Religions > Atheism > 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
27 Mar 2006 11:31:54 PM |
| Object: |
'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression, when that expression is
not the politically correct philosophy of active homos. Sounds to me like
GLSEN is the one in violation of the agreement.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/printver.asp
(AgapePress) - A homosexual activist group and an "ex-gay" group are
accusing each other of misconstruing a new agreement between the Gay Lesbian
and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) and the Christian Educators
Association International (CEAI) on how to deal with the issue of sexual
orientation in public schools.
The document -- which is called "Public Schools and Sexual Orientation: A
First Amendment Framework for Finding Common Ground" -- recommends that
schools not adopt a certain organization's agenda, but rather invite all
stakeholders to the table when discussing sexuality. Among other things,
this "common ground" document urges school officials to "take seriously
complaints of name calling, harassment, and discrimination" and to avoid
discriminating against student clubs because of their political or religious
message.
But Jody Huckaby -- the head of the homosexuality advocacy group Parents,
Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) -- claims the group
Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX) has "utterly twisted the
intent of the document" by suggesting that the perspective of former
homosexuals is protected by the First Amendment and should be heard in
public schools. In addition, PFLAG says although the "ex-gay" viewpoint
should be "heard during deliberations," it does not "warrant the stamp of
legitimacy."
--
----------------
" The truth shall set you free "
.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
28 Mar 2006 06:35:28 AM |
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In News sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com,, J Young at
youngopinions@aol.com, typed this:
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left
And you're the head cheerleader from the Roman Catholic Pedophillic Priests
Association.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. – Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
28 Mar 2006 01:44:25 PM |
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|
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
28 Mar 2006 02:48:55 PM |
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
<HuGdnVT43NKED7TZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@megapath.net>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
Actually, news organizations are allowed to lie. Fox News went to
court in Florida to uphold their right to knowingly present false
information in their news broadcasts. Of course, whether Fox News
actually qualifies as a "news broadcast" is another matter. Even they
call it Fox News Entertainment. Sort of like Professional Wrestling,
I guess.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/rbgh/030703_rbgh.cfm
.
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| User: "Bonnie B" |
|
| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 03:04:18 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander
(and/or libel if it's in print too).
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and
consciences stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains
whine about persecution and infringement of their religious rights,
and the republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying
to restrict everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap.
And when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with
facts from the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains
lie about a gay agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the
1972 APA conference where homosexuality was removed from the DSM.
The christstains, in effect, shift the burden of proof from themselves
having to prove their claims as right to the other side having to
prove that the christstains' claims are wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side
became just as vociferous as the christstains are.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 08:06:45 AM |
|
|
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<naqp225rof7tja2helm6t4mvt45ufe441h@4ax.com>...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander (and/or
libel if it's in print too).
Well, I didn't express that too well. I would say there's no "right" to
lie but it depends on what you're doing as to whether we consider it an
illegal or otherwise actionable act. Meaning, for example, lying on a
witness stand is perjury and you can go to jail. Lying to bilk someone out
of their money is fraud and you can got to jail. Answering the question
"do these pants make me look fat" with "not at all" is an act of
self-defense. <G>
But I'm saying that freedom of expression doesn't include a "right to
lie." If it did, you couldn't prosecute fraud or perjury or slander or
libel and such things. It's a thing we hold that we can regulate depending
on what harm is or may be caused so it's not technically included in
"freedom of expression." It's that the courts try to "err on the side of
caution." If a "lie" (which can be a murky thing to establish) cannot be
shown to cause harm enough to be of interest to the state, it's better to
let it go rather than risk damaging 1st Amendment rights.
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and consciences
stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains whine about
persecution and infringement of their religious rights, and the
republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying to restrict
everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap. And
when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with facts from
the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains lie about a gay
agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the 1972 APA conference
where homosexuality was removed from the DSM. The christstains, in effect,
shift the burden of proof from themselves having to prove their claims as
right to the other side having to prove that the christstains' claims are
wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side became
just as vociferous as the christstains are.
It's one reason I won't budge from "freedom of expression does not include
lying." What the Paul Cameron types are trying to do is include *fraud* as
a part of 1st Amendment rights.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
Sued hell. We *jail people who make false medical claims...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 08:15:35 AM |
|
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:06:45 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
<S8mdnRKlDOboqrDZRVn-gg@megapath.net>
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<naqp225rof7tja2helm6t4mvt45ufe441h@4ax.com>...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander (and/or
libel if it's in print too).
