| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2003 06:58:26 PM |
| Object: |
Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to critics of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists. They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Jeff Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
16 Aug 2003 07:56:38 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com...
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to critics of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists. They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
My response to this current bit of fluff from Coren:
Dear Mr. Coren,
I read with much amusement your column of August 16, 2003 entitled "He's a
changed man". I must admit that I share your opinion of the silliness of
Pagan beliefs as practiced by Wiccans, Satanists and their ilk. However, do
you honestly miss the irony that someone who believes in virgin births,
speaking donkeys, burning but not consumed bushes, water turned to wine,
etc., feels justified in poking fun at the ridiculous beliefs of other
groups? Believing in silly, superstitious myths is no more rational because
many people share your ridiculous beliefs than believing in superstition
that is believed by only a few. You are, in fact, no different than the
very people you so arrogantly ridicule.
By the way, please explain why the title "Holy Father, Supreme Pontiff,
Vicar of Christ" is any less pointless and harebrained than "High Priestess,
Sacred Moon Circle Coven. Founder and Chair Southeastern Michigan Pagan
Alliance. Co-Leader, Global Goddess Region 10"?
Jeff Jones, Austin, Texas
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| User: "Jenny6833A" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
16 Aug 2003 08:11:50 PM |
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Coren is a "good" columnist -- "good" in the sense that he has defined his
audience and is writing to it.
He's telling them what they want to hear.
That's how he makes a living.
What he actually thinks may vary widely from what he writes.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
17 Aug 2003 12:44:19 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:56:38 GMT, "Jeff Jones"
<jeffj@NOSPAMaustin.rr.com> wrote:
"Jason Spaceman" <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com...
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to critics of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists. They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
My response to this current bit of fluff from Coren:
Dear Mr. Coren,
I read with much amusement your column of August 16, 2003 entitled "He's a
changed man". I must admit that I share your opinion of the silliness of
Pagan beliefs as practiced by Wiccans, Satanists and their ilk. However, do
you honestly miss the irony that someone who believes in virgin births,
speaking donkeys, burning but not consumed bushes, water turned to wine,
etc., feels justified in poking fun at the ridiculous beliefs of other
groups? Believing in silly, superstitious myths is no more rational because
many people share your ridiculous beliefs than believing in superstition
that is believed by only a few. You are, in fact, no different than the
very people you so arrogantly ridicule.
By the way, please explain why the title "Holy Father, Supreme Pontiff,
Vicar of Christ" is any less pointless and harebrained than "High Priestess,
Sacred Moon Circle Coven. Founder and Chair Southeastern Michigan Pagan
Alliance. Co-Leader, Global Goddess Region 10"?
Jeff Jones, Austin, Texas
Very good :)
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "R. Gregg Reed" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
17 Aug 2003 04:17:57 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com:
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to critics
of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the
Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists. They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
J. Spaceman
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
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| User: "Harry Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
18 Aug 2003 10:53:08 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 1:12:11 -0500, R. Gregg Reed wrote
(in message <Xns93DB164D0B7B3xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcom@209.198.2.164>):
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in
news:jva0kvs2a9rr2rdp5c36a33ossheu8030i@Pern.rk:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:17:57 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> posted in alt.atheism:
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
That's true of all theists. You think Christianity is more than a
game?
Yes. I don't think Christianity is true by any means. It's just as
much a fallacy as any other religion. However, in the US at least,
Christianity is, for the most part, well established and accepted.
You speak as though "Christianity" were a monolithic block, all of its
followers following exactly the same dogma, nothing could be farther from the
truth.
People are Christians because everyone around them is Christian.
No, most are Christians because their parents are.
For a person to become a pagan, he would have to reject the
ubiquitous idea of the one Christian god, and accept the relatively
unpopular idea that there are many gods.
Or other gods.
Why would someone do this?
Why wouldn't some do that? After all, "Christians" come in all types and
heresies.
Do they
have proof that Paganism is the One True Religion? Of course not. So
I see only two more choices. Either they're not serious, and are just
playing a game, or they're extraordinarily stupid.
Just like all theists?
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
"The space time you are trying to reach has been disconnected..." Stony
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
17 Aug 2003 07:00:39 AM |
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:17:57 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com:
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to critics
of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the
Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists. They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
J. Spaceman
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
How long have you had the ability to read minds?
Thomas P.
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| User: "R. Gregg Reed" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
17 Aug 2003 02:18:31 PM |
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Thomas P. <tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote in
news:r3rujv07t0pm553al0n0ni2girk7vucljl@4ax.com:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:17:57 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com:
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to
critics
of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the
Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists.
They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
J. Spaceman
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
How long have you had the ability to read minds?
Thomas P.
