Religions > Atheism > Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
06 Jul 2004 12:03:30 AM |
| Object: |
Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans |
From the article:
--------------------------------
Science magazine on July 2nd published an article by Ernst Mayr,
written on his 100th birthday. Mayr is a giant both in evolutionary
theory and in the writing of the history of evolutionary theory. Mayr
reflects that he isn't really clear on when exactly he became an
evolutionist. In the gymnasium he attended evolution was taken for
granted. He received all of his education including his Ph. D. in
Germany. Like many of the world's best evolutionists he wound up
teaching in the U.S.. So why is evolution and creationism still such a
big issue there?
In the early 1900s most industrialized countries implemented mass
public educational systems under central government control. Much of
the motivation involved the need for economies to be internationally
competitive. But in the U.S. there wasn't the same sense of
competitive urgency. Additionally, since the Civil War in the 1860s
"States Rights" issues have had a major base of support in the South.
As a result the U.S. developed an almost completely decentralized
educational system, independently administered by each individual
state. While European countries were developing standardized
nation-wide teaching practices and curriculum standards the U.S. did
not. Creationists have both supported the decentralization as well as
exploited it.
--------------------------------
Read the rest at http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/17796/1.html
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans |
06 Jul 2004 11:31:26 AM |
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(Jason Spaceman) wrote in message news:<b9401f8a.0407052106.339e5a4d@posting.google.com>...
From the article:
--------------------------------
Science magazine on July 2nd published an article by Ernst Mayr,
written on his 100th birthday. Mayr is a giant both in evolutionary
theory and in the writing of the history of evolutionary theory. Mayr
reflects that he isn't really clear on when exactly he became an
evolutionist. In the gymnasium he attended evolution was taken for
granted. He received all of his education including his Ph. D. in
Germany. Like many of the world's best evolutionists he wound up
teaching in the U.S.. So why is evolution and creationism still such a
big issue there?
In the early 1900s most industrialized countries implemented mass
public educational systems under central government control. Much of
the motivation involved the need for economies to be internationally
competitive. But in the U.S. there wasn't the same sense of
competitive urgency. Additionally, since the Civil War in the 1860s
"States Rights" issues have had a major base of support in the South.
As a result the U.S. developed an almost completely decentralized
educational system, independently administered by each individual
state. While European countries were developing standardized
nation-wide teaching practices and curriculum standards the U.S. did
not. Creationists have both supported the decentralization as well as
exploited it.
--------------------------------
Read the rest at http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/17796/1.html
Nationalized education is NOT the answer. The biggest school systems
(ie, Texas, California) have the WORST textbooks and some of the worst
cases of small interest groups wresting control over what goes into
them.
Furthermore, the breaking down of local (ie city/town) control of
schools in Massachusetts and Maine is noticeably leading to
degradation in the quality of the public school education. (In Mass.
it was the stupid, imported-from-Texas-cause-their-schools-are-sooooo-much-better-than-New-England's
MCAS, in Maine it's the "Leave No Child Behind" act which simply does
not account for the needs of rural school districts.) I don't know
about Vermont, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are running into
the same troubles as Maine. (For years they have strived to provide a
decent public school education with very little in the way of funds.)
I know NH messed themselves up, by having a weird revenue system that
broke under the strain of thousands of families moving in in the last
decade or so.
Elementary school education isn't taken too seriously these days. With
social promotion they just go real slow so nobody's left behind, while
everybody else rots. Oh, don't worry, you'll get that in high school,
no need to teach it now. (Like, say, spelling.) Junior highs (7-9)
have become middle schools (5-8), where 10 year old kids are thrown in
with little terrors going through the throes of puberty, which leads
to an environment of hormones and hazing--hardly an educational
Elysian Fields. Senior highs (oh, and good bye trade schools) are just
baby-sitting facilities--just passin' time till they're old enough to
get a job and drop out, or go off to an even better baby-sitting
facility--college.
The quality of a typical American education is horrendous. But don't
worry--we live in a service economy! In fifty years, Americans will be
the window-washers of the world.
