Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Michael Ejercito"
Date: 29 Sep 2006 05:12:38 PM
Object: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation
http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html
Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal
Universe and the Discovery of Creation
The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology. The idea that the universe had existed forever was
discounted, for scientists discovered that it had a beginning. In other
words, they proved scientifically that the universe had been created
from nothing.
Immanuel Kant (1724-1804; above) proposed that the universe was
eternal, a claim that is strongly defended by materialists.
This idea of an eternal universe came to the Western world, along with
materialist philosophy, from classical Greek civilization. It stated
that only matter exists, and that the universe comes from eternity and
goes to eternity. In the Middle Ages, when the Catholic church
dominated Western thought, materialism was forgotten. However, in the
modern period Western scientists and philosophers became consumed with
curiosity about these classical Greek origins and revived an interest
in materialism.
The first person to propose a materialist understanding of the universe
was the renowned German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), even
though he was not a materialist in the philosophical sense of the word.
Kant proposed that the universe was eternal and that every possibility
could be realized only within this eternity. With the coming of the
nineteenth century, it became widely accepted that the universe had no
beginning and that there had been no moment of creation. Adopted
passionately by such dialectical materialists as Marx and Engels, this
idea found its way into the twentieth century.
This idea has always been compatible with atheism, for accepting that
the universe had a beginning would mean that God had created it. Thus
the only way to counter this idea was to claim that the universe was
eternal, even though science did not support such a claim. Georges
Politzer (1903-42), a dogged proponent of this claim, became widely
known as a supporter of materialism and Marxism in the first half of
the twentieth century through his book Principes Fondamentaux de
Philosophie (The Fundamental Principles of Philosophy). Assuming the
"eternal universe" model to be valid, he opposed the idea of creation:
The universe was not a created object. If it were, then it would
have to be created instantaneously by God and brought into existence
from nothing. To admit creation, one has to admit, in the first place,
the existence of a moment when the universe did not exist, and that
something came out of nothingness. This is something to which science
cannot accede.4
In the picture above we see Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1820-95) at
an 1847 meeting in London defending their atheist views.
By supporting the idea of an eternal universe, Politzer thought that
science was on his side. However, very soon thereafter, the fact that
he had alluded to by saying "if it is so, we must accept the existence
of a creator," that is, that the universe had a beginning, was proven.
This proof came as a result of the "Big Bang" theory, perhaps the most
important concept of twentieth-century astronomy.
The Big Bang theory was formulated after a series of discoveries. In
1929, the American astronomer Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) noticed that the
galaxies were continually moving away from each other and that the
universe was expanding. If the flow of time in an expanding universe
were reversed, the whole universe must have come from a single point.
While assessing the validity of Hubble's discovery, astronomers were
faced with the fact that this single point was a "metaphysical" state
of reality in which there was an infinite gravitational attraction with
no mass. Matter and time came into being through the explosion of this
mass-less point. In other words, the universe was created from nothing.
On the one hand, some die-hard materialist astronomers have tried to
resist the Big Bang theory and maintain the idea of an eternal
universe. Arthur Eddington (1882-1944), a renowned materialist
physicist, summed up their view quite well when he said:
"Philosophically, the notion of an abrupt beginning to the present
order of Nature is repugnant to me."5 Despite this repugnance, however,
the Big Bang theory continues to be corroborated by concrete scientific
discoveries. In their observations made in the 1960s, Arno Penzias and
Robert Wilson detected radioactive remains of the explosion (cosmic
background radiation). These observations were verified in the 1990s by
the COBE (Cosmic Background Explorer) satellite.
The materialists' claim that the "universe is eternal" was disproved by
Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) discovery that the universe began from one
point as the result of a great explosion.
Confronted with all of these facts, atheists have been squeezed into a
corner. Anthony Flew, an atheist professor of philosophy at the
University of Reading and author of Atheistic Humanism, makes this
interesting confession:
Notoriously, confession is good for the soul. I will therefore begin by
confessing that the Stratonician atheist has to be embarrassed by the
contemporary cosmological consensus. For it seems that the cosmologists
are providing a scientific proof of what St. Thomas contended could not
be proved philosophically; namely, that the universe had a beginning.
So long as the universe can be comfortably thought of as being not only
without end but also without beginning, it remains easy to urge that
its brute existence, and whatever are found to be its most fundamental
features, should be accepted as the explanatory ultimates. Although I
believe that it remains still correct, it certainly is neither easy nor
comfortable to maintain this position in the face of the Big Bang
story.6
An example of the atheists' reaction to the Big Bang theory is seen in
a 1989 article by John Maddox, editor of Nature, one of the best-known
materialist-scientific journals. In his article, entitled "Down with
the Big Bang," Maddox wrote that the Big Bang is "philosophically
unacceptable," because "creationists and those of similar persuasions
.... have ample justification in the doctrine of the Big Bang." He also
predicted that it "is unlikely to survive the decade ahead."7
However, despite Maddox' hopes, the Big Bang theory continues to gain
credence, and new discoveries continue to prove that the universe was
created.
Some materialists have a relatively logical view of this issue. For
example, the English materialist physicist H. P. Lipton "unwillingly"
accepts the scientific fact of creation. He writes:
I think ... that we must ... admit that the only acceptable explanation
is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it
is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the
experimental evidence supports it.8
Thus, modern astronomy proves and states that time and matter were
brought into being by an eternally powerful Creator, Who is independent
of both of them. The eternal power that created the universe in which
we live is God, the possessor of infinite might, knowledge, and wisdom.
.

