Religions > Atheism > Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Elroy Willis" |
| Date: |
15 Jan 2004 08:04:09 AM |
| Object: |
Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
Daystar was founded by Marcus and Joni Lamb, who are two of the most
transparent, ignorant, self-righteous fundies I've seen on TV over the
last decade, but they're raking in the millions with their frequent
pledge drives. One show of theirs that stands out in my mind is of
them offering to burn up viewers' debts, right there on TV, in some
little flaming altar that they'd built on stage. Send us a minimum of
$1000 and we'll write your name on a little piece of paper and throw
it in the altar, into the fire, and your debts will be burned up and
you might even receive a financial miracle from the Lord!
Credit cards accepted...
In fact, there are 16 ways you can donate to Daystar!
From:
http://www.daystar.com/16ways.htm
"Gifts of Property
Daystar welcomes such donations as timeshares and vacation homes,
buildings, vehicles, aircraft, jewelry and boats. The gift value for
tax deduction purposes is determined by appraisal or a record of
purchase.
Gifts of Real Estate
A gift of real estate can provide considerable savings in capital
gains taxes due upon the sale of appreciated property. At the same
time, you receive a charitable deduction for the full market value of
the property as determined by appraisal. Gifts of appreciated real
estate are fully deductible up to a maximum of 30% of your adjusted
gross income. The unused portion of your donation can usually be
carried forward and deducted over a maximum of five subsequent years
with the same 20% maximum each year, subject to certain limitations."
I don't want to list any more in order to save space, but I encourage
everyone to read them all, to see how greedy and corrupt the Daystar
cult really is.
This is *scary* to me. Take a look at all 16 of the ways to donate to
Daystar, and tell me that they aren't a cult out to get money from
people, however they can manage to do so.
Anyway, Daystar used to be channel 29, so I flipped over to channel 29
to see if they were still there, and I found an infomercial for
AbGlide or some other home gym equipment, so it looks like some
network changing has gone on that I didn't know about. I wonder
if the commercials during the infomercial are religious in nature, but
I didn't really pay attention at the time, or probably didn't stick
around long enough to make it to a commercial in the first place.
After Googling around, I found out what's going on, at least with
channel 2. Channel 29 will have to wait until later...
http://www.kera.org/ContactUs/pressreleases/20030812KDTNsale.html
"NORTH TEXAS PUBLIC BROADCASTING AGREES TO SELL KDTN
CHANNEL 2"
"DALLAS, August 12, 2003 - North Texas Public Broadcasting (NTPB),
which encompasses KERA 13, KERA 90.1 FM and KDTN, has entered into an
agreement to sell KDTN to Community Television Educators of DFW, Inc.
The sale will result in the transfer of the non-commercial licenses
for KDTN and Channel 43, the digital frequency for KDTN, to Community
Television Educators of DFW, Inc.'s Daystar Television Network, the
second largest religious broadcaster in the world. The deal requires
FCC approval, and is anticipated to close in the fall."
So, apparently the FCC approval went through, and now we have
one less PBS station here in Dallas/Ft. Worth. I wonder if channel
13 is next on the list of buyouts?
I don't like the sound of "Community Television Educators" and
"Daystar" in the same sentence... It's a scary thought actually,
almost an oxymoron like "Creation Scientist."
What did I find in place of Bill Moyers and BBS news?
Benny Hinn, and his guest, who was yapping about the human liver
and DNA being absolute proof of God.
I can't remember his guest's name, but he seemed to be fascinated
with how remarkable the human liver is, being able to filter out
toxins and what not, and after a few minutes, he said "That's proof
of God right there, folks..." I have to wonder if he wasn't a former
alcoholic or something, but I can't remember his name so I can't
check him out right now...
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce a
generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation mated
with each other, and produced another generation with no eyes, but
when those were mated, the third generation was born with the eyes
back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of "self-correcting"
mechanism in place to correct mutations after a few generations, and
that all species eventually "change back into" the original species or
"kinds" that God made one day.
Anyway, I don't like the idea of Daystar or "Community Television
Educators" being in charge of what used to be a pretty good channel
around here, which had some science shows, BBS news, business news,
ethical debates, etc.
Any other North Texans around here concerned about this change?
