| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
25 Nov 2007 12:19:16 AM |
| Object: |
Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.6143112nov24,0,7894329.story
or http://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 06:43:33 AM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> skrev i en meddelelse
news:fib456$jil$1@news.datemas.de...
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
If the theist is honest he will stop pretending he can read minds.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our
dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
Someone is an idiot. The blazing evidence that I have billions of dollars
is my dissatisfaction with not having it. Silly isn't it?
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
Lovely example of assuming one's conclusion.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the
product
of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled
cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have
an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Another version of the refuted "Watchmaker" argument.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist.
There is no such law.
The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
What miracle? Oh, you mean anything that you cannot explain must be a
miracle.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The theist admits that he has no sense of right and wrong, that he must be
told what to do and be threatened with punishment if he doesn't. He also,
apparently with no sense of shame at all, accuses an entire group of people
of being immoral with no evidence to support his vicious attack.
All in all the above is yet another demonstration of the absolute lack of
logic or honesty found in so much of theism.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 03:11:21 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:fib456$jil$1@news.datemas.de...
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning.
Who says not? You, a person who believes to the point of absurdity in
something not a single human being who has ever taken a breath of life on
planet earth has ever proven *actually* exists outside man's imagination?
You, who look upon atheists with disdain and revulsion for not embracing a
'faith' that spews out completely unsubstantiated claims as though they are
based on 'fact'? You, who believes in a 'God' that is not satisfied with a
person who is every bit as 'good', morally speaking, as any 'Christian' but
who will actually condemn this 'morally good' person to an *eternity* of
unbelieveably pitiless, merciless suffering on a level which the human mind
cannot even *begin* to comprehend? And why? Because this 'God' of yours
failed to provide the atheist with conclusive proof of his 'real' existence?
What kind of 'God' is *that*? A loving, merciful 'God' whose goodness and
ability to forgive is all but boundless? Or a sadistic, mean-spirited,
egomaniacal creature who's craving for worship and adoration is *impossible*
to satiate in mere 24-hour days and 365-day years?
If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Even if true, does that mean we are left to conclude that a deity took on
human form, preach largely a re-hashing of what other human beings have
stated and had recorded, *pretend* to die as a result of a 1st-century Roman
crucifixion, and then return to sit on a throne in an uncertain area of the
cosmos (right next to that of his father-deity (who is himself)) which he
temporarily vacated in order to play-act for a small mob of 1st-century Jews
and Roman soldiers and which, unfortunately, left no written account of his
'stage debut' for posterity?
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our
dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
According to my Telephone Directory, you should dial 911 if there is an
emergency. This is much more 'meaningful' than the above.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the
product
of intelligent design.
No, more like the man (or woman) who's been told that the universe was, in
*fact*, created by a supernatural being who didn't even have a 'beginning',
can't explain where this supernatural creature got his supernatural powers
or supernatural intelligence from, which consciously and with pre-meditation
'Intelligently Designed' evil, 'sin', and the most evil entity in all of
existence ['Satan'] by people who can't prove a *single* word of it is true.
Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled
cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have
an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
What a *load*! If there were conclusive proof that a 'God' exists, there
would be no more 'debate' about 'His' existence than there is over whether
or not the 'sun' exists. The only atheists left on planet earth would be
horribly mentally-ill. *That*, you can be assured is not the case. In fact,
one has to wonder about people spending waaay too much of their time trying
to convince people that something they cannot even *begin* to prove true
actually is true. I say for the umpteenth time: Not a single human being who
has ever taken a breath of life on planet earth -- including the most
brilliant of our noble, 'Christian' scientists -- has ever managed to prove
the actual existence of deity -- *any* deity! Says it all, does it not?
And you call this 'bias against God'? Puhleeeeze!
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist.
You mean like that 'cause' that caused this 'God' of yours to exist? Like
where it says in Colossians 1:15 that Jesus was the 'firstborn of all
creation' -- meaning that his dad, 'God' 'caused him to come into being,
into existence?
