| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"loose cannon" |
| Date: |
09 Jun 2005 11:46:08 AM |
| Object: |
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060809.html
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect
SEOUL/WASHINGTON, June 8, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Those lobbying
against human cloning have been hampered by the vast confusion created
by the deliberate manipulation of the nomenclature of cloning. Names
assigned to the results of lab cloning have always been a matter of PR
rather than accurate science.
The problem has become so acute, that now even the cloners appear to
literally have no idea what they are doing. Whereas most ordinary
people understand what an embryo is and where babies come from, this
high-school level of awareness seems to escape most researchers
creating human cloned embryos.
The infamous Dr. Woo-Suk Hwang, head of a team of South Korean
scientists who cloned the first human embryos to use for research, said
at a press conference that cloning experiments were "dangerous,
complicated and unethical," and that he would never consider making
human clones. This would appear to be an extraordinary admission of
guilt for the man who was catapulted to international fame by being the
first to successfully clone human embryos, and then to be the first to
create cloned embryos specifically tailored to individual adults for
use in disease research.
A cloner saying that cloning is morally wrong? Dr. Hwang, however,
insists that what he is doing is not human cloning. "Cloning a human
being is nonsense. Briefly, it is not ethical, it is not safe at all,
and it's technically impossible," Hwang said. "Cloned human
beings are merely a science fiction fantasy. I can assure you that on
this globe, you'll never bump into a cloned human being at least within
100 years."
This is the situation created by the manipulation of language which is
the work of bioethicists in collaboration with the media. Bioethics,
beginning with the justification of abortion, posit that a human being
and a human embryo are two different things, and therefore the creation
and destruction of human embryos for research is not a matter of moral
consequence.
This thinking explains why bioethicists and researchers have the
support of the media that has long been complicit in abortion lobbying.
The confusion and manipulation of language has grown with the advent of
cloning. In the public mind, for example, all cloning is synonymous
with one particular technique, Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer, (SCNT),
made famous by the creators of Dolly the cloned sheep.
But SCNT is only one cloning method among many. James F. Battey, chief
of the stem cell task force at the National Institutes of Health,
proudly announced yesterday that scientists were working on ways of
creating embryo stem cells without creating embryos. "That would
really get around all the moral and ethical concerns," he said.
Battey implied that the research would be eligible for federal funding
because no embryos are killed.
One of the techniques he is referring to however, "blastomere
separation," is more commonly called twinning. The procedure takes a
very early stage embryo, one that has divided only to six to eight
cells and removes one of these primary cells, called a blastomere. This
blastomere is capable of becoming an embryo. The process occurs
naturally and is the origin of identical twins. It is also commonly
employed at in vitro fertilization facilities when more embryos are
needed than can be made by combining ova and sperm. This twinning
process in the IVF industry is a form of human cloning.
The technique solves no ethical dilemmas since it starts with cloning
and creates an entity, the blastomere, that may itself be a human
embryo.
The world of embryo research is quickly becoming so bizarre that it is
nearly impossible for anyone outside the field to identify what exactly
the scientists are creating. The pro-life ethic, however, is based upon
the prudential judgment, "if you don't know, you can't shoot."
If it is impossible to know whether a human being is present, nothing
whatever may be done that could be risky. This ethic is dismissed in
the research community, however, since it would put an immediate halt
to all such experimentation.
This basic ethical principle related to embryo experimentation was
worked out in detail as early as 1986 in a Vatican document, Donum
Vitae, which examined the ethics of the then new field of in vitro
fertilization. The document specifically addresses the issue of
twinning, saying, "Attempts or hypotheses for obtaining a human being
without any connection with sexuality through 'twin fission,'
cloning or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral
law."
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 01:15:06 PM |
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"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> writes:
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect
I have never understood why people like Loose Cannon and his
kind hate America so much. If the Koreans are conducting research that
will lead to them living longer, stronger, smarter, and more productive
lives, and we are not because of your "morals", then those morals are a
suicide pact.
I don't sign suicide pacts. Why did you?
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/
"The apocalypse may be closer at hand than even John Derbyshire thinks:
what the hell is Elf Sternberg doing reading Derb's columns?"
-- Charles Murtaugh
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 09:27:34 PM |
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"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:87oeaf1jo5.fsf@drizzle.com...
"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> writes:
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect
I have never understood why people like Loose Cannon
It's not the "Loose Cannon" that most people associate with the name. It is
actually a forging moron by the name of Jon Young, affectionately known as
Jar Jar.
.....and Jar Jar is a certified asswipe.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
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| User: "Sanders Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 05:32:45 PM |
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"Elf M. Sternberg" <elf@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:87oeaf1jo5.fsf@drizzle.com...
"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> writes:
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect
I have never understood why people like Loose Cannon and his
kind hate America so much.
Then you've never attended one of the South's Militant Christian Churches.
