Creationist Clowns in Kansas again



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Fredric L. Rice"
Date: 05 May 2005 04:39:45 AM
Object: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again
From The Lawrence Journal-World, 5/4/05:
http://ljworld.com/section/evolution/story/203780
Evolution vs. Creation
Evolution hearings show scope of cultural divisions
By Scott Rothschild, Journal-World
Topeka --
It's being dubbed Scopes II and Evopalooza.
There are concerns that Kansas again will be the butt of late-night
comedians.
The national media are parachuting in.
Opposing sides are setting up information booths, lining up experts,
scheduling press conferences and zipping alerts and documents through
cyberspace.
But for Kansas, it's just another battle in the culture war.
Hearings set to start Thursday on biological evolution are the result
of an ongoing political revolution on the State Board of Education.
For years, the 10-member board received little attention, tending to a
public school system of 450,000 students in 301 districts across the
state.
But starting in the late 1990s, the board became the battleground
between social conservatives and moderates.

In 1999, when science standards were being written, a conservative
majority on the board opted for standards that de-emphasized
evolution.
When the vote was made, then-Gov. Bill Graves issued a one-sentence
statement that said:
"This is a terrible, tragic, embarrassing solution to a problem that
did not exist."
The anti-evolution decision hit a raw nerve in public discourse,
deciding elections, defining candidates and destroying political
careers.
Kansas was ridiculed on late-night television, and the actions of the
board were compared with the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which a
teacher in Tennessee was found guilty of violating state law by
teaching evolution in the classroom.
In 2000, moderates in Kansas took back three seats in elections that
were reported around the world.
The newly seated board put evolution back in the standards, and all
was quiet for a while.
Conservatives recapture board
But without a major issue before the board, conservatives quietly
recaptured control in the next two election cycles, hitting social
buttons with the electorate. In one campaign, an incumbent moderate
Republican was said to be aligned with an atheist organization.
In another, the conservative winner said she wanted to prohibit the
children of illegal aliens from attending public school despite a U.S.
Supreme Court decision that states the children must be educated.
This year, with science standards being updated by a 25-member
committee of scientists and instructors, the new conservative majority
on the board blessed a minority report from the standards committee
that criticizes the foundation of evolution.
The hearings starting Thursday will be conducted by three of the
six-member conservative majority on the State Board of Education.
The hearings will feature numerous witnesses who will testify to the
inadequacy of evolution theory.
The witnesses and writers of the minority report are backed by leading
proponents of an idea that is called intelligent design.
Intelligent design says that there is a master planner behind the
origins of life.
Pro-evolution scientists have boycotted the hearings, saying they
refuse to be drawn into a debate over intelligent design, which they
consider a philosophy or religion and not a scientific theory that can
be tested.
But the scientists will set up an information booth outside the
hearings to contradict the hearing testimony.
News organizations will broadcast coverage worldwide, which has raised
the concern of some that Kansas will again be depicted as a hayseed
state.
"I never like to see Kansas have a black eye in any way," Gov.
Kathleen Sebelius said.
She said the board needed to adopt science standards that would give
students the opportunity to do well on standardized tests "and not
jeopardize the opportunity for Kansas kids to compete."
___________________________________________________________
"The argument that the literal story of Genesis can qualify as science
collapses on three major grounds: the creationists' need to invoke
miracles in order to compress the events of the earth's history into
the biblical span of a few thousand years; their unwillingness to
abandon claims clearly disproved, including the assertion that all
fossils are products of Noah's flood; and their reliance upon
distortion, misquote, half-quote, and citation out of context to
characterize the ideas of their opponents."
Stephen Jay Gould
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
"Fred is replacing Clinton's penis as the rightard's fixation" - mordacpreventor
.

User: "ZenIsWhen"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 05:39:43 PM
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:117jr6dc8t1n4ee@corp.supernews.com...

From The Lawrence Journal-World, 5/4/05:
http://ljworld.com/section/evolution/story/203780

Evolution vs. Creation
Evolution hearings show scope of cultural divisions
By Scott Rothschild, Journal-World

Topeka --

It's being dubbed Scopes II and Evopalooza.

There are concerns that Kansas again will be the butt of late-night
comedians.

The national media are parachuting in.

Opposing sides are setting up information booths, lining up experts,
scheduling press conferences and zipping alerts and documents through
cyberspace.

