| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
03 Mar 2006 01:35:51 AM |
| Object: |
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
---
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
By Art Toalston BP News
EL CAJON, Calif. Henry M. Morris, widely regarded as the founder of the
modern creationist movement, died Feb. 25 at the age of 87.
Morris 1961 book, The Genesis Flood, subtitled, The Biblical Record and
Its Scientific Implications, was a cornerstone of the movement. Morris
coauthored the book while serving as head of Virginia Techs civil
engineering department; Old Testament scholar John C. Whitcomb was the
books coauthor.
In 1970, Morris founded the Institute for Creation Research, which
continues to be a leading creationist force, now headed by his sons,
John and Henry III.
Morris had in recent days suffered a series of debilitating small
strokes and died at a San Diego-area convalescent hospital, according to
a report on the website of Answers in Genesis, an organization in the
creationist movement pioneered by Morris.
Morris earned masters and Ph.D. degrees from the University of Minnesota
in 1948 and 1950, respectively, and taught civil engineering at several
universities over the course of two decades before becoming head of
Virginia Techs civil engineering department in 1959.
Morris views were embraced by a relative handful of scientists with
Ph.D.s and by various segments of evangelical Christianity, but harshly
criticized by scientists who embraced evolution.
After The Genesis Flood, Morris penned a steady stream of books,
including Scientific Creationism (1974); The Genesis Record (1976), That
You Might Believe (1978); "What Is Creation Science?" (with Gary Parker,
1982); Men of Science; Men of God (1982); History of Modern Creationism
(1984); The Long War Against God (1989); and Biblical Creationism (1993).
Morris also was at the forefront of a King James Version Defenders Study
Bible (1996).
He believed that the Earth was only several thousand years old, not
millions.
It is impossible to devise a scientific experiment to describe the
creation process, or even to ascertain whether such a process can take
place, he wrote in his book Scientific Creationism. The Creator does not
create at the whim of a scientist.
.... [T]he creation was 'mature' from its birth. It did not have to grow
or develop from simple beginnings. God formed it full-grown in every
respect, including even Adam and Eve as mature individuals when they
were first formed. The whole universe had an 'appearance of age' right
from the start. It could not have been otherwise for true creation to
have taken place. 'Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all
the host of them' (Genesis 2:1).
Kurt Wise, director of Bryan Colleges Center for Origins Research and
Education in Dayton, Tenn., who holds masters and doctorate degrees in
paleontology from Harvard University, said in a statement to Baptist
Press, In a field so often dominated by heated, and sometimes vicious,
conflict, Henry Morris was well known, even in a public debate, for
having a soft-spoken, gentlemanly spirit. He was one of the very few
true men of God I have ever known.
Recounting that Morris has been called The Father of Modern Creationism
primarily because of his many books, which popularized young-age
creationism in the evangelical world, Wise noted, Although this is
appropriate, I believe Henry Morris most deserves this title for
grounding creationism in Scripture. He spent the duration of his life
tenaciously fighting for the supremacy and spread of Gods Word. Let that
be creationisms continuing legacy.
Wise, himself the author of numerous creationism books, predicted that
Morris influence will not soon be forgotten. Henry Morris was trained as
an engineer. But a full spectrum of disciplines are represented by those
of us in creationism today who were influenced and inspired by his
writings....
Henrys death is the end of an era, but its the beginning of another.
Over the years, Henry shared a few of his dreams with me - many of them
unfulfilled in his lifetime. But by standing upon his shoulders, we can
now see and reach the vistas of Henrys dreams. We owe, and will owe,
much to Henry Morris, Wise said.
Among the various points of science concerning the Genesis flood that
Morris pioneered is biblical catastrophism -- that a worldwide flood is
a more plausible way of interpreting geological data than sciences
uniformitarianism theory that sedimentary rock was formed over billions
of years.
Currently at the Institute for Creation Research, which includes a
museum and an accredited graduate school, a team of young-earth
scientists is involved in a project named RATE (Radioisotopes and the
Age of The Earth), examining and challenging radioisotope dating from a
number of geological standpoints. According to a RATE news release, for
example, Diamonds thought to be millions/billions of years old by
evolutionists contain significant levels of catrbon-14. Since carbon-14
decays quickly, none should have been found in the diamonds if the
evolutionary age is correct.
