| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2004 06:10:09 AM |
| Object: |
Dalai Lama |
Dalai Lama says Tibet is better off within China
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=573564
By Justin Huggler in Delhi
19 October 2004
Tibet would be better off to remain within China rather than regain
its independence, the Dalai Lama has told an interviewer. "Tibet is
backward," the exiled spiritual leader said. "It's a big land, rich in
natural resources, but we lack the technology or expertise [to exploit
them]. So, if we remain in China, we might get a greater benefit,
provided it respects our culture and environment and gives us some
kind of guarantee."
Justin Huggler
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0405130137.7f2cb209%40posting.google.com
Dalai Lama
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Dalai+Lama%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Dalai+Lama%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+%22Dalai+Lama%22&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=Dalai%20Lama&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Tibet Tibetan Tibetans
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Tibet+OR+Tibetan+OR+Tibetans&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=gn&q=Tibet+OR+Tibetan+OR+Tibetans&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Tibet+OR+Tibetan+OR+Tibetans&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Tibet%20Tibetan%20Tibetans&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://tinyurl.com/9vga
.
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
26 Oct 2004 10:28:32 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:39:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
If you Bill and the others want to play the HHDL's game you are welcome
to do so.
Dear PaPaPeng:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
This is a simple yes, no question. No deep philosophy or mind-numbing
gibberish.
A simple "yes" or "no" will do. BTW, before you considering lying. the PRC
freely admits that the answer is "yes".
But I would like to see if YOU have the intellectual honesty to say that
Tibetans are imprisoned for that reason.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "PaPaPeng" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
26 Oct 2004 11:58:49 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no
claim even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access, anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of
the DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty
petty and unenforceable. What for anyway? To warm your heart Han
Chinese have been converted to the Tibetan version of Buddhism in
impressive numbers but don't get into the news becuase no one in
China, the government ot the common people, care. Conversions to
Christianity have also increased. I don't know the conversions to
other religions - Buddhism and Islam - because they don't get into the
news as there are no noisy western based advocacy groups interested in
them.
Religious strife had never reared its ugly head throught China's
history because religion never had the power in the ruling circles it
had in other civilizations. Religious movements are still not an
issue now. The Tibet problem is because the DL had wrapped his cause
of Tibetan rule with his office as a religious leader. Its hardly
proper for other countries to advocate Tibetan Independence for where
is there a country that doesn't have its own secessionist group. So
supporting the DL on grounds of religious freedom becomes the cause
célčbre, not among soverign governments because they realise how
dangerous this can be to their own problems with religious fanaticism,
but among romantics like you.
China has no problem with the current DL because he is harmless where
he is and he is harmless as a symbol for Tibetan Independence. As for
supressing Tibetan "resistance" inside Tibet, its a manageable
problem. Thier numbers are too small and the geography just does not
support guerilla activity. Malcontents one will always have.
You want to be an overaged romantic reduced to urging others to live
your dreams and hopefully die for them, dream on. Its easy enough in
Taiwan get smoke something that will help you in your dreams.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
27 Oct 2004 02:34:22 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
27 Oct 2004 08:58:51 AM |
|
|
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
It's really shameful that those with minds numbed by the CCP
make like it's an issue of the Dalai Lama being the problem,
when it is plain as day that it is the Communist Chinese.
It's like when Bush accuses Kerry of doing things that in fact
Bush does.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
28 Oct 2004 12:43:42 PM |
|
|
(Bill Moore) wrote in message news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
It's really shameful that those with minds numbed by the CCP
make like it's an issue of the Dalai Lama being the problem,
when it is plain as day that it is the Communist Chinese.
It's like when Bush accuses Kerry of doing things that in fact
Bush does.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
31 Oct 2004 05:26:30 PM |
|
|
In article <5eb15984.0410280943.70107f9e@posting.google.com>,
LT Lee <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
bmoore@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
No, torture in Tibet is a fact regardless of what anyone believes.
People have electric cattle prods placed on their genitals
and anuses. This happens in other parts of China, too, not just
Tibet.
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
Oh yes, all the stories are made up. Gosh, the CCP would never
condone anything that horrid.
Your bias makes you incapable of accepting this terrible
truth about China.
It's really shameful that those with minds numbed by the CCP
make like it's an issue of the Dalai Lama being the problem,
when it is plain as day that it is the Communist Chinese.
It's like when Bush accuses Kerry of doing things that in fact
Bush does.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
31 Oct 2004 11:22:01 PM |
|
|
(Bill Moore) wrote in message news:<738538295.366721@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <5eb15984.0410280943.70107f9e@posting.google.com>,
LT Lee <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
No, torture in Tibet is a fact regardless of what anyone believes.