You're absolutely right. My apologies. What I should have said is
that they're either playing a game or they're extraordinarily stupid.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
17 Aug 2003 03:52:02 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:18:31 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> wrote:
Thomas P. <tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote in
news:r3rujv07t0pm553al0n0ni2girk7vucljl@4ax.com:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:17:57 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman <IEatSpammersForBreakfast@rogers.com> wrote in
news:4rgtjv0up0g97jqbbe3t940vv4qvh4hst7@4ax.com:
Toronto Sun columnist Michael Coren is back, responding to
critics
of
his column concerning wiccan prison chaplains from two weeks ago.
Yes, this is the same Michael Coren who, last week, claimed the
Nazis
were atheists.
This time Coren claims:
"Judging by my experience of the past week, pagans are not really
pagans, any more than most satanists are really satanists.
They're
just silly."
Read the rest at http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html
Someone wrote a letter to the editor concerning Coren's original
column from two weeks ago ---->
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters
J. Spaceman
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
How long have you had the ability to read minds?
Thomas P.
You're absolutely right. My apologies. What I should have said is
that they're either playing a game or they're extraordinarily stupid.
You, of course, know all the beliefs and religious practices of all
the pagans and Satanists and have found them to be stupid. Are they
more stupid than Christian beliefs and practices? Could you give
examples?
Thomas P.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
18 Aug 2003 02:27:47 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 05:58:15 +0000 (UTC), "R. Gregg Reed"
<reedg@cetlink.net> wrote:
snip
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
How long have you had the ability to read minds?
Thomas P.
You're absolutely right. My apologies. What I should have said is
that they're either playing a game or they're extraordinarily
stupid.
You, of course, know all the beliefs and religious practices of all
the pagans and Satanists and have found them to be stupid. Are
they
more stupid than Christian beliefs and practices? Could you give
examples?
Thomas P.
All three are based on the fallacy that there are supernatural beings
that should be worshipped. So in that respect they are all three
equally stupid.
However, in the US at least, Christianity is, for the most part, well
established and accepted. People are Christians because everyone
around them is Christian.
So people who actually and independently choose their religion are
sillier than those who belong to one because "everyone else" belongs
to it?
For a person to become a pagan, he would
have to reject the ubiquitous idea of the one Christian god, and
accept the relatively unpopular idea that there are many gods. Why
would someone do this?
For the same reason/reasons the first gentile Christians accepted
Christianity.
Do they have proof that Paganism is the One
True Religion? Of course not. So I see only two more choices. Either
they're not serious, and are just playing a game, or they're
extraordinarily stupid.
I have no idea if they believe their religion is the "one true
religion", but I imagine they have as much evidence as the Christians
do. There are quite a few more choices than just two.
Satanism is similar to Paganism, with the added stupidity of choosing
a religion that's almost universally despised.
It appears that you are assuming a lot of things about all pagans and
all Satanists. To the degree that any of them are actually theists
with a specific system of dogma, they have just as much evidence
behind them as the Christians do. There are, however, quite a few of
them who do not actually believe in a literal god, gods or devils and
have widely different definitions for those terms and many different
reasons for their choices.
Thomas P.
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| User: "Harry Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: Columnist calls kettle black (again) |
18 Aug 2003 10:46:22 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 0:58:15 -0500, R. Gregg Reed wrote
(in message <Xns93DB13F058488xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcom@209.198.2.164>):
Snip
I agree with Mr. Coren's article. Pagans and satanists are silly.
They're not practicing a religion, they're just playing a game.
How long have you had the ability to read minds?
Thomas P.
You're absolutely right. My apologies. What I should have said is
that they're either playing a game or they're extraordinarily
stupid.
You, of course, know all the beliefs and religious practices of all
the pagans and Satanists and have found them to be stupid. Are
they more stupid than Christian beliefs and practices?
Could you give examples?
Thomas P.
All three are based on the fallacy that there are supernatural beings
that should be worshipped. So in that respect they are all three
equally stupid.
However, in the US at least, Christianity is, for the most part, well
established and accepted. People are Christians because everyone
around them is Christian. For a person to become a pagan, he would
have to reject the ubiquitous idea of the one Christian god, and
accept the relatively unpopular idea that there are many gods. Why
would someone do this? Do they have proof that Paganism is the One
True Religion? Of course not. So I see only two more choices. Either
they're not serious, and are just playing a game, or they're
extraordinarily stupid.
I see you missed another possibility, that you are fucking nuts, which I
think pretty much explains your silliness quite well.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
"I think that's a reason why so many of the Christian posters fail to respond
to questions or comments in their own threads. They're dropping God bombs,
and they can't chance being hit by the shrapnel." - Marvin
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