| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2006 11:13:35 AM |
| Object: |
Closet Atheist |
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 03:00:36 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet
() made the light shine upon us with this:
But I do wonder about atheists marrying believers. It seems such a huge
chasm to me. I don't think I'd be attracted to someone who believed in
the supernatural.
I didn't marry an atheist, nor did I marry a nudist. Heh. Love is where
you find it.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 10:53:26 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:13:35 -0800, V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple of
Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being atheist
would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else have to be a
closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Don't call yourself an 'atheist'; refer to yourself as an 'agnostic'.
Without getting into the whole debate about the precise meanings of these
terms, be advised that the RCC has a long history of equating atheism with
immorality. Wikipedia has a good article that explains it.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
18 Nov 2006 10:58:39 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:13:35 -0800, V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple of
Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being atheist
would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else have to be a
closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Don't call yourself an 'atheist'; refer to yourself as an 'agnostic'.
Without getting into the whole debate about the precise meanings of these
terms, be advised that the RCC has a long history of equating atheism with
immorality. Wikipedia has a good article that explains it.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
Good point Mark. But are not all atheists really agnostics? for until
we die we really do not know about this god issue? For sure we have
ideas, but just like believers no one really knows.
V
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
18 Nov 2006 02:16:04 PM |
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On 18 Nov 2006 08:58:39 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1163869119.267068.207310@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
MarkA wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:13:35 -0800, V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple of
Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being atheist
would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else have to be a
closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Don't call yourself an 'atheist'; refer to yourself as an 'agnostic'.
Without getting into the whole debate about the precise meanings of these
terms, be advised that the RCC has a long history of equating atheism with
immorality. Wikipedia has a good article that explains it.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
Good point Mark. But are not all atheists really agnostics? for until
we die we really do not know about this god issue? For sure we have
ideas, but just like believers no one really knows.
V
Until we die, we do not know about the Invisible Pink Unicorn "issue",
nor the Flying Spaghetti Monster "issue", nor the Re-incarnation
"issue" nor the Kfjoipf Jwpolfiwe "issue", nor the Iwqejkufdrk Fkjold
"issue", (repeat an infinite number of times).
Each of which has exactly the same evidence: zero.
Each of which has exactly the same probability of being true: zero.
(One choice out of an infinite number)
Once you start that illogical agnostic *****, (but only with
regards to *one* illiterate goat-herders' god, or even just a finite
number of irrationally selected gods), you head down a path of
infinite regression from which there is no return.
Better off to not go down it in the first place.
--
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
20 Nov 2006 02:25:07 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 08:58:39 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1163869119.267068.207310@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
MarkA wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:13:35 -0800, V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple of
Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being atheist
would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else have to be a
closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Don't call yourself an 'atheist'; refer to yourself as an 'agnostic'.
Without getting into the whole debate about the precise meanings of these
terms, be advised that the RCC has a long history of equating atheism with
immorality. Wikipedia has a good article that explains it.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
Good point Mark. But are not all atheists really agnostics? for until
we die we really do not know about this god issue? For sure we have
ideas, but just like believers no one really knows.
V
Until we die, we do not know about the Invisible Pink Unicorn "issue",
nor the Flying Spaghetti Monster "issue", nor the Re-incarnation
"issue" nor the Kfjoipf Jwpolfiwe "issue", nor the Iwqejkufdrk Fkjold
"issue", (repeat an infinite number of times).
Each of which has exactly the same evidence: zero.
Each of which has exactly the same probability of being true: zero.
(One choice out of an infinite number)
Once you start that illogical agnostic *****, (but only with
regards to *one* illiterate goat-herders' god, or even just a finite
number of irrationally selected gods), you head down a path of
infinite regression from which there is no return.
Better off to not go down it in the first place.
--
Sure we have to give best effort in how to live life, but point is no
one really knows be it the religious or the atheist.