Ken Ham, president of Answers in GenesisUSA, described Morris as one of
my heroes of the faith. He is the man the Lord raised up as the father
of the modern creationist movement. The famous book The Genesis Flood,
coauthored by Dr. Morris and Dr. Whitcomb, was the book the Lord used to
really launch the modern creationist movement around the world.
---
http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Mar06/Art_Mar06_06.h
tml
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
03 Mar 2006 08:38:04 AM |
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In article <jhachmann-811B4A.23355102032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
All theists die, not knowing the truth.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
EL CAJON, Calif. Henry M. Morris, widely regarded as the founder of the
modern creationist movement, died Feb. 25 at the age of 87.
That's what surprised me. Nobody even seemed to notice until almost a
week later. I guess that's some kind of indication of how meager is
actual contribution was, as opposed to his inflated opinion of himself.
Anyway, Morris's brain died decades before that. I can't say that I'm
sorry to see the rest of him go either. Though I will note that his
death is roughly corresponding to the death of the "intelligent design
movement" which just got pummelled after the Dover Disaster. Of course,
Morris himself wasn't even smart enough to jump on the ID bandwagon,
because it wasn't dogmatic and literalist enough for him.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
03 Mar 2006 11:44:18 AM |
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"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e7202b5aabe230c9897f4@news.readfreenews.net...
In article <jhachmann-811B4A.23355102032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
All theists die, not knowing the truth.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
EL CAJON, Calif. Henry M. Morris, widely regarded as the founder of the
modern creationist movement, died Feb. 25 at the age of 87.
That's what surprised me. Nobody even seemed to notice until almost a
week later. I guess that's some kind of indication of how meager is
actual contribution was, as opposed to his inflated opinion of himself.
Anyway, Morris's brain died decades before that. I can't say that I'm
sorry to see the rest of him go either. Though I will note that his
death is roughly corresponding to the death of the "intelligent design
movement" which just got pummelled after the Dover Disaster. Of course,
Morris himself wasn't even smart enough to jump on the ID bandwagon,
because it wasn't dogmatic and literalist enough for him.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
Did the U of M ever try and revoke Morris' PhD or censor him in any other
way?
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
03 Mar 2006 01:48:52 PM |
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In article <Sf%Nf.799864$x96.463633@attbi_s72>, says...
"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e7202b5aabe230c9897f4@news.readfreenews.net...
In article <jhachmann-811B4A.23355102032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
All theists die, not knowing the truth.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
EL CAJON, Calif. Henry M. Morris, widely regarded as the founder of the
modern creationist movement, died Feb. 25 at the age of 87.
That's what surprised me. Nobody even seemed to notice until almost a
week later. I guess that's some kind of indication of how meager is
actual contribution was, as opposed to his inflated opinion of himself.
Anyway, Morris's brain died decades before that. I can't say that I'm
sorry to see the rest of him go either. Though I will note that his
death is roughly corresponding to the death of the "intelligent design
movement" which just got pummelled after the Dover Disaster. Of course,
Morris himself wasn't even smart enough to jump on the ID bandwagon,
because it wasn't dogmatic and literalist enough for him.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
Did the U of M ever try and revoke Morris' PhD or censor him in any other
way?
I haven't heard if they did or not. It's unusual for real universities
to attempt to revoke credentials or censor after the fact. They usually
don't want to admit that they made a mistake in the first place, much
less to draw attention to it. But Morris certainly produced no scholarly
work while in the grip of the mental disorder known as fundamentalist
creationism.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 01:59:17 AM |
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In article <MPG.1e7202b5aabe230c9897f4@news.readfreenews.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <jhachmann-811B4A.23355102032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
All theists die, not knowing the truth.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
EL CAJON, Calif. Henry M. Morris, widely regarded as the founder of the
modern creationist movement, died Feb. 25 at the age of 87.
That's what surprised me. Nobody even seemed to notice until almost a
week later. I guess that's some kind of indication of how meager is
actual contribution was, as opposed to his inflated opinion of himself.
Unless they are trying to infiltrate some school board and get their
nonsense taught as science, no one hears a thing about them. I'm still
waiting for all of their great 'scientific' discoveries that prove their
point. (But I'm not holding my breath.)