I didn't watch channel 2 all that much, but it's a shame to see it
being taken over by Daystar, and I have a feeling that the few shows
I did tune into before will be gone, now that Daystar is in charge of
things.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 08:19:54 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
Daystar was founded by Marcus and Joni Lamb, who are two of the most
transparent, ignorant, self-righteous fundies I've seen on TV over the
last decade, but they're raking in the millions with their frequent
pledge drives. One show of theirs that stands out in my mind is of
them offering to burn up viewers' debts, right there on TV, in some
little flaming altar that they'd built on stage. Send us a minimum of
$1000 and we'll write your name on a little piece of paper and throw
it in the altar, into the fire, and your debts will be burned up and
you might even receive a financial miracle from the Lord!
Credit cards accepted...
In fact, there are 16 ways you can donate to Daystar!
From:
http://www.daystar.com/16ways.htm
"Gifts of Property
Daystar welcomes such donations as timeshares and vacation homes,
buildings, vehicles, aircraft, jewelry and boats. The gift value for
tax deduction purposes is determined by appraisal or a record of
purchase.
Gifts of Real Estate
A gift of real estate can provide considerable savings in capital
gains taxes due upon the sale of appreciated property. At the same
time, you receive a charitable deduction for the full market value of
the property as determined by appraisal. Gifts of appreciated real
estate are fully deductible up to a maximum of 30% of your adjusted
gross income. The unused portion of your donation can usually be
carried forward and deducted over a maximum of five subsequent years
with the same 20% maximum each year, subject to certain limitations."
I don't want to list any more in order to save space, but I encourage
everyone to read them all, to see how greedy and corrupt the Daystar
cult really is.
This is *scary* to me. Take a look at all 16 of the ways to donate to
Daystar, and tell me that they aren't a cult out to get money from
people, however they can manage to do so.
Anyway, Daystar used to be channel 29, so I flipped over to channel 29
to see if they were still there, and I found an infomercial for
AbGlide or some other home gym equipment, so it looks like some
network changing has gone on that I didn't know about. I wonder
if the commercials during the infomercial are religious in nature, but
I didn't really pay attention at the time, or probably didn't stick
around long enough to make it to a commercial in the first place.
After Googling around, I found out what's going on, at least with
channel 2. Channel 29 will have to wait until later...
http://www.kera.org/ContactUs/pressreleases/20030812KDTNsale.html
"NORTH TEXAS PUBLIC BROADCASTING AGREES TO SELL KDTN
CHANNEL 2"
"DALLAS, August 12, 2003 - North Texas Public Broadcasting (NTPB),
which encompasses KERA 13, KERA 90.1 FM and KDTN, has entered into an
agreement to sell KDTN to Community Television Educators of DFW, Inc.
The sale will result in the transfer of the non-commercial licenses
for KDTN and Channel 43, the digital frequency for KDTN, to Community
Television Educators of DFW, Inc.'s Daystar Television Network, the
second largest religious broadcaster in the world. The deal requires
FCC approval, and is anticipated to close in the fall."
So, apparently the FCC approval went through, and now we have
one less PBS station here in Dallas/Ft. Worth. I wonder if channel
13 is next on the list of buyouts?
I don't like the sound of "Community Television Educators" and
"Daystar" in the same sentence... It's a scary thought actually,
almost an oxymoron like "Creation Scientist."
What did I find in place of Bill Moyers and BBS news?
Benny Hinn, and his guest, who was yapping about the human liver
and DNA being absolute proof of God.
I can't remember his guest's name, but he seemed to be fascinated
with how remarkable the human liver is, being able to filter out
toxins and what not, and after a few minutes, he said "That's proof
of God right there, folks..." I have to wonder if he wasn't a former
alcoholic or something, but I can't remember his name so I can't
check him out right now...
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce a
generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation mated
with each other, and produced another generation with no eyes, but
when those were mated, the third generation was born with the eyes
back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of "self-correcting"
mechanism in place to correct mutations after a few generations, and
that all species eventually "change back into" the original species or
"kinds" that God made one day.
Anyway, I don't like the idea of Daystar or "Community Television
Educators" being in charge of what used to be a pretty good channel
around here, which had some science shows, BBS news, business news,
ethical debates, etc.
Any other North Texans around here concerned about this change?