The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
Hmmm. A Christian 'sky-diving' enthusiast jumps out of an airplane only to
find to his utter horror that both his 'chutes' fail to open. He hits the
ground but, MIRACULOUSLY, is able to pick himself off the ground and *walk*
to an awaiting ambulance sustaintaing nothing more than a bruised 'butt'. He
looks up to the cloud-filled sky, raises his arms in thanks to what he
believes is a 'God' who made sure his life was spared. He's on his way to
the hospital in that ambulance (just for a 'make sure' check-up) when the
vehicle stalls out on some railroad tracks where the 'warning gear' failed
to indicate that a fast-moving passenger train was barrelling in on the
unfortunate passengers. I need not go on, other than to say our Christian
sky-diving enthusiast was mangled and ripped apart beyond recognition. Hey!
What a *miracle*, eh'?
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality.
You wish you arrogant, condescending hosers! We atheists are every bit as
moral as the Christian. But there *is* one big difference. *Our* morality
comes from the heart -- as it does in the case of an ocean of noble-minded
Christian of grand heart and character, *not* as a result of trying to score
'points' with a deity and hope of a wondrous existence in a 'here after'
(and who *don't* take the bible quite so damn literally as others who paint
themselves into all sorts of inescapable 'corners' all too often do).
He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another.
Hey, I'm heading into my third week of non-delivery of food due to so-called
'Christians' wanting me to suffer and who are doing everything in their
power (short of being arrested for it!) to make my existence as unbearable
as they can possibly make it. Where is the 'Christian' in treating another
individual so inhumanely? Point to another instance here in these United
States that atheists are treating a Christian in even a *remotely*
comparable way? Go on, name just *one* instance of an atheist treating a
Christian in a manner similar to the way I am being treated by 'Christians'
out here on the outskirts of the town of Wausaukee, County of Marinette,
Wisconsin. Go right ahead.
Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
What a 'crock' this 'piece' is. Again, an example of Christians *trying* to
maintain a sense of moral superiority based on *their* belief in a 'God'. A
'God' who's utterly incapable of revealing 'himself' to all of mankind in an
inescabably conclusive way. A 'God' who 'scripture' reports used 'miracles'
like those found in Matt. 27:50-53, or Jesus' 'face-to-face' with 'Doubting
Thomas', or even Saul of Tarsus' 'Road to Damascus' experience to convince
*those* individuals who came to be 'believers' he exists. Hey, if they
needed to be provided with inescabable, conclusive, 'in-your-face' proof a
'God' really exists, why not we moderns?
And the 'good', moral atheist is doomed to an *eternity* of hellish
suffering because 'God' failed to conclusively prove his purported existence
to an atheist whose 'God-given' brain told him it was all a load of
mankind-fabricated 'crap'? A 'God' whose 'fix' of worship, adoration and
downright 'groveling' is insatiable?
No thanks. I'll stick to trying to be the best 'moral' atheist I can be. At
least I will not have been 'suckered' into believing the preposterous and
the absurd. Science is what is pointing us to the truth about our universe
and the role man is playing in it. Not some mumbo-jumbo, speakin' in fluent
'tongues' gibberish based on 'Holy Books' composed by imperfect, fallible
men and women.
Greywolf
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.6143112nov24,0,7894329.story
or http://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 11:51:44 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:fib456$jil$1@news.datemas.de:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love,
pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato.
Leave it to a religious ***** to miss the fact that THIS is the
important stuff. Without these things--friends, lovers, music...without
thease life isn't worth living.
But to be consistent with his
atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning.
"Ultimate meaning"? There's no such thing.
If the atheist is
honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to
existence, something bigger.
....spoken like someone with no knowledge of atheism, other than what a
preacher told him.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for
immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution.''
Someone was wrong.
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must
suppress the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
....and the obligatory bible quote. Nope, no religious bias, no preconceived
notions here.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
Logic? We're not fucking Vulcans or computers.