-Hypatia
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| User: "dudalb" |
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| Title: Re: Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans |
06 Jul 2004 01:58:11 PM |
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"Nationalized education is NOT the answer. The biggest school systems
(ie, Texas, California) have the WORST textbooks and some of the worst
cases of small interest groups wresting control over what goes into
them.'
I 1000% agree. As much as I dislike the fundies and their attempts to force
their religons into the public schools, Federal Control of Education will
just make things worse.
The federal system of the US is something I have noticied that Euros have
trouble understanding. The idea of local governments being strong enough to
provide a balance to a central government seems to be hard for Europeans to
grasp,since most European contries have overwhelming powerful Central
governments.
That might change, though, with the current debate on how strong the Central
Body of the E.U. should be . A lot of the smaller Euro contries are
concerned about France and Germany...the biggies...running roughshod over
them. Shades of 1789 and the US constitional convention.
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| User: "EjP" |
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| Title: Re: Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand forEuropeans |
07 Jul 2004 09:33:57 AM |
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dudalb wrote:
"Nationalized education is NOT the answer. The biggest school systems
(ie, Texas, California) have the WORST textbooks and some of the worst
cases of small interest groups wresting control over what goes into
them.'
I 1000% agree. As much as I dislike the fundies and their attempts to force
their religons into the public schools, Federal Control of Education will
just make things worse.
The federal system of the US is something I have noticied that Euros have
trouble understanding. The idea of local governments being strong enough to
provide a balance to a central government seems to be hard for Europeans to
grasp,since most European contries have overwhelming powerful Central
governments.
The closest country is Switzerland, where the Cantons retain even more
autonomy in some situations than the States in the US. Like the States,
this occasionally leads to some craziness. For example, the canton
of Appenzell only allowed women to start voting in local elections in
1991, when the federal government intervened.
Still, I don't think there are any Cantons pushing fundamentalism
in the classroom. That seems to be confined to the US and Islamic
regimes.
-E
That might change, though, with the current debate on how strong the Central
Body of the E.U. should be . A lot of the smaller Euro contries are
concerned about France and Germany...the biggies...running roughshod over
them. Shades of 1789 and the US constitional convention.
.
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans |
06 Jul 2004 05:48:06 PM |
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In article <b9401f8a.0407052106.339e5a4d@posting.google.com>,
(Jason Spaceman) wrote:
From the article:
--------------------------------
Science magazine on July 2nd published an article by Ernst Mayr,
written on his 100th birthday.
***
Small nit: Mayr's birthday was yesterday, July 5.
earle
***
Mayr is a giant both in evolutionary
theory and in the writing of the history of evolutionary theory. Mayr
reflects that he isn't really clear on when exactly he became an
evolutionist. In the gymnasium he attended evolution was taken for
granted. He received all of his education including his Ph. D. in
Germany. Like many of the world's best evolutionists he wound up
teaching in the U.S.. So why is evolution and creationism still such a
big issue there?
In the early 1900s most industrialized countries implemented mass
public educational systems under central government control. Much of
the motivation involved the need for economies to be internationally
competitive. But in the U.S. there wasn't the same sense of
competitive urgency. Additionally, since the Civil War in the 1860s
"States Rights" issues have had a major base of support in the South.
As a result the U.S. developed an almost completely decentralized
educational system, independently administered by each individual
state. While European countries were developing standardized
nation-wide teaching practices and curriculum standards the U.S. did
not. Creationists have both supported the decentralization as well as
exploited it.
--------------------------------
Read the rest at http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/17796/1.html
J. Spaceman
--
__
__/\_\
/\_\/_/
\/_/\_\ earle
\/_/ jones
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Creationism and the U.S.: A craziness difficult to understand for Europeans |
06 Jul 2004 06:23:39 PM |
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Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote:
In article <b9401f8a.0407052106.339e5a4d@posting.google.com>,
jspaceman@linuxquestions.net (Jason Spaceman) wrote:
From the article:
--------------------------------
Science magazine on July 2nd published an article by Ernst Mayr,
written on his 100th birthday.
***
Small nit: Mayr's birthday was yesterday, July 5.
He's always been ahead of his time.
--
John Wilkins
john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
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