| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2005 05:34:03 PM |
| Object: |
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
Both groups of people see the same evidence, but have different
interpretations, Lisle explained.
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
Lisle is a speaker with a worldwide ministry called "Answers in
Genesis." The organization started about 20 years ago in
Australia, when people saw their churches struggling and often
compromising their biblical integrity in the face of the
ever-increasing attacks from those hostile to Christianity.
They realized that most Christians were not equipped to provide
answers to a doubting world in a so-called age of science. In
response, they began speaking on creation/evolution issues to help
equip the church to answer the skeptics, and encouraging
Christians to trust God's word.
As a scientist, Lisle uses his expertise to make try to defend the
idea of creation. One of the simplest defenses he offered Saturday
was what he described as information science, the idea that
information always goes back to an intelligent source.
"There's no known law of nature that can cause information to
originate by itself," said Lisle. "In the beginning, God created
the DNA. That's what the Bible says."
And he went on to use genetics, which is how he says an organism
changes with time, to argue the idea of evolution.
"If evolution is true," said Lisle, "then we're descended from
microbes, like an amoeba, a single-cell organism. At some point,
the information in our DNA had to increase. Evolution is about the
increase of information."
Lisle said all processes in nature reduce information in DNA. He
gave the example of having two dogs, one with long fur and one
with short hair. The offspring of those dogs could have short fur,
long fur, or medium fur.
"Now suppose there's an ice age. The dogs with the short fur will
tend to be eliminated because they're not as insulated, and the
dogs with the medium fur, likewise," explained Lisle. "The dogs
best able to survive in the environment will be the dogs with the
long fur."
Before long, said Lisle, the only dogs left would have long hair
and their offspring also would have long hair.
"This is a great example of survival of the fittest or natural
selection. It's not evolution because have we gained information?"
asked Lisle. "Not at all. In fact, we've lost information. If
there's a heat wave, are these dogs going to go back to having
short hair? Not at all because they've lost the gene for short
hair."
Evolutionists, said Lisle, might question this idea pointing out
that a mutation, or a copying mistake with the DNA could cause a
case like this, which he said is a valid point. In this case, DNA
information doesn't die off, but isn't properly copied.
"Suppose you have two dogs with the information for long legs,"
said Lisle, "and there's a mutation that occurs and you end up
with a dog that has short legs."
This isn't a case of evolution, the doctor argued. Though there
are people who breed dogs with qualities such as these, a dog like
that would likely not do as well in nature.
"Mutations don't help evolution," said Lisle. "They remove
information just as natural selection does. It's the opposite of
evolution. Information is being reduced."
This process, he explained, also couldn't change a dog into a cat.
"A cat has different information, you can't change the information
by deleting it," he said.
While there are many other example out there as to why the idea of
evolution doesn't work, Lisle said what's most important is the
one found in Exodus 20:11, which says, "For in six days the Lord
made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them..."
---
http://lastliberal.org
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against
them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing
people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."
--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92,
.
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
17 Jan 2005 12:20:22 AM |
|
|
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and
fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
How did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been
one stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
The theory of evolution is supported by tons of factual objective evidence.
Creationism is supported by Biblical stories. The Bibles are loaded with
crazy stories like the flood.
There is NO objective evidence to support the Creation story.
The rest of this story is equally nonsensical and not supported by any
scientific evidence.
Both groups of people see the same evidence, but have different
interpretations, Lisle explained.
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
Lisle is a speaker with a worldwide ministry called "Answers in
Genesis." The organization started about 20 years ago in
Australia, when people saw their churches struggling and often
compromising their biblical integrity in the face of the
ever-increasing attacks from those hostile to Christianity.
They realized that most Christians were not equipped to provide
answers to a doubting world in a so-called age of science. In
response, they began speaking on creation/evolution issues to help
equip the church to answer the skeptics, and encouraging
Christians to trust God's word.
As a scientist, Lisle uses his expertise to make try to defend the
idea of creation. One of the simplest defenses he offered Saturday
was what he described as information science, the idea that
information always goes back to an intelligent source.
"There's no known law of nature that can cause information to
originate by itself," said Lisle. "In the beginning, God created
the DNA. That's what the Bible says."
This is a preposterous statement. There was NO knowledge of DNA in Biblical
times. There is NO explanation of DNA in the Bible.
DNA was only discovered a few decades ago.
And he went on to use genetics, which is how he says an organism
changes with time, to argue the idea of evolution.
"If evolution is true," said Lisle, "then we're descended from
microbes, like an amoeba, a single-cell organism. At some point,
the information in our DNA had to increase. Evolution is about the
increase of information."
Lisle said all processes in nature reduce information in DNA. He
gave the example of having two dogs, one with long fur and one
with short hair. The offspring of those dogs could have short fur,
long fur, or medium fur.
"Now suppose there's an ice age. The dogs with the short fur will
tend to be eliminated because they're not as insulated, and the
dogs with the medium fur, likewise," explained Lisle. "The dogs
best able to survive in the environment will be the dogs with the
long fur."
