| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Beowulf" |
| Date: |
04 Nov 2004 02:40:03 PM |
| Object: |
crucified saviors (list) |
I pulled the info below off a website somewhere-- a list of crucified
saviors (myths of course). I would appreciate any help here from
knowledgable atheists as to if any of these stand out as bogus, etc.; I
would not want to pass around false info (that is myths containing false
elements, although of course these are all myths) to friends, etc.
-----------------
TAMMUZ of Mesopotamia 1160 B.C.
Tammuz was a god of Assyria, Babylonia and Sumeria where he was known as
Dumuzi. He is commemorated in the name of the month of June, Du'uzu, the
fourth month of a year which begins at the spring equinox. The fullest
history extant of this saviour is probably that of Ctesias (400 BC),
author of Persika. The poet has perpetuated his memory in rhyme.
Trust, ye saints, your Lord restored, Trust ye in your risen Lord;
For the pains which Tammuz endured
Our salvation have procured.
Tammuz was crucified as an atonement offering: Trust ye in God, for out of
his loins salvation has come unto us. Julius Firmicus speaks of this God
rising from the dead for the salvation of the world. This saviour which
long preceded the advent of Christ, filled the same role in sacred
history.
WITTOBA is represented in his story with nail-holes in his hands and the
soles of his feet. Nails, hammers and pincers are constantly seen
represented on his crucifixes and are objects of adoration among his
followers, just as the iron crown of Lombardy has within it a nail claimed
to be of his true original cross, and is much admired and venerated for
that reason. The worship of this crucified God prevails chiefly in the
Travancore and other southern states of India in the region of Madura.
IAO of Nepal 622 B.C.
Iao was crucified on a tree in Nepal. The name of this incarnate god and
oriental saviour occurs frequently in the holy bibles and sacred books of
other countries. Some suppose that Iao is the root of the name of the
Jewish God, Yehouah (Jehovah), often abbreviated to Yeho.
HESUS of the Celtic Druids 834 B.C.
The Celtic Druids depict their god Hesus as having been crucified with a
lamb on one side and an elephant on the other, and that this occurred long
before the Christian era. The elephant, being the largest animal known,
was chosen to represent the magnitude of the sins of the world, while the
lamb, from its proverbial innocent nature, was chosen to represent the
innocence of the victim, the god offered as a propitiatory sacrifice. We
have the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world. The Lamb of God
could therefore have been borrowed from the Druids. This legend was found
in Gaul long before Jesus Christ was known to history.
QUEZALCOATL of Mexico 587 B.C.
Historical authority of the crucifixion of this Mexican god is explicit,
unequivocal and ineffaceable. The evidence is tangible, and indelibly
engraven upon metal plates. One of these plates represents him as having
been crucified on a mountain. Another represents him as having been
crucified in the heavens, as St Justin tells us Christ was. Sometimes he
is represented as having been nailed to a cross, sometimes with two
thieves hanging with him, and sometimes as hanging with a cross in his
hand.
QUIRINIUS of Rome 506 B.C.
The crucifixion of this Roman saviour is remarkable for the parallel
features to that of the Judaean saviour, not only in the circumstances of
his crucifixion, but also in much of his antecedent life. He is
represented, like Christ: As having been conceived and brought forth by a
virgin. His life was sought by the reigning king, Amulius. He was of royal
blood, his mother being of kingly descent. He was put to death by wicked
hands or crucified. At his mortal exit the whole earth is said to have
been enveloped in darkness, as in the case of Christ, Krishna, and
Prometheus. And finally he is resurrected, and ascends back to heaven.
PROMETHEUS 547 B.C.
The crucifixion of Prometheus of Caucasus, described by Seneca, Hesiod,
and other writers, states that he was nailed to an upright beam of timber,
to which were affixed extended arms of wood, and that this cross was
situated near the Caspian Straits. The modern story of this crucified god,
which has him bound to a rock for thirty years, while vultures preyed upon
his vitals, is a Christian fraud. The poet, in portraying his propitiatory
offering, says:
Lo! streaming from the fatal tree
His all atoning blood,
Is this the Infinite?-Yes, 'tis he,
Prometheus, and a god!
Well might the sun in darkness hide,
And veil his glories in,
When God, the great Prometheus, died
For man the creature's sin.
It is doubtful whether there is to be found in the whole range of Greek
letters deeper pathos than that of the divine woe of the beneficent
demigod Prometheus, crucified on his Scythian crags for his love to
mortals. When he dies: That the whole frame of nature became convulsed.
The earth shook, the rocks were rent, the graves were opened, and in a
storm, which seemed to threaten the dissolution of the universe, the
solemn scene forever closed, and Our Lord and saviour Prometheus gave up
the ghost. The cause for which he suffered was his love for the human
race. The whole story of Prometheus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection
was acted in pantomime in Athens five hundred years before Christ, which
proves its great antiquity. Minutius Felix, one of the most popular
Christian writers of the second century addresses the people of Rome: Your
victorious trophies not only represent a simple cross, but a cross with a
man on it, and this man St. Jerome calls a god.