User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 02 Oct 2006 05:09:30 PM
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159549958.085798.295270@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html

Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal
Universe and the Discovery of Creation

The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology.

Hahahahahahahaha!! Fucking troll.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
User: "Michael Ejercito"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 02 Oct 2006 08:33:31 PM
Robibnikoff wrote:

"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159549958.085798.295270@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html

Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal
Universe and the Discovery of Creation

The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology.


Hahahahahahahaha!! Fucking troll.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

From Harun Yahya:
Physics and Astronomy: The Collapse of the Idea of A Random Universe
and the Discovery of the Anthropic Principle
A second atheist dogma rendered invalid by twentieth-century
discoveries in astronomy is the idea of a random universe. The view
that all matter in the universe, the heavenly bodies, and the laws that
determine the relationships among them is no more than the purposeless
result of chance has been undermined dramatically.
For the first time since the 1970s, scientists have begun to recognize
that the universe's physical balance is adjusted delicately in favor of
human life. Advances in research have enabled scientists to discover
that the universe's physical, chemical, and biological laws, as well as
such basic forces as gravity and electro-magnetism and even the very
structures of atoms and elements, are all ordered exactly as they have
to be for human life. Western scientists have called this extraordinary
design the "anthropic principle": Every aspect of the universe is
designed with a view to human life.
We may summarize its basic characteristics as follows:
* The speed of the universe's first expansion (the force of the Big
Bang explosion) was exactly the velocity that it had to be. According
to scientists' calculations, if the expansion rate had differed from
its actual value by more than one part in a billion billion, the
universe either would have recollapsed before reaching its present size
or splattered in every direction in a manner that it could never be
reunited. In other words, even at the first moment of its existence
there was a fine calculation of the accuracy of a billion billionth.
* The universe's four physical forces (i.e., gravitational force,
weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and electromagnetic force)
are all at the necessary levels for an ordered universe to emerge and
for life to exist. Even the tiniest variations in these forces (e.g.,
one in 1039 or one in 1028; that is-crudely calculated-one in a billion
billion billion billion), the universe either would be composed only of
radiation or of hydrogen.
* Many other delicate adjustments make Earth ideal for human life:
the size of the Sun, its distance from Earth, water's unique physical
and chemical properties, the wavelength of the sun's rays, the way that
Earth's atmosphere contains the gases necessary for respiration, and
Earth's magnetic field being ideally suited to human life. (For more
information on this topic, see Harun Yahya's The Creation of the
Universe, Al-Attique Publishers: 2001)
In his book, The Symbiotic Universe, George Greenstein gives examples
of the flawless design in the universe.
This delicate balance is among the most striking discoveries of modern
astrophysics. Paul Davies, the well-known astronomer, writes in the
last paragraph of his The Cosmic Blueprint: "The impression of Design
is overwhelming."9
In an article in the journal Nature, the astrophysicist W. Press writes
that "there is a grand design in the Universe that favors the
development of intelligent life."10
Interestingly, the majority of the scientists who have made these
discoveries were materialists who came to this conclusion unwillingly.
They did not undertake their scientific investigations hoping to find a