Before long, said Lisle, the only dogs left would have long hair
and their offspring also would have long hair.
"This is a great example of survival of the fittest or natural
selection. It's not evolution because have we gained information?"
asked Lisle. "Not at all. In fact, we've lost information. If
there's a heat wave, are these dogs going to go back to having
short hair? Not at all because they've lost the gene for short
hair."
Evolutionists, said Lisle, might question this idea pointing out
that a mutation, or a copying mistake with the DNA could cause a
case like this, which he said is a valid point. In this case, DNA
information doesn't die off, but isn't properly copied.
"Suppose you have two dogs with the information for long legs,"
said Lisle, "and there's a mutation that occurs and you end up
with a dog that has short legs."
This isn't a case of evolution, the doctor argued. Though there
are people who breed dogs with qualities such as these, a dog like
that would likely not do as well in nature.
"Mutations don't help evolution," said Lisle. "They remove
information just as natural selection does. It's the opposite of
evolution. Information is being reduced."
This process, he explained, also couldn't change a dog into a cat.
"A cat has different information, you can't change the information
by deleting it," he said.
While there are many other example out there as to why the idea of
evolution doesn't work, Lisle said what's most important is the
one found in Exodus 20:11, which says, "For in six days the Lord
made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them..."
---
http://lastliberal.org
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against
them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing
people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."
--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92,
.
|
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|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 08:02:55 PM |
|
|
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and
fresh water for the people and millions of animals for them to survive. How
did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been one
stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Both groups of people see the same evidence, but have different
interpretations, Lisle explained.
There is a vast difference between evidence and crazy opinions.
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
It makes about as much sense as Santa Claus, the Ester Bunny and other fairy
tales.
Lisle is a speaker with a worldwide ministry called "Answers in
Genesis." The organization started about 20 years ago in
Australia, when people saw their churches struggling and often
compromising their biblical integrity in the face of the
ever-increasing attacks from those hostile to Christianity.
They realized that most Christians were not equipped to provide
answers to a doubting world in a so-called age of science. In
response, they began speaking on creation/evolution issues to help
equip the church to answer the skeptics, and encouraging
Christians to trust God's word.
As a scientist, Lisle uses his expertise to make try to defend the
idea of creation. One of the simplest defenses he offered Saturday
was what he described as information science, the idea that
information always goes back to an intelligent source.
Pure nonsense. Information is knowledge created by man - some correct and
some false.
Some created by competent scientists and some created by idiots.
"There's no known law of nature that can cause information to
originate by itself," said Lisle. "In the beginning, God created
the DNA. That's what the Bible says."
There is nothing in the Bibles about DNA. Man was not aware of DNA when the
Bibles were written.
And he went on to use genetics, which is how he says an organism
changes with time, to argue the idea of evolution.
"If evolution is true," said Lisle, "then we're descended from
microbes, like an amoeba, a single-cell organism. At some point,
the information in our DNA had to increase. Evolution is about the
increase of information."
Lisle said all processes in nature reduce information in DNA. He
gave the example of having two dogs, one with long fur and one
with short hair. The offspring of those dogs could have short fur,
long fur, or medium fur.
"Now suppose there's an ice age. The dogs with the short fur will
tend to be eliminated because they're not as insulated, and the
dogs with the medium fur, likewise," explained Lisle. "The dogs
best able to survive in the environment will be the dogs with the
long fur."
Before long, said Lisle, the only dogs left would have long hair
and their offspring also would have long hair.
"This is a great example of survival of the fittest or natural
selection. It's not evolution because have we gained information?"
asked Lisle. "Not at all. In fact, we've lost information. If
there's a heat wave, are these dogs going to go back to having
short hair? Not at all because they've lost the gene for short
hair."
Evolutionists, said Lisle, might question this idea pointing out
that a mutation, or a copying mistake with the DNA could cause a
case like this, which he said is a valid point. In this case, DNA
information doesn't die off, but isn't properly copied.
"Suppose you have two dogs with the information for long legs,"
said Lisle, "and there's a mutation that occurs and you end up
with a dog that has short legs."
This isn't a case of evolution, the doctor argued. Though there
are people who breed dogs with qualities such as these, a dog like
that would likely not do as well in nature.
"Mutations don't help evolution," said Lisle. "They remove
information just as natural selection does. It's the opposite of
evolution. Information is being reduced."
This process, he explained, also couldn't change a dog into a cat.
"A cat has different information, you can't change the information
by deleting it," he said.
While there are many other example out there as to why the idea of
evolution doesn't work, Lisle said what's most important is the
one found in Exodus 20:11, which says, "For in six days the Lord
made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them..."
Scientific EVIDENCE indicates life on this earth evolved over a period of
two
BILLION YEARS. There is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that earth was created in six
days.
Your Bible stories are pure fiction.
http://lastliberal.org
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against
them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing
people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."