But for Kansas, it's just another battle in the culture war.

Hearings set to start Thursday on biological evolution are the result
of an ongoing political revolution on the State Board of Education.

For years, the 10-member board received little attention, tending to a
public school system of 450,000 students in 301 districts across the
state.

But starting in the late 1990s, the board became the battleground
between social conservatives and moderates.

You mean the battle ground between reality/science and insane religious
fundamentalism!!!

In 1999, when science standards were being written, a conservative
majority on the board opted for standards that de-emphasized
evolution.

When the vote was made, then-Gov. Bill Graves issued a one-sentence
statement that said:

"This is a terrible, tragic, embarrassing solution to a problem that
did not exist."

The anti-evolution decision hit a raw nerve in public discourse,
deciding elections, defining candidates and destroying political
careers.

Kansas was ridiculed on late-night television, and the actions of the
board were compared with the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which a
teacher in Tennessee was found guilty of violating state law by
teaching evolution in the classroom.

In 2000, moderates in Kansas took back three seats in elections that
were reported around the world.

The newly seated board put evolution back in the standards, and all
was quiet for a while.

Conservatives recapture board

But without a major issue before the board, conservatives quietly
recaptured control in the next two election cycles, hitting social
buttons with the electorate. In one campaign, an incumbent moderate
Republican was said to be aligned with an atheist organization.

In another, the conservative winner said she wanted to prohibit the
children of illegal aliens from attending public school despite a U.S.
Supreme Court decision that states the children must be educated.

This year, with science standards being updated by a 25-member
committee of scientists and instructors, the new conservative majority
on the board blessed a minority report from the standards committee
that criticizes the foundation of evolution.

The hearings starting Thursday will be conducted by three of the
six-member conservative majority on the State Board of Education.

The hearings will feature numerous witnesses who will testify to the
inadequacy of evolution theory.

The witnesses and writers of the minority report are backed by leading
proponents of an idea that is called intelligent design.

Intelligent design says that there is a master planner behind the
origins of life.

Pro-evolution scientists have boycotted the hearings, saying they
refuse to be drawn into a debate over intelligent design, which they
consider a philosophy or religion and not a scientific theory that can
be tested.

But the scientists will set up an information booth outside the
hearings to contradict the hearing testimony.

News organizations will broadcast coverage worldwide, which has raised
the concern of some that Kansas will again be depicted as a hayseed
state.

"I never like to see Kansas have a black eye in any way," Gov.
Kathleen Sebelius said.

She said the board needed to adopt science standards that would give
students the opportunity to do well on standardized tests "and not
jeopardize the opportunity for Kansas kids to compete."

___________________________________________________________

"The argument that the literal story of Genesis can qualify as science
collapses on three major grounds: the creationists' need to invoke
miracles in order to compress the events of the earth's history into
the biblical span of a few thousand years; their unwillingness to
abandon claims clearly disproved, including the assertion that all
fossils are products of Noah's flood; and their reliance upon
distortion, misquote, half-quote, and citation out of context to
characterize the ideas of their opponents."


Stephen Jay Gould

---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
"Fred is replacing Clinton's penis as the rightard's fixation" -

mordacpreventor


.
User: "skyeyes"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 06:14:45 PM
ZenIsWhen wrote:

You mean the battle ground between reality/science and insane
religious fundamentalism!!!

Like I'm sure you've already concluded, Zen, the argument isn't really
about evolution. It's about salvation. The fundies can't get to
salvation by wading through evolution, the way the Catlicks and
"liberal" protestants can. So they have to change our science classes
to cater to their theological requirements.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 09:51:22 AM
All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.
--
==============================
Paul J. Chiasson
http://chefpaul.stsams.org/
chefpaul@chefpaul.stsams.org
paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca
==============================
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:117jr6dc8t1n4ee@corp.supernews.com...

From The Lawrence Journal-World, 5/4/05:
http://ljworld.com/section/evolution/story/203780

Evolution vs. Creation
Evolution hearings show scope of cultural divisions
By Scott Rothschild, Journal-World

Topeka --

It's being dubbed Scopes II and Evopalooza.

There are concerns that Kansas again will be the butt of
late-night
comedians.

The national media are parachuting in.

Opposing sides are setting up information booths, lining up
experts,
scheduling press conferences and zipping alerts and documents
through
cyberspace.