V
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
20 Nov 2006 03:46:12 PM |
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On 20 Nov 2006 12:25:07 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1164054307.358147.53270@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 08:58:39 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1163869119.267068.207310@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
MarkA wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:13:35 -0800, V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple of
Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being atheist
would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else have to be a
closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Don't call yourself an 'atheist'; refer to yourself as an 'agnostic'.
Without getting into the whole debate about the precise meanings of these
terms, be advised that the RCC has a long history of equating atheism with
immorality. Wikipedia has a good article that explains it.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
Good point Mark. But are not all atheists really agnostics? for until
we die we really do not know about this god issue? For sure we have
ideas, but just like believers no one really knows.
V
Until we die, we do not know about the Invisible Pink Unicorn "issue",
nor the Flying Spaghetti Monster "issue", nor the Re-incarnation
"issue" nor the Kfjoipf Jwpolfiwe "issue", nor the Iwqejkufdrk Fkjold
"issue", (repeat an infinite number of times).
Each of which has exactly the same evidence: zero.
Each of which has exactly the same probability of being true: zero.
(One choice out of an infinite number)
Once you start that illogical agnostic *****, (but only with
regards to *one* illiterate goat-herders' god, or even just a finite
number of irrationally selected gods), you head down a path of
infinite regression from which there is no return.
Better off to not go down it in the first place.
--
Sure we have to give best effort in how to live life, but point is no
one really knows be it the religious or the atheist.
Only in the most pointless and trivial technical sense.
--
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
20 Nov 2006 08:41:11 PM |
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On 20 Nov 2006 12:25:07 -0800, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
Sure we have to give best effort in how to live life, but point is no
one really knows be it the religious or the atheist.
Atheism isn't an active state, it's merely not accepting the
assertions of theists. You can't be not-theist, not-atheist - if
you're one you're not the other, there's no third position.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 01:05:01 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet V (vfr44@aol.com) made the
light shine upon us with this:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
My family labeled me an atheist before I knew that's what I was. My wife
is at peace with it. My kids don't care, as long as I don't get into a
rant when their friends are over. My parents are dead, but my father was
an atheist, and my brother is an atheist. My wife's stepfather sent me
an anti-atheist chain e-mail once, and I gave him both barrels. So much
for the in-laws. Most people at work have caught on by now, but it
doesn't matter much in a career where gays are more than acceptable.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 11:33:30 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet V (vfr44@aol.com) made the
light shine upon us with this:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
My family labeled me an atheist before I knew that's what I was.
Rule number 1: Know yourself. I would have expected good old Uncle Vic
to know this. You are a sorry waste.
My wife
is at peace with it. My kids don't care, as long as I don't get into a
rant when their friends are over.
This explains why you appear to always be heavily "medicated".
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
16 Nov 2006 12:31:57 PM |
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V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
I have been reading the responses to this post, and thinking
about it for a couple days. I had a much easier time with
coming out as atheist than you will (probably) because my
whole immediate family left the Catholic church as a group,
when I was a teenager (after extended family discussions).
I don't think there is any other single thing I admire more
about my parents than that.
But I think the key to your telling your extended family the
truth about how you think about faith and religion is how
the subject is originally introduced. I doubt you should
initiate the conversation by announcing, out of the blue,
that you are atheist. But, if the question ever arises or
is hinted at, I think you should start by reassuring them
that your beliefs are not a reaction against them,
personally, and that you respect them too much to lie to
them, even though such a lie might to improve their opinion
of you. In other words, graciously accept and respect their
right to like you less for who you really are. It is hard
to be magnanimous when you are not granted the power to be
the opposite.
Don't be surprised if you are swamped with detailed
questions about the experiences and process that led to your
change in viewpoint.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 12:26:52 PM |
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V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 01:49:43 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163615212.620619.10410@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Now, was that really necessary, Mr. Crankypants?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 02:01:59 PM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163615212.620619.10410@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Now, was that really necessary, Mr. Crankypants?