--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92,
.
|
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 08:22:39 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:PLzGd.14355$S11.6186@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com>
wrote in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing
Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this
was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade? 3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS
supply of food and fresh water for the people and millions of animals
for them to survive. How did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of
manure? It must have been one stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The
Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
6. Where did the flood water come from, and where did it go?
7. Who was carrying all the human-specific diseases
like smallpox, and why didn't the people all die from
them?
8. What did all the carnivores on the boat eat?
9. And what about the dragons that later chapters
of the Bible mention? Why didn't the Noah story mention
putting them on his boat?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 11:05:46 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:22:39 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:PLzGd.14355$S11.6186@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com>
wrote in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing
Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this
was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade? 3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS
supply of food and fresh water for the people and millions of animals
for them to survive. How did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of
manure? It must have been one stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The
Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
6. Where did the flood water come from, and where did it go?
7. Who was carrying all the human-specific diseases
like smallpox, and why didn't the people all die from
them?
8. What did all the carnivores on the boat eat?
9. And what about the dragons that later chapters
of the Bible mention? Why didn't the Noah story mention
putting them on his boat?
I'm wondering how he managed to transport the fire-breathing dragons of the
bible, without burning the boat down.
.
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| User: "The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
17 Jan 2005 01:28:32 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:05:46 -0500, wrote:
I'm wondering how he managed to transport the fire-breathing
dragons of the bible, without burning the boat down.
Asbestos lining in the ship, I suppose. Since the Bible does not
say how, Creationists are free to insert any silly-assed claim.
---
http://lastliberal.org
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen F. Roberts
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
17 Jan 2005 06:13:38 AM |
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(The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile) wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:05:46 -0500, wrote:
I'm wondering how he managed to transport the fire-breathing
dragons of the bible, without burning the boat down.
Asbestos lining in the ship, I suppose. Since the Bible does not
say how, Creationists are free to insert any silly-assed claim.
"Vapor canopy." }:-}
---
Stop Elmer Fudd web site: http://www.ElmerFudd.US/
Covert text file server: http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
.
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| User: "The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
17 Jan 2005 03:54:28 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 06:13:38 GMT, FRice@SkepticTank.ORGREMOVE
(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
desertphile@hotmail.com (The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile) wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:05:46 -0500, wrote:
I'm wondering how he managed to transport the fire-breathing
dragons of the bible, without burning the boat down.
Asbestos lining in the ship, I suppose. Since the Bible does not
say how, Creationists are free to insert any silly-assed claim.
"Vapor canopy." }:-}
Hee! "Uri Geller used his spoon-bending powers and abilities to
deflect the firey blasts."
---
Stop Elmer Fudd web site: http://www.ElmerFudd.US/
Covert text file server: http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
---
http://lastliberal.org
"...just because your brain was not one like Einsteins, that does NOT
excuse you for all your nasty and false comments and acccusations! I
will hold them against you in the 'day of judgement' unless you have
unreservedly and fully apologised!" -- Laurie Appleton (thinks he's
god) to Karl Schneider
.
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| User: "Matt Zellman" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
28 Feb 2005 08:32:55 PM |
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Bill wrote:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com>
wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
[snip]
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
It makes about as much sense as Santa Claus, the Ester Bunny and
other fairy
tales.
MMM, the Ester bunny. He goes around with the Ether bunny, right?
Aren't they the patron saints of O.Chem?
.
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| User: "josephus" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
25 Feb 2005 08:05:15 AM |
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|
Bill wrote:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
first things first the story of NOAH has generally been recognized as a
fictional story with a moral.
The other thing was that NOAH may not have been a jew but lived before
akkadian times perhaps. I have seen the idea presented that NOAH was
probably real, but his big boat would have been a trading vessel. fully
loaded a phenomenal rain caused NOAH to get lost and miss his
delivery.... in those days you could be killed for missing a contract.
Gilgamesh is just one of the flood stories. So the Jews took an
ancient story and made it their own. But in very ancient times there
were several massive floods. One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed
its natural dam and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east. flood stories have a great many
very common elements. there is evidence that the water levels were much
higher. And most of the the people sites have a layer of mud 2 feet
thick. and more ruins below it.
a better quibble would be Jonah and the whale. I know that is a story
used to make a point. But a literalist would think it had to be
absolutely true. and that does not make sense.
josephus
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and
fresh water for the people and millions of animals for them to survive. How
did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been one
stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Both groups of people see the same evidence, but have different
interpretations, Lisle explained.
There is a vast difference between evidence and crazy opinions.
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
It makes about as much sense as Santa Claus, the Ester Bunny and other fairy
tales.
Lisle is a speaker with a worldwide ministry called "Answers in
Genesis." The organization started about 20 years ago in
Australia, when people saw their churches struggling and often
compromising their biblical integrity in the face of the
ever-increasing attacks from those hostile to Christianity.
