| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
21 Mar 2007 08:15:00 PM |
| Object: |
Contraception: Why It's Wrong |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1803121/posts
Contraception: Why It's Wrong
Catholic Culture ^ | 3/15/2007 | Dr. Jeff Mirus
Posted on 03/19/2007 5:46:55 AM PDT by markomalley
The recent debate over contraception between Fr. Thomas Euteneuer of
Human Life International and nationally syndicated talk-show host Sean
Hannity has brought to center stage an issue which most Americans-and
most Catholics-simply do not understand. Let's review what's wrong
with contraception.
The intrinsic moral issue of artificial contraception is a marriage
issue. Contraception has little or no intrinsic moral relevance
outside of marriage. This contributes to the difficulty our culture
has in understanding the problem, because our culture doesn't
understand marriage either. After all, only about half of all couples
are formally married. For this reason, it is perhaps best to start
with what we might call the extrinsic moral issues associated with
contraception, which apply to all sexual relations.
The Consequences of Contraception
I am using the word "extrinsic" to apply to the consequences of
contraception as opposed to its own essential moral character.
Catholics are not consequentialists, and we don't determine the
morality of an act by attempting to foresee all its consequences. But
we do determine the prudence of an act by assessing its potential
consequences. For this reason, it is highly instructive to examine the
extrinsic moral issues associated with contraception.
Even morally neutral acts can have good or bad consequences and should
be selected or avoided accordingly. It is a morally neutral act, for
example, to dam a river, but one wants to be pretty sure of the
consequences before one builds the dam. So too, many moralists have
argued (I believe correctly) that contraception is morally neutral in
itself when considered outside of marriage. But contraception
suppresses the natural outcome of sexual intercourse, and in so doing
it has two immediate and devastating consequences.
First, it engenders a casual attitude toward sexual relations. An
action which, because of the possibility of conceiving a child, makes
demands on the stability of the couple is stripped by contraception of
its long-term meaning. The mutual commitment of a couple implied by
the very nature of this intimate self-giving is now overshadowed by
the fact that the most obvious (though not necessarily the most
important) reason for that commitment has been eliminated. This
clearly contributes to the rise of casual sex, and the rise of casual
sex has enormous implications for psychological and emotional well-
being, personal and public health, and social cohesion.
Second, it shifts the emphasis in sexual relations from fruitfulness
to pleasure. Naturally-speaking, the sexual act finds its full meaning
in both emotional intimacy and the promise of offspring. For human
persons, sex is clearly oriented toward love and the creation of new
life. By eliminating the possibility of new life and the permanent
bonding it demands, contraception reduces the meaning of human
sexuality to pleasure and, at best, a truncated or wounded sort of
commitment. Moreover, if the meaning of human sexuality is primarily a
meaning of pleasure, then any sexual act which brings pleasure is of
equal value. It is no surprise that pornography and homosexuality have
mushroomed, while marriage has declined, since the rise of the
"contraceptive mentality". Abortion too has skyrocketed as a backup
procedure based on the expectation that contracepton should render sex
child-free. All of this, too, is psychologically, emotionally and
physically damaging, as well as destructive of the social order.
The Intrinsic Evil of Contraception
Now all of these evil consequences apply both inside and outside of
marriage. Within marriage, however, there is an intrinsic moral
problem with contraception quite apart from its horrendous
consequences. Outside of marriage, sexual relations are already
disordered. They have no proper ends and so the frustration of these
ends through contraception is intrinsically morally irrelevant.
Outside of marriage, contraception is to be avoided for its
consequences (consequences surely made worse by the difficulty of
psychologically separating contraception from its marital meaning).
But within marriage, the context changes and the act of contraception
itself becomes intrinsically disordered.
Within the context of marriage, the purposes of sexual intercourse are
unitive and procreative (as Pope Paul VI taught in his brilliant and
prophetic encyclical Humanae Vitae). It is worth remembering that
there is no proper context for sexual intercourse apart from marriage;
this is why it is impossible for human persons to psychologically
separate contraception from the marital context. But the point here is
that marriage has certain ends (the procreation of children, the
stability of society, the mutual happiness of the couple, and their
mutual sanctification) and so does sex within marriage. The purposes
of the marital act are the procreation of children and the progressive
unification of the spouses. These two purposes are intimately related,
for it is through marriage that a man and a woman become "two in one
flesh", both through sexual relations and, literally, in their
offspring.