proof for God's Existence. But most, if not all, of them, despite their
unwillingness, arrived at this conclusion as the only explanation for
the universe's extraordinary design.
In his The Symbiotic Universe, the American astronomer George
Greenstein acknowledges this fact:
How could this possibly have come to pass [that the laws of physics
conform themselves to life]? ... As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency-or, rather
Agency-must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?11
By beginning his question with "Is it possible," Greenstein, an
atheist, tries to ignore the plain fact confronting him. But many
scientists who have approached the question without prejudice
acknowledge that the universe has been created especially for human
life.
God is He who raised up the heavens without any support - you can see
that - and then established Himself firmly on the Throne. He made the
sun and moon subservient, each running for a specified term. He directs
the whole affair. He makes the Signs clear so that hopefully you will
be certain about the meeting with your Lord.(Qur'an, 13:2)
The renowned molecular biologist Michael Denton and his book Nature's
Destiny: How the Laws of Biology Reveal Purpose in the Universe.
Materialism is now being viewed as an erroneous belief outside the
realm of science. The American geneticist Robert Griffiths acknowledges
this when he says: "If we need an atheist for a debate, I go to the
philosophy department. The physics department isn't much use."12
In Nature's Destiny: How the Laws of Biology Reveal Purpose in the
Universe, which examines how physical, chemical, and biological laws
are amazingly calculated in an ''ideal'' way with a view to human
life's requirements, well-known molecular biologist Michael Denton
writes:
The new picture that has emerged in twentieth-century astronomy
presents a dramatic challenge to the presumption which has been
prevalent within scientific circles during most of the past four
centuries: that life is a peripheral and purely contingent phenomenon
in the cosmic scheme.13
In short, the idea of a random universe, perhaps atheism's most basic
pillar, has been proved invalid. Scientists now openly speak of
materialism's collapse.14 God reveals the falsity of this idea in the
Qur'an: "We did not create heaven and Earth and everything between them
to no purpose. That is the opinion of those who disbelieve..." (Qur'an,
38: 27), and science confirmed that truth in the 1970s.
.
User: "Kilmir"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 02 Oct 2006 09:36:18 PM
Michael Ejercito schreef:

Physics and Astronomy: The Collapse of the Idea of A Random Universe
and the Discovery of the Anthropic Principle

<snip>
Erm this one is too easy. The easy example to give the idea how you are
looking at it: Hole in ground, water poured in it, water thinking that
the hole is perfectly adjusted for the shape the water is in.
Yes the universe is "perfect" for us, but that's because we evolved in
this universe. If the univere was different either we wouldn't be here
at all or we would have been in another shape or form.
This argument is hardly something anyone with a working brain would
lose sleep over.
Kilmir
#1944
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 08 Oct 2006 02:10:17 AM
On 2 Oct 2006 14:36:18 -0700, "Kilmir" <Kilmir@gmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1159824978.561521.118220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>


Michael Ejercito schreef:


Physics and Astronomy: The Collapse of the Idea of A Random Universe
and the Discovery of the Anthropic Principle

<snip>

Erm this one is too easy. The easy example to give the idea how you are
looking at it: Hole in ground, water poured in it, water thinking that
the hole is perfectly adjusted for the shape the water is in.
Yes the universe is "perfect" for us, but that's because we evolved in
this universe. If the univere was different either we wouldn't be here
at all or we would have been in another shape or form.

This argument is hardly something anyone with a working brain would
lose sleep over.

Michael has repeatedly demonstrated his complete lack of said organ.
.

