| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kenny Leong" |
| Date: |
25 Dec 2003 11:17:51 AM |
| Object: |
Completely pointless |
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything. They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer). So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god', then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer. The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE. Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something. But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product. That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
.
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
27 Dec 2003 11:45:56 PM |
|
|
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything. They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer). So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god', then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer. The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE. Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something. But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product. That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 07:12:36 AM |
|
|
On 27 Dec 2003 21:45:56 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
Gee, little kenny, couldn't you do your own story?
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything. They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer). So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god', then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer. The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE. Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something. But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product. That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
30 Dec 2003 02:54:56 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<5lltuvsa4ni8de76v8027hf9fbu3asr6u5@4ax.com>...
On 27 Dec 2003 21:45:56 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
Gee, little kenny, couldn't you do your own story?
It's not a story you idiot. I'm mentioning the facts.
Kenny L.
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything. They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer). So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god', then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer. The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE. Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something. But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product. That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 07:11:40 AM |
|
|
On 25 Dec 2003 09:17:51 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything.
They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer).
Whereas it is quite true, it's you atheists that keep bringing it up. You make
your mistake when you take the phrase and try to define limitations of God
almighty with it.
You try to proclaim that God's perfect plan to give man a 100% free will (in his
own likeness and image) precudes man doing evil. Then you try to say that man
doing evil negates God as a perfect planner.
God's perfect plan for us is to choose to love him. Saddam mandated love of him
with a bullet. God wants us to choose out of love.
So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god',
God doesn't just exist "in the universe, per se". God created the universe.
then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
But your "obvious" theory falls completely apart when you inject God's real plan
- free choice. Which negates a preplanned mechanical movement.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer.
Sure it can. Free will is the perfect plan.
What father demands his children love him. What a father wants more than
anything else from his children is that they love him, and respect and accept
him for all their needs. God is the perfect Father.
The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE.
Correction: 1) that's "in the beginning", and 2) God created the heavens and
the universe, so he clearly existed before them.
Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Well, you buried this one a few statements above.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something.
Yet you continue to hide from "free choice".
But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product.
Wow, you're digging your hole deeper and deeper.
That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an eternity
in hell? Why not help them instead?
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
The problem is that your basics are full of holes.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 10:58:45 AM |
|
|
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jlktuvsm1bfn724gcmgggj5319e3tvso9n@4ax.com...
On 25 Dec 2003 09:17:51 -0800, (Kenny Leong)
wrote:
<snip>
That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an
eternity
in hell? Why not help them instead?
Hell? Duke, didn't you say God does not punish in the afterlife.
Remember this?:
"> >Doesn't God punish some souls in the afterlife?
"> >Is that love? Is that not anger?
">
"> Depending on your meaning, I must say no. God does not punish in the
afterlife.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 06:41:16 PM |
|
|
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <rbaker4@msnn.com> wrote in message news:<9ZDHb.30665$nG3.10509@twister.socal.rr.com>...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jlktuvsm1bfn724gcmgggj5319e3tvso9n@4ax.com...
On 25 Dec 2003 09:17:51 -0800, (Kenny Leong)
wrote:
<snip>
That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an
eternity
in hell? Why not help them instead?
Hell? Duke, didn't you say God does not punish in the afterlife.
Remember this?:
"> >Doesn't God punish some souls in the afterlife?
"> >Is that love? Is that not anger?
">
"> Depending on your meaning, I must say no. God does not punish in the
afterlife.
This shows very nicely that duke doesn't know what the ***** hell
he's talking about. He simply makes things up just for some kind of
challenge even if whatever he makes up is completely ridiculous....and
we know it. He 'may' know it too, or even worse...he may not know it
(which is scary)!
Kenny L.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 04:00:48 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:58:45 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <rbaker4@msnn.com>
wrote:
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an
eternity in hell? Why not help them instead?
Hell? Duke, didn't you say God does not punish in the afterlife.
Remember this?:
"> >Doesn't God punish some souls in the afterlife?
"> >Is that love? Is that not anger?
"> Depending on your meaning, I must say no. God does not punish in the
afterlife.
Actually, my answer is still the "basic NO".
At the moment of our death, we are judged - uptown or downtown. My comment was
specifically directed at the concept of arbitrary changing levels of "punish" in
the afterlife.
We know that once one is relegated to the land of the lost, it is forever. No
coming back. No second chance. No chance to redeem oneself. No chance to ask
for another ruling, etc. It is done - one way or the other.
There is a very clear statement of no forgiveness after the big judgement. You
lived your life, you made your life choices knowing the consequences, it is
forever.
Now, the concept of "punish" in hell is uncertain. Christ clearly used the
concept of separating the wheat from the chaff and burning the chaff. In the
real world, that is separating the good (wheat) from the bad (chaff), and
burning the chaff.
However, we know that God is all love, so heaven with God is all love, and hence
hell is all no love - no love of God, no love of self, no love of family, no
love of friend, no love at all - totally loveless. Just an aimless, cold, and
loveless wandering for all eternity. No one has ever gone and come back. So no
one knows for sure.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
30 Dec 2003 02:56:27 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<k1kuuv45q6uq4809htpg15abaatrsav3gc@4ax.com>...