But for Kansas, it's just another battle in the culture war.

Hearings set to start Thursday on biological evolution are the
result
of an ongoing political revolution on the State Board of
Education.

For years, the 10-member board received little attention,
tending to a
public school system of 450,000 students in 301 districts
across the
state.

But starting in the late 1990s, the board became the
battleground
between social conservatives and moderates.

In 1999, when science standards were being written, a
conservative
majority on the board opted for standards that de-emphasized
evolution.

When the vote was made, then-Gov. Bill Graves issued a
one-sentence
statement that said:

"This is a terrible, tragic, embarrassing solution to a problem
that
did not exist."

The anti-evolution decision hit a raw nerve in public
discourse,
deciding elections, defining candidates and destroying
political
careers.

Kansas was ridiculed on late-night television, and the actions
of the
board were compared with the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which
a
teacher in Tennessee was found guilty of violating state law by
teaching evolution in the classroom.

In 2000, moderates in Kansas took back three seats in elections
that
were reported around the world.

The newly seated board put evolution back in the standards, and
all
was quiet for a while.

Conservatives recapture board

But without a major issue before the board, conservatives
quietly
recaptured control in the next two election cycles, hitting
social
buttons with the electorate. In one campaign, an incumbent
moderate
Republican was said to be aligned with an atheist organization.

In another, the conservative winner said she wanted to prohibit
the
children of illegal aliens from attending public school despite
a U.S.
Supreme Court decision that states the children must be
educated.

This year, with science standards being updated by a 25-member
committee of scientists and instructors, the new conservative
majority
on the board blessed a minority report from the standards
committee
that criticizes the foundation of evolution.

The hearings starting Thursday will be conducted by three of
the
six-member conservative majority on the State Board of
Education.

The hearings will feature numerous witnesses who will testify
to the
inadequacy of evolution theory.

The witnesses and writers of the minority report are backed by
leading
proponents of an idea that is called intelligent design.

Intelligent design says that there is a master planner behind
the
origins of life.

Pro-evolution scientists have boycotted the hearings, saying
they
refuse to be drawn into a debate over intelligent design, which
they
consider a philosophy or religion and not a scientific theory
that can
be tested.

But the scientists will set up an information booth outside the
hearings to contradict the hearing testimony.

News organizations will broadcast coverage worldwide, which has
raised
the concern of some that Kansas will again be depicted as a
hayseed
state.

"I never like to see Kansas have a black eye in any way," Gov.
Kathleen Sebelius said.

She said the board needed to adopt science standards that would
give
students the opportunity to do well on standardized tests "and
not
jeopardize the opportunity for Kansas kids to compete."

___________________________________________________________

"The argument that the literal story of Genesis can qualify as
science
collapses on three major grounds: the creationists' need to
invoke
miracles in order to compress the events of the earth's history
into
the biblical span of a few thousand years; their unwillingness
to
abandon claims clearly disproved, including the assertion that
all
fossils are products of Noah's flood; and their reliance upon
distortion, misquote, half-quote, and citation out of context
to
characterize the ideas of their opponents."


Stephen Jay Gould

---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
"Fred is replacing Clinton's penis as the rightard's
fixation" - mordacpreventor

.
User: "RobH"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 11:48:27 AM
<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.

It's just sad. America is going backwards.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 12:31:13 PM
"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.

How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up, religion was
private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in the northeast. I
don't know. It sickens me the way things are going these days. Oh well -
Time to move to Europe! :)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
User: "RobH"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 02:05:32 PM
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net:


"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa- nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up,
religion was private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in
the northeast. I don't know. It sickens me the way things are going
these days. Oh well - Time to move to Europe! :)

I am an American. Live in Texas. You can lose your job down here if
people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies. When I worked at Texas Instruments they had a
bible club that would meet at lunch to discuss scripture, those that
attended and didn't attend were noted. About as bad as when I worked for
the University of Oklahoma and I had to sign a document saying I was not
a member of the communist party.
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 02:09:42 PM
"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D8F9177FBARobH@24.93.44.119...

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net:


"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa- nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up,
religion was private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in
the northeast. I don't know. It sickens me the way things are going
these days. Oh well - Time to move to Europe! :)


I am an American. Live in Texas.

No, thank you! ;)
You can lose your job down here if

people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies.