Anyway, Morris's brain died decades before that. I can't say that I'm
sorry to see the rest of him go either. Though I will note that his
death is roughly corresponding to the death of the "intelligent design
movement" which just got pummelled after the Dover Disaster. Of course,
Morris himself wasn't even smart enough to jump on the ID bandwagon,
because it wasn't dogmatic and literalist enough for him.
Yeah. HHe was a strict six day creationist. I guess he didn't realize
that the train had left his station a long time ago.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 05:41:16 PM |
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On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
By Art Toalston BP News
[]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 01:34:40 AM |
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In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
By Art Toalston BP News
[]
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 11:39:37 AM |
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On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:34:40 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
Disagree. I have no doubt he knew exactly what he was doing and did it
deliberately for monetary gain as well as for power and control.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 11:58:28 PM |
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In article <gg8m02ljsp1co812f9vh2n6mqd5el9o0h4@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:34:40 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
Disagree. I have no doubt he knew exactly what he was doing and did it
deliberately for monetary gain as well as for power and control.
He was an evil ***** and he was preaching ignorance. I don't know if he
believed his own ***** or not, but that didn't stop him from making
money off it.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
06 Mar 2006 02:29:10 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:58:28 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <gg8m02ljsp1co812f9vh2n6mqd5el9o0h4@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:34:40 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
Disagree. I have no doubt he knew exactly what he was doing and did it
deliberately for monetary gain as well as for power and control.
He was an evil ***** and he was preaching ignorance.
'Preaching.'
I don't know if he believed his own ***** or not, but that didn't stop him from making
money off it.
The former-no, the latter was primary.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 01:19:27 PM |
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On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:34:40 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
..
Christian.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 11:56:43 PM |
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In article <8cem02pof709bgashcloh61pfiabqseu9v@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:34:40 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
In article <kb9k02t8jusommrnqr2ikeav9gp48jifn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
/turning handsprings. the evil *****.
Ignorant evil *****.
.
Christian.
Amen.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
03 Mar 2006 11:26:35 PM |
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On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 01:53:04 AM |
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In article <359i02pdsqa38trv9qbes2kcb3io7cefer@4ax.com>,
satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
LOL! That would be a good one!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 02:32:23 PM |
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In article <jhachmann-9EFFEB.23530403032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
In article <359i02pdsqa38trv9qbes2kcb3io7cefer@4ax.com>,
satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
LOL! That would be a good one!
I just hope that Morris doesn't fossilize. Scientists in the future
might look at his tiny cranium and think that we were all a bunch of
creationist dipshits like him.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 01:40:19 AM |
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In article <MPG.1e73a73f28ee852298981e@news.readfreenews.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <jhachmann-9EFFEB.23530403032006@news.giganews.com>,
jhachmann@sbcglobal.com says...
In article <359i02pdsqa38trv9qbes2kcb3io7cefer@4ax.com>,
satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
LOL! That would be a good one!
I just hope that Morris doesn't fossilize. Scientists in the future
might look at his tiny cranium and think that we were all a bunch of
creationist dipshits like him.
Future anthropologist: "Fascinating hominid subspecies. The cranium
appears to filled with solid bone. How could it function without a
brain? I propose we call the specimen Homo Ignoramus."
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 02:28:50 PM |
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In article <359i02pdsqa38trv9qbes2kcb3io7cefer@4ax.com>,
RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org says...
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
I'm just wondering how they could tell he was dead. Was he more
incoherent than usual?
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
05 Mar 2006 01:35:33 AM |
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In article <MPG.1e73a66edf5005b798981d@news.readfreenews.net>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <359i02pdsqa38trv9qbes2kcb3io7cefer@4ax.com>,
RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org says...
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
I'm just wondering how they could tell he was dead. Was he more
incoherent than usual?
Actually less.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
04 Mar 2006 05:43:01 PM |
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On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:26:35 GMT, satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote
in alt.atheism
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
He did. He gave thanks to evolution.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: AQOTM for March (Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87) |
04 Mar 2006 12:07:36 AM |
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satyr wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
Seconds, *please*! <guffaw>
Bob Dog
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| User: "Robert Schneider" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM for March (Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87) |
04 Mar 2006 08:29:18 AM |
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wrote in news:1141452456.662411.324550
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
satyr wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
Seconds, *please*! <guffaw>
Bob Dog
Seconded!