THULIUS of Egypt 1700 B.C.
Thulis of Egypt, whence comes Ultima Thule, died the death of the cross
about 3500 years ago. Ultima Thule was the island which marked the
ultimate bounds of the extensive empire of this legitimate descendant of
the gods. This Egyptian saviour appears also to have been known as Zulis.
His history is curiously illustrated in the sculptures, made 1700BC of a
small, retired chamber lying nearly over the western adytum of the temple.
Twenty-eight lotus plants near his grave indicate the number of years he
lived on the earth. After suffering a violent death, he was buried, but
rose again, ascended into heaven, and there became the judge of the dead,
or of souls in a future state. He came down from heaven to benefit
mankind, and that he was said to be full of grace and truth.
INDRA of Tibet 725 B.C.
This Tibetan saviour is shown nailed to the cross. There are five wounds,
representing the nail-holes and the piercing of the side. The antiquity of
the story is beyond dispute. Marvellous stories are told of the birth of
the Divine Redeemer. His mother was a virgin of black complexion, and
hence his complexion was of the ebony hue, as in the case of Christ and
some other sin-atoning saviours. He descended from heaven on a mission of
benevolence, and ascended back to the heavenly mansion after his
crucifixion. He led a life of strict celibacy, which, he taught, was
essential to true holiness. He inculcated great tenderness toward all
living beings. He could walk upon the water or upon the air; he could
foretell future events with great accuracy. He practised the most devout
contemplation, severe discipline of the body and mind, and completely
subdued his passions. He was worshiped as a god who had existed as a
spirit from all eternity, and his followers were called Heavenly Teachers.
ALCESTOS of Euripides 600 B.C.
A less usual crucified God was Alcestos, who was female, the only example
of a feminine God atoning for the sins of the world upon the cross. The
doctrine of the trinity and atoning offering for sin was inculcated as a
part of her religion.
ATTIS of Phrygia 1170 BC.
Speaking of this crucified Messiah, the Anacalypsis informs us that
several histories are given of him, but all concur in representing him as
having been an atoning offering for sin. And the Latin phrase suspensus
lingo, found in his history, indicates the manner of his death. He was
suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again.
CRITE of Chaldaea 1200 BC.
The Chaldeans have noted in their sacred books the crucifixion of a god
with the above name. He was also known as the Redeemer, and was styled the
Ever Blessed Son of God, the saviour of the Race, the Atoning Offering for
an Angry God. When he was offered up, both heaven and earth were shaken to
their foundations.
BALI of Orissa 725 B.C.
In Orissa, in Asia, they have the story of a crucified God, known by
several names, including the above, all of which, we are told, signify
Lord Second, his being the second person or second member of the trinity.
Most of the crucified gods occupied that position in a trinity of gods,
the Son, in all cases, being the atoning offering. This God Bali was also
called Baliu, and sometimes Bel. Monuments of this crucified God, bearing
great age, may be found amid the ruins of the magnificent city of
Mahabalipore, partially buried amongst the figures of the temple.
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born on the twenty-fifth
day of December, and crucified on a tree. Christian writers both speak of
his being slain, and yet both omit to speak of the manner in which he was
put to death. And the same policy has been pursued with respect to other
crucified gods of the pagans, as we have shown. Devatat of Siam, Ixion of
Rome, Apollonius of Tyana in Cappadocia, are all reported to have died on
the cross."
IXION 400 B.C.
Ixion was crucified on a wheel, the rim representing the world, and the
spokes constituting the cross. He bore the burden of the world, the sins
of the world, on his back while suspended on the cross. He was therefore
called the crucified spirit of the world.
.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
04 Nov 2004 03:40:09 PM |
|
|
Beowulf wrote:
I pulled the info below off a website somewhere-- a list of crucified
saviors (myths of course). I would appreciate any help here from
knowledgable atheists as to if any of these stand out as bogus, etc.; I
would not want to pass around false info (that is myths containing false
elements, although of course these are all myths) to friends, etc.
-----------------
Good list.
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
|
| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
04 Nov 2004 04:45:29 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
KRISHNA of India, 1200 years B.C.
Krishna (as his mythology and gospel story tells) had a virgin birth,
disciples, did pretty much the same miracles and spoke the same parables
that are attributed to Christ; except that Krishna (a mythical figure) did
them all 1200 years before Jesus allegedly came on the scene. Similar to
Christ, Krishna was born of a virgin (Devaki, 'Divine One') on Dec 25th.
