| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
11 Feb 2005 06:30:55 AM |
| Object: |
Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
From the article:
--------------------------------
Slightly more than half of the American people reject evolution. During
the last decade, the General Social Survey conducted by National Opinion
Research Center (and directed by my colleague Dr. Tom M. Smith) has asked
whether a respondent thinks that humans are descended from animals.
Fifty-two percent said that either this was definitely not true or
probably not true.
Ever since they won the battle but lost the war in the Scopes trial of
1925, conservative Christians have waged an intensive war against
evolution. Despite repeated court decisions insisting that evolution must
be taught in high school classes, the conservative Christians have managed
to keep one form or another of "creationism" alive and well as an
alternative in the minds of many Americans -- including 62 percent of
African-American Christians, 52 percent of mainline Protestants, 42
percent of Catholics and 26 percent of Jews. (Seventy-eight percent of
Conservative Christians reject evolution).
--------------------------------
Read it at http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel11.html
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Marc L." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
15 Feb 2005 08:27:58 PM |
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stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:hv92111bd00t0m9d1as830frtvec8sdois@4ax.com:
I think the only solution is an invasion by Canada.
Only as long as they bring the good beer......
Well, we'd have to stop in Ireland first then, but okay.
Marc
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
16 Feb 2005 05:26:53 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:27:58 GMT, "Marc L." <master.cougar@gmail.com>
wrote:
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in
news:hv92111bd00t0m9d1as830frtvec8sdois@4ax.com:
I think the only solution is an invasion by Canada.
Only as long as they bring the good beer......
Well, we'd have to stop in Ireland first then, but okay.
( chuckling )
Nice return shot!
Don't forget to take your brass knuckles with you...
Marc
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Dean Chesterman" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 12:38:51 PM |
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stew dean wrote:
Richard Forrest wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
--------------------------------
From the article: "Slightly more than half of the American people
reject evolution. "
I wish more Americans would see that this as a criticism of their
educational system rather than an argument against evolution.
Same half that think the US is the biggest country in the world (at a
guess).
Us Brits delight at taking the micky out of dumb americans but I, at
least, realise that there is a good percentage of the country that
dispair at all this.
I think the only solution is an invasion by Canada.
Stew Dean
Thank you, no, our government has used the big bully next door as an
excuse to gut military spending for at least 30 years. We have neither
the means nor the people to pull it off. The Mouse that Roared is about
the best we could hope for. The worst is down right ugly!
Dean Chesterman
Proud Canadian, with retread submarines
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| User: "grazer" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 08:18:42 AM |
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This is really quite sad. There still exists a residual distrust of
science within the United States.
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| User: "bldc" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 11:39:23 AM |
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Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 12:23:46 PM |
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"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Your twisitng the facts to support your agenda.
In the 150 years since Darwin's Theory of Evolution tons of objective
evidence from fossils, cellular chemistry, DNA etc. have confirmed the
soundness of this theory.
Morality is not founded on religion but on civilizations establishment of
moral rules and laws to foster a healthy and constructive society.
Basing morality and civil law on religions is like building skyscrapers
on foundations of sand.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 10:42:03 PM |
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"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Recently there was a story about John and Linda Dollar who adopted 7
children and tortured and starved 5 of them. They were described by fellow
church members as "very religious". Meanwhile in Texas we've had women
drowning their children, women bashing their children's heads in with rocks,
and women cutting their baby's arms off, ALL in the name of God. They were
ALL "good" Christians. I don't think I've ever read one of these horrific
child torture/murder stories that read anything like the following:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
.
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| User: "Khartoum" |
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| Title: AQOTM Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 08:38:16 PM |
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"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in
news:vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Begin nominated portion
Recently there was a story about John and Linda Dollar who adopted 7
children and tortured and starved 5 of them. They were described by
fellow church members as "very religious". Meanwhile in Texas we've
had women drowning their children, women bashing their children's
heads in with rocks, and women cutting their baby's arms off, ALL in
the name of God. They were ALL "good" Christians. I don't think I've
ever read one of these horrific child torture/murder stories that read
anything like the following:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular,
as humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers
from Green Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of
New Scientist and Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney
bean coffee table. In the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR
and the local classical music and jazz stations. "They were quite
erudite, and liberal in their views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't
want to bring up the subject of Creationism around them, they were
hard core Darwinists and they'd use reason and logic to have you
accepting evolution before you knew it!"