AA #2149
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM for March (Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87) |
05 Mar 2006 12:59:21 PM |
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In article <2vhOf.6702$S25.1527@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Robert Schneider <spam@sucks.com> wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in news:1141452456.662411.324550
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
satyr wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
Seconds, *please*! <guffaw>
Bob Dog
Seconded!
Recorded.
AA #2149
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "George" |
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| Title: Re: AQOTM for March (Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87) |
05 Mar 2006 01:58:19 PM |
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Robert Schneider wrote:
bg12345@apexmail.com wrote in news:1141452456.662411.324550
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
satyr wrote:
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:35:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
I heard on his death bed he converted to Darwinism.
Seconds, *please*! <guffaw>
Bob Dog
Seconded!
- I - think of it as evolution in action
ROTFL
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
06 Mar 2006 12:01:11 AM |
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johac wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
Aha! But *after* his *****-***** deciples got their asses kicked in
Dover..<g>
http://www.stnews.org/Commentary-2688.htm
---
Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87; upheld Genesis flood
By Art Toalston BP News
snip
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Department of Telepropaganda
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Creationisms Henry M. Morris, dead at 87 |
06 Mar 2006 02:35:41 PM |
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On 5 Mar 2006 22:01:11 -0800, wrote in
alt.atheism
johac wrote:
Too bad he died before he learned the truth.
Aha! But *after* his *****-***** deciples got their asses kicked in
Dover..<g>
Indeed they did! I'm certain there was no rejoycing as 1 thess 5:18
commands them.
http://www.stnews.org/Commentary-2688.htm
Pennock's Dover response
The battle to get intelligent design into school books was lost in
Dover, and it is time for proponents to lay down their swords.
By Robert T. Pennock
(March 6, 2006)
Creationists describe their mission to overturn evolution in military
language, calling it the fundamental dispute of the culture wars. We
recently saw the resolution of one of the most significant battles in
this war: the end of the Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area School District
trial in Pennsylvania.
This was the first case dealing with creationist attempts to introduce
intelligent design into public schools. The Thomas More Law Center,
which defended the school board’s ID policy, calls itself “the sword and
shield for people of faith.” The ID movement itself, led by the
Seattle-based Discovery Institute, wields a different but equally sharp
metaphor — that of ID as a wedge to split the materialist heart of
modern science.
Creationists had been spoiling for this fight since the U.S. Supreme
Court ruled against so-called “creation science” in the 1987 Edwards v.
Aguillard case. The ID “Wedge Strategy” was the brainchild of law
professor Philip Johnson, who convinced young Earth, old Earth and other
creationists to call a truce in their internal battles and to unite
against their common enemy.
The important agreement is that God — not evolution — created the world.
They could save questions about the age of the Earth for after they got
the generic design view into the schools. For 15 years they had been
sharpening their arguments, skirmishing now and then, and preparing for
such an epic showdown.
They were even cocky. ID leader William Dembski publicly wagered a
bottle of single-malt scotch that should it ever go to trial whether ID
could be taught in the public school science classes that it would pass
all constitutional hurdles. Now it was time.
For years, the Discovery Institute had been pushing ID by lobbying
elected officials; publishing legal guides, op-eds and videos; and
offering legal advice. The Dover school board consulted both the
institute and the Thomas More center before it voted for a policy to
include ID. The Thomas More center had scoured the country for a school
board willing to be a test case, pledging their sword and shield to
defend the expected challenge. When it came in the form of a suit by 11
Dover parents, both groups were ready.
The center’s lineup of expert witnesses listed five Discovery Institute
Fellows, including Dembski and Michael Behe, their two most powerful
advocates. The ID movement would have its A-team in the courtroom to
present its argument in the strongest terms. Moreover, their opponents
would be under oath and would be forced to answer the supposedly damning
questions they otherwise purportedly dodged.
Dembski provided Thomas More attorneys with detailed questions that
would squeeze the truth from “the Darwinists.” He called this the “vise
strategy,” illustrating the idea with pictures of heads — including that
of a stuffed Darwin doll — being crushed in vises. To top it off, they
got to argue their case before a Republican judge appointed by President
George Bush. Judge John E. Jones gave them all the time they needed in
the long six-week trial to fully lay out their arguments that ID is not
religion but legitimate science.
So, what happened when the creationists unsheathed their swords and
their wedge in these ideal circumstances? They suffered a rout.
