| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eris" |
| Date: |
06 Dec 2007 09:04:38 AM |
| Object: |
Contemporary writes alive when JC walked the earth |
There must have been hundreds. Aren't there written discussions
between the rabbi's of the time? Why isn't the alleged Christ debated.
Wouldn't the Rabbi's of his life time have been curious and discussed
him in writing ? It just does not make sense.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Contemporary writes alive when JC walked the earth |
06 Dec 2007 04:42:36 AM |
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"Eris" <vithant@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ceeacc3-5e67-498b-8e31-4f4fceb588a6@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
There must have been hundreds. Aren't there written discussions
between the rabbi's of the time? Why isn't the alleged Christ debated.
Wouldn't the Rabbi's of his life time have been curious and discussed
him in writing ? It just does not make sense.
The Jesus story is totally implausible. It is not supported by any solid
objective verifiable evidence. Should we believe in a god for whom there is
NO solid objective evidence? The evidence available is quite the contrary.
It is totally implausible! This Jesus belief is based purely on faith in
totally implausible stories, not factual objective verifiable evidence of
any kind.
The Bibles were written recopied and modified by hundreds of men of unknown
veracity and honesty over a time span of several thousands years. There are
NO ORIGINALS IN EXISTENCE. What ever the originals were have rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. We don't know what the originals said.
The Bibles are nothing more than a mixture of myths, fables, contradictions
and impossible tales. There are 18 different versions alone of the English
Bible interpretations.
The Bibles claim this God supposedly came to earth over 2,000 years ago as a
man named Jesus to save mankind from the sins that God himself created and
to preach his wishes and commands. Archeological evidence indicates 'modern'
man has existed approximately 100,000 years. Why did god wait all those
years to come to earth to preach his word and pay for man's sins (which he
himself created!)?
This all powerful creator of this huge Universe supposedly came to Earth as
a baby in a cold manger, in the middle of winter and was born of a virgin
called Mary. Why would he choose to be born in such an ingenuous way?
Arrogant humans had to make up a myth
about a god arriving from the womb of another human.
If Jesus was supposedly born of a Virgin Mary and she was the wife of
Joseph, why was she still a virgin? Why did the women need to be married to
a mortal in order to give birth to a god? And why couldn't this all powerful
god creator just come to earth in what ever form he chose to create? He
supposedly created the Universe and everything in it!
If he could create Adam instantly from dust and Eve from a rib, why did he
use this slow tortuous means to create himself as a god man on earth???
He supposedly grew up as a normal child and worked as a carpenter as an
adult. There are no details in the Bibles about his younger years. After
about THIRTY YEARS, he supposedly announced to the local inhabitants that
he was Jesus the God savior from heaven to tell them God's wishes and
commands.
There are no significant records of Jesus', (the Christ) actual existence in
the non religious documents of the era. Depending upon which Bible story you
choose, it is claimed he preached his doctrines for one, two or three years.
In any case, why put himself on earth for some thirty inconsequential years
and only use a few of these years to preach his doctrines? And then not use
his omnipotent power to preach to the WHOLE world instead of just a
miniscule part of the world around Jerusalem?
Jesus was baptized. In Christianity, baptism is the sacrament of
regeneration and initiation into the Christian church. According to a theme
of St. Paul the Apostle, baptism is death to a former life and the emergence
of a new person, signified by the conferring of a new name; it is the total
annulment of the sins of one's past, from which one emerges a totally
innocent person. Then why would a 'God Jesus' need to be baptized?
His sermons and teachings only reached a miniscule part of the world
population at that time because he did not speak via the equivalent of
International Radio or TV. IF he was an ALL powerful creator of the world,
he certainly would have the ability to speak to ALL of mankind by means at
least as effective as man. Why did this all powerful god creator wait
100,000 years to come and preach to only a very small segment of the world,
for a period of one two or three years, (depending on which Bible story you
choose) and then leave us without ANY solid objective verifiable evidence of
his existence, his wishes and commands? Why did he not preserve his
teachings in some permanent form for all of mankind in the future? The
Bibles were supposedly written by 56 or more authors of unknown veracity
over a period of thousands of years. There are NO - NADA originals of any of
the Bibles in existence. The originals have all rotted and disappeared
thousands of years ago. They are all hand copies of copies etc. of unknown
actual origin. Why would any omnipotent God, creator of this huge complex
Universe, provide his message in such a sloppy, inaccurate, unreliable,
questionable and confusing manor???
Why did he not use his great omnipotent powers to preach to the WHOLE world
from his Heaven, instead of just preaching to an insignificant portion of
the world?? Why did he leave most of mankind totally in the dark?