end/
--
***********************************************
Khartoum aa#2110
EAC Director of Subversive Horticulture
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without
having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
~Douglas Adams
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
13 Feb 2005 07:18:23 AM |
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Khartoum wrote:
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in
news:vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Begin nominated portion
Recently there was a story about John and Linda Dollar who adopted 7
children and tortured and starved 5 of them. They were described by
fellow church members as "very religious". Meanwhile in Texas we've
had women drowning their children, women bashing their children's
heads in with rocks, and women cutting their baby's arms off, ALL in
the name of God. They were ALL "good" Christians. I don't think I've
ever read one of these horrific child torture/murder stories that read
anything like the following:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular,
as humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers
from Green Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of
New Scientist and Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney
bean coffee table. In the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR
and the local classical music and jazz stations. "They were quite
erudite, and liberal in their views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't
want to bring up the subject of Creationism around them, they were
hard core Darwinists and they'd use reason and logic to have you
accepting evolution before you knew it!"
end/
Seconded
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
17 Feb 2005 04:53:16 AM |
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In article <3_CdnUwtFv4_zpLfRVn-iw@comcast.com>,
Tink <kjgrish@comcast.net> wrote:
Khartoum wrote:
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in
news:vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Begin nominated portion
Recently there was a story about John and Linda Dollar who adopted 7
children and tortured and starved 5 of them. They were described by
fellow church members as "very religious". Meanwhile in Texas we've
had women drowning their children, women bashing their children's
heads in with rocks, and women cutting their baby's arms off, ALL in
the name of God. They were ALL "good" Christians. I don't think I've
ever read one of these horrific child torture/murder stories that read
anything like the following:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular,
as humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers
from Green Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of
New Scientist and Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney
bean coffee table. In the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR
and the local classical music and jazz stations. "They were quite
erudite, and liberal in their views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't
want to bring up the subject of Creationism around them, they were
hard core Darwinists and they'd use reason and logic to have you
accepting evolution before you knew it!"
end/
Seconded
Recorded. Extra groups snipped.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 09:34:37 AM |
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Dale wrote:
"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Recently there was a story about John and Linda Dollar who adopted 7
children and tortured and starved 5 of them. They were described by fellow
church members as "very religious". Meanwhile in Texas we've had women
drowning their children, women bashing their children's heads in with rocks,
and women cutting their baby's arms off, ALL in the name of God. They were
ALL "good" Christians. I don't think I've ever read one of these horrific
child torture/murder stories that read anything like the following:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 09:15:35 AM |
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Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dale wrote:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
I'm busy working on a humanutan story, about a cross between a human
and an orangutan which will leave some of the fundies hopping mad.
"Kill it now, before it can breed," they say.
"Our man from clay and woman from a rib bone story is in danger!"
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 09:23:45 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:15:35 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dale wrote:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
I'm busy working on a humanutan story, about a cross between a human
and an orangutan which will leave some of the fundies hopping mad.
That's been done before. An excellent BBC mini-series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096584/
"Kill it now, before it can breed," they say.
"Our man from clay and woman from a rib bone story is in danger!"
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 11:08:58 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dale wrote:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
I'm busy working on a humanutan story, about a cross between a human
and an orangutan which will leave some of the fundies hopping mad.
That's been done before. An excellent BBC mini-series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096584/
Have you actually watched it?
The above link says the story is about a gorilla/human cross, not an
orangutan/human cross.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 11:15:04 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:08:58 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Dale wrote:
Acquaintances said "I don't understand it, they seemed very secular, as
humanistic a family as you could ever meet." Police found mailers from Green
Peace and the Sierra Club in the home, and say copies of New Scientist and
Mother Jones magazines were strewn across the kidney bean coffee table. In
the Dollar's car, the radio presets included NPR and the local classical
music and jazz stations. "They were quite erudite, and liberal in their
views," neighbors said, "You wouldn't want to bring up the subject of
Creationism around them, they were hard core Darwinists and they'd use
reason and logic to have you accepting evolution before you knew it!"
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
I'm busy working on a humanutan story, about a cross between a human
and an orangutan which will leave some of the fundies hopping mad.
That's been done before. An excellent BBC mini-series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096584/
Have you actually watched it?
Many years ago.
The above link says the story is about a gorilla/human cross, not an
orangutan/human cross.
Yes. But it's still a man/non-human-primate cross.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 11:44:21 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote in alt.atheism
There's a kernel of an Elroy story in here. :-0
I'm busy working on a humanutan story, about a cross between a human
and an orangutan which will leave some of the fundies hopping mad.