His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying taxes
when Krishna was born. He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
slaughter of thousands of infants. He raised the dead, healed lepers,
healed the deaf and the blind. He used parables to teach truths. He
castigated the clergy. He had his head annointed with oil by a woman he
healed. He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent. He
gave his disciples the power to work miracles. His beloved disciple was
Ar-Jouan ("John"). He was transigured in front of his disciples. He was
killed around age 30, and the sun darkened at his death. He rose from the
dead and ascended to heaven in the sight of many. He was depicted on a
cross with nail-holes in his feet. He was called "Shepherd of God",
"Redeemer", "Sin-Bearer", "Son of God", "our Lord and Saviour", etc. He
was the second person of the Trinity. His disciples bestowed upon him the
title "Jezeus" or "Jeseus" meaning "pure essence. Krishna is to return to
judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the "Prince
of Evil" who will desolate the earth. (From "The Christ Conspiracy: The
Greatest Story Ever Told" by Acharya S, page 117 which has many
references).
.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
04 Nov 2004 07:57:13 PM |
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|
Beowulf wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
KRISHNA of India, 1200 years B.C.
Krishna (as his mythology and gospel story tells) had a virgin birth,
disciples, did pretty much the same miracles and spoke the same parables
that are attributed to Christ; except that Krishna (a mythical figure) did
them all 1200 years before Jesus allegedly came on the scene. Similar to
Christ, Krishna was born of a virgin (Devaki, 'Divine One') on Dec 25th.
His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying taxes
when Krishna was born. He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
slaughter of thousands of infants. He raised the dead, healed lepers,
healed the deaf and the blind. He used parables to teach truths. He
castigated the clergy. He had his head annointed with oil by a woman he
healed. He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent. He
gave his disciples the power to work miracles. His beloved disciple was
Ar-Jouan ("John"). He was transigured in front of his disciples. He was
killed around age 30, and the sun darkened at his death. He rose from the
dead and ascended to heaven in the sight of many. He was depicted on a
cross with nail-holes in his feet. He was called "Shepherd of God",
"Redeemer", "Sin-Bearer", "Son of God", "our Lord and Saviour", etc. He
was the second person of the Trinity. His disciples bestowed upon him the
title "Jezeus" or "Jeseus" meaning "pure essence. Krishna is to return to
judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the "Prince
of Evil" who will desolate the earth. (From "The Christ Conspiracy: The
Greatest Story Ever Told" by Acharya S, page 117 which has many
references).
Yes, Krishna and Mithra are the two I use more then any other in my
debates with xters about their "unique" religion. They usually are very
surprised when the find out, their savior on a stick, is not so unique
after all.
I had also read the infidels site offering on this, but because Graves
research has been brought into question, I don't use it to often.
However, it seems that when you go back to the mythology stories from
these areas, Graves is correct.
But some of that mythology gets a little thick after a while.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
|
| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
05 Nov 2004 04:59:17 PM |
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|
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktayloraz@getnet.net> wrote in message news:<893r52-aj21.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com>...
Beowulf wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
Useful to know where this nonsense is coming from. I don't think a
single word of this is factually correct, which is quite an
achievement! And all this from Acharya S.?
Yes, Krishna and Mithra are the two I use more then any other in my
debates with xters about their "unique" religion. They usually are very
surprised when the find out, their savior on a stick, is not so unique
after all.
Is it OK, as an atheist, to repeat this hearsay without checking?
(That isn't a gibe -- I want to know where you stand).
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
06 Nov 2004 12:16:26 PM |
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|
Roger Pearse wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message news:<893r52-aj21.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com>...
Beowulf wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
Useful to know where this nonsense is coming from. I don't think a
single word of this is factually correct, which is quite an
achievement! And all this from Acharya S.?
Yes, Krishna and Mithra are the two I use more then any other in my
debates with xters about their "unique" religion. They usually are very
surprised when the find out, their savior on a stick, is not so unique
after all.
Is it OK, as an atheist, to repeat this hearsay without checking?
(That isn't a gibe -- I want to know where you stand).
And coming from an ignorant, self indulgent, unread, uneducated, know it
all fundy, that is high praise indeed.
Now, when you have read the Vedas, Roman history, Jewish history, and
have graduated from seminary and finished your theological training,
then you can tell me about hearsay.
Not before.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
|
| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
10 Nov 2004 12:35:33 PM |
|
|
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <> wrote in message news:<12hv52-nae1.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com>...
Roger Pearse wrote:
"Rev. Karl E. Taylor" < > wrote in message news:<893r52-aj21.ln1@dhcpdns2.ddsoho.com>...
Beowulf wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
Useful to know where this nonsense is coming from. I don't think a
single word of this is factually correct, which is quite an
achievement! And all this from Acharya S.?
Yes, Krishna and Mithra are the two I use more then any other in my
debates with xters about their "unique" religion. They usually are very
surprised when the find out, their savior on a stick, is not so unique
after all.