I didn't watch channel 2 all that much, but it's a shame to see it
being taken over by Daystar, and I have a feeling that the few shows
I did tune into before will be gone, now that Daystar is in charge of
things.
Does anyone in talk.origins recognize the description of the guest
who I saw on Benny Hinn? It's the first I've seen of him, but since
I slept since last night, I can't remember his name.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 10:09:06 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Warning... Long rant ahead...
Talking to myself again, until someone else decides to reply...
In fact, there are 16 ways you can donate to Daystar!
From:
http://www.daystar.com/16ways.htm
This one's a doozy!
"Charitable Gift Annuities
A charitable gift annuity (CGA) is a contractual arrangement between
you and Daystar that is available in most states. Christian Community
Foundation is our charitable gift annuity provider. You make an
irrevocable gift of cash, securities, or real estate (minimum $25,000)
in exchange for fixed payments for life, with the remaining value
benefiting Daystar at your death."
Is that cultwork at work, or what?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "Noelie S. Alito" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 06:35:50 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:5oed001m3ua7j9jdlo4ajrue3vt9pegckp@4ax.com...
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Warning... Long rant ahead...
Talking to myself again, until someone else decides to reply...
In fact, there are 16 ways you can donate to Daystar!
From:
http://www.daystar.com/16ways.htm
This one's a doozy!
"Charitable Gift Annuities
A charitable gift annuity (CGA) is a contractual arrangement between
you and Daystar that is available in most states. Christian Community
Foundation is our charitable gift annuity provider. You make an
irrevocable gift of cash, securities, or real estate (minimum $25,000)
in exchange for fixed payments for life, with the remaining value
benefiting Daystar at your death."
Is that cultwork at work, or what?
A CGA is a fairly vanilla mechanism used for donations to established
mainstream charities. You have to be confident that you won't get
bumped off by someone who wants to end the annuity, though. ;-)
Noelie
CGA donor for the Save the Skeet Foundation
--
Where there's a will, there's an inheritance tax.
.
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| User: "darth_versive" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 01:28:01 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
This is a sad but true reality. I think this is a consequence of us
being too complacent, of just sitting back and imagining that just
because we have the scientific facts on our side, that this
automatically means that the general public will support us. This
business with Daystar taking over channel 2 shows that this assumption
is incorrect.
The fundies are just better organized and better funded than we are at
the local, grassroots level. Those who are pro-science spend lots of
resources funding legitimate scientific research nationwide through
government grants, etc., but we have very little in the way of local,
grassroots organization devoted to help spread that knowledge among
the general public. What we have instead are the public schools, and
colleges and universities. They do what they can, but they are not
designed to directly counter and refute creationist pseudoscience, or
reach out to the general public. They just teach legitimate science
to those students who want to learn about these things, and largely
ignore the nonsense the fundies are substituting for real science.
The fundies, on the other hand, devote no resources to legitimate
research, but devote a large chunk of their resources to their
organizational efforts, which are designed to spread their
pseudoscience at the local, grassroots level, using such organs as
Daystar. And an example of this is what you noted below:
Benny Hinn, and his guest, who was yapping about the human liver
and DNA being absolute proof of God.
I can't remember his guest's name, but he seemed to be fascinated
with how remarkable the human liver is, being able to filter out
toxins and what not, and after a few minutes, he said "That's proof
of God right there, folks..." I have to wonder if he wasn't a former
alcoholic or something, but I can't remember his name so I can't
check him out right now...
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce a
generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation mated
with each other, and produced another generation with no eyes, but
when those were mated, the third generation was born with the eyes
back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of "self-correcting"
mechanism in place to correct mutations after a few generations, and
that all species eventually "change back into" the original species
or
"kinds" that God made one day.
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network devoted
to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating more interest
among the general public for legitimate science, perhaps we can still
salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows what might happen in the
next few years?
DV
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 05:01:08 PM |
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(darth_versive) wrote in
news:8e0e3045.0401151131.4affe3b2@posting.google.com:
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
<snippage>
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce
a generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation
mated with each other, and produced another generation with no
eyes, but when those were mated, the third generation was born
with the eyes back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of
"self-correcting" mechanism in place to correct mutations after a
few generations, and that all species eventually "change back
into" the original species
or
"kinds" that God made one day.
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network
devoted to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating
more interest among the general public for legitimate science,
perhaps we can still salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows
what might happen in the next few years?