That's been done before. An excellent BBC mini-series.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096584/
Have you actually watched it?
Many years ago.
The above link says the story is about a gorilla/human cross, not an
orangutan/human cross.
Yes. But it's still a man/non-human-primate cross.
But the orangutans seem to be a bit more slow-moving or methodical
in their movements to me. I thought a human/orang cross might make
for a more peaceful combination for the story. :)
Notice how the Planet of the Apes movies and series seem to depict the
Gorillas as the ones with guns, and the chimps and orangs as the more
peaceful type apes?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 11:14:12 AM |
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In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 01:05:24 PM |
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"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-F9D661.12141212022005@reader2.panix.com...
In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
Could be. Kid was 10 months old. Her mother's attourney says she was guided
by Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast
it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should
perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 09:08:28 PM |
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In article <UrsPd.29374$wi2.24142@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-F9D661.12141212022005@reader2.panix.com...
In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
Could be. Kid was 10 months old. Her mother's attourney says she was guided
by Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast
it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should
perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
You know, the Bible should really not be put in just anybodies hands,
maybe it should be restricted to specialists, who are trained in the use
of metaphor and rhetoric, not to mention 1st century and earlier
Palestinian culture and thought patterns.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
12 Feb 2005 11:56:44 PM |
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Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <UrsPd.29374$wi2.24142@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-F9D661.12141212022005@reader2.panix.com...
In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
Could be. Kid was 10 months old. Her mother's attourney says she was guided
by Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast
it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should
perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
You know, the Bible should really not be put in just anybodies hands,
maybe it should be restricted to specialists, who are trained in the use
of metaphor and rhetoric, not to mention 1st century and earlier
Palestinian culture and thought patterns.
Wasn't that tried at one point? ;-)
--
John S. Wilkins AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Fiat lunch!
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
14 Feb 2005 10:51:16 PM |
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In article <1grxlk0.1vjtjm7xqudc7N%>,
(John Wilkins) wrote:
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <UrsPd.29374$wi2.24142@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-F9D661.12141212022005@reader2.panix.com...
In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
Could be. Kid was 10 months old. Her mother's attourney says she was
guided
by Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and
cast
it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members
should
perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
You know, the Bible should really not be put in just anybodies hands,
maybe it should be restricted to specialists, who are trained in the use
of metaphor and rhetoric, not to mention 1st century and earlier
Palestinian culture and thought patterns.
Wasn't that tried at one point? ;-)
It worked sort of until some stupid priest nailed his feces to the
church door and had to eat a diet of Wurms. More blood shed over that
than the famous battle over the iota.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "Paul J Gans" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
13 Feb 2005 03:32:10 PM |
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In talk.origins John Wilkins <johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <UrsPd.29374$wi2.24142@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
"Walter Bushell" <proto@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-F9D661.12141212022005@reader2.panix.com...
In article <vOfPd.46524$iC4.21236@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote:
<snip>
and women cutting their baby's arms off
<snip>
Let me guess, to keep them from masturbating?
Could be. Kid was 10 months old. Her mother's attourney says she was guided
by Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast
it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should
perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
You know, the Bible should really not be put in just anybodies hands,
maybe it should be restricted to specialists, who are trained in the use
of metaphor and rhetoric, not to mention 1st century and earlier
Palestinian culture and thought patterns.
Wasn't that tried at one point? ;-)
Twice. Once in Catholicism where interpretation was
allowed only to those trained in it and the other in
Judaism where all males who could manage it were to
spend years in studying the Bible and the writings
about the Bible so that they could learn to
interpret it.
But you knew all this.
---- Paul J. Gans
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| User: "Dana Tweedy" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 12:16:41 PM |
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"bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108143563.234557.144990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
I'm an American, and I don't see clinging to creatoinist dogma as "common
sense".
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
The genetic evidence IS the "smoking gun".
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
False. Neither life, or evolution is considered a random process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional.
Even if you claim that science says life is random were true, how does this
make morality optional? I've never understood that argument from
Creationists. Morality does not come from one's ancestory, or from one's
biological roots.
This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Again, even if what you said were correct, ( and it's not ) why would that
invalidate the scienctific evidence?
DJT
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| User: "Marc L." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
13 Feb 2005 06:08:13 PM |
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"Dana Tweedy" <reddfrogg@nospam.net> wrote in
news:dE6Pd.9305$oO.4636@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Even if you claim that science says life is random were true, how
does this make morality optional?