People have electric cattle prods placed on their genitals
and anuses. This happens in other parts of China, too, not just
Tibet.
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
Oh yes, all the stories are made up. Gosh, the CCP would never
condone anything that horrid.
Your bias makes you incapable of accepting this terrible
truth about China.
Not at all.
It is not about my bias. It is a matter of evidences.
Given that prison guard everywhere are not highly educated and they
are not paid well, prisoner abuses are common among the poorer
regions, in China as well as other parts of the world. So, I don't
rule out the possiblity of prisoner abuses. But then these are
individual cases and they are not a matter of Chinese policy toward
the Tibetans.
Accusation is only accusation until it is proven. For example, one
should not conclude that because some one had suited Bush for covering
up 9/11 truth, then Bush must be guilty.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/trade_towers_rescue.html
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
governemnt covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
It's really shameful that those with minds numbed by the CCP
make like it's an issue of the Dalai Lama being the problem,
when it is plain as day that it is the Communist Chinese.
It's like when Bush accuses Kerry of doing things that in fact
Bush does.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
31 Oct 2004 11:49:57 PM |
|
|
In article <5eb15984.0410312122.12a66a51@posting.google.com>,
LT Lee <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
bmoore@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738538295.366721@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <5eb15984.0410280943.70107f9e@posting.google.com>,
LT Lee <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
bmoore@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:58:49 +0000, PaPaPeng thought carefully and wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:28:32 +0800, Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net>
wrote:
Are Tibetans imprisoned for displaying pictures of the Dali Lama?
The western tourists who have been to Tibet have said that they were
quite surprised that posters of the DL are sold openly in the shops.
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
No, torture in Tibet is a fact regardless of what anyone believes.
People have electric cattle prods placed on their genitals
and anuses. This happens in other parts of China, too, not just
Tibet.
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
Oh yes, all the stories are made up. Gosh, the CCP would never
condone anything that horrid.
Your bias makes you incapable of accepting this terrible
truth about China.
Not at all.
It is not about my bias. It is a matter of evidences.
What about the availability of evidence? What if one country
(China) puts a lot of effort into hiding evidence?
That is the fundamental problem with your argument. China
conceals evidence.
Given that prison guard everywhere are not highly educated and they
are not paid well, prisoner abuses are common among the poorer
regions, in China as well as other parts of the world. So, I don't
rule out the possiblity of prisoner abuses. But then these are
individual cases and they are not a matter of Chinese policy toward
the Tibetans.
Then why has the CCP almost never acknowledged it? Answer:
it is part of their campaign.
Accusation is only accusation until it is proven.
I imagine the Tibetans that the Chinese have maimed
would be rather offended by your hogwash.
For example, one
should not conclude that because some one had suited Bush for covering
up 9/11 truth, then Bush must be guilty.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/trade_towers_rescue.html
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
governemnt covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy.
OK. But you're full of it. The Chinese *do* torture people *and*
the US government was *not* behind 9/11. Your bias is showing again.
The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
The Tibetans with crippled bodies quietly weep at your
shameful deception.
It's really shameful that those with minds numbed by the CCP
make like it's an issue of the Dalai Lama being the problem,
when it is plain as day that it is the Communist Chinese.
It's like when Bush accuses Kerry of doing things that in fact
Bush does.
Try reading some back issues of the National Geographic. I remember a
few pictures showing pictures of the DL displayed in Tibetan shops and
homes.
No. False.
In this time and day, with Internet connections, and there is no claim
even from you that Tibet has been blocked off access,
Weird. ARE you actually claiming that the PRC Internet is free?
Who do you think that lie will fool?
Just recently it was headline news that Google revised its search engine
in the PRC so that sites which are banned are not shown. For example,
sites that tell the truth about the Tiananmen Square massacre can't be
reached from inside the PRC, so if you search Google for Tiananmen Square,
those sites will not be shown.
anyone can
search for and download anything including articles and pictures of the
DL. Measures like banning pictures of the DL in Tibet is pretty petty
and unenforceable. What for anyway?