Yikes! That's awful. I work for a very small company and there's actually
quite a bit of religious diversity here. I'm the resident gothic heathen
spooky chick and everyone know it - and doesn't have a problem with it
either.
When I worked at Texas Instruments they had a

bible club that would meet at lunch to discuss scripture, those that
attended and didn't attend were noted.

Wow, I couldn't imagine :(
About as bad as when I worked for

the University of Oklahoma and I had to sign a document saying I was not
a member of the communist party.

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 02:35:41 PM
On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism


"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D8F9177FBARobH@24.93.44.119...

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net:


"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa- nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up,
religion was private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in
the northeast. I don't know. It sickens me the way things are going
these days. Oh well - Time to move to Europe! :)


I am an American. Live in Texas.


No, thank you! ;)

You can lose your job down here if

people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies.


Yikes! That's awful. I work for a very small company and there's actually
quite a bit of religious diversity here. I'm the resident gothic heathen
spooky chick and everyone know it - and doesn't have a problem with it
either.

When I worked at Texas Instruments they had a

bible club that would meet at lunch to discuss scripture, those that
attended and didn't attend were noted.


Wow, I couldn't imagine :(

About as bad as when I worked for

the University of Oklahoma and I had to sign a document saying I was not
a member of the communist party.


Really! That must have been a while ago, no?

When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:
Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?
I really wonder how many people tick "yes".
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 02:46:25 PM
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:jmsk71pc4erdoetssi1811lm01smpklkb6@4ax.com...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

snip

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?


When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?

Oh my goodness, I had no idea.

I really wonder how many people tick "yes".

No one with brains, I'm sure.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 03:14:59 PM
On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:46:25 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism


"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:jmsk71pc4erdoetssi1811lm01smpklkb6@4ax.com...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

snip

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?


When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?


Oh my goodness, I had no idea.

Just as well. If you had to apply for a visa to reside your own
country it'd probably be a very bad sign!

I really wonder how many people tick "yes".


No one with brains, I'm sure.

They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.
.
User: "Siobhan Burke"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 07 May 2005 06:17:29 AM
In article <rmuk7192ni2lkct9rkn0vksed2ke904ek2@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:46:25 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism




"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:jmsk71pc4erdoetssi1811lm01smpklkb6@4ax.com...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

snip

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?


When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?


Oh my goodness, I had no idea.


Just as well. If you had to apply for a visa to reside your own
country it'd probably be a very bad sign!

I really wonder how many people tick "yes".


No one with brains, I'm sure.


They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.

My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...
--
Siobhan - a.a. #2201
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net
Drop CARRIER to email
"But as a general rule, when things look bad there's always some
***** who can make them worse." -- Terry Pratchett
.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 07 May 2005 06:36:47 AM
On Sat, 07 May 2005 11:17:29 GMT in alt.atheism, Siobhan Burke
(Siobhan Burke <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism

In article <rmuk7192ni2lkct9rkn0vksed2ke904ek2@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:46:25 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism




"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:jmsk71pc4erdoetssi1811lm01smpklkb6@4ax.com...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

snip

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?


When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?


Oh my goodness, I had no idea.


Just as well. If you had to apply for a visa to reside your own
country it'd probably be a very bad sign!

I really wonder how many people tick "yes".


No one with brains, I'm sure.


They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.


My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...

Clearly he's a *very* brave man!
.
User: "Siobhan Burke"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 10 May 2005 06:20:49 AM
In article <t1ap7110976dc3376s3epr7b0ai3bdtabe@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...



On Sat, 07 May 2005 11:17:29 GMT in alt.atheism, Siobhan Burke
(Siobhan Burke <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism



In article <rmuk7192ni2lkct9rkn0vksed2ke904ek2@4ax.com>,
autodelete@city-of-dis.com says...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:46:25 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism




"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:jmsk71pc4erdoetssi1811lm01smpklkb6@4ax.com...



On Thu, 5 May 2005 15:09:42 -0400 in alt.atheism, Robibnikoff
("Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

snip

Really! That must have been a while ago, no?


When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?


Oh my goodness, I had no idea.


Just as well. If you had to apply for a visa to reside your own
country it'd probably be a very bad sign!

I really wonder how many people tick "yes".


No one with brains, I'm sure.


They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.


My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...


Clearly he's a *very* brave man!