I guess I should have said "Maybe they don't like you because they
don't think you have a spine." Really, I don't know if that's the case
or not (V says not, so I believe him). I just don't think atheism
should have to be in the closet. I had some pretty good discussions
with my ex-Mother in Law who is Catholic. They were good, we both
enjoyed them, I got to know her better, we're still friendly, and they
wouldn't have happened if I hadn't replied honestly to her question
about what I (don't) believe. I had to think twice about it, but I'm
glad I did. I know each case is different, though, and I apologize to
everyone for the misunderstanding.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
16 Nov 2006 11:31:42 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163620919.645795.284510@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163615212.620619.10410@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my
wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a
couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Now, was that really necessary, Mr. Crankypants?
I guess I should have said "Maybe they don't like you because they
don't think you have a spine." Really, I don't know if that's the case
or not (V says not, so I believe him). I just don't think atheism
should have to be in the closet.
Perhaps not, but it doesn't have be thrown in someone's face either -
Especially when you already know upfront it's going to get a bad reception.
I had some pretty good discussions
with my ex-Mother in Law who is Catholic. They were good, we both
enjoyed them, I got to know her better, we're still friendly, and they
wouldn't have happened if I hadn't replied honestly to her question
about what I (don't) believe. I had to think twice about it, but I'm
glad I did. I know each case is different, though, and I apologize to
everyone for the misunderstanding.
Alrighty then ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
16 Nov 2006 07:48:49 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163615212.620619.10410@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Now, was that really necessary, Mr. Crankypants?
I guess I should have said "Maybe they don't like you because they
don't think you have a spine." Really, I don't know if that's the case
or not (V says not, so I believe him). I just don't think atheism
should have to be in the closet. I had some pretty good discussions
with my ex-Mother in Law who is Catholic. They were good, we both
enjoyed them, I got to know her better, we're still friendly, and they
wouldn't have happened if I hadn't replied honestly to her question
about what I (don't) believe. I had to think twice about it, but I'm
glad I did. I know each case is different, though, and I apologize to
everyone for the misunderstanding.
V:
No, Atheism does not have to be shut up. But as a Buddhism I also work
to be aware of compassion for others, so am hesitant in hurting old
people that just a few years to live if that for no reason. They will
not change their views after 80+ years.
Robyn talked about studying Buddhism. I draw from many spiritual
traditions myself, including Buddhism and Taoism. My main focus of my
Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are
common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence
of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this
type of simplified practice.
3 Pillars of Buddhism
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in god, so anyone
can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs
or lack thereof. Buddha was not a god and just a man, so not need to
worship him unless you are a 'Pure Land Buddhist.' In addition to the 3
pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us.
The Eightfold Path
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what
destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes
you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher
for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best
teacher?
The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice. No one to
boss you other than you...you alone are in control of your inner peace.
The Five Precepts
1. Refrain from Killing:
2. Refrain from Stealing:
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
4. Refrain from False Speech:
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:
I came to Buddhism slowly through my studies about 1999. My earliest
exposure was from Thich Nhat Hanh, Allen Watts and the Dalai Lama. I
practice for inner peace, but also it might be termed enlightenment.
Buddhism provides this tool, which is just one out of the many tools I
use for peace development. For once we have found a contentment within
and with all and are at peace - we are progressing on the road to
enlightenment. You can also tell when you have "arrived" by your
practice telling you so. Does your practice revolve around actually
practicing what you have learned to generate peace within or are you on
a never ending journey of always looking and never finding?
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for
themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice. I have no
interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing reincarnation. These
"fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are not authentic or natural
- the persons actions are based on fear or negative consequences
otherwise they would not do them. My actions are based on inner peace
and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice. I enjoy life
and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes about as part of
the process. The Taoists have a saying for this, "fleas come with the
dog." So, I accept there are growth pains as a fair trade off for the
privilege of living and I would enjoy any reincarnation if given the
chance. Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my
favor by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice
Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my
own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
I'd like to point out that my views are not the orthodox or traditional
views on these subjects.