He is like the man
who finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is
the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests
intelligent cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be
forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of
DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information
in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His bias against God
will not allow him to accept this.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Horseshit.
Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins
to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began
to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist, all
there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a colossal
violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to
believe in miracles without God.
There's no such thing as a miracle.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there
is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love
better than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral
superiority.
Man, what a pile of crap. I wonder how much nitrogen a christer has to
carry in his head to fill himself up with this much *****.
Not surprised at all. It's the same old crap as always, and it just brings
home the point I've made before:
They got nothing.
If they put this imaginary made-up horseshit ahead of the things that
matter, it's no wonder they're so fucked up.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.
--Edward R. Murrow
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| User: "Tokay Pino Gris" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 11:34:57 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
Well, THAT last sentence is true. BUT rather leads theism ad absurdum.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
Oh please. *****.
He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design.
Oh no! Not irreducible complexity again? Either that, or "It looks
designed". *****.
Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Yes, it's the same ***** again. Been there, shredded it to pieces....
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Miracles? Nope. Don't have to believe in them. Haven't seen any.
Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
Go to school. Learn.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality.
Wrong... I know theists cling to this, but it is proven wrong.
He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another.
No. That much is true. And in so doing I also strip YOU of moral
superiority.
Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
Moraliy? Nope. They are quite different. You should probably read up on
current events....
Tokay
--
"I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it."
Ashleigh Brilliant
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| User: "9fingers" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
26 Nov 2007 04:18:39 PM |
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On Nov 26, 12:34 am, Tokay Pino Gris <tokay.gris.b...@gmx.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
Well, THAT last sentence is true. BUT rather leads theism ad absurdum.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
Oh please. *****.
He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design.
Oh no! Not irreducible complexity again? Either that, or "It looks
designed". *****.
Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Yes, it's the same ***** again. Been there, shredded it to pieces....
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Miracles? Nope. Don't have to believe in them. Haven't seen any.
Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
Go to school. Learn.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality.
Wrong... I know theists cling to this, but it is proven wrong.
He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another.
No. That much is true. And in so doing I also strip YOU of moral
superiority.
Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
Moraliy? Nope. They are quite different. You should probably read up on
current events....
Tokay
--
"I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it."
Ashleigh Brilliant
Funny that he calls " friendship and love, pleasure and sorrow, Mozart
and Plato" the smaller meanings of life. I think those are the
important things. Believing in fairy tales is a smaller meaning of
life than anything else.
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
27 Nov 2007 02:40:16 AM |
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On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:18:39 -0800 (PST), 9fingers
<gd9fingers@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 26, 12:34 am, Tokay Pino Gris <tokay.gris.b...@gmx.net> wrote:
Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
Well, THAT last sentence is true. BUT rather leads theism ad absurdum.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
Oh please. *****.
He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design.
Oh no! Not irreducible complexity again? Either that, or "It looks
designed". *****.
Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Yes, it's the same ***** again. Been there, shredded it to pieces....
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Miracles? Nope. Don't have to believe in them. Haven't seen any.
Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
Go to school. Learn.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality.
Wrong... I know theists cling to this, but it is proven wrong.
He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another.
No. That much is true. And in so doing I also strip YOU of moral
superiority.
Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
Moraliy? Nope. They are quite different. You should probably read up on
current events....
Tokay
--
"I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it."
Ashleigh Brilliant
Funny that he calls " friendship and love, pleasure and sorrow, Mozart
and Plato" the smaller meanings of life. I think those are the
important things. Believing in fairy tales is a smaller meaning of
life than anything else.
Although I think football is a boring game I am happy when it
dominates the news as it means there is nothing bad happening.
Leastways not in those parts of the world that 'exists' to the
media.
What could be more important than a happy life with peace
and prosperity for all? There is something greater than the
individual and that is the task of building that better world.
We won't achieve that as long as divisive religion stands in the
way with its 'running dogs' of racism and intolerance.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 01:23:09 AM |
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On Nov 24, 10:19 pm, Jason Spaceman
<notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it athttp://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.6143...
orhttp://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
1. Oddly enough, we care more about whether our beliefs are true than
whether they're comforting. Weird, I know.