It is intrinsically immoral to frustrate either of these purposes. Let
me repeat this statement. It is immoral to choose deliberately to
frustrate either the unitive or the procreative ends of marital
intercourse. It is immoral to make of your spouse an object of your
pleasure, to coerce your spouse, or to engage in sexual relations in a
manner or under conditions which communicate callousness or contempt.
These things frustrate the unitive purpose. It is also immoral to take
deliberate steps to prevent an otherwise potentially fruitful coupling
from bearing fruit. This frustrates the procreative purpose.
Related Issues
Because it causes so much confusion, it is necessary to state that it
is not intrinsically immoral to choose to engage in sexual relations
with your spouse at times when these relations are not likely to be
fruitful. The moral considerations which govern this decision revolve
around the obligation married couples have to be genuinely open to
children insofar as they can provide for their material well-being and
proper formation. There is nothing in this question of timing that
frustrates the purposes of a particular marriage act.
Statistically, couples who avoid contraception find that their
marriages are strengthened, their happiness increased, and their
health improved. Some of these considerations are topics for another
day. But Fr. Euteneuer is clearly correct and Sean Hannity is clearly
wrong. Contraception is a grave evil within marriage and has grave
consequences not only within marriage but outside of marriage as well.
Both individual couples and society as a whole will mature into deeper
happiness by freeing themselves from the false promises of
contraception, and from its moral lies.
.
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| User: "Rockinghorse Winner" |
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| Title: Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 04:59:46 PM |
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In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Attila had the audacity to say that:
On 17 Aug 2007 18:59:47 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfcbpmj.4dq.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Attila had the audacity to say that:
On 16 Aug 2007 19:59:49 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfc909q.4an.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Rudy Canoza had the audacity to say that:
Only if you're going to assert something as if it's a
verifiable fact. You shouldn't say "'god' exists" if
you can't prove it; you ought to say, "I believe in
'god'" instead.
Technically, you are right. God does not exist as you or I or a tree or a
rock exists. Those latter are *things*. God is not a *thing*. We say God
exists, because there is no other way to say it, but God doesn't exist in
the conventional understanding of that term.
The Bible gives a clue; God says, "I Am that I Am." IOW, God is pure Being.
*Things* - rocks, trees, ideas, people - have being, but they are not Being
itself. God is Being itself.
What is Being? Think about it. We can say what any *thing* is, down to the
most elusive subatomic quark, but we can say nothing at all about Being
itself. There are no words to describe it. It is only known through it's
manifestations: things. But Being itself is beyond our grasp to comprehend.
Try to define Being. You may equate Being with existence (a common error),
but it is evident that the two cannot be the same.
To take an extreme example. The entire universe exists. It *is.* We know
this, because it is present to our natural senses and to our sensitive
instruments. So that is what existence is: presence. But presence is always
presence in the known universe. Whatever is, is because it is present *in
the universe.* But what is the universe present in? Now, when we ask this
question, we edge a little closer to what Being is. Because Being - this
undefineable *thing* that is not a thing (because for a thing to be a thing
it must be present within the context of the universe, remember) is the
condition necessary for the universe to *exist*.
A lot of words to say nothing.
Exactly what i was saying.
Then why did you waste the time, storage, and bandwidth?
And this no-thing, which is Being. gives rise to
beings - things. But Being is not just nil. It is a real phenomena we all
experience though not on a conscious level most of the time. Science has
nothing to say about Being -- it only concerns itself with *beings*, If we
want to learn something about Being, we have to look elsewhere.
There is no elsewhere.
Poetry is a good place to start. Which leads me to the next question. In
your world, where God and religion has to place, what is the role of Poetry?
Does poetry have a role where science and technology can explain everything?
No.
Well, I applaud you for your honesy. In a world in which Being is repressed
and the mind is firmly concentrated on beings, poetry suffers. Because
poetry is diametrically opposed to science, in that it concerns itself with
Being, rather than beings.
But man, in spite of science, still is poetic. It is his nature to be so,
becuase as a being, he is in touch with Being.
*R* *H*
--
If only one of Charles Chaplin's films could be preserved, ``City
Lights'' (1931) would come the closest to representing all the
different notes of his genius. -Roger Ebert
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
18 Aug 2007 02:54:18 AM |
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On 17 Aug 2007 21:59:46 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfcc4a3.4dq.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
Poetry is a good place to start. Which leads me to the next question. In
your world, where God and religion has to place, what is the role of Poetry?