It is petty but unenforceable? Well, the ban on the Roman Catholic Church
may also be regarded as "unenforceable" but it is real anyway, and people
were put in prison for violating it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
01 Nov 2004 08:19:09 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to learn
how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will be
better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
01 Nov 2004 08:23:57 PM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to learn
how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will be
better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
01 Nov 2004 09:13:46 PM |
|
|
In article <5eb15984.0411011823.9faabf8@posting.google.com>,
LT Lee <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to learn
how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will be
better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
It's rather obvious that he's saying you're full of crap.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
01 Nov 2004 11:36:14 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
02 Nov 2004 10:33:43 AM |
|
|
In article <pan.2004.11.02.05.36.14.960729@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
Mr. Lee has never, ever admitted being wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
03 Nov 2004 12:11:43 PM |
|
|
In article <pan.2004.11.02.05.36.14.960729@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
Would it not be quicker, and easier, if you simply posted the URLs that you
found in your search?
Or is this a case of trying to get your opponent, to do your research for you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
03 Nov 2004 12:22:31 PM |
|
|
In article <it7io0lkdiuf9kef86flhj4i6rigd40qci@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
In article <pan.2004.11.02.05.36.14.960729@ms74.hinet.net>,
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
Would it not be quicker, and easier, if you simply posted the URLs that you
found in your search?
Or is this a case of trying to get your opponent, to do your research for you?
You're probably coming in late in the game. URLs have been
posted multitudes of times. Mr. Lee rejects out of hand all
evidence that impugns the Chinese Communist Party. Has for
years.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
02 Nov 2004 08:19:46 AM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.02.05.36.14.960729@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
If one wants other people to beleive your claim, he is the person who
needs to furnish something to substantiate that claim.
For example, I stated that "I found more evidence to believe the
American government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chinese
government torturing nuns as a policy." I provided the link to a site
which will show primary data and reason why some people beleive that
the American government was involved in a cover up. Anyone interested
can then access the website and decide for himself whether my claim is
valid.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Yu" |
|
| Title: Re: A Lesson in Web-Searching for LT Lee |
02 Nov 2004 08:13:12 PM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.02.05.36.14.960729@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:23:57 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.14.19.09.959415@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:22:01 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
As a matter of fact, I found more evidence to believe the American
government covering the truth of 9/11 than the Chines government
torturing nuns as a policy. The following site is one example.
http://question911.com/links.php
Please describe the method you used to search for evidence that the
Chinese government tortures nuns as a policy. Evidently you need to
learn how to conduct a good search.
When you describe your search procedures in full, the rest of us will
be better able to explain what you were doing wrong.
If you have something to say, then say it.
I claim that you know full well how to find evidence of torture in China.
I further claim that your failure to find such evidence is proof of your
lack of trying.
The vast majority* of the claim about torture in Tibet had originated
from organizations receiving funding form US or UK gov. Since I have
not read every web pages existing, I can only say the "vast majority".
I spent years reading US/UK propaganda as a hobby.
These propaganda are then copied and re-pasted all over the web.
Repeating the same lie many times is their propaganda tactic.
Notice that Jim have been doing that for the last 10 years.
To disprove my claims, show us how you did the search which failed to find
such evidence and if I can't show you the flaws in your search plan, you
will have won this point.
You claim there were torture, you provide proof.
If I call you a rapist I will have to provide proof.
Hint: You lost this one. Admit it.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
29 Oct 2004 02:09:44 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:43:42 -0700, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
bmoore@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>, Jim Walsh
<jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
Well, the CCP could open up China to free and full investigation of human
rights violations. Do you think that will happen any day soon?
BTW, I have noticed that you decide whether people are credible based upon
what they say or based on whether they are CCP leaders.
So, to you, people who say that the CCP is corrupt are not credible.
How do you decide "credibility" when CCP leaders say that the CCP is
corrupt?
When I say that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed in China, you say I
am not credible.
What do you say when the CCP says that the Roman Catholic Church is
outlawed?
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I would
like to hear more from you.
I have personally read multiple reliable accounts of Tibetans being
persecuted by the CCP.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
01 Nov 2004 10:55:22 AM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.10.29.07.09.42.666003@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:43:42 -0700, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
bmoore@blackhole.nyx.net (Bill Moore) wrote in message
news:<738158637.237317@irys.nyx.net>...
In article <pan.2004.10.27.07.34.20.684931@ms74.hinet.net>, Jim Walsh
<jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote:
Nah. You are lying.
Nuns are tortured for singing Tibetan songs.
Only if one accept unsubtantiated and unsubstantiable reports from
unknown people with unknown credibility.
Well, the CCP could open up China to free and full investigation of human
rights violations. Do you think that will happen any day soon?
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the
satisfy the whims of China bashers.
BTW, I have noticed that you decide whether people are credible based upon
what they say or based on whether they are CCP leaders.
Not at all. I based on objective evidence and I based on whether some
one is in a position to judge. If there are opposite views on an
issue, I tend to believe the insider more than someone who is ignorant
about China and Chinese.