At least a *wiser* man, now. :)
--
Siobhan - a.a. #2201
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net
Drop CARRIER to email
"But as a general rule, when things look bad there's always some
***** who can make them worse." -- Terry Pratchett
.

User: "James"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 07 May 2005 11:19:22 AM
Therion Ware wrote:


On Sat, 07 May 2005 11:17:29 GMT in alt.atheism, Siobhan Burke
(Siobhan Burke <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism

They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.


My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...



Clearly he's a *very* brave man!

The only sure things in life are death, taxes, and the fact that you do
NOT joke with the border guard.
--
James B, master of the tri-pronged scrotal mount
aa #944
"All that belongs to human understanding, in this
deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical,
or at least cautious; and not to admit of any
hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which
is supported by no appearance of probability."
-David Hume
.
User: "Siobhan Burke"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 10 May 2005 06:20:47 AM
In article <117pqk21o1r3697@corp.supernews.com>,
shiv_@hotmail.com says...

Therion Ware wrote:


On Sat, 07 May 2005 11:17:29 GMT in alt.atheism, Siobhan Burke
(Siobhan Burke <siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism

They used to ask "do you have any intention of overthrowing the
government of the united states by force of arms". To which the
traditional answer was "sole purpose of visit" thus giving the
legendry sense of humour found in immigration officials a good work
out.


My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...



Clearly he's a *very* brave man!


The only sure things in life are death, taxes, and the fact that you do
NOT joke with the border guard.

Yep. And some lucky people can figure that out before the
words actually leave their mouths. :)
--
Siobhan - a.a. #2201
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net
Drop CARRIER to email
"But as a general rule, when things look bad there's always some
***** who can make them worse." -- Terry Pratchett
.



User: "The Great Hairy One"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 07 May 2005 10:43:41 PM
In article <MPG.1ce66daad9f86107989819@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net says...

My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Now that's funny!
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
User: "Siobhan Burke"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 10 May 2005 06:20:48 AM
In article <MPG.1ce835f56a084f6798990a@freenews.iinet.net.au>,
the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com says...

In article <MPG.1ce66daad9f86107989819@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net says...

My husband (long before I met him, BTW) once told some border
guards that the handcuffs they found in his luggage were for
"Kinky sex" then spent the worst three hours of his life trying
to explain the concept of "joke" to them...


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Now that's funny!


Oh, yeah, it's funny *now*... :)
--
Siobhan - a.a. #2201
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net
Drop CARRIER to email
"But as a general rule, when things look bad there's always some
***** who can make them worse." -- Terry Pratchett
.
User: "The Great Hairy One"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 10 May 2005 07:20:13 AM
In article <MPG.1cea621d3d0a6cc4989822@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net says...

Oh, yeah, it's funny *now*... :)

Huh, I had a mate who went through the Nambian border once. He still
walks funny.
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 10 May 2005 11:39:00 PM
On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:20:13 +1000, The Great Hairy One
<the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote:

In article <MPG.1cea621d3d0a6cc4989822@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
siobhan.burke@CARRIERatt.net says...

Oh, yeah, it's funny *now*... :)


Huh, I had a mate who went through the Nambian border once. He still
walks funny.

Broke a leg or two?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
User: "The Great Hairy One"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 11 May 2005 04:08:54 PM
In article <n23381lhoekpkdht6gjb6q3jeqaa9j542a@4ax.com>,

says...

Broke a leg or two?

Um, no.
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 12 May 2005 01:37:14 PM
On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:08:54 +1000, The Great Hairy One
<the.great.hairy@GEEmail.com> wrote:

In article <n23381lhoekpkdht6gjb6q3jeqaa9j542a@4ax.com>,


says...

Broke a leg or two?


Um, no.

Oh. (I was trying to be optimistic)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.









User: ""

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 06 May 2005 11:25:33 AM
Therion Ware wrote:
<snip>

When you apply for a US visa, they ask, amongst other things:

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control
violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful
purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist
organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?
Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi
government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?

From the application for a work permit in Canada:
"In periods of either peace or war, have you ever been involved in the
commission of a war crime or crime against humanity, such as: willful
killing, torture, attacks upon, enslavement, starvation or other
inhumane acts committed against civilians or prisoners of war; or
deportation of civilians?"
Questions of this kind are not unusual. The point is not to get a
truthful answer, but to get a legal reason to revoke the visa if they
find out someone lied, even if there is no other way to prosecute the
individual.
Law works in mysterious ways...
j.m.
#1491
.