Well, I didn't express that too well. I would say there's no "right" to
lie but it depends on what you're doing as to whether we consider it an
illegal or otherwise actionable act. Meaning, for example, lying on a
witness stand is perjury and you can go to jail. Lying to bilk someone out
of their money is fraud and you can got to jail. Answering the question
"do these pants make me look fat" with "not at all" is an act of
self-defense. <G>
But I'm saying that freedom of expression doesn't include a "right to
lie." If it did, you couldn't prosecute fraud or perjury or slander or
libel and such things. It's a thing we hold that we can regulate depending
on what harm is or may be caused so it's not technically included in
"freedom of expression." It's that the courts try to "err on the side of
caution." If a "lie" (which can be a murky thing to establish) cannot be
shown to cause harm enough to be of interest to the state, it's better to
let it go rather than risk damaging 1st Amendment rights.
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and consciences
stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains whine about
persecution and infringement of their religious rights, and the
republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying to restrict
everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap. And
when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with facts from
the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains lie about a gay
agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the 1972 APA conference
where homosexuality was removed from the DSM. The christstains, in effect,
shift the burden of proof from themselves having to prove their claims as
right to the other side having to prove that the christstains' claims are
wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side became
just as vociferous as the christstains are.
It's one reason I won't budge from "freedom of expression does not include
lying." What the Paul Cameron types are trying to do is include *fraud* as
a part of 1st Amendment rights.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
Sued hell. We *jail people who make false medical claims...
Unfortunately most, if not all, of these "reparative" outfits hide
themselves behind the skirt of religion by being some kind church or
ministry of some sort or another. It seems to give them some kind of
immunity, although I'm not sure why. Priests, after all, can be
charged with sexual assault for molesting children.
.
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 08:20:11 AM |
|
|
Previously, on alt.atheism, Boy Toy in episode
<g3eq22tj9k2v9c0ojo49iunvv8os06mjrv@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:06:45 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
<S8mdnRKlDOboqrDZRVn-gg@megapath.net>
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<naqp225rof7tja2helm6t4mvt45ufe441h@4ax.com>...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left
) always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander (and/or
libel if it's in print too).
Well, I didn't express that too well. I would say there's no "right" to
lie but it depends on what you're doing as to whether we consider it an
illegal or otherwise actionable act. Meaning, for example, lying on a
witness stand is perjury and you can go to jail. Lying to bilk someone
out of their money is fraud and you can got to jail. Answering the
question "do these pants make me look fat" with "not at all" is an act of
self-defense. <G>
But I'm saying that freedom of expression doesn't include a "right to
lie." If it did, you couldn't prosecute fraud or perjury or slander or
libel and such things. It's a thing we hold that we can regulate
depending on what harm is or may be caused so it's not technically
included in "freedom of expression." It's that the courts try to "err on
the side of caution." If a "lie" (which can be a murky thing to
establish) cannot be shown to cause harm enough to be of interest to the
state, it's better to let it go rather than risk damaging 1st Amendment
rights.
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and
consciences stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains whine
about persecution and infringement of their religious rights, and the
republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying to
restrict everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap. And
when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with facts
from the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains lie
about a gay agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the 1972 APA
conference where homosexuality was removed from the DSM. The
christstains, in effect, shift the burden of proof from themselves
having to prove their claims as right to the other side having to prove
that the christstains' claims are wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side
became just as vociferous as the christstains are.
It's one reason I won't budge from "freedom of expression does not
include lying." What the Paul Cameron types are trying to do is include
*fraud* as a part of 1st Amendment rights.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
Sued hell. We *jail people who make false medical claims...
Unfortunately most, if not all, of these "reparative" outfits hide
themselves behind the skirt of religion by being some kind church or
ministry of some sort or another. It seems to give them some kind of
immunity, although I'm not sure why. Priests, after all, can be charged
with sexual assault for molesting children.
It doesn't give them immunity. It's that our government walks on egg
shells around religion. And I can understand that to a degree but these
people are making *medical claims and causing harm. They've stepped
outside of religion and do not deserve "protection" any more than the
priests who molest.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Bonnie B" |
|
| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 08:50:37 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:06:45 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<naqp225rof7tja2helm6t4mvt45ufe441h@4ax.com>...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander (and/or
libel if it's in print too).
Well, I didn't express that too well. I would say there's no "right" to
lie but it depends on what you're doing as to whether we consider it an
illegal or otherwise actionable act. Meaning, for example, lying on a
witness stand is perjury and you can go to jail. Lying to bilk someone out
of their money is fraud and you can got to jail. Answering the question
"do these pants make me look fat" with "not at all" is an act of
self-defense. <G>
Here, here! (I see you've been there and done that too?)