So, to you, people who say that the CCP is corrupt are not credible.
Again. What you say about me is not true? The PRC of course, has
corruption. The usual point of deparure what should be done to make
the system better. Many think democracy and etc can help. In contrast,
I find western democracy not useful.
How do you decide "credibility" when CCP leaders say that the CCP is
corrupt?
Show me what "CCP leaders say."
When I say that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed in China, you say I
am not credible.
What do you say when the CCP says that the Roman Catholic Church is
outlawed?
Many organizations are outlawed in many places. The Roman Catholic
Church had behaved badly. They had inflicted pain and suffering to the
Chinese people in the past. The current Pope had apolozied for their
past misbehavior. Anyway, if you are talking about religious freedom,
Roman Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on Catholicism just
like Al Qadea does not have a monopoly on Islam. Catholicism is not
outlawed in China. On the contrary, it is thriving.
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I would
like to hear more from you.
I have personally read multiple reliable accounts of Tibetans being
persecuted by the CCP.
You are welcomed to share this reliable accounts.
.
|
|
|
| User: "PaPaPeng" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
01 Nov 2004 03:30:11 PM |
|
|
On 1 Nov 2004 08:55:22 -0800, (LT Lee) wrote:
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the
satisfy the whims of China bashers.
Over the past 20 to 25 year China has advanced enough such that she
now has full control of her destiny. No other country can force their
ideologies, their economic power or their military on China's affairs.
25 years is a very short time for so much to happen and there will be
hiccups along the way. What is remarkable is that so much has been
achieved in so short a time and with so few bumps. All these changes
and developments have the broad support of the people and there is
that groundswell of national confidence and optimism found nowhere
else on this planet at this time.
Think back to just over 25 years ago. The world's attitude then was
China was backward and would take at least 30 to 40 years to catch up
with the West.. She would then still be a second rank power and depend
on the leadership and goodwill of the West to prosper. Not anymore.
A personal and humorous anecdote was I met a Canadian Chinese who
taught English in Guangdong. He enjoyed his time there and said that
although in absolute terms, his pay wasn't much, he was very well off
by local standards. Then of course we teased him why didn't he come
back with a China bride as Canada must be an attractive bride lure.
His answer was surprising. Girls in China no longer think that way.
Everybody wants to stay in China because that's where things are
happening and they want to be part of it. Emigration to Canada and
the West is no longer desirable. And this is reflected across a broad
spectrum in the news we read - The sustained boom and technological
sophistication, overseas turtles (China grads with foreign degrees and
experience) flock back to China, the absence of desperate migrations
in rusty boats or false refugee claims, more.
In this newsgroup, we get relics (Love Jim, et al) of old ideologies
condemn China for its lack of democracy, freedoms and what have you.
Why even bother to respond to them when the real world has already
moved on. Why bother to argue over injustices that happened centuries
ago. The events are history and can't be changed. But the attitudes
can. This change of attitude will come naturally when China resumes
its place as the top economic power in the world and the arbiter of
world affairs. Not because she has a superpower military machine, but
because she has shown how countries can prosper and improve the lives
of their people that the Western model cannot.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Moore" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
01 Nov 2004 04:04:47 PM |
|
|
In article <v69do0165r342iphoa60i877s3gn7el1i5@4ax.com>,
PaPaPeng <papapeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 1 Nov 2004 08:55:22 -0800, (LT Lee) wrote:
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the
satisfy the whims of China bashers.
While in mnay ways the CCP has advanced China, there are some
serious problems with its approach. The people who refuse to
keep quiet about this are not bashers. And Chinese who speak
up about it and put themselves at risk are true Chinese patriots.
(snip)
In this newsgroup, we get relics (Love Jim, et al) of old ideologies
condemn China for its lack of democracy, freedoms and what have you.
Why even bother to respond to them when the real world has already
moved on. Why bother to argue over injustices that happened centuries
ago.
Now you are lying.
The injustices the CCP is so well known for didn't happen
centuries ago; they have been happening ever since the CCP
gained control of China and continue to happen today. Yes,
there has been progress, great progress. But there has also
been great horror.
The progress is fantastic.
But your eyes are shut if you cannot acknowledge the horror that
accompanies the progress.
And it really doesn't matter whether you respond or not.
The important thing is that the deception that some try
to perpetrate on this newsgroup does not go unanswered.
It is people like Yu and others who, in the deceitful way
they try to give a false picture of China, do the greatest
injustice to the Chinese people.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Dalai Lama |
02 Nov 2004 11:59:14 AM |
|
|
PaPaPeng wrote:
On 1 Nov 2004 08:55:22 -0800, (LT Lee) wrote:
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the
satisfy the whims of China bashers.