Is it OK, as an atheist, to repeat this hearsay without checking?
(That isn't a gibe -- I want to know where you stand).
And coming from an ignorant, self indulgent, unread, uneducated, know it
all fundy, that is high praise indeed.
<chuckle>
Now, when you have read the Vedas, Roman history, Jewish history, and
have graduated from seminary and finished your theological training,
then you can tell me about hearsay.
Not before.
Facts are frightening to you, aren't they? :)
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
Except for:
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
06 Nov 2004 03:29:21 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 11:16:26 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
...
Now, when you have read the Vedas, Roman history, Jewish history, and
have graduated from seminary and finished your theological training,
then you can tell me about hearsay.
Not before.
...
A faulty ploy, appealing to authority (read Carl Sagan's 'Baloney
Detection Kit'); please, if you have something of substance to contribute
to logical argumentation do so. I do not have much respect for seminaries
and such; when I was in a bible church I knew more about the bible than
the preachers who graduated seminary and wore black robes.
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| User: "John Kelley" |
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| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
06 Nov 2004 03:26:08 PM |
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http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
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| User: "Paul Erickson" |
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| Title: Re: crucified saviors (list) |
08 Nov 2004 02:30:32 AM |
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:45:29 -0600, Beowulf <beowulf@nowhere.net>
wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:40:09 -0700, Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
One question, where did you pull it from? URL please, I'd like to see
what else they may have.
http://www.onet.net/~cathy/borrowed.htm
Another useful URL
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.shtml
but I have heard that a few of the 16 go a bit on the edge and are not as
trustworth.
Here is some more I have added to Mithra and Krishna, adding material from
Achary S ("The Christ Conspiracy")
MITHRAS of Persia 600 B.C.
This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind,
and to take away the sins of the world. He was born of a virgin on the
twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. His birth was
attended by shepherds bearing gifts. Mithra had 12 disciples. His
followers were promised immortality. He did miracles. He was crucified,
and buried in a tomb for 3 days and then was resurrected. He was called
the "Good Sheperd", "the Way, Truth, and Light", "Logos", "Redeemer",
"Savior", "Messiah". His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day". His
religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper" at which Mithra said "He who
shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with
me and I with him shall not be saved."
I don't know a lot about Mithra, but I see a few things in there I
find hard to swallow. 600 BC, eh? What December? I feel sure they
were on a lunar calendar. You mean winter solstice, which is not 25th
of our December? And is a natural time for a holiday in any case?
You know proto-Latin was not an important language back then --
December? I don't think Greek would have been a holy thing in Iran at
that time either. Really, logos? Whaen was he called that -- perhaps
when every deity was being called that? The days might have been
clumped into seven day groups among the original worshipers of that
bull-god, and I am willing to believe that weeks have a continuity
that no other grouping of time enjoys. So maybe, WRT those Romans who
eventually embraced that god, you are right about mithras' sabbath.
But basically I do see your point, if you are talking about the
mithraism that was contemporaneous with the rise of christianity.
And, of course, I can only pull out of my ***** what is there to begin
with,
Mithraism is one of the oldest religions on earth. When Pompey's army
conquered Persia and other lands, the army brought mithraism back to Rome
with them, where it spread rapidly through the Roman Empire and where it
was adopted by several Emporers up to Constantine. Mithraism was one of
the greatest challenges to Christianity, which won out, barely.
KRISHNA of India, 1200 years B.C.
Krishna (as his mythology and gospel story tells) had a virgin birth,
disciples, did pretty much the same miracles and spoke the same parables
that are attributed to Christ; except that Krishna (a mythical figure) did
them all 1200 years before Jesus allegedly came on the scene. Similar to
Christ, Krishna was born of a virgin (Devaki, 'Divine One') on Dec 25th.
His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying taxes
when Krishna was born. He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
slaughter of thousands of infants. He raised the dead, healed lepers,
healed the deaf and the blind. He used parables to teach truths. He
castigated the clergy. He had his head annointed with oil by a woman he
healed. He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent. He
gave his disciples the power to work miracles. His beloved disciple was
Ar-Jouan ("John"). He was transigured in front of his disciples. He was
killed around age 30, and the sun darkened at his death. He rose from the
dead and ascended to heaven in the sight of many. He was depicted on a
cross with nail-holes in his feet. He was called "Shepherd of God",
"Redeemer", "Sin-Bearer", "Son of God", "our Lord and Saviour", etc. He
was the second person of the Trinity. His disciples bestowed upon him the
title "Jezeus" or "Jeseus" meaning "pure essence. Krishna is to return to
judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the "Prince
of Evil" who will desolate the earth. (From "The Christ Conspiracy: The
Greatest Story Ever Told" by Acharya S, page 117 which has many
references).
Slobbering Skeleton
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