Good Luck,
V
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
16 Nov 2006 11:57:27 AM |
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V wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163615212.620619.10410@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Now, was that really necessary, Mr. Crankypants?
I guess I should have said "Maybe they don't like you because they
don't think you have a spine." Really, I don't know if that's the case
or not (V says not, so I believe him). I just don't think atheism
should have to be in the closet. I had some pretty good discussions
with my ex-Mother in Law who is Catholic. They were good, we both
enjoyed them, I got to know her better, we're still friendly, and they
wouldn't have happened if I hadn't replied honestly to her question
about what I (don't) believe. I had to think twice about it, but I'm
glad I did. I know each case is different, though, and I apologize to
everyone for the misunderstanding.
V:
No, Atheism does not have to be shut up. But as a Buddhism I also work
to be aware of compassion for others, so am hesitant in hurting old
people that just a few years to live if that for no reason. They will
not change their views after 80+ years.
Sometimes even old people like to be engaged in an interesting lively
conversation. I'm not saying this is the case here, I don't know them,
maybe they'll take complete offence. You're the judge of that, but I
don't like being walked on just to appease someone's "feelings." I view
them as bullies, elderly or not. Is it compassionate to just let them
be bullies?
And compassion is not exclusive to Buddhism.
Robyn talked about studying Buddhism. I draw from many spiritual
traditions myself, including Buddhism and Taoism. My main focus of my
Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are
common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence
of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this
type of simplified practice.
3 Pillars of Buddhism
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
Is it more compassionate or less compassionate to say what you think is
the truth to others?
Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in god, so anyone
can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs
or lack thereof. Buddha was not a god and just a man, so not need to
worship him unless you are a 'Pure Land Buddhist.' In addition to the 3
pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us.
The Eightfold Path
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what
destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes
you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher
for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best
teacher?
I'm familiar with Buddhism. While I agree with some of the tenets, it's
not for me, I prefer jazz to peace.
The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice. No one to
boss you other than you...you alone are in control of your inner peace.
The Five Precepts
1. Refrain from Killing:
2. Refrain from Stealing:
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
4. Refrain from False Speech:
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:
I'm a bit of a sarcastic hedonist but I can respect those ideals.
I came to Buddhism slowly through my studies about 1999. My earliest
exposure was from Thich Nhat Hanh, Allen Watts and the Dalai Lama.
I read Allen Watts in the early '70's. I have a lot of friends of that
bent. I'm not like that. They want to slow everything down, I want to
speed everything up.
I practice for inner peace, but also it might be termed enlightenment.
Buddhism provides this tool, which is just one out of the many tools I
use for peace development. For once we have found a contentment within
and with all and are at peace - we are progressing on the road to
enlightenment. You can also tell when you have "arrived" by your
practice telling you so. Does your practice revolve around actually
practicing what you have learned to generate peace within or are you on
a never ending journey of always looking and never finding?
I'm always looking and always finding, someone like RIchard Dawkins
being a role model for me. Inner peace bores the crap out of me,
personally. I understand why it is attractive to others.
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for
themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice. I have no
interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing reincarnation. These
"fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are not authentic or natural
- the persons actions are based on fear or negative consequences
otherwise they would not do them. My actions are based on inner peace
and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice. I enjoy life
and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes about as part of
the process. The Taoists have a saying for this, "fleas come with the
dog." So, I accept there are growth pains as a fair trade off for the
privilege of living and I would enjoy any reincarnation if given the
chance. Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my
favor by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice
Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my
own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
I'd like to point out that my views are not the orthodox or traditional
views on these subjects.
They sound like the views of many Buddhists I've talked to. Like I
said, I'm not big on suffering. Take the case of your elderly in-laws
and elderly mother. It seems like everybody is suffering here, you and
them. I think suffering can be resolved. If you're not telling them
what you think, are you refraining from the use of false speech?