Over the past 20 to 25 year China has advanced enough such that she
now has full control of her destiny. No other country can force their
ideologies, their economic power or their military on China's affairs.
25 years is a very short time for so much to happen and there will be
hiccups along the way. What is remarkable is that so much has been
achieved in so short a time and with so few bumps. All these changes
and developments have the broad support of the people and there is
that groundswell of national confidence and optimism found nowhere
else on this planet at this time.
Think back to just over 25 years ago. The world's attitude then was
China was backward and would take at least 30 to 40 years to catch up
with the West.. She would then still be a second rank power and depend
on the leadership and goodwill of the West to prosper. Not anymore.
A personal and humorous anecdote was I met a Canadian Chinese who
taught English in Guangdong. He enjoyed his time there and said that
although in absolute terms, his pay wasn't much, he was very well off
by local standards.
Hey cool ! My little brother is out in China teaching English.
In Leshan, Sichuan province.
He reckons it's a brilliant place, very friendly people, great food etc....
His second year there now, he was so impressed with the place, he went
back for more.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
NFS Porsche Unleashed, Hot Pursuit 2, Underground.
Yeowww
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Corruption in the PRC |
01 Nov 2004 11:07:48 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:55:22 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.10.29.07.09.42.666003@ms74.hinet.net>...
Well, the CCP could open up China to free and full investigation of
human rights violations. Do you think that will happen any day soon?
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the satisfy
the whims of China bashers.
False. The government of the PRC should be "of the people, for the people
and by the people, but it isn't. The CCP runs the PRC government in the
interests of the party members.
BTW, I have noticed that you decide whether people are credible based
upon what they say or based on whether they are CCP leaders.
Not at all. I based on objective evidence and I based on whether some
one is in a position to judge. If there are opposite views on an issue,
I tend to believe the insider more than someone who is ignorant about
China and Chinese.
So, when the leaders of the CCP say that government corruption in the PRC
is so bad that its continued existence would threaten the survival of the
CCP, you conclude what, exactly?
So, to you, people who say that the CCP is corrupt are not credible.
Again. What you say about me is not true? The PRC of course, has
corruption.
Ah, the PRC has corruption. What is the cause of the PRC's corruption? Who
is to blame?
The usual point of departure what should be done to make the system
better. Many think democracy and etc can help. In contrast, I find
western democracy not useful.
Well, that's a coherent position, even though it is contrary to all of the
evidence.
How do you decide "credibility" when CCP leaders say that the CCP is
corrupt?
Show me what "CCP leaders say."
Oh, so now, the CCP leaders did not say the CCP members are corrupt?
When I say that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed in China, you say
I am not credible.
What do you say when the CCP says that the Roman Catholic Church is
outlawed?
Many organizations are outlawed in many places.
Gibberish. The RCC is outlawed in the PRC. Fact. Don't dodge it. Don't lie
and wander into other subjects.
The Roman Catholic Church had behaved badly. They had inflicted pain and
suffering to the Chinese people in the past. The current Pope had
apolozied for their past misbehavior. Anyway, if you are talking about
religious freedom, Roman Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on
Catholicism just like Al Qadea does not have a monopoly on Islam.
Catholicism is not outlawed in China. On the contrary, it is thriving.
The Roman Catholic Church is outlawed. There are other permitted and other
forbidden churches.
Can you simply face the fact and say, truthfully, "The Roman Catholic
Church is outlawed in the PRC". You may praise the policy or not, I don't
care.
How about you simply admit it?
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
I have personally read multiple reliable accounts of Tibetans being
persecuted by the CCP.
You are welcomed to share this reliable accounts.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.dimmid.org/en/..%255Cdata%255C10%255CE10%2520Monks%2520and%2520Nuns%2520persecuted.doc&e=747
"Ever since 1996 China has been intensifying its repression of the Tibetan
people because of their resistance to its patriotic re-education program.
Prisons and work camps are filled with young monks and nuns who are
cruelly tortured because they refuse to renounce His Holiness the Dalai
Lama. Many Tibetan parents, wishing to give their children the chance to
be brought up in their own religion and their own culture – perhaps even
to become monks – entrust them to “ferrymen” who take them to I"
The above is one of many sources I found when I googled "Tibetan nuns
persecuted".
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption in the PRC |
02 Nov 2004 06:36:26 AM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:55:22 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.10.29.07.09.42.666003@ms74.hinet.net>...
Well, the CCP could open up China to free and full investigation of
human rights violations. Do you think that will happen any day soon?