They realized that most Christians were not equipped to provide
answers to a doubting world in a so-called age of science. In
response, they began speaking on creation/evolution issues to help
equip the church to answer the skeptics, and encouraging
Christians to trust God's word.
As a scientist, Lisle uses his expertise to make try to defend the
idea of creation. One of the simplest defenses he offered Saturday
was what he described as information science, the idea that
information always goes back to an intelligent source.
Pure nonsense. Information is knowledge created by man - some correct and
some false.
Some created by competent scientists and some created by idiots.
"There's no known law of nature that can cause information to
originate by itself," said Lisle. "In the beginning, God created
the DNA. That's what the Bible says."
There is nothing in the Bibles about DNA. Man was not aware of DNA when the
Bibles were written.
And he went on to use genetics, which is how he says an organism
changes with time, to argue the idea of evolution.
"If evolution is true," said Lisle, "then we're descended from
microbes, like an amoeba, a single-cell organism. At some point,
the information in our DNA had to increase. Evolution is about the
increase of information."
Lisle said all processes in nature reduce information in DNA. He
gave the example of having two dogs, one with long fur and one
with short hair. The offspring of those dogs could have short fur,
long fur, or medium fur.
"Now suppose there's an ice age. The dogs with the short fur will
tend to be eliminated because they're not as insulated, and the
dogs with the medium fur, likewise," explained Lisle. "The dogs
best able to survive in the environment will be the dogs with the
long fur."
Before long, said Lisle, the only dogs left would have long hair
and their offspring also would have long hair.
"This is a great example of survival of the fittest or natural
selection. It's not evolution because have we gained information?"
asked Lisle. "Not at all. In fact, we've lost information. If
there's a heat wave, are these dogs going to go back to having
short hair? Not at all because they've lost the gene for short
hair."
Evolutionists, said Lisle, might question this idea pointing out
that a mutation, or a copying mistake with the DNA could cause a
case like this, which he said is a valid point. In this case, DNA
information doesn't die off, but isn't properly copied.
"Suppose you have two dogs with the information for long legs,"
said Lisle, "and there's a mutation that occurs and you end up
with a dog that has short legs."
This isn't a case of evolution, the doctor argued. Though there
are people who breed dogs with qualities such as these, a dog like
that would likely not do as well in nature.
"Mutations don't help evolution," said Lisle. "They remove
information just as natural selection does. It's the opposite of
evolution. Information is being reduced."
This process, he explained, also couldn't change a dog into a cat.
"A cat has different information, you can't change the information
by deleting it," he said.
While there are many other example out there as to why the idea of
evolution doesn't work, Lisle said what's most important is the
one found in Exodus 20:11, which says, "For in six days the Lord
made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them..."
Scientific EVIDENCE indicates life on this earth evolved over a period of
two
BILLION YEARS. There is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that earth was created in six
days.
Your Bible stories are pure fiction.
http://lastliberal.org
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against
them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing
people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."
--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92,
.
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| User: "desertphile@hot, mail.com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
25 Feb 2005 03:51:35 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:05:15 GMT, josephus <dogbird@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Bill wrote:
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
first things first the story of NOAH has generally been recognized as a
fictional story with a moral.
The other thing was that NOAH may not have been a jew but lived before
akkadian times perhaps. I have seen the idea presented that NOAH was
probably real, but his big boat would have been a trading vessel. fully
loaded a phenomenal rain caused NOAH to get lost and miss his
delivery.... in those days you could be killed for missing a contract.
ROTFL!!!! Now please explain the Real True Story behind Odin
hanging in a tree for three days to receive the runes. Thanks.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A good book is a kind of paper club, serving to rouse the slumbrous and to
silence the obtuse." -- Edward Abbey
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
26 Feb 2005 05:15:34 AM |
|
|
<desertphile@hot> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:05:15 GMT, josephus <dogbird@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Bill wrote:
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
first things first the story of NOAH has generally been recognized as a
fictional story with a moral.
The other thing was that NOAH may not have been a jew but lived before
akkadian times perhaps. I have seen the idea presented that NOAH was
probably real, but his big boat would have been a trading vessel. fully
loaded a phenomenal rain caused NOAH to get lost and miss his
delivery.... in those days you could be killed for missing a contract.
This is the "reconstruction" in that (PBS?) TV show that is based on
Finkelstein's view of OT archeology, isn't it?
ROTFL!!!! Now please explain the Real True Story behind Odin
hanging in a tree for three days to receive the runes. Thanks.
Odin was not a god, but an early Norse king. He met the literate Romans,
Greeks or other civilisations when he was travelling through the middle
of Europe, and they took him for a criminal and tied him to a tree for
three days as punishment. While he was up there, he noticed the traders
around him using alphabetical symbols to trade and record things, and
thought that this was a good idea, that would bind his people together
by recording their debts, allegiances and myths. When he recovered and
got home, he reinvented an alphabet as best he could from memory, thus
inventing Runes.
HTH... ;-) [This is fun - history without effort]
--
John S. Wilkins AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Fiat lunch!
.
