel
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| User: "Emanuel Appel" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 09:57:32 AM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139412988.913502.184290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
If you've couple hundreds of trillion of dollars in loose change then
by all means go for it. US tax payers aren't going to pay for it.
I'm afraid you are.
You see, until recently, the most cost effective way for America to
influence others was to bribe them. This meant bribing ragheads and bribing
Jews.
When bribery fails, then you find yourself with an army in Irak. The
Left and a small fringe of white supremacist Jew haters are on the side of
the Moslems.
But the Moslems are so inept that they hurt even those who like them
NO, your feeble attempts to hurt Israel through the $$$ will fail
becasue, what other leverage does the US have? Zero
emanuel appel
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Cleric calls on Mohammed cartoonist to be executed . . . |
08 Feb 2006 10:01:56 AM |
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Emanuel Appel wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139412988.913502.184290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
If you've couple hundreds of trillion of dollars in loose change then
by all means go for it. US tax payers aren't going to pay for it.
I'm afraid you are.
You see, until recently, the most cost effective way for America to
influence others was to bribe them. This meant bribing ragheads and bribing
Jews.
When bribery fails, then you find yourself with an army in Irak. The
Left and a small fringe of white supremacist Jew haters are on the side of
the Moslems.
But the Moslems are so inept that they hurt even those who like them
NO, your feeble attempts to hurt Israel through the $$$ will fail
becasue, what other leverage does the US have? Zero
So pay for it. Couple of hundred trillion dollars is lots of money.
emanuel appel
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