We really don't have a choice but to gather grassroots support. It's
basically what the christers started doing in the 1970's, building support
a little at a time, getting their mouthpieces into local City Councils and
school boards, building from local-level to what we have today.
It's time to fight back.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dissent is not a right.
It is a RESPONSIBILITY.
--me.
.
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| User: "Harlequin" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 06:23:32 PM |
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Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9471ADC6161CCaskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18:
darth_versive@yahoo.com (darth_versive) wrote in
news:8e0e3045.0401151131.4affe3b2@posting.google.com:
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
<snippage>
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to
produce a generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This
generation mated with each other, and produced another
generation with no eyes, but when those were mated, the third
generation was born with the eyes back in place. He claims that
DNA has some type of "self-correcting" mechanism in place to
correct mutations after a few generations, and that all species
eventually "change back into" the original species
or
"kinds" that God made one day.
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network
devoted to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating
more interest among the general public for legitimate science,
perhaps we can still salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows
what might happen in the next few years?
We really don't have a choice but to gather grassroots support. It's
basically what the christers started doing in the 1970's, building
support a little at a time, getting their mouthpieces into local City
Councils and school boards, building from local-level to what we have
today.
It's time to fight back.
Step 1: Join the National Center for Science Education.
http://www.ncseweb.org/membership.asp
Step 2: Sign up with local moderated email lists that moniter
creationist activity
http://www.aibs.org/mailing-lists/the_aibs-ncse_evolution_list_server.html
Step 3: That probably depends on you local situtation.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet" with "harlequin2"
If you are wondering how they explain biology, geology, astronomy,
physics, and other science facts...la la la...just say to yourself,
'creationism is just a show and that I really should just relax
for _Mystery Intelligent Design Theater 3000_.'
.
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| User: "darth_versive" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
16 Jan 2004 12:48:32 AM |
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Harlequin <usenet@cox.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9471BBA16EEEEusenet123mmcablecom@68.12.19.6>...
Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote
darth_versive@yahoo.com (darth_versive) wrote in
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network
devoted to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating
more interest among the general public for legitimate science,
perhaps we can still salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows
what might happen in the next few years?
We really don't have a choice but to gather grassroots support. It's
basically what the christers started doing in the 1970's, building
support a little at a time, getting their mouthpieces into local City
Councils and school boards, building from local-level to what we have
today.
It's time to fight back.
Step 1: Join the National Center for Science Education.
http://www.ncseweb.org/membership.asp
There's nothing wrong with this. But it's not a local, grassroots
organization.
Step 2: Sign up with local moderated email lists that moniter
creationist activity
Again, there's nothing wrong with this. But monitoring their activity
is not the same as building a local, grassroots organization.
http://www.aibs.org/mailing-lists/the_aibs-ncse_evolution_list_server.html
Step 3: That probably depends on you local situtation.
Yes. This is where we need to get started. There's plenty of talking
and monitoring at the national, state and local level. But what's
missing is the counterpart to the main effort of the fundies: the
local, grassroots organization dedicated to reaching people at the
local, grassroots level.
DV
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| User: "darth_versive" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
16 Jan 2004 12:36:13 AM |
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Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9471ADC6161CCaskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18>...
darth_versive@yahoo.com (darth_versive) wrote in
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network
devoted to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating
more interest among the general public for legitimate science,
perhaps we can still salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows
what might happen in the next few years?
We really don't have a choice but to gather grassroots support. It's
basically what the christers started doing in the 1970's, building support
a little at a time, getting their mouthpieces into local City Councils and
school boards, building from local-level to what we have today.
It's time to fight back.
Right. Getting started gradually, and then building up local
grassroots support one step at a time. But definitely getting
started.
The attitude of complacency that pervades much of the pro-science
camp--that just because we have the scientific facts on our side, that
this will eventually translate into public support with little or no
effort on our part to get the word out, even in the face of the
determined grassroots organizational effort by the fundies to distort
and discredit science--is what has to be overcome. Along with the
natural inertia that resists any change in attitude or behavior.
But complacency dies hard. We've got our work cut out for us.
DV
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| User: "darth_versive" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 01:06:19 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:<kt1d00931j7g7t0tqvbca4c827a99dstd9@4ax.com>...