The PRC exists to maximize the Chinese people's benefit, not the satisfy
the whims of China bashers.
False. The government of the PRC should be "of the people, for the people
and by the people, but it isn't. The CCP runs the PRC government in the
interests of the party members.
You are talking about American's money politics.
BTW, I have noticed that you decide whether people are credible based
upon what they say or based on whether they are CCP leaders.
Not at all. I based on objective evidence and I based on whether some
one is in a position to judge. If there are opposite views on an issue,
I tend to believe the insider more than someone who is ignorant about
China and Chinese.
So, when the leaders of the CCP say that government corruption in the PRC
is so bad that its continued existence would threaten the survival of the
CCP, you conclude what, exactly?
Who said what at when? You want me to comment on something. Shouldn't
you at least provide the actual quote?
So, to you, people who say that the CCP is corrupt are not credible.
Again. What you say about me is not true? The PRC of course, has
corruption.
Ah, the PRC has corruption. What is the cause of the PRC's corruption? Who
is to blame?
Human nature. What else?
The usual point of departure what should be done to make the system
better. Many think democracy and etc can help. In contrast, I find
western democracy not useful.
Well, that's a coherent position, even though it is contrary to all of the
evidence.
How do you decide "credibility" when CCP leaders say that the CCP is
corrupt?
Show me what "CCP leaders say."
Oh, so now, the CCP leaders did not say the CCP members are corrupt?
I don't know unless you can provide the quote.
When I say that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed in China, you say
I am not credible.
What do you say when the CCP says that the Roman Catholic Church is
outlawed?
Many organizations are outlawed in many places.
Gibberish. The RCC is outlawed in the PRC. Fact. Don't dodge it. Don't lie
and wander into other subjects.
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
The Roman Catholic Church had behaved badly. They had inflicted pain and
suffering to the Chinese people in the past. The current Pope had
apolozied for their past misbehavior. Anyway, if you are talking about
religious freedom, Roman Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on
Catholicism just like Al Qadea does not have a monopoly on Islam.
Catholicism is not outlawed in China. On the contrary, it is thriving.
The Roman Catholic Church is outlawed. There are other permitted and other
forbidden churches.
Can you simply face the fact and say, truthfully, "The Roman Catholic
Church is outlawed in the PRC". You may praise the policy or not, I don't
care.
How about you simply admit it?
I haven't read any order or law banning the RCC. Have you?
If you personally know nuns tortured for singing Tibetan songs, I
would like to hear more from you.
I have personally read multiple reliable accounts of Tibetans being
persecuted by the CCP.
You are welcomed to share this reliable accounts.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.dimmid.org/en/..%255Cdata%255C10%255CE10%2520Monks%2520and%2520Nuns%2520persecuted.doc&e=747
"Ever since 1996 China has been intensifying its repression of the Tibetan
people because of their resistance to its patriotic re-education program.
Prisons and work camps are filled with young monks and nuns who are
cruelly tortured because they refuse to renounce His Holiness the Dalai
Lama. Many Tibetan parents, wishing to give their children the chance to
be brought up in their own religion and their own culture – perhaps even
to become monks – entrust them to “ferrymen” who take them to I"
The above is one of many sources I found when I googled "Tibetan nuns
persecuted".
Sorry. I don't found the above convincing at all. Just one more
unsubstantiated and unsubtantiable reports.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption in the PRC |
02 Nov 2004 08:14:22 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 04:36:26 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
False. The government of the PRC should be "of the people, for the
people and by the people, but it isn't. The CCP runs the PRC government
in the interests of the party members.
You are talking about American's money politics.
Well, no, because in American even the poorest has one vote and the
richest has no more than one vote.
So, when the leaders of the CCP say that government corruption in the
PRC is so bad that its continued existence would threaten the survival
of the CCP, you conclude what, exactly?
Who said what at when? You want me to comment on something. Shouldn't
you at least provide the actual quote?
Aren't you the expert on what the CCP says?
Please choose:
1. Mr. Lee denies that any CCP leader every said such a thing (and he will
eat crow when he is proved wrong).
2. Mr. Lee wants to leave it open that others can find the quote that he
knows is there so he doesn't actually deny it.
Ah, the PRC has corruption. What is the cause of the PRC's corruption?
Who is to blame?
Human nature. What else?
Great. A good beginning. All CCP members are humans. They have human
nature. If they have unchecked power, they will be very corrupt.
Are we agreed?
Gibberish. The RCC is outlawed in the PRC. Fact. Don't dodge it. Don't
lie and wander into other subjects.