2. Just because things are complex does not mean that they require
a.supernatural designer and the argument from design leads to infinite
regress. The argument from design is a shitty, shitty argument. Look
up all of the mistakes it makes here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_design
- because, frankly, I'm tired of killing it over and over again. And
then, please, stop @*$*ing using it.
3. Well, the universe clearly exists now. What created it? What
existed before the big bang? I have no idea. There's nothing
contradictory about saying that, moron. What is full of ***** is to
simply pull something out of your *****, like, "God done it!" for
example.
4. No. I base my morality on logic, and some specific rules I've made
central to my morality that promote things like freedom, altruism,
logic, etc. So, despite what that ***** essay says, I have
absolutely no problem saying peace is better than war. See? I undid
the argument just by saying it. But you wanna know what's really
stupid? Basing your morality on a code of conduct written by a bunch
of war mongering, drug addled desert nomads from 3000 years ago.
.
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| User: "Sanitys Little Helper" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 04:51:25 AM |
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wrote in
news:0cccaa45-5d29-4f8f-b183-87435f9c86fc@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com
to alt.atheism:
On Nov 24, 10:19 pm, Jason Spaceman
<notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love,
pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his
atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is
honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to
existence, something bigger. Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for
immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must
suppress the feeling that there is more to life than what is
temporal.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man
who finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is
the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests
intelligent cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be
forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of
DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information
in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His bias against God
will not allow him to accept this.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins
to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe
began to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist,
all there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a
colossal violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard
to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able
to declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such
admissions require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without
this, there is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than
war or love better than hate. These are simply alternative choices
without moral superiority.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it
athttp://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.614
3... orhttp://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
1. Oddly enough, we care more about whether our beliefs are true than
whether they're comforting. Weird, I know.
2. Just because things are complex does not mean that they require
a.supernatural designer and the argument from design leads to infinite
regress. The argument from design is a shitty, shitty argument. Look
up all of the mistakes it makes here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_design - because, frankly,
I'm tired of killing it over and over again. And then, please, stop
@*$*ing using it.
Don't shoot the messenger. Jason posts this material so as to inform us
how the other side is defending its position. As to being tired of
killing it over and over again, me too. Unfortunately, their arguments
are too stupid to realise that they are dead. You can go on refuting
them until you're blue in the face, they just ignore what contradicts
their POV, or resort to ad hominem attacks.
3. Well, the universe clearly exists now. What created it? What
existed before the big bang? I have no idea. There's nothing
contradictory about saying that, moron. What is full of ***** is to
simply pull something out of your *****, like, "God done it!" for
example.
For all we know, a supernaturally giant gerbil ate the old universe,
then farted ;-) or maybe there's a scientific explanation like it was
obeying laws of physics we haven't yet been able to figure out.
4. No. I base my morality on logic, and some specific rules I've made
central to my morality that promote things like freedom, altruism,
logic, etc. So, despite what that ***** essay says, I have
absolutely no problem saying peace is better than war. See? I undid
the argument just by saying it. But you wanna know what's really
stupid? Basing your morality on a code of conduct written by a bunch
of war mongering, drug addled desert nomads from 3000 years ago.
Don't you just wonder about the moral integrity of people who say they need
to be told right from wrong by some imaginary uber-parent with a penchant
for genocide?
--
David Silverman C.B.E.
aa #2208
Lord Mayor of Awphucket
And now, today's sponsor message:
For the beluga caviar of stupidity, it's got to be...
Brian Carey.
Available in a newsgroup near you.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 03:46:47 PM |
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On Nov 25, 2:51 am, "Sanity's Little Helper" <elv...@noshpam.org>
wrote:
yeahch...@gmail.com wrote innews:0cccaa45-5d29-4f8f-b183-87435f9c86fc@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com
to alt.atheism:
On Nov 24, 10:19 pm, Jason Spaceman
<notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love,
pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his
atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is
honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to
existence, something bigger. Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for
immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must
suppress the feeling that there is more to life than what is
temporal.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man
who finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is
the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests
intelligent cause. But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be
forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of
DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information
in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His bias against God
will not allow him to accept this.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God.
Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins
to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe
began to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist,
all there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a
colossal violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It's hard
to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality. He is not able
to declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such
admissions require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without
this, there is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than
war or love better than hate. These are simply alternative choices
without moral superiority.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it
athttp://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.614
3... orhttp://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
1. Oddly enough, we care more about whether our beliefs are true than
whether they're comforting. Weird, I know.
2. Just because things are complex does not mean that they require
a.supernatural designer and the argument from design leads to infinite
regress. The argument from design is a shitty, shitty argument. Look
up all of the mistakes it makes here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_design- because, frankly,
I'm tired of killing it over and over again. And then, please, stop
@*$*ing using it.
Don't shoot the messenger. Jason posts this material so as to inform us
how the other side is defending its position. As to being tired of
killing it over and over again, me too. Unfortunately, their arguments
are too stupid to realise that they are dead. You can go on refuting
them until you're blue in the face, they just ignore what contradicts
their POV, or resort to ad hominem attacks.
3. Well, the universe clearly exists now. What created it? What
existed before the big bang? I have no idea. There's nothing
contradictory about saying that, moron. What is full of ***** is to
simply pull something out of your *****, like, "God done it!" for
example.
For all we know, a supernaturally giant gerbil ate the old universe,
then farted ;-) or maybe there's a scientific explanation like it was
obeying laws of physics we haven't yet been able to figure out.
4. No. I base my morality on logic, and some specific rules I've made
central to my morality that promote things like freedom, altruism,
logic, etc. So, despite what that ***** essay says, I have
absolutely no problem saying peace is better than war. See? I undid
the argument just by saying it. But you wanna know what's really
stupid? Basing your morality on a code of conduct written by a bunch
of war mongering, drug addled desert nomads from 3000 years ago.
Don't you just wonder about the moral integrity of people who say they need
to be told right from wrong by some imaginary uber-parent with a penchant
for genocide?
--
David Silverman C.B.E.
aa #2208
Lord Mayor of Awphucket
And now, today's sponsor message:
For the beluga caviar of stupidity, it's got to be...
Brian Carey.
Available in a newsgroup near you.
Oh, whoops! Sorry dude.
I just assumed that only theists would be dragging the old mothball
arguments out again. Jeebus knows we're all tired of hearing this
tripe.
.
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| User: "phillip brown" |
|
| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 07:45:25 PM |
|
|
On Nov 25, 5:19 pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
He's right. After a lot of searching in my heart, I have finally
concluded that, ultimately, the 'Hokey Pokey' *IS* what it's all
about.
Read it athttp://www.mcall.com/features/religion/all-faith-cornellaetheist.6143...
orhttp://tinyurl.com/2aambe
J. Spaceman
phillip brown.
.
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
|
| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
26 Nov 2007 03:14:32 AM |
|
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On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:45:25 -0800 (PST), phillip brown
<pjbrown@people.net.au> wrote:
On Nov 25, 5:19 pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning. If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
He's right. After a lot of searching in my heart, I have finally
concluded that, ultimately, the 'Hokey Pokey' *IS* what it's all
about.
"You put your left leg in
Your left leg out
In, out, in, out,
shake it all about.
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about..."
"Woah, hokey cokey cokey,
Woah, hokey cokey cokey,
Woah, hokey cokey cokey,
Knees bent, arms stretched, ra ra ra! "
Best answer yet! :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
|
| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 09:43:57 AM |
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|
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:19:16 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose.
Does he?
Yes,
atheists enjoy smaller meanings of life like friendship and love, pleasure
and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he
cannot allow for ultimate meaning.
I am sorry you think your life is without meaning and trivial and
am gratified you have come to us for help.
