In article <1h01h0184ko74pf5uorkfj1isop0bth09q@4ax.com>,
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 03:56:54 GMT in alt.atheism, Fredric L. Rice
(REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice)) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism



[snip]

Wagner noted on American's Web site the policy clearly states that
someone who is "clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or
offense to other passengers" can be removed from a flight.

So flying naked is ok?

Not if it would cause discomfort or offense to other passengers.

But what if a number of peculiar passengers decided that a passenger who
was normally dressed would cause them discomfort or offense?

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:37:21 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<jose@bellsouth.net.pa> wrote:

"Fredric L. Rice" <REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:10h0nq2dus2vs22@corp.supernews.com...

Couple kicked off Miami-New York flight because of T-shirt

MIAMI - A couple returning home from a Costa Rican vacation was
ejected from an American Airlines flight because the man was wearing a
T-shirt depicting a bare breast.

Oscar Arela and his girlfriend, Tala Tow, were removed from Flight 952
on Saturday after he refused to change the shirt or turn it inside out
at Miami International Airport. The flight left 90 minutes late
without them.

The couple, making a connecting flight from Costa Rica, said nobody on
the earlier flight objected to the shirt and claimed the airline
violated their constitutional right to free speech.

"It's a picture of a man and woman, and the woman's breast is
showing," Tow said. "The flight attendant basically walked up to us
and yelled, 'You have to take off that shirt right now.'"

American spokesman Tim Wagner said Sunday that crew members acted
properly.

"The description I heard was a picture of a graphic of a naked man and
woman performing a sexual act," he said. "We as an airline are in the
service business, and we have the same latitude as a restaurant that
says proper attire is required."

I agree totally.

Tow said four Miami-Dade police officers and three federal security
agents escorted her and Arela off the flight. She said the T-shirt
image was reproduced from a Venezuelan record label.

Wagner said the couple could legally be barred from the flight even
though they committed no crime. The airline gave them a refund. He did
not know if they booked another flight.

"I'd like to figure out how a T-shirt that offends one member of the
crew somehow impacts the safety of the flight or the ability of the
flight to continue to New York," said Howard Simon, executive director
of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. "If they want to
permit this kind of action by flight attendants, then they better have
a clear policy that is announced in advance and made known to
passengers in advance."

Wagner noted on American's Web site the policy clearly states that
someone who is "clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or
offense to other passengers" can be removed from a flight.

I'm with the airline on this one.

I would support their right to have a dress code if it was a standard
code made known to anyone who bought a ticket. I have been a
passenger on many airlines, and I have seen a very wide range of
clothing; much of it would probably offend somebody or other. The
airline's standard is impossibly vague. The passengers had no reason
to expect that they would not be allowed on with such a shirt.

I would support their right to have a dress code if it was a standard
code made known to anyone who bought a ticket. I have been a
passenger on many airlines, and I have seen a very wide range of
clothing; much of it would probably offend somebody or other. The
airline's standard is impossibly vague. The passengers had no reason
to expect that they would not be allowed on with such a shirt.

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:37:21 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<jose@bellsouth.net.pa> wrote:

"Fredric L. Rice" <REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:10h0nq2dus2vs22@corp.supernews.com...

Couple kicked off Miami-New York flight because of T-shirt

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/gen/ap/FL_Improper_Attire.html

MIAMI - A couple returning home from a Costa Rican vacation was
ejected from an American Airlines flight because the man was wearing a
T-shirt depicting a bare breast.

Oscar Arela and his girlfriend, Tala Tow, were removed from Flight 952
on Saturday after he refused to change the shirt or turn it inside out
at Miami International Airport. The flight left 90 minutes late
without them.

The couple, making a connecting flight from Costa Rica, said nobody on
the earlier flight objected to the shirt and claimed the airline
violated their constitutional right to free speech.

"It's a picture of a man and woman, and the woman's breast is
showing," Tow said. "The flight attendant basically walked up to us
and yelled, 'You have to take off that shirt right now.'"

American spokesman Tim Wagner said Sunday that crew members acted
properly.

"The description I heard was a picture of a graphic of a naked man and
woman performing a sexual act," he said. "We as an airline are in the
service business, and we have the same latitude as a restaurant that
says proper attire is required."

I agree totally.

Tow said four Miami-Dade police officers and three federal security
agents escorted her and Arela off the flight. She said the T-shirt
image was reproduced from a Venezuelan record label.

Wagner said the couple could legally be barred from the flight even
though they committed no crime. The airline gave them a refund. He did
not know if they booked another flight.

"I'd like to figure out how a T-shirt that offends one member of the
crew somehow impacts the safety of the flight or the ability of the
flight to continue to New York," said Howard Simon, executive director
of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. "If they want to
permit this kind of action by flight attendants, then they better have
a clear policy that is announced in advance and made known to
passengers in advance."

Wagner noted on American's Web site the policy clearly states that
someone who is "clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or
offense to other passengers" can be removed from a flight.

I'm with the airline on this one.

I would support their right to have a dress code if it was a standard
code made known to anyone who bought a ticket.

nobody wrote:

REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:


Nonsense. Airlines are private businesses, not government. "No shirt
no shoes no service" isn't a violation of free speech. Plus, for
better or worse, the social norm today is that public depiction of sex
and nudity aren't permitted. I don't see how being an ***** for delaying
dozens of fellow passengers for 90 miniutes for a silly t-shirt is
about free speech anyway - there are rules we all don't like at some
point but we abide by them out of respect for others. The airline was
correct and totally within their rights.

Then the government should stop subsidizing them.

As for "social norm" Perhaps lip service is given here in America but most
of the world is not offended by such pictures and admits it.

nobody wrote:

Nonsense. Airlines are private businesses, not government. "No shirt
no shoes no service" isn't a violation of free speech. Plus, for
better or worse, the social norm today is that public depiction of sex
and nudity aren't permitted. I don't see how being an ***** for delaying
dozens of fellow passengers for 90 miniutes for a silly t-shirt is
about free speech anyway - there are rules we all don't like at some
point but we abide by them out of respect for others. The airline was
correct and totally within their rights.

Then the government should stop subsidizing them.

As for "social norm" Perhaps lip service is given here in America but most
of the world is not offended by such pictures and admits it.