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
Ask Mr. Yu for the details (or you can ask the Vatican). It is not a
secret that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed.
Can you simply face the fact and say, truthfully, "The Roman Catholic
Church is outlawed in the PRC". You may praise the policy or not, I
don't care.
How about you simply admit it?
I haven't read any order or law banning the RCC. Have you?
Yes. And if you are actually that ignorant, you should be ashamed of
yourself.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.dimmid.org/en/..%255Cdata%255C10%255CE10%2520Monks%2520and%2520Nuns%2520persecuted.doc&e=747
"Ever since 1996 China has been intensifying its repression of the
Tibetan people because of their resistance to its patriotic
re-education program. Prisons and work camps are filled with young
monks and nuns who are cruelly tortured because they refuse to renounce
His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Many Tibetan parents, wishing to give
their children the chance to be brought up in their own religion and
their own culture – perhaps even to become monks – entrust them to
“ferrymen” who take them to I"
The above is one of many sources I found when I googled "Tibetan nuns
persecuted".
Sorry. I don't found the above convincing at all.
The only reason this and the many other reports don't convince you is that
your mind is closed.
Just one more unsubstantiated and unsubtantiable reports.
But you are not even looking for facts. You have made up your mind, and no
amount of evidence can change your opinion.
Don't you know that Deng said to search for the truth from facts?
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
.
|
|
|
| User: "LT Lee" |
|
| Title: Searching the truth from facts Re: Corruption in the PRC |
03 Nov 2004 12:05:33 PM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.02.14.14.18.912250@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 04:36:26 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
False. The government of the PRC should be "of the people, for the
people and by the people, but it isn't. The CCP runs the PRC government
in the interests of the party members.
You are talking about American's money politics.
Well, no, because in American even the poorest has one vote and the
richest has no more than one vote.
So, when the leaders of the CCP say that government corruption in the
PRC is so bad that its continued existence would threaten the survival
of the CCP, you conclude what, exactly?
Who said what at when? You want me to comment on something. Shouldn't
you at least provide the actual quote?
Aren't you the expert on what the CCP says?
Please choose:
1. Mr. Lee denies that any CCP leader every said such a thing (and he will
eat crow when he is proved wrong).
2. Mr. Lee wants to leave it open that others can find the quote that he
knows is there so he doesn't actually deny it.
What do you want to discuss? Me? I am not interested.
If you still want me comment on something some PRC leaders had said.
Please provide the actual quote.
Ah, the PRC has corruption. What is the cause of the PRC's corruption?
Who is to blame?
Human nature. What else?
Great. A good beginning. All CCP members are humans. They have human
nature. If they have unchecked power, they will be very corrupt.
Are we agreed?
According to your thinking, God is by definition very corrupt.
Sorry, I don't agree with you. The objective condition of corruption
is a mismatch between one's power and one's desire. If one has the
capability to make a million a year, then he does not need to get a
million a year through corrupted practice.
Gibberish. The RCC is outlawed in the PRC. Fact. Don't dodge it. Don't
lie and wander into other subjects.
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
Ask Mr. Yu for the details (or you can ask the Vatican). It is not a
secret that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed.
If it is not a secret, then you must be able to provide the relevant
information to prove your point.
Can you simply face the fact and say, truthfully, "The Roman Catholic
Church is outlawed in the PRC". You may praise the policy or not, I
don't care.
How about you simply admit it?
I haven't read any order or law banning the RCC. Have you?
Yes. And if you are actually that ignorant, you should be ashamed of
yourself.
If you know there are order and/or law banning the RCC, please provide
the source.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.dimmid.org/en/..%255Cdata%255C10%255CE10%2520Monks%2520and%2520Nuns%2520persecuted.doc&e=747
"Ever since 1996 China has been intensifying its repression of the
Tibetan people because of their resistance to its patriotic
re-education program. Prisons and work camps are filled with young
monks and nuns who are cruelly tortured because they refuse to renounce
His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Many Tibetan parents, wishing to give
their children the chance to be brought up in their own religion and
their own culture – perhaps even to become monks – entrust them to
“ferrymen” who take them to I"
The above is one of many sources I found when I googled "Tibetan nuns
persecuted".
Sorry. I don't found the above convincing at all.
The only reason this and the many other reports don't convince you is that
your mind is closed.
I consider myself open-minded. I spent a lot of effort to learn
English so that I can access more information.
Just one more unsubstantiated and unsubtantiable reports.
But you are not even looking for facts. You have made up your mind, and no
amount of evidence can change your opinion.
Don't you know that Deng said to search for the truth from facts?