User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 02 Oct 2006 09:55:13 PM
On 2 Oct 2006 14:36:18 -0700, "Kilmir" <Kilmir@gmail.com> wrote:


Michael Ejercito schreef:


Physics and Astronomy: The Collapse of the Idea of A Random Universe
and the Discovery of the Anthropic Principle

<snip>

Erm this one is too easy. The easy example to give the idea how you are
looking at it: Hole in ground, water poured in it, water thinking that
the hole is perfectly adjusted for the shape the water is in.
Yes the universe is "perfect" for us, but that's because we evolved in
this universe. If the univere was different either we wouldn't be here
at all or we would have been in another shape or form.

This argument is hardly something anyone with a working brain would
lose sleep over.

Michael, like most theists, is convinced by the flimsiest arguments.
He also can't seem to get his head around the idea that if he had
evidence, he wouldn't need arguments. <G>



Kilmir
#1944

.




User: "ike milligan"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 29 Sep 2006 06:40:26 PM
"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159549958.085798.295270@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html

Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal
Universe and the Discovery of Creation

The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology. The idea that the universe had existed forever was
discounted, for scientists discovered that it had a beginning. In other
words, they proved scientifically that the universe had been created
from nothing.

Not having a beginning, and being created from nothing, are not the same
idea.

Immanuel Kant (1724-1804; above) proposed that the universe was
eternal, a claim that is strongly defended by materialists.

It could be eternal, if a discrete universe exists aas an entity, provided
that it had no beginning in time. However, Time is not a discrete dimension
in and of itself.

This idea of an eternal universe came to the Western world, along with
materialist philosophy, from classical Greek civilization. It stated
that only matter exists, and that the universe comes from eternity and
goes to eternity. In the Middle Ages, when the Catholic church
dominated Western thought, materialism was forgotten. However, in the
modern period Western scientists and philosophers became consumed with
curiosity about these classical Greek origins and revived an interest
in materialism.

The first person to propose a materialist understanding of the universe
was the renowned German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), even
though he was not a materialist in the philosophical sense of the word.
Kant proposed that the universe was eternal and that every possibility
could be realized only within this eternity. With the coming of the
nineteenth century, it became widely accepted that the universe had no
beginning and that there had been no moment of creation. Adopted
passionately by such dialectical materialists as Marx and Engels, this
idea found its way into the twentieth century.

This idea has always been compatible with atheism, for accepting that
the universe had a beginning would mean that God had created it. Thus

I don't see why it makes any difference. And even if you proved the universe
exists and was created by God, atheists wouldn't give a *****, because we
don't believe in that crap that you can't prove anyway. So prove it to
yourself and shut up.

the only way to counter this idea was to claim that the universe was
eternal, even though science did not support such a claim. Georges
Politzer (1903-42), a dogged proponent of this claim, became widely
known as a supporter of materialism and Marxism in the first half of
the twentieth century through his book Principes Fondamentaux de
Philosophie (The Fundamental Principles of Philosophy). Assuming the
"eternal universe" model to be valid, he opposed the idea of creation:

Oh, I see. An ad hominem argument.

The universe was not a created object. If it were, then it would
have to be created instantaneously by God and brought into existence
from nothing. To admit creation, one has to admit, in the first place,
the existence of a moment when the universe did not exist, and that
something came out of nothingness. This is something to which science
cannot accede.4


In the picture above we see Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1820-95) at
an 1847 meeting in London defending their atheist views.

By supporting the idea of an eternal universe, Politzer thought that
science was on his side. However, very soon thereafter, the fact that
he had alluded to by saying "if it is so, we must accept the existence
of a creator," that is, that the universe had a beginning, was proven.
This proof came as a result of the "Big Bang" theory, perhaps the most
important concept of twentieth-century astronomy.

If astronomy can see the "Big Bang" why can't it see God too?
<snip>
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 29 Sep 2006 06:28:11 PM
Michael Ejercito wrote:

http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html

Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal
Universe and the Discovery of Creation

The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology. The idea that the universe had existed forever was
discounted, for scientists discovered that it had a beginning. In other
words, they proved scientifically that the universe had been created
from nothing.

