| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
15 Jan 2005 09:58:01 AM |
| Object: |
Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
From the article:
--------------------------------------------------------
I have to admit it. U.S. President George Bush is beginning to grow on
me.
In an interview with a Washington newspaper this past week, he made
two statements that have landed him in a certain amount of trouble,
but which are in fact supremely wise.
The first was that a political leader, particularly an American
president, should be a person of faith. The second was that women
should never have to fight on the ground, in the front line, in a
military conflict.
As for the former, he is absolutely correct. People who believe in
their own supremacy rather than that of a higher being are far more
capable of acts of sadism and horror. Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot,
among others, have taught us that.
Yes, I know that religious people have committed terrible crimes down
the ages, but they have done so in spite of, and in contradiction to,
their beliefs. Atheists have no such moral compass and may act
according to will and whim.
Popular myth has it that religion has caused more wars and led to more
suffering than anything else in history. Glib and gruesome. Death
camps, genocide and world wars are almost exclusively the product of
the hatred, not the love, of God.
----------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Michael_Coren/2005/01/15/899007.html
J. Spaceman
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| User: "SReeseMe" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
15 Jan 2005 05:16:15 PM |
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<< Subject: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:58 AM
Message-id: <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com> >><BR><BR>
<Snip>
I'm STILL waiting for a list of atheist mass murderers. Hitler and his inner
circle were pagans. Calling them atheists is laughable.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc were communists. Communism as they practiced it WAS
a religion or at the very least a cult as it was based on Marx's "prophesy" of
history.
So where then are all those atheist mass murders the fundie xians are whining
about?
Just a passing thought.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
19 Jan 2005 04:36:13 AM |
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On 15 Jan 2005 17:16:15 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
<< Subject: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:58 AM
Message-id: <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com> >><BR><BR>
<Snip>
I'm STILL waiting for a list of atheist mass murderers. Hitler and his inner
circle were pagans. Calling them atheists is laughable.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc were communists. Communism as they practiced it WAS
a religion or at the very least a cult as it was based on Marx's "prophesy" of
history.
Stalin went to Seminary.
Mao was taught by Christians.
So where then are all those atheist mass murders the fundie xians are whining
about?
Just a passing thought.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "Zepp" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
19 Jan 2005 10:31:20 AM |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:36:13 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> mumbled:
On 15 Jan 2005 17:16:15 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
<< Subject: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:58 AM
Message-id: <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com> >><BR><BR>
<Snip>
I'm STILL waiting for a list of atheist mass murderers. Hitler and his inner
circle were pagans. Calling them atheists is laughable.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc were communists. Communism as they practiced it WAS
a religion or at the very least a cult as it was based on Marx's "prophesy" of
history.
Stalin went to Seminary.
Stalin didn't preside over the deaths of millions as a priest.
Mao was taught by Christians.
Mao wasn't using Christ as an authority when he presided over the
deaths of millions before, during and after the "Cultural Revolution"
*****
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al: All Atheists.
Live with it.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
19 Jan 2005 11:49:06 PM |
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Hitler, Mussolini, America in conquering North America (millions of
Indians), the Spanish, (the same in Latin America, 100,000,000 dead by
some accounts) all done in the name of "god" and Christ specifically.
The crusades, the Inquisition and so on. Get a life, people murder and
commit genocide only do so for social reasons, usually proptery
'rights', trade, etc and not because they believe in god(s) or not. Get
a grip.
David
Zepp wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:36:13 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> mumbled:
On 15 Jan 2005 17:16:15 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
<< Subject: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:58 AM
Message-id: <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com> >><BR><BR>
<Snip>
I'm STILL waiting for a list of atheist mass murderers. Hitler and
his inner
circle were pagans. Calling them atheists is laughable.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc were communists. Communism as they
practiced it WAS
a religion or at the very least a cult as it was based on Marx's
"prophesy" of
history.
Stalin went to Seminary.
Stalin didn't preside over the deaths of millions as a priest.