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
This is a sad but true reality. I think this is a consequence of us
being too complacent, of just sitting back and imagining that just
because we have the scientific facts on our side, that this
automatically means that the general public will support us. This
business with Daystar taking over channel 2 shows that this assumption
is incorrect.
The fundies are just better organized and better funded than we are at
the local, grassroots level. Those who are pro-science spend lots of
resources funding legitimate scientific research nationwide through
government grants, etc., but we have very little in the way of local,
grassroots organization devoted to help spread that knowledge among
the general public. What we have instead are the public schools, and
colleges and universities. They do what they can, but they are not
designed to directly counter and refute creationist pseudoscience, or
reach out to the general public. They just teach legitimate science
to those students who want to learn about these things, and largely
ignore the nonsense the fundies are substituting for real science.
The fundies, on the other hand, devote no resources to legitimate
research, but devote a large chunk of their resources to their
organizational efforts, which are designed to spread their
pseudoscience at the local, grassroots level, using such organs as
Daystar. And an example of this is what you noted below:
Benny Hinn, and his guest, who was yapping about the human liver
and DNA being absolute proof of God.
I can't remember his guest's name, but he seemed to be fascinated
with how remarkable the human liver is, being able to filter out
toxins and what not, and after a few minutes, he said "That's proof
of God right there, folks..." I have to wonder if he wasn't a former
alcoholic or something, but I can't remember his name so I can't
check him out right now...
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce a
generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation mated
with each other, and produced another generation with no eyes, but
when those were mated, the third generation was born with the eyes
back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of "self-correcting"
mechanism in place to correct mutations after a few generations, and
that all species eventually "change back into" the original species
or
"kinds" that God made one day.
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network devoted
to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating more interest
among the general public for legitimate science, perhaps we can still
salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows what might happen in the
next few years?
DV
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
15 Jan 2004 03:09:09 PM |
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(darth_versive) wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
This is a sad but true reality. I think this is a consequence of us
being too complacent, of just sitting back and imagining that just
because we have the scientific facts on our side, that this
automatically means that the general public will support us. This
business with Daystar taking over channel 2 shows that this
assumption is incorrect.
I have to admit I've never made any donations to channel 2, but I've
made several to channel 13 over the years, so perhaps it's just as
much my fault as anyone else's. There were two or three shows I
usually tried to catch on channel 2, and I don't know if they're gone
or not. I never could figure out if the channel was completely PBS
like channel 13, so it was somewhat of a mystery channel in the first
place... They had some really good debates with Christians, Muslims,
and Jews, all involved in different type discussions, and I wonder if
that was a hint of something more to come, or something that is of the
past. It's hard to say for sure.
The fundies are just better organized and better funded than we are at
the local, grassroots level.
Not to mention that a belief in evolution pretty much means you
won't get to live forever, so there's no real selling-point to it.
Those who are pro-science spend lots of
resources funding legitimate scientific research nationwide through
government grants, etc., but we have very little in the way of local,
grassroots organization devoted to help spread that knowledge among
the general public. What we have instead are the public schools, and
colleges and universities. They do what they can, but they are not
designed to directly counter and refute creationist pseudoscience, or
reach out to the general public. They just teach legitimate science
to those students who want to learn about these things, and largely
ignore the nonsense the fundies are substituting for real science.
The fundies, on the other hand, devote no resources to legitimate
research, but devote a large chunk of their resources to their
organizational efforts, which are designed to spread their
pseudoscience at the local, grassroots level, using such organs as
Daystar. And an example of this is what you noted below:
I hate to say it, but I think the overall interest in science around
the US is pretty much squat, at least among the general population.
Maybe the recent Mars mission and Bush's push to build a base on
the Moon will help revive the interest in science.
I sure hope the second Mars lander doesn't get lost or crashes or
is inoperable when it lands, else it will only cause more scoffing and
disinterest among those who already gripe about the high cost of such
missions.
Benny Hinn, and his guest, who was yapping about the human liver
and DNA being absolute proof of God.
I can't remember his guest's name, but he seemed to be fascinated
with how remarkable the human liver is, being able to filter out
toxins and what not, and after a few minutes, he said "That's proof
of God right there, folks..." I have to wonder if he wasn't a former
alcoholic or something, but I can't remember his name so I can't
check him out right now...