He supposedly distributed his word via hand copied books called the Bibles.
Yet NONE of the Bibles were written during his 'claimed' time on earth. The
original Bibles were hand written and hand recopied more than 1500 years
before the invention of the printing press. There is no evidence that Jesus
ever wrote a word. NO ORIGINAL copies of ANY of the Bibles exist. Why did he
not preserve them? The Bibles now in existence are hand copies of copies
etc. of unknown and doubtful veracity. They are largely myths, fables,
hearsay and implausible tales. The four books of the New Testament were
written and copied somewhere between 60 and 200 years AFTER Jesus' supposed
existence. None of the authors could have known him directly. They are all
third person fictional narratives of unknown veracity. Why would a real god,
creator of this huge Universe, not arrange for the creation of clear,
authentic, contemporary and permanent copies of his word?
During his brief adulthood, preaching his word, he is 'claimed' to have
restored site to a few of the blind, restored mobility to a few of the
crippled and restored health to a few of the sick. Why was he so niggardly
about helping the poor, the disabled and the sick? Is this the likely
conduct of an all loving God creator?
After the one, two or three years he preached, (depending on which Bible
story you believe) to only the locals. His preaching only reached a very
small part of the world's population. He did not avail himself of any
communication means as effective as Radio, TV, Telephone or the Internet. He
then allowed himself to be painfully and brutally crucified on a cross
between two criminals to pay for man's sins (which he created). If he died
on the cross to save mankind, why was mankind no better off after this
supposed crucifixion than before? Was all this blood and gore for nothing?!
The Roman courts were models of order and fairness. A man was not condemned
without a trial; he was not handed to the executioner before being found
guilty. And yet we are asked to believe that a totally innocent man was
brought before a Roman court, where Pontius Pilate was Judge; that no charge
of wrongdoing having been brought against him, the Judge declared that he
found him innocent; but the mob shouted, "Crucify him; crucify him!" and to
please the rabble, Pilate commanded that the man whom he had found innocent,
should be delivered to the executioners to be crucified! Also, real
criminals were crucified by being 'tied' to the cross - not nailed! What was
the purpose of all this blood and gore? Why should any REAL god need to
suffer for man's sins??? (which god created)
Why was his life and crucifixion not in any of the numerous historical
documents of the time??? Why is this only in church documents?
If Jesus performed the wonderful miracles the New Testament describes, why
did the people want him crucified? Is it not amazing that a civilized people
would demand that a kind and loving man who went about doing good works, who
preached forgiveness, cleansed the leprous, and raised the dead - that they
could not be appeased until they had brutally crucified the noblest
benefactor of mankind? This makes NO sense at all!
If he could create the Universe and every thing in it, (including sin) why
did he not just forgive man's sins, directly from his heaven, without all
this blood and gore? Three days after he died he supposedly rose from the
dead and returned to his heaven. Why did he wait uncomfortably in a crypt
for three days after his death and internment to return to his magnificent
heaven? Why did he wait 30 years!? How can an immortal god die? Jesus did
not die for our sins. People are still praying to him in his supposed heaven
and there is NO objective verifiable evidence that ANY of these prayers are
answered. There are only the OPINIONS of other of errant men.
What was the logic and purpose of this gruesome and painful killing? Only a
miniscule part of the world's population at the time would be aware of this
claimed sacrifice.
Billions of people today are still not knowledgeable believers of this
highly implausible story. Why did he not preserve a video tape, DVD or other
permanent record of this historic episode? If man is capable of these
devices certainly a god creator should be equally or more proficient.
Why did this God wait over 100,000 years to communicate with only a
minuscule portion of humanity in such a crude and ineffective manner and not
leave any authenticated documents accurately substantiating his appearance?
Why has he failed to communicate further for over 2,000 years?
He supposedly went through this torture and humiliating death to pay for
mans sins which he himself created! Why did he not just wave his wand and
forgive mans sins and skip all the ridiculous blood and gore??? Why did he
create sin in the first place? This should be no problem for a god that
created Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib, and this immense complex
Universe. Why do people supposedly still have the same sins that he died
for?
Why does he encourage or permit Christians to drink his blood and eat his
flesh? Isn't this a pagan ritual?
Why does he continue to allow thousands of greedy self serving men to
deliver his word to his flock in such a vague, inconsistent, contradictory,
and ineffectual manner? There are hundreds of different Christian sects and
beliefs. There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs and
practices. Why does he allow this gross confusion? Why does he not
communicate clearly and DIRECTLY to his entire flock that he is the real god
and all the others are fakes? It would be more responsible and more
effective to eliminate this gross confusion?