It really is no good moaning about it to us. You are one who
has allowed yourself into the grip of religion and only you can
free yourself from it.
It isn't all that difficult really. Just keep repeating to yourself
that something isn't so just because somebody else says it.
That applies no matter how ancient the claim is.
This idea of some kind of eternal existence for example is
just wishful thinking. It does, on first sight, be attractive but
you cannot pretend it into existence like little girls can pretend
there are fairies. As the story goes, the moment a child ceases to
beleive in faries they die.
I know reaity seems a very frightning thing to people
but it will catch you up in the end. Why not start to come
to terms with it now and start to make your own meaning
for your life and enjoy it to the full?
I hope this helps you.
If the atheist is honest, he will admit
to feeling that there is something more to existence, something bigger.
Someone said, ''The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction
with any other solution.''
Why would I do that? After all, it matter not whether I have such
feeling and dreams , what matters is what actually happens. Dreaming
of things will not make it so.
It is strange that some people desire immortality. I guess on the
face of it such a notion would appear attractive but when you
understand eternity is an infinity of time it soon begins to look
like so kind of horrible nightmare. Shudder, my hope is for true
and final death but a longer healthy life. Again this is of course
just wishful thinking on my part though bearing in mind that
our self-awareness is the product of a physical brain that
ceases to function whe we die it does seem the most logical
conclusion.
According to Scripture, God has ''set eternity in the hearts of men''
(Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress
the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal.
Why are you quoting the notions of a ancient anonymous god claimer
that has no relevance to the modern world or reality? If you are
seeking reality and an escape from the grip of supestition you are
looking in the wrong place as the book it comes from cannot help you.
2. The atheist must suppress the demands of logic.
Hmm, I don't think we need take any lessons from theist about logic
LOL - see below for an example of theist logic!
He is like the man who
finds an encyclopedia in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product
of intelligent design.
Why would you do that?
Everything about the book suggests intelligent
cause.
Obviously. So why would you regard it as otherwise unless
you have little regard for our human abilities? Heck our brains
are so inventive we even create gods in them.
But if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to
conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells
(each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an
intelligent cause. His bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
Hmm it seems you are the one who needs a lesson in logic. Here
goes:
Premis: A inanimate printed Books is the product of human intelligence
(a clear statement that is either logically true or false)
Conclusion: Therefore an evolved complex living creature is the
product of intelligent design
Now in this example the conclusion is not based on the
premis but itself is an entirely separate premis in its own right
which, again can be either true or false. Thus the argument
is false since it is based on a non-sequitor and besides it
is too loose an argument to be considered as rigid enough
to be considered logic.
Might I suggest you take an elementary mathematics course
as you will be able to learn the basics of logic from it.
3. The atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why?
What are 'miracles'?
Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist
is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist
We know no such thing. Just like you we have no idea of the origins
of the universe or whether it had one. It would be stupid to draw up
an argument from ignorance to explain it and even worse to base that
argument on superstion. Such an argument would be fatally flawed
anyway. If you were to claim the universe was designed and created
by a living intelligence (let's call it X) Then X would need to be
very powerful indeed. So how much more would Y have to be to
create X and how much more would Z have to be to create Y.
This notion that everything must have a cause is clearly illogical
as it implies an infinity of causers each more ifinitly more powerful
than its predecessors. This clearly cannot be so.
No, this is a uncessessary complication. Let's stick to what we
know and what we can determine rather than delve into
fantasies like this.
and
since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is,
We humans created and defined the word thus. If you disagree
then I suggest you contact the dictionary compilers. You cannot
blame us for for defining the meanings of words.
the very
existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of
nature (i.e., a miracle).
Your seems is an argument from ignorance. You cannot make conclusions
from 'seems'
It's hard to believe in miracles without God.
Again that depends on how you define 'miracle' but it is moot
anyway as the above is only a 'seems' from ignorance.
4. An atheist must suppress all notions of morality.
Must he?
Why must we abandon instincts of right and wrong and all
notions of self control? These are valuable traits inherited
by all highly evolved social animals and essential to our
survival as a species.