As evidence and expert witness reports were gathered during the
discovery period, it probably became clear that they could not win.
Dembski and two other Discovery Institute experts abandoned the field
just prior to being deposed. At an American Enterprise Institute forum
during the trial, the Thomas More center publicly berated the Discovery
Institute for encouraging school boards to include ID and then
abandoning their defense. This may be unfair, as the institute allowed
its fellows Scott Minnich and Behe — certainly their greatest champion —
to testify and submitted supplemental arguments in an amicus brief.
But the Wedge crumpled. This was not just because the court found that
ID advocates on the school board had lied to disguise the religious
purpose of the ID policy. The judge seriously considered the ID claim
that it is not religion but real science, but he found the arguments
completely unconvincing. The court found that even the defense had to
admit that ID was trying to redefine science. As in earlier creationism
trials, the court ruled that calling something science does not make it
so.
The judge wrote: “[We] have addressed the seminal question of whether ID
is science. We have concluded that it is not.” Moreover, the court found
that ID, like other forms of creationism, is religion. “We conclude that
the religious nature of ID would be readily apparent to an objective
observer, adult or child.”
A long paper trail made these conclusions easy. It made no difference
that they avoided using the “G-word” to name the agent, speaking instead
of the world as designed by a master intellect or a transcendent,
immaterial intelligence. Appealing to such transparent word
substitutions is, as I put it in my testimony, even less persuasive than
if the person who leaked a CIA agent’s identity defended himself by
protesting that “I never said Valerie Plame Wilson. I only said
Ambassador Wilson’s wife.” The court also got to read the Discovery
Institute’s internal Wedge document, which omitted the linguistic fig
leaf and stated their governing goal of replacing materialistic
explanations with “the theistic understanding that nature and human
beings are created by God.”
Besides the Wedge document, there were many other smoking guns. The ID
textbook Of Pandas and People was shown to be a minimally reworded
creation science text. Following the 1987 Supreme Court ruling, a quick
edit of the manuscript draft switched out the words “creationism” and
“creation science” with “intelligent design theory,” and “creation
scientists” with “intelligent design proponents” but left definitions
unchanged. ID, the judge concluded “is creationism re-labeled.” Nor does
simply omitting the words “intelligent design” disguise the concept.
ID’s backers have sought to avoid the scientific scrutiny, which we have
now determined that it cannot withstand, by advocating that the
controversy, but not ID itself, should be taught in science class. This
tactic is at best disingenuous, and at worst a canard.
What has been the response of ID proponents to this humiliating defeat?
The Discovery Institute labeled Jones “an activist judge” with
“delusions of grandeur.” Eagle Forum president Phyllis Schlafly called
him a “false judge” with a “bias for judicial activism” who “stuck the
knife in the backs” of the evangelical Christians who elected the
president who appointed him to the bench. Judge Jones had predicted this
and responded in advance in his opinion:
Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product
of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly
not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the
activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a
national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test
case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and
ultimately unconstitutional policy.
Forgetting his discredited claim that ID is about science, not religion,
Dembski reacted defiantly, saying that “this galvanizes the Christian
community. People I’m talking to say we’re going to be raising a whole
lot more funds now.” Creationists will need the money after this defeat
and not just for the bottle of scotch that Dembski now owes.
The creationists on the board left taxpayers with more than $1 million
in legal costs. Judge Jones called the inclusion of ID a decision of
“breath-taking inanity” that resulted in an “utter waste of monetary and
personal resources.” Dover voters eventually recognized this, and after
the trial they voted out the creationist board members who were up for
reelection. The cost in money and votes ought to make other conservative
school boards and politicians, who might have thought that supporting ID
would help them in the polls, think twice before following the
creationist call to arms again.
Of course, we know that the ID battle cries will be heard again.
Although he acknowledged that the Dover defeat was a setback, Dembski
said it was not ID’s Waterloo: “We can expect agitation for ID and
against evolution to continue. School boards and state legislators may
tread more cautiously, but tread on evolution they will — the culture
war demands it!”
Zealots will never see reason, but let us hope that more pragmatic heads
understand that it is time to lay down their swords and shields and
wedges. The ID battle was lost at Dover. It’s time to study war no more.
Robert T. Pennock is professor of philosophy, computer science and
engineering, and ecology, evolutionary biology and behavior at Michigan
State University in East Lansing, Mich.
/end
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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