That doesn't mean the universe was created from "nothing," and that
doesn't mean that "god" saw responsible for the initial explosion.
Clearly you (and whoever wrote this) is not up to date with modern
physics.

Immanuel Kant (1724-1804; above) proposed that the universe was
eternal, a claim that is strongly defended by materialists.

A philosopher who lived before the discovery of the background
radiation for the Big Bang and the red shift hardly qualifies as an
authority on cosmology.

This idea of an eternal universe came to the Western world, along with
materialist philosophy, from classical Greek civilization. It stated
that only matter exists, and that the universe comes from eternity and
goes to eternity. In the Middle Ages, when the Catholic church
dominated Western thought, materialism was forgotten. However, in the
modern period Western scientists and philosophers became consumed with
curiosity about these classical Greek origins and revived an interest
in materialism.

Oh great, a history lesson from an ignorant sadist.

The first person to propose a materialist understanding of the universe
was the renowned German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), even
though he was not a materialist in the philosophical sense of the word.
Kant proposed that the universe was eternal and that every possibility
could be realized only within this eternity.

So what? He proposed it and was proven wrong.

With the coming of the
nineteenth century, it became widely accepted that the universe had no
beginning and that there had been no moment of creation. Adopted
passionately by such dialectical materialists as Marx and Engels, this
idea found its way into the twentieth century.

This idea has always been compatible with atheism, for accepting that
the universe had a beginning would mean that God had created it.

That the universe had a beginning is not incompatible with atheism. You
cannot conclude (you did anyway) that god created the universe just
because the universe had a beginning. Your logic is faulty, as always.

Thus
the only way to counter this idea was to claim that the universe was
eternal, even though science did not support such a claim. Georges
Politzer (1903-42), a dogged proponent of this claim, became widely
known as a supporter of materialism and Marxism in the first half of
the twentieth century through his book Principes Fondamentaux de
Philosophie (The Fundamental Principles of Philosophy). Assuming the
"eternal universe" model to be valid, he opposed the idea of creation:

The universe was not a created object. If it were, then it would
have to be created instantaneously by God and brought into existence
from nothing. To admit creation, one has to admit, in the first place,
the existence of a moment when the universe did not exist, and that
something came out of nothingness. This is something to which science
cannot accede.4

Idiot. The laws of physics are better understood now than they were
then. The laws of physics allow for a universe to come into existence,
no god required. It does not matter what people thought in the past,
they didn't have the benefit of modern discovery. You are using appeals
to authority to make this case, unfortunately your authorities have
lost all relevancy. It's like using a Neanderthal's advice on heating
your home.

In the picture above we see Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1820-95) at
an 1847 meeting in London defending their atheist views.

By supporting the idea of an eternal universe, Politzer thought that
science was on his side. However, very soon thereafter, the fact that
he had alluded to by saying "if it is so, we must accept the existence
of a creator," that is, that the universe had a beginning, was proven.
This proof came as a result of the "Big Bang" theory, perhaps the most
important concept of twentieth-century astronomy.

The Big Bang theory was formulated after a series of discoveries. In
1929, the American astronomer Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) noticed that the
galaxies were continually moving away from each other and that the
universe was expanding. If the flow of time in an expanding universe
were reversed, the whole universe must have come from a single point.
While assessing the validity of Hubble's discovery, astronomers were
faced with the fact that this single point was a "metaphysical" state
of reality in which there was an infinite gravitational attraction with
no mass. Matter and time came into being through the explosion of this
mass-less point. In other words, the universe was created from nothing.

Try reading about vaccuum fluctuation before you make an ***** out of
yourself.

On the one hand, some die-hard materialist astronomers have tried to
resist the Big Bang theory and maintain the idea of an eternal
universe. Arthur Eddington (1882-1944), a renowned materialist
physicist, summed up their view quite well when he said:
"Philosophically, the notion of an abrupt beginning to the present
order of Nature is repugnant to me."5 Despite this repugnance, however,
the Big Bang theory continues to be corroborated by concrete scientific
discoveries. In their observations made in the 1960s, Arno Penzias and
Robert Wilson detected radioactive remains of the explosion (cosmic
background radiation). These observations were verified in the 1990s by
the COBE (Cosmic Background Explorer) satellite.