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| User: "Grasshopper" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
28 Feb 2005 03:45:23 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:05:15 GMT, josephus <dogbird@earthlink.net> wrote:
Bill wrote:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com>
wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
I would hope that the truth would be revealed by the reasoned answer, and
not
by how the question was stated.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
first things first the story of NOAH has generally been recognized as a
fictional story with a moral.
The other thing was that NOAH may not have been a jew but lived before
akkadian times perhaps. I have seen the idea presented that NOAH was
probably real, but his big boat would have been a trading vessel. fully
loaded a phenomenal rain caused NOAH to get lost and miss his
delivery.... in those days you could be killed for missing a contract.
Gilgamesh is just one of the flood stories. So the Jews took an
ancient story and made it their own. But in very ancient times there
were several massive floods. One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed
its natural dam and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east. flood stories have a great many
very common elements. there is evidence that the water levels were much
higher. And most of the the people sites have a layer of mud 2 feet
thick. and more ruins below it.
a better quibble would be Jonah and the whale. I know that is a story
used to make a point. But a literalist would think it had to be
absolutely true. and that does not make sense.
josephus
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing
Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million
KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of
food and
fresh water for the people and millions of animals for them to
survive. How
did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been
one
stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The
Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Both groups of people see the same evidence, but have different
interpretations, Lisle explained.
There is a vast difference between evidence and crazy opinions.
"That's what we're going to see on any subject. You can take a
look at the evidence through Biblical glasses or evolutionized
glasses. I'm going to show you that if you look at it through
Biblical glasses it makes a lot of sense."
It makes about as much sense as Santa Claus, the Ester Bunny and other
fairy
tales.
Lisle is a speaker with a worldwide ministry called "Answers in
Genesis." The organization started about 20 years ago in
Australia, when people saw their churches struggling and often
compromising their biblical integrity in the face of the
ever-increasing attacks from those hostile to Christianity.
They realized that most Christians were not equipped to provide
answers to a doubting world in a so-called age of science. In
response, they began speaking on creation/evolution issues to help
equip the church to answer the skeptics, and encouraging
Christians to trust God's word.
As a scientist, Lisle uses his expertise to make try to defend the
idea of creation. One of the simplest defenses he offered Saturday
was what he described as information science, the idea that
information always goes back to an intelligent source.
Pure nonsense. Information is knowledge created by man - some correct
and
some false.
Some created by competent scientists and some created by idiots.
"There's no known law of nature that can cause information to
originate by itself," said Lisle. "In the beginning, God created
the DNA. That's what the Bible says."
There is nothing in the Bibles about DNA. Man was not aware of DNA when
the
Bibles were written.
And he went on to use genetics, which is how he says an organism
changes with time, to argue the idea of evolution.
"If evolution is true," said Lisle, "then we're descended from
microbes, like an amoeba, a single-cell organism. At some point,
the information in our DNA had to increase. Evolution is about the
increase of information."
Lisle said all processes in nature reduce information in DNA. He
gave the example of having two dogs, one with long fur and one
with short hair. The offspring of those dogs could have short fur,
long fur, or medium fur.
"Now suppose there's an ice age. The dogs with the short fur will
tend to be eliminated because they're not as insulated, and the
dogs with the medium fur, likewise," explained Lisle. "The dogs
best able to survive in the environment will be the dogs with the
long fur."
Before long, said Lisle, the only dogs left would have long hair
and their offspring also would have long hair.
"This is a great example of survival of the fittest or natural
selection. It's not evolution because have we gained information?"
asked Lisle. "Not at all. In fact, we've lost information. If
there's a heat wave, are these dogs going to go back to having
short hair? Not at all because they've lost the gene for short
hair."
Evolutionists, said Lisle, might question this idea pointing out
that a mutation, or a copying mistake with the DNA could cause a
case like this, which he said is a valid point. In this case, DNA
information doesn't die off, but isn't properly copied.
"Suppose you have two dogs with the information for long legs,"
said Lisle, "and there's a mutation that occurs and you end up
with a dog that has short legs."
This isn't a case of evolution, the doctor argued. Though there
are people who breed dogs with qualities such as these, a dog like
that would likely not do as well in nature.
"Mutations don't help evolution," said Lisle. "They remove
information just as natural selection does. It's the opposite of
evolution. Information is being reduced."
This process, he explained, also couldn't change a dog into a cat.
"A cat has different information, you can't change the information
by deleting it," he said.
While there are many other example out there as to why the idea of
evolution doesn't work, Lisle said what's most important is the
one found in Exodus 20:11, which says, "For in six days the Lord
made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them..."
Scientific EVIDENCE indicates life on this earth evolved over a period
of
two
BILLION YEARS. There is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that earth was created in
six
days.
Your Bible stories are pure fiction.
http://lastliberal.org
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against
them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing
people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."
--Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92,
--
---
Just because it never happened doesn't mean it isn't true.