.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
18 Nov 2006 10:47:17 AM |
|
|
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
Sometimes even old people like to be engaged in an interesting lively
conversation. I'm not saying this is the case here, I don't know them,
maybe they'll take complete offence. You're the judge of that, but I
don't like being walked on just to appease someone's "feelings." I view
them as bullies, elderly or not. Is it compassionate to just let them
be bullies?
And compassion is not exclusive to Buddhism.
V:
Yes, for sure. But Buddhism helps focus some attention towards it.
Lively conversation and old people ...good for their brain.
see my post:
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19896&highlight
Robyn talked about studying Buddhism. I draw from many spiritual
traditions myself, including Buddhism and Taoism. My main focus of my
Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are
common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence
of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this
type of simplified practice.
3 Pillars of Buddhism
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
Is it more compassionate or less compassionate to say what you think is
the truth to others?
Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in god, so anyone
can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs
or lack thereof. Buddha was not a god and just a man, so not need to
worship him unless you are a 'Pure Land Buddhist.' In addition to the 3
pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us.
The Eightfold Path
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what
destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes
you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher
for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best
teacher?
I'm familiar with Buddhism. While I agree with some of the tenets, it's
not for me, I prefer jazz to peace.
The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice. No one to
boss you other than you...you alone are in control of your inner peace.
The Five Precepts
1. Refrain from Killing:
2. Refrain from Stealing:
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
4. Refrain from False Speech:
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:
I'm a bit of a sarcastic hedonist but I can respect those ideals.
V: good for you - you can think for yourself.
I came to Buddhism slowly through my studies about 1999. My earliest
exposure was from Thich Nhat Hanh, Allen Watts and the Dalai Lama.
I read Allen Watts in the early '70's. I have a lot of friends of that
bent. I'm not like that. They want to slow everything down, I want to
speed everything up.
V:
Speed up? We only have to please ourselves.
As an offshoot to my simple living work, I now use the practice of
"voluntary solitude" to give me a more peaceful life. The same way I
pick and choose which complexities of living I allow in my life, I now
do the same with noise and commotion. I first learned of this concept
when reading a book by the granddaddy of backpacking Colin Fletcher. He
described the benefits of pure solitude by walking alone. It occurred
to me I was addicted to noise and commotion. I felt like my mind was
going to explode some days. Music and noise kept repeating in my brain
all night and my sleep was fitful. I had the TV blasting all day with
the stock channel or the news or whatever. It didn't matter if I
watched it or not, I just liked the noise. I had the radio or CD going
whenever I was driving. Even on the trail when hiking or biking, I had
on earphones and at the pool a radio blaring. My mind was full of noise
and I could never seem to get any escape with noise even in my sleep.
Once I started with voluntary solitude and shut off the noise, I went
though a period of noise withdrawal for a few days, but gradually could
see things were getting better. Sometimes our peace is disturbed by
other means than noise. I've seen persons going out to be alone in
nature and they bring their computer or paperwork with them. Maybe they
have removed some of the fuel for their stressed life but cannot let go
of it all and must still feed their addiction even while in nature. Be
aware of peace disrupters in your life, irrespective of whether they
make sounds or not. I now am very choosy when it comes to noise
pollution and other disruptions entering me that can be cured by using
solitude, deep quiet and renunciation. When we are quiet within we are
in an easier position to find peace. I've known some people that have a
completely quiet day once per week seeking quiet for their mouth and
speak to no one in addition to seeking quiet for their ears. Other
persons I have talked with just make an effort to lower the volume of
the noise they intake as well as lowering the volume of the noise they
output...lowering their voice. No matter which road you choose, now is
a wonderful time to seek the solitude of nature and practice voluntary
solitude in whatever degree you choose.
I'm always looking and always finding, someone like RIchard Dawkins
being a role model for me. Inner peace bores the crap out of me,
personally. I understand why it is attractive to others.