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:58:45 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <rbaker4@msnn.com>
wrote:
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an
eternity in hell? Why not help them instead?
Hell? Duke, didn't you say God does not punish in the afterlife.
Remember this?:
"> >Doesn't God punish some souls in the afterlife?
"> >Is that love? Is that not anger?
"> Depending on your meaning, I must say no. God does not punish in the
afterlife.
Actually, my answer is still the "basic NO".
So you're the kind that sometimes says 'yes' to a question, and at
other times say 'no' to the SAME question. That's 100 percent proof
that you're an idiot.
Kenny L.
At the moment of our death, we are judged - uptown or downtown. My comment was
specifically directed at the concept of arbitrary changing levels of "punish" in
the afterlife.
We know that once one is relegated to the land of the lost, it is forever. No
coming back. No second chance. No chance to redeem oneself. No chance to ask
for another ruling, etc. It is done - one way or the other.
There is a very clear statement of no forgiveness after the big judgement. You
lived your life, you made your life choices knowing the consequences, it is
forever.
Now, the concept of "punish" in hell is uncertain. Christ clearly used the
concept of separating the wheat from the chaff and burning the chaff. In the
real world, that is separating the good (wheat) from the bad (chaff), and
burning the chaff.
However, we know that God is all love, so heaven with God is all love, and hence
hell is all no love - no love of God, no love of self, no love of family, no
love of friend, no love at all - totally loveless. Just an aimless, cold, and
loveless wandering for all eternity. No one has ever gone and come back. So no
one knows for sure.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Completely pointless |
28 Dec 2003 02:34:31 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<jlktuvsm1bfn724gcmgggj5319e3tvso9n@4ax.com>...
On 25 Dec 2003 09:17:51 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I don't really understand why there needs to be any argument about
whether the christian god exists or not. It's a completely ridiculous
and mute point.
If christians reckon that their god was the only entity (thing) around
in the 'universe' at one stage, and nothing else was around. Then the
game is over already. That's the end of the story.
Why? It's because when you take their own story and start at the
beginning (without jumping the gun), then the answer becomes clear
right away. That is, christians believe that their god knows
everything.
They also believe that their god is a perfect planner (and
perfect designer).
Whereas it is quite true, it's you atheists that keep bringing it up. You make
your mistake when you take the phrase and try to define limitations of God
almighty with it.
On the contrary. It's you theists that make a major mistake right at
the beginning of the bible. You think that nobody was around at the
beginning when 'god' decided to create the universe and people, but at
the same time, you think that 'god' knows everything and is a perfect
planner and perfect designer. But dukey....you don't realise that the
product (humans) weren't even around when 'god' decided to conjure
things up. However, if you're already all-knowing, and you're a
perfect designer and perfect planner, then there's no way you can
conjure up something that can do something wrong. Because even a small
minded person like you should know that a all-knowing, perfect
planning and perfect designing entity MUST know every future
mechanical action of the entity's PRODUCT because that entity CHOSE
all of those movements before the product even exists.
If you believe that such a all-knowing, perfect planning and perfect
designing god can make something that god did not know about, or god
did not choose in advance...then it is obvious that your god would not
be all-knowing, would not be perfect planning, and would not be
perfect designing. It means that god cannot create a product with
free-will. And especially, an all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect
designer has no need to judge it's own product because whatever it
makes will do exactly as it had chosen and planned all-knowingly
before the product even exists. Therefore once the product is made, it
will move in the way that 'god' chose, and those movements become
exactly god's own movements because it was god that chose those
movements...every single movement.
You try to proclaim that God's perfect plan to give man a 100% free will (in his
own likeness and image) precudes man doing evil. Then you try to say that man
doing evil negates God as a perfect planner.
Your problem is that you don't understand that a all-knowing, perfect
planner, and perfect designer and creator of the universe can not
create something that does something unexpected to that creator.
Otherwise, that creator would not be all-knowing. If that creator
could create something that made it upset or disappointed, then that
creator would not be perfect planning, or perfect designing, or even
all-knowing...unless it deliberately made it to do that...ie like
self-mutilation. Evil is completely irrelevant because an all-knowing,
perfect planner and designer can only create a product that is under
that creator's complete control.....mechanically speaking. You might
want to play with other terms in your fantasy dream dukey, but first
you must address the issue of knowing all of your product's future
movements because you chose all of those movements by perfect planning
in advance...before the product even exists. And even if you delayed
the product's creation by a long time...the end result would not
change according to what you chose for those mechanical
actions...becase god is supposed to be all-knowing, and perfect
planning.
God's perfect plan for us is to choose to love him. Saddam mandated love of him
with a bullet. God wants us to choose out of love.
Nonsense dukey. You're jumping the gun. If you're all-knowing, and
perfect planning, then you can only create a product that's under your
full control. All the stuff you're saying is completely irrelevant.