Does poetry have a role where science and technology can explain everything?
No.
Well, I applaud you for your honesy. In a world in which Being is repressed
and the mind is firmly concentrated on beings, poetry suffers. Because
poetry is diametrically opposed to science, in that it concerns itself with
Being, rather than beings.
But man, in spite of science, still is poetic. It is his nature to be so,
becuase as a being, he is in touch with Being.
Not as far as I am concerned. Of all the things that hold no interest
whatsoever for me poetry stands somewhere near the top of the list.
I did not like it in school and I have had no contact with it in the
50 years that have followed.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 05:53:16 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:18:35 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 13 Aug 2007 19:59:58 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfc0sme.49d.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Attila had the audacity to say that:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 07:28:35 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:53:16 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<2c23c3pkd1uvbiub6cl5farm70n1miq9do@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:18:35 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 13 Aug 2007 19:59:58 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfc0sme.49d.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Attila had the audacity to say that:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 09:43:46 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:2c23c3pkd1uvbiub6cl5farm70n1miq9do@4ax.com:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:18:35 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2007 19:59:58 GMT, Rockinghorse Winner
<rockinghorse@deadtime.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<slrnfc0sme.49d.rockinghorse@deadtime.com> wrote:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, Attila had the audacity to
say that:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 11:45:33 AM |
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What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary God,
good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad things will
happen to him.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe in the
same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect other
people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if they rip it
up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
"The only problem with Baptists is that they don't hold them underwater long
enough"
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 01:57:23 PM |
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"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe
in the same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if
they rip it up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I sometimes think of religion as a contageous disease.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 11:54:32 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:23 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe
in the same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if
they rip it up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I sometimes think of religion as a contageous disease.
It is that very thing, most definitely.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
15 Aug 2007 12:19:27 PM |
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Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in
news:jn15c3p3dr3orkd1g5a4grjcgd7rk8572i@4ax.com:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:23 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe
in the same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen
if
they rip it up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I sometimes think of religion as a contageous disease.
It is that very thing, most definitely.
I'm certainly glad that I am immune.
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 04:05:54 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:23 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
What is 'spiritual suicide'?
That would be cutting off God to spite your soul? :)
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe
in the same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if
they rip it up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I sometimes think of religion as a contageous disease.
One to which I have, fortunately, enjoyed a life-long immunity. <G>
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 01:02:11 PM |
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"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
Worse things could happen to him? Like what? He's already a lonely,
lying coward living in a cheap appartment spending hours a day making a
fool of himself. What could possibly be worse than being Dook living
Dook's life? Death, when it comes for Dook, will merely end the pathetic
whining of a sad little man. We'll be better off, and so will he.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Faith, in the religious sense, means to place one's trust in an idea
irrespective of how little evidence there is to support it. It is to
suppress that part of the brain which filters fact from fiction, and to
chose fiction because it feels nicer.
- Alan J. Douglas 1942-2005
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 01:58:31 PM |
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Enkidu <fox_rgfszx@trashmail.net> wrote in
news:Xns998C710E7CEFF255229@130.133.1.4:
"Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:5ie551F3otg04U1@mid.individual.net:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
Worse things could happen to him? Like what? He's already a lonely,
lying coward living in a cheap appartment spending hours a day making
a fool of himself. What could possibly be worse than being Dook
living Dook's life? Death, when it comes for Dook, will merely end
the pathetic whining of a sad little man. We'll be better off, and so
will he.
:o)))
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 03:23:01 PM |
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On 14 Aug 2007 18:02:11 GMT, Enkidu <fox_rgfszx@trashmail.net> wrote:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary
God, good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad
things will happen to him.
Worse things could happen to him? Like what? He's already a lonely,
lying coward living in a cheap appartment spending hours a day making a
fool of himself.
Lonely? Lying coward? Cheap apartment? Haahaahaahaa.
What could possibly be worse than being Dook living
Dook's life?
Living your life is a great answer. I wouldn't trade for it for all the tea in
China.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 11:53:22 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:33 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks...
Hold it right there bud.
That is patently WRONG!
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
16 Aug 2007 10:38:14 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:33 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks...
Hold it right there bud.
That is patently WRONG!
Yeah.