V:
Yes, we all need some action. But too much action in the wrong
direction yields much pain I prefer peace and doing wheelies on my dirt
bike or kayaking for action
V
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
20 Nov 2006 04:02:41 PM |
|
|
V wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
Sometimes even old people like to be engaged in an interesting lively
conversation. I'm not saying this is the case here, I don't know them,
maybe they'll take complete offence. You're the judge of that, but I
don't like being walked on just to appease someone's "feelings." I view
them as bullies, elderly or not. Is it compassionate to just let them
be bullies?
And compassion is not exclusive to Buddhism.
V:
Yes, for sure. But Buddhism helps focus some attention towards it.
Lively conversation and old people ...good for their brain.
see my post:
http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19896&highlight
Robyn talked about studying Buddhism. I draw from many spiritual
traditions myself, including Buddhism and Taoism. My main focus of my
Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are
common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence
of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this
type of simplified practice.
3 Pillars of Buddhism
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
Is it more compassionate or less compassionate to say what you think is
the truth to others?
Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in god, so anyone
can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs
or lack thereof. Buddha was not a god and just a man, so not need to
worship him unless you are a 'Pure Land Buddhist.' In addition to the 3
pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us.
The Eightfold Path
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what
destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes
you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher
for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best
teacher?
I'm familiar with Buddhism. While I agree with some of the tenets, it's
not for me, I prefer jazz to peace.
The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice. No one to
boss you other than you...you alone are in control of your inner peace.
The Five Precepts
1. Refrain from Killing:
2. Refrain from Stealing:
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
4. Refrain from False Speech:
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:
I'm a bit of a sarcastic hedonist but I can respect those ideals.
V: good for you - you can think for yourself.
I came to Buddhism slowly through my studies about 1999. My earliest
exposure was from Thich Nhat Hanh, Allen Watts and the Dalai Lama.
I read Allen Watts in the early '70's. I have a lot of friends of that
bent. I'm not like that. They want to slow everything down, I want to
speed everything up.
V:
Speed up? We only have to please ourselves.
As an offshoot to my simple living work, I now use the practice of
"voluntary solitude" to give me a more peaceful life. The same way I
pick and choose which complexities of living I allow in my life, I now
do the same with noise and commotion. I first learned of this concept
when reading a book by the granddaddy of backpacking Colin Fletcher. He
described the benefits of pure solitude by walking alone. It occurred
to me I was addicted to noise and commotion. I felt like my mind was
going to explode some days. Music and noise kept repeating in my brain
all night and my sleep was fitful. I had the TV blasting all day with
the stock channel or the news or whatever. It didn't matter if I
watched it or not, I just liked the noise. I had the radio or CD going
whenever I was driving. Even on the trail when hiking or biking, I had
on earphones and at the pool a radio blaring. My mind was full of noise
and I could never seem to get any escape with noise even in my sleep.
Once I started with voluntary solitude and shut off the noise, I went
though a period of noise withdrawal for a few days, but gradually could
see things were getting better. Sometimes our peace is disturbed by
other means than noise. I've seen persons going out to be alone in
nature and they bring their computer or paperwork with them. Maybe they
have removed some of the fuel for their stressed life but cannot let go
of it all and must still feed their addiction even while in nature. Be
aware of peace disrupters in your life, irrespective of whether they
make sounds or not.
I've been an avid hiker and kayaker my entire life. Our family had a
cabin on the beach a remote inlet in coastal British Columbia. I'd
bring friends up to stay there. There were quite a few who were like
you, who sought inner peace, and thought being at one with nature was a
way to do it. It would strike me as odd that they would spend the
entire time in this pristine environment lecturing me about how I
should find this thing that they had, not seeming to be aware that the
place where they stood that was giving them this air of superiority was
place where I had grown up. It seemed to me that they removed
themselves from the experience they were bragging about by imposing
their egos upon it. It was like a who could be the most spiritual
contest, one that I don't play, since I don't have a spiritual bone in
my body. I do have a deep love of nature, though. I tended to
appreciate more and more the more curious (and less egotistical)
friends who drifted towards science, the ones that I could turn over
rocks with to see what was under them, the ones that I could get a book
on mushrooms or birds and identify whatever we could find. I am not a
meditative sort, I don't seek inner peace, and I don't see myself as
superior or inferior because of it.