Mao was taught by Christians.
Mao wasn't using Christ as an authority when he presided over the
deaths of millions before, during and after the "Cultural Revolution"
*****
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al: All Atheists.
Live with it.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
20 Jan 2005 12:09:27 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:31:20 GMT, (Zepp) wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:36:13 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> mumbled:
On 15 Jan 2005 17:16:15 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
<< Subject: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass
From: Jason Spaceman
Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2005 4:58 AM
Message-id: <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com> >><BR><BR>
<Snip>
I'm STILL waiting for a list of atheist mass murderers. Hitler and his inner
circle were pagans. Calling them atheists is laughable.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc were communists. Communism as they practiced it WAS
a religion or at the very least a cult as it was based on Marx's "prophesy" of
history.
Stalin went to Seminary.
Stalin didn't preside over the deaths of millions as a priest.
Where did I say he did, dumbshit?
Mao was taught by Christians.
Mao wasn't using Christ as an authority when he presided over the
deaths of millions before, during and after the "Cultural Revolution"
Where did I say he did, dumbshit?
*****
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al: All Atheists.
Live with it.
LMAO at the fucking moron. I didn't say they weren't atheists,
dipshit. However, atheism is not a motivator.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Gerard van Wilgen" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
15 Jan 2005 12:31:23 PM |
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As for the former, he is absolutely correct. People who believe in
their own supremacy rather than that of a higher being are far more
capable of acts of sadism and horror. Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot,
among others, have taught us that.
[en]
It seems reasonable to assume that people who believe that something is
morally good or bad just because their deity has defined it as such, are
more likely to commit atrocities if they think that it is the will of
that god. On the other hand, an atheist will only behave as a sadist if
he happens to be one.
[eo]
Åœajnas esti racie supozi ke homoj kiuj kredas ke io estas morale bona aÅ
malbone nur ĉar lia dio fifinis tion tiel, estas pli probable faremaj je
kruelegaĵoj se ili pensas ke tio estas la volo de tiu dio. Aliflanke,
ateisto nur kondutas kiel sadisto se li akcidente estas unu.
Yes, I know that religious people have committed terrible crimes down
the ages, but they have done so in spite of, and in contradiction to,
their beliefs. Atheists have no such moral compass and may act
according to will and whim.
Popular myth has it that religion has caused more wars and led to more
suffering than anything else in history. Glib and gruesome. Death
camps, genocide and world wars are almost exclusively the product of
the hatred, not the love, of God.
[en]
You could just as well say that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot (but NOT Hitler
who was a devout Catholic) commited their crimes despite being atheists
(and therefore not being forced by a deity to kill and torture).
[eo]
Oni samrajte diri ke Stalin, Mao kaj Pol Pot (sed NE Hitler, kiu estis
pia katoliko) faris siajn krimojn malgraÅ esti ateistoj (kaj tial ne
deviataj mortigi kaj torturi de dio).
Gerard van Wilgen
www.majstro.com
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| User: "sanguinevikings" |
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| Title: Let's try a new game. It's called 'If you can't take your own medicine..' |
15 Jan 2005 01:28:33 PM |
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Let's all try this:
Set aside everything we know about Christians (after all, it is clear
they know nothing about us), and construct a view of what Christians are
that is about based entirely on how we, as atheists, see things. I know
it is likely to be hard for people brought up as Christians to ignore
their background, but do try. For example, assume that it is axiomatic
that nobody honestly believes in God.
Having done the above, make up some smart sounding but simplistic piece
of invective about Christians, give it a snappy and provocative title
and post it to all the really busy Christian ngs.
See what happens next.
Just a thought. ;-)
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Let's try a new game. It's called 'If you can't take your own medicine..' |
16 Jan 2005 02:19:43 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:28:33 +0000, sanguinevikings <spam@spam.not> wrote:
Let's all try this:
Set aside everything we know about Christians (after all, it is clear
they know nothing about us), and construct a view of what Christians are
that is about based entirely on how we, as atheists, see things. I know
it is likely to be hard for people brought up as Christians to ignore
their background, but do try. For example, assume that it is axiomatic
that nobody honestly believes in God.