Because if creation did not come about by intelligent design,
then no creator to punish you when you act in an immoral manner.
Marc
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
05 Mar 2005 10:30:15 PM |
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In article <dE6Pd.9305$oO.4636
@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Dana Tweedy said...
Even if you claim that science says life is random were true, how does this
make morality optional? I've never understood that argument from
Creationists.
You're trying too hard. Think in simpler terms. Think fallacious
thoughts. Here's how the argument usually runs:
1) All morality comes from God Almighty.
2) Therefore, anything that takes God out of the picture
removes morality as well.
3) Evolution takes God out of the picture.
4) Therefore, evolution removes morality.
If the logic seems suspect, keep in mind that these same people
have no trouble reconciling the commands of Christ -- e.g.,
eschew wealth and help the poor -- with capitalist greed and an
attack on social service programs. For that matter, the same
people applaud the slaughter of Iraqis and describe George W.
Bush as God's chosen instrument.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 08:14:01 PM |
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:16:41 GMT, "Dana Tweedy" <reddfrogg@nospam.net>
said in alt.atheism:
Even if you claim that science says life is random were true, how does this
make morality optional? I've never understood that argument from
Creationists.
Most creationists would lie, cheat, steal or kill to get their wish -
were it not for their religion. They project this same sociopathy
onto those of us who are sane.
Morality does not come from one's ancestory, or from one's
biological roots.
They think it comes from the magician in the sky.
This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Again, even if what you said were correct, ( and it's not ) why would that
invalidate the scienctific evidence?
What he's saying is, "If I don't like what I think are the results of
evolution, then evolution can't be true". *Most* theists can't tell
the difference between "I believe" and reality.
--
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 01:01:38 PM |
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On 11 Feb 2005 09:39:23 -0800, "bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote:
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense.
I was born and raised here, and you couldn't prove that by my
observations.
After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
I'm assuming there's a point to that......
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Have you actually read any real scientific literature on the subject
published in the last 50 years? There's an entire regiment, nay, an
entire division of smoking guns.
I think the problem most "ordinary" folks have with evolution is that
the theory itself is fairly simple, but it requires a fairly extensive
scientific education to understand much of the evidence supporting it.
Most people in this country, unfortunately, don't have that.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
Nothing random about it. Life is based on chemistry, and chemistry is
most definitely *not* random.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional.
How so? After all is said and done, what is considered moral or
immoral is dependent on the culture one was raised in, and really has
far more to do with self-interest than religious beliefs. Quite
simply, most people understand that it's in their best interests to
play by the rules of whatever society they're a part of, and so they
act accordingly. And if the percentages of religious vs. non-religious
in our prison population is anything to go by, belief in a deity is no
guarantee of moral behavior.
This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
Only if you're the type who can't think in non-religious terms.
Evolutionary theory is something that interests me greatly, but it
doesn't determine how I will behave toward others or what my
philosophy of life (assuming I have one) will be. Whether evolutionary
theory tells me my ancestors were apes or tree frogs makes no
difference in my life. Why should it in yours?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
11 Feb 2005 12:19:24 PM |
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On 11 Feb 2005 09:39:23 -0800, "bldc" <bldc0702@yahoo.com> wrote:
Don't be so hard on America guys. We have always been a nation
with more common sense. After all, look at Europe in the last
century.
The fact is that after 150 years of Darwin and a 40-50 year monopoly
in the school systems, it still isn't obvious. There is no smoking
gun. We have the same stories pretty much known in Darwins
day, but recirculated in genetic terminology.
Harcore darwinism states life from beginning to end is a random
process.
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
This guy is either stupid or lying.
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| User: "Marc L." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
13 Feb 2005 06:10:37 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:hotp0116i4lnablg88a8e72b3npc7p1o5l@4ax.com:
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
This guy is either stupid or lying.
Why do you underestimate him? Maybe both?
Marc
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist: Creationists still fighting evolution |
13 Feb 2005 07:34:16 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:10:37 GMT, "Marc L." <master.cougar@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:hotp0116i4lnablg88a8e72b3npc7p1o5l@4ax.com:
This impacts world views. Morality becomes optional. This is a vary
impacting belief. Has ramifications beyond science.
This guy is either stupid or lying.
Why do you underestimate him? Maybe both?
If I'm feeling charitable about his IQ then he's lying. If I'm feeling
charitable about his honesty then he's stupid.
Marc
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