User: "RobH"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 02:15:55 PM

About as bad as when I worked for

the University of Oklahoma and I had to sign a document saying I was
not a member of the communist party.


Really! That must have been a while ago, no?

Yes I'm old, the 70's. But things aren't getting any better in Oklahoma. I
wouldn't be surprised if that requirement is still there. They are complete
religious loons there. Sometime do some research on their two U.S.
senators, they are completely out to lunch.
.

User: "nJb"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 06 May 2005 11:02:37 PM
Robibnikoff wrote:

"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D8F9177FBARobH@24.93.44.119...

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in
news:3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net:


"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa- nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:


All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up,
religion was private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in
the northeast. I don't know. It sickens me the way things are going
these days. Oh well - Time to move to Europe! :)


I am an American. Live in Texas.



No, thank you! ;)

You can lose your job down here if

people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies.



Yikes! That's awful. I work for a very small company and there's actually
quite a bit of religious diversity here. I'm the resident gothic heathen
spooky chick and everyone know it - and doesn't have a problem with it
either.

Every year I ask Santa for a gothic heathen spooky chick. I'm beginning
to believe there's no Santa.
Jack
.


User: "nJb"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 06 May 2005 11:05:42 PM
RobH wrote:

I am an American. Live in Texas. You can lose your job down here if
people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies. When I worked at Texas Instruments they had a
bible club that would meet at lunch to discuss scripture, those that
attended and didn't attend were noted.

Sounds like a hostile work environment. Smells like money to me.
Jack
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 09 May 2005 06:26:13 PM
On Fri, 06 May 2005 22:05:42 -0600, nJb <none@nowhere.com> wrote:

RobH wrote:


I am an American. Live in Texas. You can lose your job down here if
people find out your an atheist or never see another promotion. I'm
talking big companies. When I worked at Texas Instruments they had a
bible club that would meet at lunch to discuss scripture, those that
attended and didn't attend were noted.


Sounds like a hostile work environment.

Texas is a hostile work environment along with other insane states.

Smells like money to me.

From the victims wallet/purse to the perps.

Jack

--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.



User: "johac"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 06 May 2005 01:24:29 AM
In article <3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up, religion was
private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in the northeast. I
don't know. It sickens me the way things are going these days. Oh well -
Time to move to Europe! :)

Given the growing anti-science attitudes in the US, if I were at the
beginning of my career, instead of near the end, I would surely consider
the same.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 09 May 2005 06:29:25 PM
On Thu, 05 May 2005 23:24:29 -0700, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net>,
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.


How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up, religion was
private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in the northeast. I
don't know. It sickens me the way things are going these days. Oh well -
Time to move to Europe! :)


Given the growing anti-science attitudes in the US, if I were at the
beginning of my career, instead of near the end, I would surely consider
the same.

With my disabilities, I'm stuck.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.


User: "The Great Hairy One"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 06 May 2005 11:45:19 PM
In article <3dv3inFbjl5U1@individual.net>,

says...

How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up, religion was
private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in the northeast. I
don't know. It sickens me the way things are going these days. Oh well -
Time to move to Europe! :)

You can move down here to Oz if you want! Lovely place. Never mind the
spiders, snakes, jellyfish or crocs.
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.

User: "James"

Title: Re: Creationist Clowns in Kansas again 05 May 2005 01:48:55 PM
Robibnikoff wrote:

"RobH" <Rob@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964D784DBD77BRobH@24.93.44.119...

<paul.chiasson@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in news:Kpqee.8352$Ph4.230921@ursa-
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:


All I can say is: Thank God that I'm a Canadian. We might
freeze our arses off in winter (nb: I said winter), but we have
a sense of proportion about religion staying in the private and
personal realm. More often than not, Americans tend to come out
looking like our frozen arses.


It's just sad. America is going backwards.



How do you think I feel? I live here. When I was growing up, religion was
private and personal. Maybe that's because I grew up in the northeast. I
don't know. It sickens me the way things are going these days. Oh well -
Time to move to Europe! :)

Go north. We have great beer.
--
James B, master of the tri-pronged scrotal mount
aa #944
"All that belongs to human understanding, in this
deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical,
or at least cautious; and not to admit of any
hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which
is supported by no appearance of probability."
-David Hume
.





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