Having done the above, make up some smart sounding but simplistic piece
of invective about Christians, give it a snappy and provocative title
and post it to all the really busy Christian ngs.
See what happens next.
Just a thought. ;-)
Well, you clearly don't understand any truth about Christians, so you going to
fail right out of the starting gate.
but you atheists do have a very unlearned and active imagination, so let's see
what you come up with.
duke
In God We Trust
*****
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'
will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
*****
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
15 Jan 2005 01:11:43 PM |
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In our last episode <44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com>, Jason
Spaceman lept out of the bushes shouting:
<snip>
Yes, I know that religious people have committed terrible crimes down the
ages, but they have done so in spite of, and in contradiction to, their
beliefs.
Then religion is no more useful than any other moral code. If it has no
special ability to constrain the behavior of its followers, how is that
different from acting "according to will and whim?"
Atheists have no such moral compass and may act according to will
and whim.
And yet atheists have moral compasses. Weird huh?
Popular myth has it that religion has caused more wars and led to more
suffering than anything else in history.
"Popular" history. Snort.
Glib and gruesome. Death camps,
genocide and world wars are almost exclusively the product of the hatred,
not the love, of God.
Yet not only in the *Bible do you find a god *commanding genocidal
warfare, you find such things in all *kinds of holy texts. Not once do you
read in those texts of a follower that stands up to these beings and
refuses to commit such atrocities...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "Jordan89182" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
15 Jan 2005 10:16:46 PM |
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taken from http://www.atheists.org/comingout/othercloset.html
"while atheists make up 8-10% of the population at large, we only make up 1% of
the population in prison. "
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
16 Jan 2005 03:13:38 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:44qhu0dlasqfbm1b1i4139r5vq6c3lffg4@4ax.com:
Read it at
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Michael_Coren/2005/01/15/89900
7.html
Ah, coren. Silly ***** still has a job, I see.
--
Dr. Smartass -- BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur, nor?
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| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
15 Jan 2005 04:26:27 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:58:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
Popular myth has it that religion has caused more wars and led to more
suffering than anything else in history. Glib and gruesome. Death
camps, genocide and world wars are almost exclusively the product of
the hatred, not the love, of God.
It is atheists who ARE moral. Not theists. Morality is defined as
virtue, character and integrity. Theists are incapable of morality
because they fear divine retribution.
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| User: "Gary Bohn" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Atheists have no moral compass |
16 Jan 2005 12:39:04 AM |
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Rune Børsjø <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in
news:eqgiu0d04hu16qk915vcqlmd52fkbae5bj@4ax.com:
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:58:01 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
Popular myth has it that religion has caused more wars and led to more
suffering than anything else in history. Glib and gruesome. Death
camps, genocide and world wars are almost exclusively the product of
the hatred, not the love, of God.
It is atheists who ARE moral. Not theists. Morality is defined as
virtue, character and integrity. Theists are incapable of morality
because they fear divine retribution.
The problem is that our morals may be different than the theist's. Since
they believe their morals are divinely dictated and inerrant, any morals
that deviate from that god given set are by definition not moral
(immoral or amoral). And of course our definition of morality differs
from theirs.
If we remove the religion from the definition of morals and consider
only what is best for society (by allowing moral evolution to happen)
and the individual within that society, atheist's morals are more likely
to be 'good' for society or at least less likely to be detrimental. This
is because we can adapt our morals to the changes within society where
the religious have to follow, by their own choice, a set of morals that
are stagnant and become less relevant to society the further in time we
are from their (morals) creation.
Their basic argument is that 'god knows best'. Unfortunately their
entire argument is based on something less than reality.
--
apatriot #23, aa #2179, Grand Poobah, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation
Responsible for brain damage everywhere!
Gary Bohn
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