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
27 Feb 2005 10:05:26 AM |
|
|
josephus wrote:
<snip>
But in very ancient times there were several massive floods.
One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed its natural dam
and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east.
<snip>
josephus:
There is absolutely no evidence for such a "natural dam"
in the Bosphorus. It is completely un-natural.
It was never more than a convenient fiction, used to
try to explain why the conclusion of a certain pair of
marine geologists differed radically from what had been
accepted as the history of the Black Sea by everybody else
to that point.
And since.
The Bosphorus opened well before the date(s) of the supposed
Black Sea Flood(s).
Altogether too many people have the mistaken idea
that a catastrophic flood in the Black Sea was
the inspiration for the Noah's Flood story in the Bible.
The TV programs on that topic are outdated and overly
sensational and can be safely ignored.
Sadly, you and maybe millions of other people
have been misled on this subject.
Alas, there was no "Noachian" Black Sea Flood, and
the science in William Ryan's and Walter Pitman's book
"Noah's Flood: the event that changed history" has in
several cases been superceded by better information that
indicates that there was no such event, and was in most
cases preceded by evidence that indicated that there was
no such event.
Ryan and Pitman set out to overturn the orthodox view of
the history of the Black Sea, but they have apparently
abandoned their hypothesis, if more recent articles
co-authored by Ryan are any indication.
The orthodox view has prevailed, subject to some recent
minor modifications.
There is evidence that there was an outflow southward
from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus into the Mediterranean
from more than 10000 years ago
(well before Ryan and Pitman's initial 5600 BCE flood date),
continuously until the present day, though there may have been
a relatively short interruption.
And evidence from the south shore of the Black sea shows that
the level of the Black Sea was only 18 m below the present level
at the time of the supposed flood.
The more recent claim by Ryan puts the flood date at 8400 BP,
or about 9000 years ago, but then the "floodwaters" through the
Bosphorus channel would have been only about 5 metres deep.
9000 years ago is when everybody else always thought that
Mediterranean saltwater first entered the Black Sea. At about
that time, the last phase of Glacial Lake Agassiz, in central
Canada, finally found an outlet to the sea through or under the
remnants of the Laurentide Ice Sheet, and so out into the North
Atlantic, raising sea level an appreciable amount, and perhaps
triggering a sudden inflow of saltwater into the Black Sea basin.
But probably not sudden or great enough to inspire a Noachian
Flood myth.
Better candidates are widespread inundation of low-lying parts
of the Persian Gulf associated with the final draining of Glacial
Lake Agassiz, and similar flooding of the Tigris-Euphrates delta,
and (most likely) simultaneous flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates,
which would have looked like a flooding of the entire world from
the viewpoint of a person near present-day Baghdad. These candidates
could each or all have inspired the flood myth in the epic of
Gilgamesh, which predates the first known appearance of the Noachian
Flood myth.
Check this out, for a layman-friendly synopsis of the refutation:
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm
On the draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz:
http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/PerkinsOnceDuring.html
And here's a fairly recent news item on refutation of Ryan's
and Pitman's hypothesis:
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/4949335.htm
<BEGIN QUOTE>
January 14, 2003
Scientists are seriously challenging a recent, fascinating proposal
that Noah's epic story -- setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal
couples -- was based on an actual catastrophic flood that suddenly
filled the Black Sea 7,500 years ago, forcing people to flee.
In a detailed new look at the rocks, sediments, currents and seashells
in and around the Black Sea, an international research team pooh-poohs
the Noah flood idea, arguing that all the geologic, hydrologic and
biologic signs are wrong.
Little that the earth can tell us seems to fit the Noah story, they
say. The new research takes direct aim at the work of two Columbia
University geologists -- William Ryan and Walter Pitman -- whose
proposal in 1997 ignited much new interest, and much new research,
into Middle East history and geology.
<END QUOTE>
Also, Ballard did not find Noah's House, and he has recently
admitted that he didn't find any evidence of human occupation
of the Black Sea continental shelf, let alone any support for
the BSFlood hypothesis.
Here is another recent news article telling you about that
(please be warned that several statements in the article
are erroneous, e.g.
"Scholars agree the Black Sea flooded when
rising world sea levels caused the Mediterranean to
burst over land and fill the then-freshwater lake."):
"Black Sea Trip Yields No Flood Conclusions"
http://www.puresupply.com/newap/D8458SGG3.html
There was no actual ruined building found by Ballard, but
rather just a partly rectangular outline of raised bed
on the continental shelf, that might even be
the outline of
the wheelhouse of a modern freighter.
To the northwest the outline continues, and narrows to a point.
To the southeast, the outline continues for a shorter distance,
and ends in a rounded curve.
Just what you'd expect when a sunken ship's hull is covered with
sediment.
The wood didn't necessarily contaminate the site, it might have
been part of the ship, and so accurately dates the site.
The roughly-worked stones could have been the ship's ballast.
If you wish, I can supply links to the writeups on Ballard's finds
in professional journals.
