| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
22 Dec 2003 02:46:20 PM |
| Object: |
Columnist: Scientific Ignorance Dooms Democracy |
From the article:
---------------------------
Most of those who live in the West, particularly North Americans, are
guilty of an anti-intellectual bias. Scientists are supposed to be
nerds, right? And who wants to be a nerd? This sentiment, combined
with a general suspicion of science and the predominance of aggressive
theological and pseudoscientific memes, has resulted in much of the
scientific illiteracy that now pervades our society.
It doesn't help that the educational system is in shambles and without
focus, and that fatuous postmodernism and its insistence that nothing
can truly be known now dominates many disciplines at most
universities. Consequently, too many people wear their ignorance like
a badge of honor, as if being clueless about science is something to
be proud of.
----------------------------
Read it at http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2003-12-22-2
or
http://tinyurl.com/yps55
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Arne Vogel" |
|
| Title: Re: Columnist: Scientific Ignorance Dooms Democracy |
23 Dec 2003 06:26:57 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
---------------------------
Most of those who live in the West, particularly North Americans, are
guilty of an anti-intellectual bias. Scientists are supposed to be
nerds, right? And who wants to be a nerd? This sentiment, combined
with a general suspicion of science and the predominance of aggressive
theological and pseudoscientific memes, has resulted in much of the
scientific illiteracy that now pervades our society.
It doesn't help that the educational system is in shambles and without
focus, and that fatuous postmodernism and its insistence that nothing
can truly be known now dominates many disciplines at most
universities. Consequently, too many people wear their ignorance like
a badge of honor, as if being clueless about science is something to
be proud of.
----------------------------
Read it at http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2003-12-22-2
or
http://tinyurl.com/yps55
J. Spaceman
Nothing against this article. but isn't betterhumans.com home to nutty
"transhumanists"? (The site name alone is an affront to decency. Better
humans. Better than who? Better on which scale?)
Transhumanism effectively means getting beyond human nature (if this
sounds a little bit like old-fashioned religions, that's not my fault!).
To sum it up, to many of them, it seems, science is a religion (though -
of course! - they wouldn't admit): a panacea and the road to salvation,
even to eternal life!
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Reports/report.aspx?articleID=2003-10-13-3
We are to use technologies like human cloning, "cryoconservation" (aka
deep freeze for human heads), genetic engineering of humans to turn
ourselves into a race of immortal, blonde, blue-eyed, err, sorry, I
meant immortal, über-rational and generally incredibly superior race of,
of, well, perhaps something remotely similar to the disgustingly
irrational, stupid, emotional and short-lived humans of today.
But that's not all! Some of them even think it's possible to transfer a
human mind into a computer and thus make the person both extremely
clever and, especially, immortal. The consciousness *itself* is
transferred to the machine! (which, ooooops! is unfortunately not a very
scientific concept since it is pretty much utterly unfalsifiable: how
could we tell a conscious AI from one that just *behaves* as if it had
consciousness? Where does consciousness enter into the equations with
which we describe the natural world?)
Baptist Transhumanist
Immortal... Soul Rational mind
is saved by... Faith Technology
Evil is caused by Sin Irrationality
To think that I was once one of those deluded souls with no respect for
anything but reason... *shudder* But then, we all have different
preferences. Hey, Kevin Aylward! Here's a club for you to join!
More on this misguided utopistic ideology at
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
EOR* and merry XMAS!
*) End of Rant
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| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
|
| Title: Re: Columnist: Scientific Ignorance Dooms Democracy |
23 Dec 2003 09:06:16 PM |
|
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Arne Vogel <arne@123soft.de> wrote in message
news:bsamh3$1hk$04$1@news.t-online.com...
[...]
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.aspx?articleID=2003-12-22-2
or
http://tinyurl.com/yps55
Nothing against this article. but isn't betterhumans.com home to nutty
"transhumanists"? (The site name alone is an affront to decency. Better
humans. Better than who? Better on which scale?)
Transhumanism effectively means getting beyond human nature (if this
sounds a little bit like old-fashioned religions, that's not my fault!).
To sum it up, to many of them, it seems, science is a religion (though -
of course! - they wouldn't admit): a panacea and the road to salvation,
even to eternal life!
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Reports/report.aspx?articleID=2003-10-13-3
We are to use technologies like human cloning, "cryoconservation" (aka
deep freeze for human heads), genetic engineering of humans to turn
ourselves into a race of immortal, blonde, blue-eyed, err, sorry, I
meant immortal, über-rational and generally incredibly superior race of,
of, well, perhaps something remotely similar to the disgustingly
irrational, stupid, emotional and short-lived humans of today.