The materialists' claim that the "universe is eternal" was disproved by
Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) discovery that the universe began from one
point as the result of a great explosion.

Confronted with all of these facts, atheists have been squeezed into a
corner. Anthony Flew, an atheist professor of philosophy at the
University of Reading and author of Atheistic Humanism, makes this
interesting confession:

Holy *****, not Anthony Flew again.

Notoriously, confession is good for the soul. I will therefore begin by
confessing that the Stratonician atheist has to be embarrassed by the
contemporary cosmological consensus. For it seems that the cosmologists
are providing a scientific proof of what St. Thomas contended could not
be proved philosophically; namely, that the universe had a beginning.
So long as the universe can be comfortably thought of as being not only
without end but also without beginning, it remains easy to urge that
its brute existence, and whatever are found to be its most fundamental
features, should be accepted as the explanatory ultimates. Although I
believe that it remains still correct, it certainly is neither easy nor
comfortable to maintain this position in the face of the Big Bang
story.6

So some eighty yearold PHILOSOPHER with no background in SCIENCE
committed some faulty logic. Big fucking deal.

An example of the atheists' reaction to the Big Bang theory is seen in
a 1989 article by John Maddox, editor of Nature, one of the best-known
materialist-scientific journals. In his article, entitled "Down with
the Big Bang," Maddox wrote that the Big Bang is "philosophically
unacceptable," because "creationists and those of similar persuasions
... have ample justification in the doctrine of the Big Bang." He also
predicted that it "is unlikely to survive the decade ahead."7
However, despite Maddox' hopes, the Big Bang theory continues to gain
credence, and new discoveries continue to prove that the universe was
created.

No they don't. New discoveries prove the universe had a beginning.
That's different than saying the universe was created. Creation implies
a creator, and there is zero evidence for that.

Some materialists have a relatively logical view of this issue. For
example, the English materialist physicist H. P. Lipton "unwillingly"
accepts the scientific fact of creation. He writes:

I think ... that we must ... admit that the only acceptable explanation
is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it
is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the
experimental evidence supports it.8

That is not a "relatively logical" view,that is downright illogical. No
evidence in nature points to a supernatural deity in any field of
study, astrophysics included.

Thus, modern astronomy proves and states that time and matter were
brought into being by an eternally powerful Creator, Who is independent
of both of them. The eternal power that created the universe in which
we live is God, the possessor of infinite might, knowledge, and wisdom.

That is, as usual, an uneducated, ill-informed, illogical, irrational,
dishonest, fallacious, and spurious piece of writing submitted by
Michael Ejercito, who is a religious sadist of the first order. His
post can be dismissed as *****, as usual.
.

User: "IAAH"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 29 Sep 2006 05:49:36 PM
On 29 Sep 2006 10:12:38 -0700, "Michael Ejercito"
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<1159549958.085798.295270@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:


http://www.riseofislam.com/rise_of_faith_02.html

[snip]


Thus, modern astronomy proves and states that time and matter were
brought into being by an eternally powerful Creator, Who is independent
of both of them. The eternal power that created the universe in which
we live is God, the possessor of infinite might, knowledge, and wisdom.

Garbage. Modern astronomy states no such thing.
.

User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universe and the Discovery of Creation 29 Sep 2006 07:17:05 PM
On 29 Sep 2006 10:12:38 -0700, "Michael Ejercito"
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip idiocy>
You must have worked really hard to get that stupid.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Cosmology: The Collapse of the Concept of An Eternal Universeand the Discovery of Creation 30 Sep 2006 12:12:58 AM
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:12:38 -0700, Michael Ejercito wrote:

The first blow to atheism from twentieth-century science was in the
field of cosmology.

No it wasn't. Still isn't.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
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for everything bad that happened during and after
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