If he is the real god, why does he even permit the belief and propagation of
thousands of false gods and false religions?
The Christ tale is obviously pure myth, fable and legend.
The objective evidence is that God did not create man but quite the
contrary; that man created Gods! (Including Jesus!)
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Contemporary writes alive when JC walked the earth |
06 Dec 2007 04:52:50 PM |
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:04:38 -0800 (PST), Eris <vithant@gmail.com>
wrote:
There must have been hundreds. Aren't there written discussions
between the rabbi's of the time? Why isn't the alleged Christ debated.
Wouldn't the Rabbi's of his life time have been curious and discussed
him in writing ? It just does not make sense.
It makes perfect sense, assuming that Jesus is a later fabrication.
Those who falsely claim that there are no extant Jewish Chronicles
from that period, manage to entirely forget the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Contemporary writes alive when JC walked the earth |
06 Dec 2007 06:52:40 PM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:87vgl3pifn481c969ah836ui18n97ibci0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:04:38 -0800 (PST), Eris <vithant@gmail.com>
wrote:
There must have been hundreds. Aren't there written discussions
between the rabbi's of the time? Why isn't the alleged Christ debated.
Wouldn't the Rabbi's of his life time have been curious and discussed
him in writing ? It just does not make sense.
It makes perfect sense, assuming that Jesus is a later fabrication.
Those who falsely claim that there are no extant Jewish Chronicles
from that period, manage to entirely forget the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And out of that mass of primarily religious documents not a single reference
to the Christians nor a single quote from any document forming part of the
canonical New Testament. Not a single word in *opposition* to the new
Judaic/Gentile 'cult' either.
That the 'Christians', or 'the Way', were in their infancy at the time can
be reasonably be assumed. But the fact that they are completely overlooked
and, in effect, dismissed as not being unworthy of spending one's time
frittering about says quite a lot about the Christians at this point in
Jewish history. That is probably due to the fact that the 'Jewish' faction
of Jesus' core believers were quickly superseded by Saul of Tarsus'
*Gentile* believers who effectively nudged the fledgling Jewish followers
right out of their Jewish 'nest' (so to speak.) and thus rather quickly
turned into a primarily 'Gentile religion'. It was Jesus himself, after all,
who proclaimed he was 'sent ONLY unto the lost sheep of the house of
Israel', wasn't it?
Greywolf
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Contemporary writes alive when JC walked the earth |
06 Dec 2007 09:34:47 PM |
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:52:40 -0600, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:87vgl3pifn481c969ah836ui18n97ibci0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:04:38 -0800 (PST), Eris <vithant@gmail.com>
wrote:
There must have been hundreds. Aren't there written discussions
between the rabbi's of the time? Why isn't the alleged Christ debated.
Wouldn't the Rabbi's of his life time have been curious and discussed
him in writing ? It just does not make sense.
It makes perfect sense, assuming that Jesus is a later fabrication.
Those who falsely claim that there are no extant Jewish Chronicles
from that period, manage to entirely forget the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And out of that mass of primarily religious documents not a single reference
to the Christians nor a single quote from any document forming part of the
canonical New Testament. Not a single word in *opposition* to the new
Judaic/Gentile 'cult' either.
Precisely.
Not a single one, nor even a scrap of a hint of a sniff of one!
That the 'Christians', or 'the Way', were in their infancy at the time can
be reasonably be assumed.
Not really.
In fact it is unreasonable to assume anything that is supported by
zero evidence, but that also has the hallmarks of *absense* of
evidence that should have definitely remained.
Complete and utter absense of any evidence, anywhere in the world.
William of Ockham would tell us that it is NOT reasonable to assume
they such a cult was in existence, based on the evidence AND lack of
it.
But the fact that they are completely overlooked
and, in effect, dismissed as not being unworthy of spending one's time
frittering about says quite a lot about the Christians at this point in
Jewish history.
Yes: That they did not exist.
That is probably due to the fact that the 'Jewish' faction
of Jesus' core believers were quickly superseded by Saul of Tarsus'
*Gentile* believers who effectively nudged the fledgling Jewish followers
right out of their Jewish 'nest' (so to speak.) and thus rather quickly
turned into a primarily 'Gentile religion'.
We only have 3rd or 4th century biblical stories to suggest that
scenario.
NOTHING else.
It was Jesus himself, after all,
who proclaimed he was 'sent ONLY unto the lost sheep of the house of
Israel', wasn't it?
A fiction.
Hagrid pronounced himself a wizard, too.
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