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| User: "Jeff Welch" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 09:35:32 PM |
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"loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118335567.962096.71140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060809.html
Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect
What's unethical about cloning?
Explain.
-Jeff
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 08:14:08 PM |
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In article <1118335567.962096.71140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
looseaint@aol.com says...
The pro-life ethic, however, is based upon
the prudential judgment
No, it's based upon ignorant, fanatic religious nonsense. There is
no such thing as a moment of conception. There are only the
constant moments of misconception that anti-science, anti-aborters
have whenever they open their uninformed mouths on the topic. In
reality, fertilization takes place over a long period of time and
fertilization, as in IVF for example, is technically distinct from
the more abstract metaphysical concept of "conception" as described
by medieval scribes who knew nothing about actual biology.
, "if you don't know, you can't shoot."
First off, we do know that the blastocyst, like you, lacks a brain.
Because it lacks a brain, a heart, nerves and a body, etc at the
stage of several days of age it is utterly different from normal
human person. When a human's brain activity ceases we say that
individual is brain dead and is no more. These organisms are brain
dead in the sense that they have never been alive to begin with.
Therefore, it is dishonest to call them "babies" as the pro-lie,
anti-aborts are won't to do. I agree that, in the case of the gun
analogy that we should not shoot until we can see the target.
However, this analogy is far from absolute. If we never took any
risks, including those that involve human life then there would be
no fire fighters, no police officers, no soldiers, and science and
business would grind to a halt. Life is a risk in the face of
uncertain knowledge of what the future holds and the only
alternative to taking this risk is just to lay down and die.
If it is impossible to know
First off, it's not impossible to know. In fact, we know that they
are not alive by the definitions of brain activity, which are the
same standards used with any other living human being. You simply
refuse to apply that same standard to them because of religious
biases and special pleading.
whether a human being is present, nothing
whatever may be done that could be risky.
I suppose that's why allegedly "pro-life" president george w bush
fought a war of choice in Iraq based upon the false premise that
saddam had weapons of mass destruction. He was willing to risk
human life on the basis of imperfect knowledge. Bush was also
willing to execute over 150 people in Texas, even though some of
these people had court appointed lawyers who feel asleep in the
courtroom as opposed to defending them. Bush wasn't particularly
worried that some of the people he was executing might actually be
innocent, despite the high probability that at least one or two of
those people were wrongly convicted.
This ethic is dismissed in
the research community, however, since it would put an immediate halt
to all such experimentation.
Nope. The so-called ethic can be trivially satisfied, since the
microscopic organism in question lacks a brain, nerves, circulatory
system and many other features required to be human. It might have
the same genes as a human has, but a blueprint also has all the
details required to construct a building. Nobody confuses a
blueprint with the actual building, though pro-lie, anti-aborters
try to confuse the blastocyst blueprint with an actual human being.
This basic ethical principle related to embryo experimentation was
worked out in detail as early as 1986 in a Vatican
That merely exposes the obvious, brainwashed religious bias of the
article and inaccurately presumes that the Vatican was qualified to
comment on these matters.
document, Donum
Vitae, which examined the ethics of the then new field of in vitro
fertilization. The document specifically addresses the issue of
twinning, saying, "Attempts or hypotheses for obtaining a human being
without any connection with sexuality through 'twin fission,'
cloning or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral
law."
Nobody should care what these vatican morons declare, since it is
without basis in reasoning or reality. There is no reason to
believe that there is anything inherently immoral about inducing
artificial twinning in and of itself. Furthermore, the desire is
not to produce twins, but to produce stem cells derived from a
blastocyst which may still be carried to term or frozen for use at a
later date.
--
"Faith, indeed, has up to the present not been
able to move real mountains ... But it can put
mountains where there are none." -- Nietzsche
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| User: "Loose Cannon" |
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| Title: Re: Cloners in State of Complete Moral Disconnect |
09 Jun 2005 11:51:57 AM |
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Insane forging pedophile and coward IBenGetiner/JYoung <Lappcatt@AOL.com>
<youngopinions@aol.com> engaging in the internet equivalent of a Chinese
fire drill forging as "loose cannon" <looseaint@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1118335567.962096.71140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
<Lifesite crap flushed>
Speaking of "moral discontent":
"Every damned day when I get out of bed, I offer up praise and song to
the Good Lord above for sending AIDS.
And let's not forget the marvelous effect HIV is having on our
charming and selfless black community.... They're coming down with it
in droves."~ JYoung/IBenGetiner, by no means a moral example.
Message-ID: <6ba61564.0403150031.a9bbc9b@posting.google.com>
LC~ Gotta love forging bigots trumpeting 'morality'.
"I'm no Grand Wizard. Although I did meet him and speak to him on several
occasions back during my first days with his ... organization. See,
azzhole... they all wear business suites now-days. Makes it so much easier
to watch the other's backs."~ From: (IBen Getiner), bigot
for Jesus.
Message-ID: <20040803050412.23098.00002844@mb-m07.aol.com>
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