But I'm saying that freedom of expression doesn't include a "right to
lie."
And I'd still disagree with you.
It's only perjury, fraud, and/or libel IF you get caught.
If it did, you couldn't prosecute fraud or perjury or slander or
libel and such things.
It's only perjury, fraud, and/or libel IF you get caught.
It's a thing we hold that we can regulate depending
on what harm is or may be caused so it's not technically included in
"freedom of expression."
All freedoms have limits.
It's that the courts try to "err on the side of
caution." If a "lie" (which can be a murky thing to establish) cannot be
shown to cause harm enough to be of interest to the state, it's better to
let it go rather than risk damaging 1st Amendment rights.
You _would drag my favorite amendment into this. <g>
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and consciences
stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains whine about
persecution and infringement of their religious rights, and the
republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying to restrict
everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap. And
when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with facts from
the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains lie about a gay
agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the 1972 APA conference
where homosexuality was removed from the DSM. The christstains, in effect,
shift the burden of proof from themselves having to prove their claims as
right to the other side having to prove that the christstains' claims are
wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side became
just as vociferous as the christstains are.
It's one reason I won't budge from "freedom of expression does not include
lying." What the Paul Cameron types are trying to do is include *fraud* as
a part of 1st Amendment rights.
But they're also hedging their bet by claiming that their crap is also
protected by freedom of religion.
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
Sued hell. We *jail people who make false medical claims...
We do? When did this start? Why was I not informed of this? <g>
I'm calling a staff meeting immediately to assess this breakdown in
communications.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 02:27:45 PM |
|
|
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<7ofq22l4rdhjmnhimfso5v1b0k910ksv7s@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:06:45 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, Bonnie B in episode
<naqp225rof7tja2helm6t4mvt45ufe441h@4ax.com>...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>
Previously, on alt.atheism, J Young in episode
<sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com>...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left
) always seem to have a problem with free expression
Free expression does not include the right to lie to people nor to make
psychological claims that are nothing but quackery.
Actually, free expression.speech does include the right to lie _to_
people.
Ya just can't lie _about_ people, because that's either slander (and/or
libel if it's in print too).
Well, I didn't express that too well. I would say there's no "right" to
lie but it depends on what you're doing as to whether we consider it an
illegal or otherwise actionable act. Meaning, for example, lying on a
witness stand is perjury and you can go to jail. Lying to bilk someone
out of their money is fraud and you can got to jail. Answering the
question "do these pants make me look fat" with "not at all" is an act of
self-defense. <G>
Here, here! (I see you've been there and done that too?)
Not that one specifically but I've had to think fast in cases such as when
my college roommate's girlfriend asked an opinion on an outfit. <g>
But I'm saying that freedom of expression doesn't include a "right to
lie."
And I'd still disagree with you.
It's only perjury, fraud, and/or libel IF you get caught.
If it did, you couldn't prosecute fraud or perjury or slander or libel
and such things.
It's only perjury, fraud, and/or libel IF you get caught.
But that's beside the issue of whether it's a "right." The same could be
said for theft, murder, embezzlement, etc. Getting away with something
doesn't make it "right" nor "a right."
It's a thing we hold that we can regulate depending on what harm is or
may be caused so it's not technically included in "freedom of
expression."
All freedoms have limits.
It's that the courts try to "err on the side of
caution." If a "lie" (which can be a murky thing to establish) cannot be
shown to cause harm enough to be of interest to the state, it's better
to let it go rather than risk damaging 1st Amendment rights.
You _would drag my favorite amendment into this. <g>
Mine too. <g>
Thing being I can understand treading lightly. It's a slippery slope I'd
rather not go skidding down. But, dammit, the fundies are standing there
going "neener neener!" and making it harder by the day.
The problem with the quackery is that christstains and republiCUNTS
imagine that they have a holy mandate to lie to everyone, especially
concerning GLBT people. And when those of us with brains and
consciences stand up to say, "No, you're wrong," the christstains
whine about persecution and infringement of their religious rights,
and the republiCUNTS P&M about how those eeeeevilll libruls are trying
to restrict everyone's right to free speech.
That's their big strawman deflecting attention from the facts.