I now am very choosy when it comes to noise
pollution and other disruptions entering me that can be cured by using
solitude, deep quiet and renunciation.
I'm not big on renouncing things either. Or at least announcing
renouncements. It just strikes me as a bit sanctimonious.
When we are quiet within we are
in an easier position to find peace. I've known some people that have a
completely quiet day once per week seeking quiet for their mouth and
speak to no one in addition to seeking quiet for their ears. Other
persons I have talked with just make an effort to lower the volume of
the noise they intake as well as lowering the volume of the noise they
output...lowering their voice. No matter which road you choose, now is
a wonderful time to seek the solitude of nature and practice voluntary
solitude in whatever degree you choose.
And I see this as fairly sanctimonious too. I'm sure you're great but I
have no interest in being like you. I like loud boisterous people, I
don't care if they speak in a loud voice. I like soft spoken people
too. And you are making all sorts of assumptions about me. I have spent
a LOT of time exploring this vast coastal forest by myself and with
others, I don't call it anything other than going for a hike. When I'm
there I appreciate it for what it is, when I'm in the city I appreciate
that for what it is. Loud and fast.
I'm always looking and always finding, someone like RIchard Dawkins
being a role model for me. Inner peace bores the crap out of me,
personally. I understand why it is attractive to others.
V:
Yes, we all need some action. But too much action in the wrong
direction yields much pain I prefer peace and doing wheelies on my dirt
bike or kayaking for action
That doesn't make those activities superior to playing electric guitar
turned up to volume 11. Or inferior. I think anally measuring
activities yields much pain. At least it yields ME much pain.
.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 12:36:16 PM |
|
|
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 01:12:44 PM |
|
|
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
Really? I wasn't trying to be. I don't know if V has a spine or not, I
said "maybe." I meant that it is possible to tell someone what you
think even if you disagree with them, and sometimes that they will
respect you for it, and that they might not respect you in the first
place because you tend to tiptoe around like you're hiding something
from them. They might think you're afraid of them, and people often
disrespect that. I have no idea if this is the case, but I'm throwing
it out there for V to decide. I just don't think you should be in a
closet just because you're an atheist.
.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 03:13:11 PM |
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|
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
Really? I wasn't trying to be. I don't know if V has a spine or not, I
said "maybe." I meant that it is possible to tell someone what you
think even if you disagree with them, and sometimes that they will
respect you for it, and that they might not respect you in the first
place because you tend to tiptoe around like you're hiding something
from them.
Yes, it certainly is possible with some people. But from V's
description we can be pretty much certain that these are not the kinds
of people that it is possible with.
They might think you're afraid of them, and people often
disrespect that. I have no idea if this is the case, but I'm throwing
it out there for V to decide. I just don't think you should be in a
closet just because you're an atheist.
.
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| User: "Ghod" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 03:58:58 PM |
|
|
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163625191.367501.83020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've
told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling
myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My
Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws
have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway,
so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches.
Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the
family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
Really? I wasn't trying to be. I don't know if V has a spine or
not, I
said "maybe." I meant that it is possible to tell someone what you
think even if you disagree with them, and sometimes that they will
respect you for it, and that they might not respect you in the
first
place because you tend to tiptoe around like you're hiding
something
from them.
Yes, it certainly is possible with some people. But from V's
description we can be pretty much certain that these are not the
kinds
of people that it is possible with.
You're making that assumption without much of a description.
They might think you're afraid of them, and people often
disrespect that. I have no idea if this is the case, but I'm
throwing
it out there for V to decide. I just don't think you should be in
a
closet just because you're an atheist.