Sorry but it would be madness to do such a thing. 'Must' all
you like but the answer is NO!
He is not able to
declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions
require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is
no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better
than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority.
This is the one thing I fear about Christians and other believers .
Barely under control as it is they have caused conflict and misery
ever since time began denying themselves all their natural
instincts and putting in their place a degenerate fear and
ignorance based superstition from an alien middle-eastern
hate filled revenge culture that was long since rejected as
of any value in the west. This culture is not so much ageing
as in the rotting stages its stench filling the world with hatred.
I hope they never abandon their beliefs all at once as it is clear
that having abandoned all notions of self-control and a in-built
sense of right from wrong they would immediately go berserk
raping and pillaging and treating the rest of the world with even
less respect than they do now.
When they have distintegrated the world into chaos we are the
ones who are going to have to pick up the pieces and start to teach
them self-control and how to recognise their proper place in
society. They badly need to learn tolerance and respect for the
rights of others as it is if they are to play a full part in
building a peaceful society. We do our best now but they undermine
our work at every turn sewing division (especially through
racisms) , hatred, fear and superstition.
Fortunately we have learned these hard lessons in Europe. Religion
has all but collapsed here. All the old wars and religion based
emnities and fear have faded away as just a distant nightmare and as a
result we have been at peace now for the longest period in
our entire history. We cooperate together in a way undeamed
of when religion ruled the roost and have never been more
prosperous. People are free to live their lives within society
as they feel best. At last we are at peace and crime levels have
started to fall. They are lowest in countries where religion has all
but gone.
Here hoping for a better world free from the dead hand
of religion.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 08:32:25 AM |
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|
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:19:16 -0500, Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
What is it about theists that they feel they have to justify their belief,
or attack the non-beliefs of atheists? It's pretty obvious that we are
hard-wired to believe in things that may not exist. The fact that some of
us have overcome that tendency and use our rational minds to determine
what is true and what isn't should not be a threat to those that choose to
go with their instincts instead. If it were not for the religious
extremists trying to get their version of God into the government and
public schools, there would be little conflict between us.
I suppose it comes down to a battle for the hearts and minds of the
religious moderates, who make up the vast majority of the population (of
the USA). If the religious extremists can make atheists look even more
extreme than they are, by portraying us as "God Haters", they will get
more sympathy for themselves.
I guess I just answered my own question. Never mind.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Commentary: Eight reasons why I am not an atheist |
25 Nov 2007 08:46:38 AM |
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On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:32:25 -0500, MarkA <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:19:16 -0500, Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes,
What is it about theists that they feel they have to justify their belief,
or attack the non-beliefs of atheists? It's pretty obvious that we are
hard-wired to believe in things that may not exist. The fact that some of
us have overcome that tendency and use our rational minds to determine
what is true and what isn't should not be a threat to those that choose to
go with their instincts instead. If it were not for the religious
extremists trying to get their version of God into the government and
public schools, there would be little conflict between us.
What is it about theists that they invent slanderous/libelous
falsehoods about those who don't believe as they do, based on
doctrinal presumptions they know only apply inside their religion?
I suppose it comes down to a battle for the hearts and minds of the
religious moderates, who make up the vast majority of the population (of
the USA). If the religious extremists can make atheists look even more
extreme than they are, by portraying us as "God Haters", they will get
more sympathy for themselves.
It's bigoted nastiness. Today's equivalent of the KKK burning a cross
outside a black home, or scrawling a swastika outside a Jewish one.
Both of which are groups that have done nothing to earn it, but whose
very existence is deemed offensive by the bigots.
I don't think we're hard wired to believe in things that may not
exist.
We are hard wired to absorb programming from those closest in our
formative years.
Which includes god belief (for believers) and behaviour towards those
outside their group.
Those who aren't programmed that way don't grow up theist. It also
includes hatred for those different.
Religion is a potent meme, which transmits hatred for those different.
I guess I just answered my own question. Never mind.
.
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