And here are a couple of scientific papers:
G r r, N., Cagatay, N., Emre, ., Alpar, B., Sakinc, M., Islamoglu,
Y.,
Algan, O., Erkal, T., Kecer, M., Akk k, R. & Karlik, G. (2001)
"Is the abrupt drowning of the Black Sea shelf at 7150 yr BP a myth?"
Marine Geology 176: 65-73
http://202.120.13.78/cgi-bin/sciserv.pl?collection=journals&journal=002
53227&issue=v176i1-4&article=65 itadotssa7am&form=pdf&file=file.pdf
"Persistent Holocene Outflow from the Black Sea to the Eastern
Mediterranean Contradicts Noah's Flood Hypothesis"
http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/toc0205.htm
And there's lots more, but you'd need access to scientific journals
to read it, but you could ask me for more details if you want them.
Some of the articles are available on the Web.
Sorry to splash water in the frying pan,
Daryl Krupa
.
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| User: "Grasshopper" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
28 Feb 2005 08:53:55 AM |
|
|
On 27 Feb 2005 02:05:26 -0800, <icycalmca@yahoo.com> wrote:
josephus wrote:
<snip>
But in very ancient times there were several massive floods.
One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed its natural dam
and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east.
<snip>
josephus:
There is absolutely no evidence for such a "natural dam"
in the Bosphorus. It is completely un-natural.
It was never more than a convenient fiction, used to
try to explain why the conclusion of a certain pair of
marine geologists differed radically from what had been
accepted as the history of the Black Sea by everybody else
to that point.
And since.
The evidence for the dam is great.
Everyone knows that Bosphorus has to be stored under water
so it will not ignite.
<the rest snipped >
--
---
Just because it never happened doesn't mean it isn't true.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
01 Mar 2005 03:16:58 AM |
|
|
<gggggrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn>
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
01 Mar 2005 06:54:20 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:16:58 -0600, wrote
(in article <1109647018.746686.39690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):
<gggggrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn>
Yeah, ain't it great? Some folks can't take any pun-ishment at all, much less
deal with that burning sensation taking over their brains. It can be worse
than limericks.
There was an old punster from Munster...
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu Supporter
.
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| User: "Daryl Krupa" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
02 Mar 2005 03:56:08 AM |
|
|
Who was known as something of a Monster.
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
02 Mar 2005 05:14:22 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:56:08 -0600, Daryl Krupa wrote
(in article <1109735768.705038.123640@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>):
Who was known as something of a Monster.
He was sitting in his castle one day
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
"The space time you are trying to reach has been disconnected..." Stony
.
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| User: "Daryl Krupa" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
03 Mar 2005 01:15:11 AM |
|
|
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
There was an old punster from Munster...
Who was known as something of a Monster.
He was sitting in his castle one day
Chuckling evilly, per habit, he'd say:
.
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| User: "Daryl Krupa" |
|
| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
05 Mar 2005 06:33:30 AM |
|
|
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
There was an old punster from Munster...
Who was known as something of a Monster.
He was sitting in his castle one day
Chuckling evilly, per habit, he'd say:
"There's nought more vile than a Punster!"
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
05 Mar 2005 02:06:34 PM |
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On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:33:30 -0600, Daryl Krupa wrote
(in article <1110004410.957864.91530@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>):
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
Daryl Krupa wrote:
Harry F. Leopold wrote:
There was an old punster from Munster...
Who was known as something of a Monster.
He was sitting in his castle one day
Chuckling evilly, per habit, he'd say:
"There's nought more vile than a Punster!"
Thank you, I have been busy the last few days (and couldn't think of a proper
ending either.)
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu Supporter
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
28 Feb 2005 12:49:14 PM |
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Grasshopper <remove_kilgore@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 27 Feb 2005 02:05:26 -0800, <icycalmca@yahoo.com> wrote:
josephus wrote:
<snip>
But in very ancient times there were several massive floods.
One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed its natural dam
and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east.
<snip>
josephus:
There is absolutely no evidence for such a "natural dam"
in the Bosphorus. It is completely un-natural.
It was never more than a convenient fiction, used to
try to explain why the conclusion of a certain pair of
marine geologists differed radically from what had been
accepted as the history of the Black Sea by everybody else
to that point.
And since.
The evidence for the dam is great.
Everyone knows that Bosphorus has to be stored under water
so it will not ignite.
That was an incendiary comment. You hide, nay, palm off bad reasons for
the theory. You can't get that sort of gel igniting.
<the rest snipped >
--
John S. Wilkins AA#2207
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Fiat lunch!
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| User: "The Last Conformist" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
28 Feb 2005 03:12:58 PM |
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If animals reproduced before death, how did God
plan to deal with the eventual overpopulation problem?
By drowning them in a global flood. Duh!
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
01 Mar 2005 06:57:11 AM |
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"The Last Conformist" <andreasj@gmail.com> wrote:
If animals reproduced before death, how did God
plan to deal with the eventual overpopulation problem?