I know. And I had found out several things including the following:
1. Certain serious accusations against China concerning Tibet were
fabricated.
2. Certain pro-Tibet organization is racist.
3. Many pro-Tibet activists are practicing a kind of idolatory.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yu" |
|
| Title: Re: Searching the truth from facts Re: Corruption in the PRC |
04 Nov 2004 02:31:43 AM |
|
|
(LT Lee) wrote in message news:<5eb15984.0411031005.335a8dfc@posting.google.com>...
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.02.14.14.18.912250@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 04:36:26 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
Ask Mr. Yu for the details (or you can ask the Vatican). It is not a
secret that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed.
RCC was not banned in China, just that Vatican no longer appoint
bishops etc in China. I have already explained, it's because of
Vatican ordered Chinese Catholic not to resist the Japanese Fascists
during WW2.
NAZI and RCC had some dirty business going on between them.
The pope did nothing about the killing of Jews as well.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Searching the truth from facts Re: Corruption in the PRC |
04 Nov 2004 02:42:14 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:31:43 -0800, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
ltlee1@hotmail.com (LT Lee) wrote in message
news:<5eb15984.0411031005.335a8dfc@posting.google.com>...
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.02.14.14.18.912250@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 04:36:26 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and
wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
Ask Mr. Yu for the details (or you can ask the Vatican). It is not a
secret that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed.
RCC was not banned in China, just that Vatican no longer appoint bishops
etc in China.
OK, now let us tell the truth.
The CCP outlawed the Roman Catholic Church, and set up a "We are Patriotic
CCP loving Catholic Church". Those who continued to attend the RCC were
persecuted.
I have already explained, it's because of Vatican ordered Chinese
Catholic not to resist the Japanese Fascists during WW2.
False. Never happened.
NAZI and RCC had some dirty business going on between them. The pope did
nothing about the killing of Jews as well.
Did nothing is too strong. (BTW, the USA and the CCP also did not do much
in regard to the Holocaust).
Even if the Pope murdered Mao with his bare hands, that would not be
justification for persecuting members of the Roman Catholic Church.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yu" |
|
| Title: Re: Searching the truth from facts Re: Corruption in the PRC |
05 Nov 2004 12:58:52 AM |
|
|
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.04.08.42.11.736216@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:31:43 -0800, Yu thought carefully and wrote:
ltlee1@hotmail.com (LT Lee) wrote in message
news:<5eb15984.0411031005.335a8dfc@posting.google.com>...
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.02.14.14.18.912250@ms74.hinet.net>...
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 04:36:26 -0800, LT Lee thought carefully and
wrote:
Jim Walsh <jimwalsh@ms74.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.01.17.07.44.273236@ms74.hinet.net>...
Please show the information demonstrating that the RCC is outlawed.
Ask Mr. Yu for the details (or you can ask the Vatican). It is not a
secret that the Roman Catholic Church is outlawed.
RCC was not banned in China, just that Vatican no longer appoint bishops
etc in China.
OK, now let us tell the truth.
The CCP outlawed the Roman Catholic Church, and set up a "We are Patriotic
CCP loving Catholic Church". Those who continued to attend the RCC were
persecuted.
Chinese Catholic who are patriotic wish to draw a line between them
and the Vatican who are NAZI collabrators.
I have already explained, it's because of Vatican ordered Chinese
Catholic not to resist the Japanese Fascists during WW2.
False. Never happened.
Vatican colaboration with NAZI in Europe was well documented.
Just because you hate CCP, you try to cover up Vatican's crime in
colaborating with the Japanese fascists.
Vatican NAZI colaboration took place world wide, not only in Europe
and Asia but also in S America where fascist prists help NAZI war
criminals settled down and escape justice.
In China the Vatican recognized the Manzhuguo set up by the Japanese
invaders with the last emperor as puppet.
NAZI and RCC had some dirty business going on between them. The pope did
nothing about the killing of Jews as well.
Did nothing is too strong. (BTW, the USA and the CCP also did not do much
in regard to the Holocaust).
Catholic Church help demonized Jews and make persecution of Jew
respectable.
Even if the Pope murdered Mao with his bare hands, that would not be
justification for persecuting members of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Pope instigated the murder of millions.
He tolerated their perverted prists.
Not only that he make them Saint.
eg.
Aldericus Crescitelli, an infamous Italian missionary canonized today,
was notorious for taking the "right to the first night" of each bride
under his diocese.
Ordinary Catholic in China join the patriotic Catholic church. They
were not persecuted.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jim Walsh" |
|
| Title: Re: Searching the truth from facts Re: Corruption in the PRC |
0 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