The christstains then assert their right to lie with cites from Paul
Cameron and their own organizations and also claim "free exercise" to
religion to keep bleating their organization's (like Exodus) crap. And
when those of us with brains and consciences refute them with facts
from the peer-reviewed, scientific literature, the christstains lie
about a gay agenda and about how we allegedly commandeered the 1972
APA conference where homosexuality was removed from the DSM. The
christstains, in effect, shift the burden of proof from themselves
having to prove their claims as right to the other side having to
prove that the christstains' claims are wrong.
It's just a sick merry-go-round, and it's high time that our side
became just as vociferous as the christstains are.
It's one reason I won't budge from "freedom of expression does not
include lying." What the Paul Cameron types are trying to do is include
*fraud* as a part of 1st Amendment rights.
But they're also hedging their bet by claiming that their crap is also
protected by freedom of religion.
Yeah but they're wrong.
Long as they want to "pray" about it, that's religion. When they have
"therapy sessions," they've left religion and willingly moved into a field
that can (and is) regulated in the public interest.
(Okay, that last part is "only a theory" under the current regime but you
know what I mean <g>)
"Reparative therapists" should be prosecuted for fraud.
I totally agree. They should be sued into oblivion, especially when
someone under their "care" dies from it.
Sued hell. We *jail people who make false medical claims...
We do? When did this start? Why was I not informed of this? <g> I'm
calling a staff meeting immediately to assess this breakdown in
communications.
Well, I know there are criminal sanctions in areas of the laws governing
medical issues (the FDA does file criminal charges against people for
various reasons and quacks have been sent to jail before). But whether
this would cover fraudulent psychological therapy, I'm not sure and may be
speaking out of turn.
But, well, I ain't a lawyer...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Dolf Boek" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
31 Mar 2006 04:07:11 PM |
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Which reminds me as to whether before the factious invention known as the
Christian anti-gay agenda, whether solar eclipse phenomenon was the only
factor in social declension.
This afteral is the situation regarding the perpetuation of propaganda is
manifestly apparent in the circumstance of myths surrounding Pope John Paul
(May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005) being a denier of the hyponomic character of
the hypostatis and the personality of Jesus Christ. [cf: The Desire of Ages,
The Great Controversy of the Ages;
<http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/rottenburg.html>]
The obvious anthropological question is whether the topical year cycle with
a dependency upon astronomical (visible planets) symbolic associations is
the basis for hypernomic (ie. in this case agricultural) aggregations of
people into communities exhibiting civility.
The question then, given the exigency of religious/political life to have
recourse to such phenomenon, as to whether blindness was a consequence of
observing geodesic solar eclipse occurrences. If a sudden and permanent
bereavement of faculty occurred amongst the upper social stratum resulting
in a mindset of spiraling declension as social deratiocination?
Thus having no artisans capable of indelibly recording proscriptions to
avoid such cosmological artifices [Deuteronomy 4:15-20], whether they
perished leaving the testimony of the level of beautiful accomplishment as
the civilization of their culture.
- dolf
- <http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/alex.html>
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:sq2dnc8Nv9rEV7XZ4p2dnA@giganews.com...
Homosexuals and their cheerleaders from the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left )
always seem to have a problem with free expression, when that expression is
not the politically correct philosophy of active homos. Sounds to me like
GLSEN is the one in violation of the agreement.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/printver.asp
(AgapePress) - A homosexual activist group and an "ex-gay" group are
accusing each other of misconstruing a new agreement between the Gay Lesbian
and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) and the Christian Educators
Association International (CEAI) on how to deal with the issue of sexual
orientation in public schools.
The document -- which is called "Public Schools and Sexual Orientation: A
First Amendment Framework for Finding Common Ground" -- recommends that
schools not adopt a certain organization's agenda, but rather invite all
stakeholders to the table when discussing sexuality. Among other things,
this "common ground" document urges school officials to "take seriously
complaints of name calling, harassment, and discrimination" and to avoid
discriminating against student clubs because of their political or religious
message.
But Jody Huckaby -- the head of the homosexuality advocacy group Parents,
Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) -- claims the group
Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX) has "utterly twisted the
intent of the document" by suggesting that the perspective of former
homosexuals is protected by the First Amendment and should be heard in
public schools. In addition, PFLAG says although the "ex-gay" viewpoint
should be "heard during deliberations," it does not "warrant the stamp of
legitimacy."
--
----------------
" The truth shall set you free "
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: 'Common Ground' Document at Center of Homosexual-'Ex-Gay' Squabble |
28 Mar 2006 12:12:00 AM |
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Why are so obsessed with homosexuality?
Besides, YOU have a problem with free expression: aren't you the one
who wants to ban Will & Grace and South Park from the air because they
make fun of your religion?
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