He learned his catechism after public school from nuns who taught, the same
way they learned, by rote. Chances are good that every once in a while a
parish priest would drop by to lend "authority" to what the nuns said.
Parish priests tend to learn most of what the teach in a rather ridged
manner.
Sadly, at least through high school, having Jesuits teach religion classes
is not much better.
Happily, the class was a shorter length one and was only taught two or three
times a week with a *much* more valuable speech class being taught three or
two times a week.
Happily my class reduced a religion teacher to tears one day.
He would have us "take out a half sheet of paper", given us three questions
and answers.
We were supposed to memorize the answers.
Instead when the next day he said "take out a half sheet of paper", we took
out yesterdays Q&A and turned that in.
Had he treated us like high school kids, rather than grade school kids, he
might have got somewhere.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 03:32:12 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:38:14 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Michael Gray wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:33 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
He thinks...
Hold it right there bud.
That is patently WRONG!
Yeah.
He learned his catechism after public school from nuns who taught, the same
way they learned, by rote. Chances are good that every once in a while a
parish priest would drop by to lend "authority" to what the nuns said.
Parish priests tend to learn most of what the teach in a rather ridged
manner.
Sadly, at least through high school, having Jesuits teach religion classes
is not much better.
I find that surprising.
Happily, the class was a shorter length one and was only taught two or three
times a week with a *much* more valuable speech class being taught three or
two times a week.
Happily my class reduced a religion teacher to tears one day.
<Monty Burns>
"Excellent!"
He would have us "take out a half sheet of paper", given us three questions
and answers.
We were supposed to memorize the answers.
Instead when the next day he said "take out a half sheet of paper", we took
out yesterdays Q&A and turned that in.
Had he treated us like high school kids, rather than grade school kids, he
might have got somewhere.
Going backwards, I expect, at least in terms of his remit to infect
you with his meme.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 03:18:37 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:33 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
Heeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyy, there's a new one. A chain letter? Haahaahaa. Like maybe
you are a chain letter atheist wannabe?
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary God,
good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad things will
happen to him.
Sorry, you're just not paying attention. I'm the one that repeats what
Christianitiy says about sorrow and pain - that it comes from sin. I knew that
you didn't understand what we stand for, but that's a new one on me.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe in the
same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect other
people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if they rip it
up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I have support for my beliefs. You have nothing for yours.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 04:19:19 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:d034c39b2ihrc49c5sbugu9vi0kiorf9bn@4ax.com...
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:45:33 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
But no one has proven either a god or a soul even exists.
Not to you anyway.
Not to anyone, puke, not to anyone.
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
Heeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyy, there's a new one. A chain letter? Haahaahaa. Like
maybe
you are a chain letter atheist wannabe?
No I'm not.
There's no such thing as a "Chain Letter" atheist.
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary God,
good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad things will
happen to him.
Sorry, you're just not paying attention. I'm the one that repeats what
Christianitiy says about sorrow and pain - that it comes from sin. I
knew that
you didn't understand what we stand for, but that's a new one on me.
Really?
You mean, you don't believe that if you mumble into your folded hands to
your God then he won't listen?
You don't think that your God rewards the faithful in this world and the
next?
You don't believe in hell for the unbeliever?
You are an interesting Christian- quite different from the ones we usually
come across.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe in
the
same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other
people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if they rip
it
up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I have support for my beliefs. You have nothing for yours.
You have been asked time and time again to show the slightest shred of
support for your beliefs in this forum.
You have consistently failed.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
"The only problem with Baptists is that they don't hold them underwater long
enough"
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 05:40:11 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:19:19 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
Heeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyy, there's a new one. A chain letter? Haahaahaa. Like
maybe
you are a chain letter atheist wannabe?
No I'm not.
There's no such thing as a "Chain Letter" atheist.
Or a chain letter Christian. God speaks, all listen.
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
He thinks that if he does certain things, like worship his imaginary God,
good luck will come his way, and if he doesn't worship it, bad things will
happen to him.
Sorry, you're just not paying attention. I'm the one that repeats what
Christianitiy says about sorrow and pain - that it comes from sin. I
knew that
you didn't understand what we stand for, but that's a new one on me.
Really?
You mean, you don't believe that if you mumble into your folded hands to
your God then he won't listen?
We pray for mercy. We pray for forgiveness. We pray for God's will be done. I
pray for a good medical checkup. I don't pray for a bad checkup to made good.
You don't think that your God rewards the faithful in this world and the
next?