We have nothing to fear, but fear its self. If you are in a position
where knowledge of your atheism can cause you real harm, I can't
entirely fault you for keeping quiet about it, but unless we're
speaking of real harm, not just having relatives/inlaws hate you,
you're much better off getting it out into the open. I've had to put
up with quite a lot from self-righteous theists who felt it to be
their mission in life to convert me....strangely, they ALWAYS assume
that I was raised as an atheist, and so, have little or no knowledge
of xianity.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
16 Nov 2006 11:35:05 AM |
|
|
"Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:ejg2j2$d9$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163625191.367501.83020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've
told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling
myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My
Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws
have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway,
so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches.
Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the
family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
Really? I wasn't trying to be. I don't know if V has a spine or
not, I
said "maybe." I meant that it is possible to tell someone what you
think even if you disagree with them, and sometimes that they will
respect you for it, and that they might not respect you in the
first
place because you tend to tiptoe around like you're hiding
something
from them.
Yes, it certainly is possible with some people. But from V's
description we can be pretty much certain that these are not the
kinds
of people that it is possible with.
You're making that assumption without much of a description.
They might think you're afraid of them, and people often
disrespect that. I have no idea if this is the case, but I'm
throwing
it out there for V to decide. I just don't think you should be in
a
closet just because you're an atheist.
We have nothing to fear, but fear its self. If you are in a position
where knowledge of your atheism can cause you real harm, I can't
entirely fault you for keeping quiet about it, but unless we're
speaking of real harm, not just having relatives/inlaws hate you,
you're much better off getting it out into the open. I've had to put
up with quite a lot from self-righteous theists who felt it to be
their mission in life to convert me....strangely, they ALWAYS assume
that I was raised as an atheist, and so, have little or no knowledge
of xianity.
That is strange because nearly ever theist I've run into is shocked that I
wasn't raised in a religion, that I have NEVER believed. They seem to be
able to comprehend turning away from christianity, but never having ever
believed in it.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "V" |
|
| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 01:38:56 PM |
|
|
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
Ignore him, V. He's an *****.
Really? I wasn't trying to be. I don't know if V has a spine or not, I
said "maybe." I meant that it is possible to tell someone what you
think even if you disagree with them, and sometimes that they will
respect you for it, and that they might not respect you in the first
place because you tend to tiptoe around like you're hiding something
from them. They might think you're afraid of them, and people often
disrespect that. I have no idea if this is the case, but I'm throwing
it out there for V to decide. I just don't think you should be in a
closet just because you're an atheist.
V:
No, it is not for religious reasons or spine issues they do not like
me. Lets just say lifestyle choices.
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 11:22:14 PM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Maybe they don't like you because you don't have a spine.
My thoughts exactly.
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| User: "SmartyPants" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 12:34:06 PM |
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V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
My mother is Jewish and my Father is Catholic. My Wife's family is
Baptist.
I am not uncomfortable being around people who believe something
different from me.
If they have a problem, then they're not somebody I want to associate
with, simple.
Try to identify who has the problem here. It sounds like either YOU are
unsure of what you actually believe, or the people around you are
intolerant.
If it is your problem, then get over it.
If it is their problem, then you have to decide what will happen if you
press your beliefs.
If the unfavorable result of this pressing outweighs the relief you
will feel in expressing your beliefs, then just keep your mouth shut
moron.
Decide what is more important to you and decide what will happen if you
become openly atheist.
Once you know these two things the rest is easy.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 11:27:05 AM |
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V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Were you an atheist when you married her? If so, why did you marry
someone that you didn't feel that you could be open with?
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Closet Atheist |
15 Nov 2006 01:36:34 PM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
V wrote:
All my families and wife come from Catholicism. While I've told my wife
some of my more benign ideas but stopping short of calling myself an
atheist. I've not spoken a word to in-laws or my parents. My Mom is a
light duty holy roller and is in her eighties. My in-laws have a couple
of Catholic priests in their families and dislike me anyway, so being
atheist would ratchet that hatred up many more notches. Anyone else
have to be a closet atheist due to conflicts within the family?
V
Were you an atheist when you married her? If so, why did you marry
someone that you didn't feel that you could be open with?
V:
No, got married in '85. Just recently did this issue surface.
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