You must start right at the beginning of the bible. Nothing else that
comes after the start of the bible is relevant..so stop introducing
extraneous useless material dukey. You start at the beginning...god
being all-knowing, and god's product does not yet exist. It simply
means straight away that if god chooses to create a product, then ALL
of the product's mechanical actions will be known before the product
is created. The product is not even around to choose anything. Only
'god' chooses all mechanical movements for the product before the
product is made. Got that dukey? I hope your brain doesn't shut down
trying to work that simple thing out.
So...if nothing else exists in the universe at one
stage except for their 'god',
God doesn't just exist "in the universe, per se". God created the universe.
Well, the universe that we're in must be a subuniverse. Because
universe in our terms means everything..and this even includes god to
be within it. I guess you can't comprehend such a simple thing as
well.
then it is completely obvious that every
single mechanical movement of any product created by their god is
completely known in advance (before the creation of that product). The
two conditions - 1) complete knowledge of all mechanical actions for
that product in advance, AND 2) choosing ALL mechanical actions for
that product in advance are directly linked because that's what it
requires to be a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer.
But your "obvious" theory falls completely apart when you inject God's real plan
- free choice. Which negates a preplanned mechanical movement.
That's where you fall down on your face, because you don't understand
that your god can only know everything about the product before the
creation of that product is because your god is supposed to be
all-knowing AS WELL as perfect planning. If god already knows
everything about that product before it's created, then there's
absolutely no need to go forward and create that product physically
just to see what it will do. And if your 'god' did create the product
physically just for fun, then nothing that the product will do can be
faulted, because your god is the one that caused all of those
movements before the product even existed physically. The product will
just run perfectly the way it did in god's own virtual memory video
player playback. So basically...you god is the scriptwriter,
moviemaker, filmer, director, producer..all in one. Your god is just a
moviemaker.
The consequence of those first fundamental 'beliefs' above (ie
starting from the beginning of the bible without jumping the gun and
taking detours) means that the christian god CANNOT create a product
that has free-will. If god could design a product with free-will, then
it is immediately obvious that their god can NOT be all-knowing, and
can NOT be a perfect planner, and can NOT be a perfect designer.
Sure it can. Free will is the perfect plan.
Nonsense... not if you already know all the future movements of your
product before the product even exists physically...you idiot.
What father demands his children love him. What a father wants more than
anything else from his children is that they love him, and respect and accept
him for all their needs. God is the perfect Father.
Irrelevant dukey. Start at the beginning and stop trying to talk about
things that are past the beginning of the bible which are irrelevant.
The
bible also says 'at the beginning' ..and tells folks that the product
is not even existing AT ONE STAGE.
Correction: 1) that's "in the beginning", and 2) God created the heavens and
the universe, so he clearly existed before them.
That's what I mean. The 'beginning' means that god was around but all
other things were NOT around. You can't even understand what I was
writing even though I was very clear about it...so then how would I
expect you to understand anything else even slightly more complex than
that simple thing? No wonder you don't understand anything dukey.
Therefore, timing becomes
important, and their god is dependent on time. If god is NOT dependent
on time, then the bible should not say 'at the beginning' when there
was nothing around except for 'god'.
Well, you buried this one a few statements above.
Not at all. You just have no clue about what you're talking about.
Basically... being an all-knowing CREATOR of everything means that
every mechanical action of the product was chosen BEFORE the product
even exists 'physically'. If you want to go one up on that...and say
that all mechanical actions were chosen BEFORE the product even exists
'virtually' (ie in the mind)....then you can immediately see that the
picture SELF-DESTRUCTS because it means you already know what you're
going to create and choose before you've even created and chosen
something.
Yet you continue to hide from "free choice".
I already explained to you free-choice is irrelevant if you believe
that your god is all-knowing and is a perfect planner and perfect
designer. If god's product didn't exist before god all-knowingly
planned everything, then it means that god would know every single
mechanical movement for the future product. Therefore there is no need
to create that future product to see what it will do, because god
already knows those movements by god's own choice of those movements.
You dummy.
But if we just simply allow it that the christian god is an
all-knowing, perfect planner, then all mechanical actions of that
product must be chosen in advance, and the future movement of the
product will be EXACTLY the movements of the CREATOR itself....since
this all-knowing creator is the SOURCE of every single mechanical
movement of the product.
Wow, you're digging your hole deeper and deeper.
You're making yourself look more and more stupid whenever you try to
wriggle your way out of something that you can't get out of dukey.
That is...the product IS the creator itself.
There becomes absolutely no need to judge or sentence the product,
because every single movement of the product is chosen and known
before the product even exists physically. Thus judgement day is
complete nonsense. And to become disappointed or upset or angry about
the product is completely ridiculous.
Why are you trying to talk all your little buddies on the fence into an eternity
in hell? Why not help them instead?
Why aren't you using your brain dukey, instead of making stupid
comments like that?
I'm sure that everybody in the whole world could arrive at exactly the
same conclusions if they just thought about this simple thing for say
5 minutes (or even half an hour if they wanted to). It's kind of scary
when people don't even understand such BASIC things even when they've
been told in black and white the real deal. Very scary actually.
The problem is that your basics are full of holes.
The obvious problem is that you don't use your brain to think dukey.
Kenny L.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