No, not in this world. But the faithful get a chance to go to the next. Without
the faith, it's doubtful, but possible. Only God knows.
You don't believe in hell for the unbeliever?
It's not the unbeliever so much, as his lack-of-faith actions.
You are an interesting Christian- quite different from the ones we usually
come across.
I don't really believe you have any idea what a Christian is.
He thinks that will happen to other people too if they don't believe in
the
same things as he does.
Just like a chain letter, once spread, his mind virus tends to infect
other
people, who like him, end up believing bad things will happen if they rip
it
up or ignore it.
They are encouraged to pass it on to others too, unfortunately.
I have support for my beliefs. You have nothing for yours.
You have been asked time and time again to show the slightest shred of
support for your beliefs in this forum.
You have consistently failed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
14 Aug 2007 06:30:11 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:19:19 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
Duke is what I tend to call a "Chain Letter" Christian.
Heeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyy, there's a new one. A chain letter? Haahaahaa. Like
maybe
you are a chain letter atheist wannabe?
No I'm not.
There's no such thing as a "Chain Letter" atheist.
Or a chain letter Christian. God speaks, all listen.
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
-- cary
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
15 Aug 2007 01:19:47 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Gwen" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 10:27:09 AM |
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On Aug 15, 1:19 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
What makes you think it's a deity's or his son's decision to make? I
don't recall either saying to any of us that it is?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 02:34:29 PM |
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"Gwen" <gwen.bennet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187364429.845503.34150@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 1:19 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will
happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you
giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will
happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know.
That's
up to Jesus to decide.
What makes you think it's a deity's or his son's decision to make? I
don't recall either saying to any of us that it is?
Actually, Gwen, I can see the mistake you're making here...
You're trying to use reason and logic in an argument with duke.
--
Steve O
a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter)
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
"The only problem with Baptists is that they don't hold them underwater long
enough"
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 04:31:40 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:34:29 +0100, "Steve O" <spamhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
What makes you think it's a deity's or his son's decision to make? I
don't recall either saying to any of us that it is?
Actually, Gwen, I can see the mistake you're making here...
You're trying to use reason and logic in an argument with duke.
We aren't arguing, slip off. She sounds like she wants to pretend that God
isn't the God of her life.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
17 Aug 2007 04:29:20 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:27:09 -0000, Gwen <gwen.bennet@hotmail.com> wrote:
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
What makes you think it's a deity's or his son's decision to make? I
don't recall either saying to any of us that it is?
Then you weren't paying attention.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
15 Aug 2007 02:52:15 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:19:47 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
I see your memory isn't any longer than your peter.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
15 Aug 2007 05:56:29 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:52:15 -0400, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:19:47 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
I see your memory isn't any longer than your peter.
Why am I not surprised that you keep trying to look, you little queer.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
16 Aug 2007 04:40:02 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:56:29 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:52:15 -0400, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:19:47 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
I see your memory isn't any longer than your peter.
Why am I not surprised that you keep trying to look, you little queer.
Was Peter a queer as well? Fancy that, the first Pope was a queer
and he did not even start off as a Parish priest.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
16 Aug 2007 05:33:38 PM |
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:40:02 +0100, les_on_usenet
<delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
I see your memory isn't any longer than your peter.
Why am I not surprised that you keep trying to look, you little queer.
Was Peter a queer as well? Fancy that, the first Pope was a queer
and he did not even start off as a Parish priest.
You like to look at men at the urinals, don't you.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: "Chain Letter" Christian ...was Re: Question for duke: Why does god hate amputees? (Re: Contraception: It's Wrong? Why??) |
15 Aug 2007 01:49:54 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:30:11 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Atheists don't go around telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things.
Neither do I, neither do Christians.
"Neither do I, neither do Christians"?
Think you might want to re-phrase that?
Nope.
Hmmm...I realize that the "Duke is no Christian" school of thought is
widespread in this group, but I AM a bit startled to find you being
a member.
In any event, given that every fourth post of yours involves you giggling
over how we're all going to Hell if we don't Get Right With God, I'd say
that entirely qualifies for "telling people that something bad will happen to
them if they don't do certain things".
Wrong, bubba. I never tell you that you're going to hell. I don't know. That's
up to Jesus to decide.
Shall I dig up a few posts where you suggest that atheists are going
to be buggered by Satan for eternity?
-- cary
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