But that's not all! Some of them even think it's possible to transfer a
human mind into a computer and thus make the person both extremely
clever and, especially, immortal. The consciousness *itself* is
transferred to the machine! (which, ooooops! is unfortunately not a very
scientific concept since it is pretty much utterly unfalsifiable: how
could we tell a conscious AI from one that just *behaves* as if it had
consciousness? Where does consciousness enter into the equations with
which we describe the natural world?)
Baptist Transhumanist
Immortal... Soul Rational mind
is saved by... Faith Technology
Evil is caused by Sin Irrationality
To think that I was once one of those deluded souls with no respect for
anything but reason... *shudder* But then, we all have different
preferences. Hey, Kevin Aylward! Here's a club for you to join!
More on this misguided utopistic ideology at
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
EOR* and merry XMAS!
*) End of Rant
While I share your skepticism about transhumanists, I must say this is one
of the best articles on the importance of science education that I've seen
in some time. And I do think the idea of transhumanism, per se, isn't a bad
one; it's just that its time is still way, way off. Assuming we continue at
our present rate of technological development, I'd say we're probably not
going to be able to do any of the things they envision for at least five
hundred or a thousand years. (Although I suppose some simple things, like
genetic modification of human beings to eliminate hereditary diseases, are
probably going to be possible in the near future.)
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Columnist: Scientific Ignorance Dooms Democracy |
25 Dec 2003 06:06:03 AM |
|
|
Adam Marczyk <ebonmuse@deletethis.hotmail.com> wrote:
Arne Vogel <arne@123soft.de> wrote in message
news:bsamh3$1hk$04$1@news.t-online.com...
[...]
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Transitory_Human/column.asp
x?articleID=2003-12-22-2
or
http://tinyurl.com/yps55
Nothing against this article. but isn't betterhumans.com home to nutty
"transhumanists"? (The site name alone is an affront to decency. Better
humans. Better than who? Better on which scale?)
Transhumanism effectively means getting beyond human nature (if this
sounds a little bit like old-fashioned religions, that's not my fault!).
To sum it up, to many of them, it seems, science is a religion (though -
of course! - they wouldn't admit): a panacea and the road to salvation,
even to eternal life!
http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Reports/report.aspx?articleID=2003-
10-13-3
We are to use technologies like human cloning, "cryoconservation" (aka
deep freeze for human heads), genetic engineering of humans to turn
ourselves into a race of immortal, blonde, blue-eyed, err, sorry, I
meant immortal, über-rational and generally incredibly superior race of,
of, well, perhaps something remotely similar to the disgustingly
irrational, stupid, emotional and short-lived humans of today.
But that's not all! Some of them even think it's possible to transfer a
human mind into a computer and thus make the person both extremely
clever and, especially, immortal. The consciousness *itself* is
transferred to the machine! (which, ooooops! is unfortunately not a very
scientific concept since it is pretty much utterly unfalsifiable: how
could we tell a conscious AI from one that just *behaves* as if it had
consciousness? Where does consciousness enter into the equations with
which we describe the natural world?)
Baptist Transhumanist
Immortal... Soul Rational mind
is saved by... Faith Technology
Evil is caused by Sin Irrationality
To think that I was once one of those deluded souls with no respect for
anything but reason... *shudder* But then, we all have different
preferences. Hey, Kevin Aylward! Here's a club for you to join!
More on this misguided utopistic ideology at
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
EOR* and merry XMAS!
*) End of Rant
While I share your skepticism about transhumanists, I must say this is one
of the best articles on the importance of science education that I've seen
in some time. And I do think the idea of transhumanism, per se, isn't a bad
one; it's just that its time is still way, way off. Assuming we continue at
our present rate of technological development, I'd say we're probably not
going to be able to do any of the things they envision for at least five
hundred or a thousand years. (Although I suppose some simple things, like
genetic modification of human beings to eliminate hereditary diseases, are
probably going to be possible in the near future.)
While I haven't read the links above (limited access until I get home),
I have just finished Neal Stevenson's _Quicksilver_ [parenthetical
comment, wow, like dude!] and I am struck by the similarity of the
utopian dreams of the universal language project of Wilkins and Leibniz
and Descartes, and what Stevenson refers to as "pansophism" (what we now
would call rationalism) and the dreams of modern utopians. But what
struck me most when reading that marvellous book was that much of the
utopian ideals have, in fact, been realised now. And no utopia yet.
Induction leads one to doubt if it will be found in five hundred years,
either.
--
John Wilkins
"And this is a damnable doctrine" - Charles Darwin, Autobiography
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