By drowning them in a global flood. Duh!
And later He created soda can plastic holder rings.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
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| User: "Eros" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
01 Mar 2005 03:50:24 AM |
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John Wilkins wrote:
Grasshopper <remove_kilgore@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 27 Feb 2005 02:05:26 -0800, <icycalmca@yahoo.com> wrote:
josephus wrote:
<snip>
But in very ancient times there were several massive floods.
One occurred when the Black Sea collapsed its natural dam
and the trillions of tons of water inundated the
precivilized world in the near east.
<snip>
josephus:
There is absolutely no evidence for such a "natural dam"
in the Bosphorus. It is completely un-natural.
It was never more than a convenient fiction, used to
try to explain why the conclusion of a certain pair of
marine geologists differed radically from what had been
accepted as the history of the Black Sea by everybody else
to that point.
And since.
The evidence for the dam is great.
Everyone knows that Bosphorus has to be stored under water
so it will not ignite.
That was an incendiary comment. You hide, nay, palm off bad reasons
for
the theory. You can't get that sort of gel igniting.
Such searing remarks just tend to inflame the situation, John. Come on,
let's see a spark of human kindness. No need to burn your bridges!
EROS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The pelvis of a whale and of snakes are used to reproduce, because
they don't exactly have any arms." -- "Dr." Kent Hovind
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| User: "loeil desprits" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 08:35:56 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:02:55 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and
fresh water for the people and millions of animals for them to survive. How
did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been one
stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
What the hell! Now you're telling me there's no Tooth Fairy?
But...But.... I was TOLD she was real! :)
l'oeil d'esprits
-
'The long term implications of drugs or medical procedures must be
fully considered. Over the past few years, more money has been spent
on breast implants and Viagra than is spent on Alzheimer's Disease
research. It is believed that by the year 2030 there will be a large
number of people wandering around with huge breasts and erections who
can't remember what to do with them.'
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
19 Jan 2005 07:10:10 AM |
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"l'oeil d'esprits" <l'oeil.d'esprits@bove.org> wrote:
What the hell! Now you're telling me there's no Tooth Fairy?
But...But.... I was TOLD she was real! :)
It's ironic that there's a massive amount of actual evidence for the
existance of the Tooth Fairy whereas there's zero for any gods.
---
Stop Elmer Fudd web site: http://www.ElmerFudd.US/
Covert text file server: http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
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| User: "The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
19 Jan 2005 04:32:35 PM |
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:10:10 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
"l'oeil d'esprits" <l'oeil.d'esprits@bove.org> wrote:
What the hell! Now you're telling me there's no Tooth Fairy?
But...But.... I was TOLD she was real! :)
It's ironic that there's a massive amount of actual evidence for the
existance of the Tooth Fairy whereas there's zero for any gods.
Yes, of course. The Tooth Fairy has left coins under the pillows
of many children who have lost teeth; has there ever been any
coins left by the gods?
---
Stop Elmer Fudd web site: http://www.ElmerFudd.US/
Covert text file server: http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
---
http://lastliberal.org
Guns don't kill people: Republicans kill people.
People who cover themselves in ***** shouldn't complain if they attract
flies. - Steve Quarrella
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| User: "loeil desprits" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 08:37:30 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:02:55 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
"The Last Liberal / ShyDavid / Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:34vmsbF4a1v6cU7@individual.net...
alt.atheism.holysmoke,alt.atheism,talk.origins
http://www.gogreenbay.com/page.html?article=129535
Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses'
'Answers in Genesis' speaker Budy Davis says animals are specially
designed to protect themselves (photo by Tina M. Gohr).
By Carli Allen
For The News-Chronicle
Consider the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Would you say it was created with a lot of water over a short
amount of time or with a little water over a long period of time?
Astrophysicist Jason Lisle posed that question with kids and
adults gathered at Green Bay's Bethel Baptist Church on Saturday.
Evolutionists are thinking in terms of millions of years, said
Lisle, so they believe the second question to be true.
Creationists are thinking along the lines of a Biblical worldwide
flood, which would make the first question true.
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a
boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN
species of animals on this planet.
And how many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants,
molds etc. on this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and
fresh water for the people and millions of animals for them to survive. How
did they dispose of the hundreds of tons of manure? It must have been one
stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks with Santa Claus, The Easter
Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
What the hell! Now you're telling me there's no Tooth Fairy?
But...But.... I was TOLD she was real! :)
l'oeil d'esprits
-
'The long term implications of drugs or medical procedures must be
fully considered. Over the past few years, more money has been spent
on breast implants and Viagra than is spent on Alzheimer's Disease
research. It is believed that by the year 2030 there will be a large
number of people wandering around with huge breasts and erections who
can't remember what to do with them.'
.
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Creationist sees science through 'Biblical glasses' |
16 Jan 2005 10:29:01 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, Bill wrote:
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah,
his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth.
Genesis 7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the
male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and
his female.
I think the boat just got a little "smaller." <g>
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