Anybody know who I'm talking about?
Next, he went on to say that DNA is proof of God. He cited an
experiment involving fruit flies which were irradiated to produce a
generation of fruit flies that had no eyes. This generation mated
with each other, and produced another generation with no eyes, but
when those were mated, the third generation was born with the eyes
back in place. He claims that DNA has some type of "self-correcting"
mechanism in place to correct mutations after a few generations, and
that all species eventually "change back into" the original species
or "kinds" that God made one day.
I think if we can develop more of a local, grassroots network devoted
to countering such creationist nonsense and stimulating more interest
among the general public for legitimate science, perhaps we can still
salvage channel 13. Otherwise, who knows what might happen in the
next few years?
I don't see channel 13 as in danger yet, at least I hope not, most of
the time.
On a more positive note, I notice that NASA is asking school children
to send in rocks to be analysed, and they'll be compared to the rocks
on Mars during the upcoming examinations of them, to try to spark an
interest in the young kids out there.
I wonder how may kids will actually send in rocks? Maybe I'll pretend
to be a kid and send in a rock from my backyard, just to support the
effort. From what I gather around here, most kids would rather being
praying to Jesus than exploring the back yard and the rocks in it.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "darth_versive" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
16 Jan 2004 12:00:53 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:<meud00pe4378kn43nv4tv3geioq5va876k@4ax.com>...
darth_versive@yahoo.com (darth_versive) wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
This is a sad but true reality. I think this is a consequence of us
being too complacent, of just sitting back and imagining that just
because we have the scientific facts on our side, that this
automatically means that the general public will support us. This
business with Daystar taking over channel 2 shows that this
assumption is incorrect.
I have to admit I've never made any donations to channel 2, but I've
made several to channel 13 over the years, so perhaps it's just as
much my fault as anyone else's. There were two or three shows I
usually tried to catch on channel 2, and I don't know if they're gone
or not. I never could figure out if the channel was completely PBS
like channel 13, so it was somewhat of a mystery channel in the first
place... They had some really good debates with Christians, Muslims,
and Jews, all involved in different type discussions, and I wonder if
that was a hint of something more to come, or something that is of the
past. It's hard to say for sure.
I know what you mean. Donations to PBS are usually not a high
priority for many PBS watchers. But I don't think that's the real
problem. If there were just a few local, grassroots organizations in
the area, with a total membership of just one medium-size fundie
church, which were devoted to spreading curiosity about science and a
respect for scientific facts, and to educating people about genuine
scientific methods and fundie pseudoscience, that would make a huge
difference, in my view.
Even a very small, but media-savvy, organization could make a
measurable impact on local attitudes. It probably wouldn't be able to
turn things around all by itself, but it might give lots of people
ideas about what could be accomplished if more people got involved.
So it could possibly serve as a catalyst to get the reaction started,
or a spark to light the fuse.
If enough people in the area had been as interested in supporting
science as those who donated to Daystar were in supporting fundyism,
then maybe a pro-science group would have been able to buy channel 2
instead of Daystar.
But we just don't have the local, grassroots organizational base to do
it.
The fundies are just better organized and better funded than we are at
the local, grassroots level.
Not to mention that a belief in evolution pretty much means you
won't get to live forever, so there's no real selling-point to it.
That's right. We have no pie-in-the-sky to offer people to match the
one the fundies are offering. But there *is* genuine curiosity, and
respect, out there for science, especially among those with college
degrees in science. And also among many with no formal education in
the subject, just a fascination for it. We just have very little in
the way of an organized effort to bring such people together in order
to stimulate more curiosity and respect among the general public. The
Science Place and the Dallas Museum of Natural History do their part,
to be sure, but they are public, governmental entities, not local,
grassroots, popular organizations. As such, they are somewhat
restricted in what they can say and do, as are the local colleges and
universities. They have to pull their punches somewhat when it comes
to the fundies, as a matter of policy. The fundies, of course, are
under no such restrictions, and can get away with distorting science
as much as they want to, without fear of repercussions.
Those who are pro-science spend lots of
resources funding legitimate scientific research nationwide through
government grants, etc., but we have very little in the way of local,
grassroots organization devoted to help spread that knowledge among
the general public. What we have instead are the public schools, and
colleges and universities. They do what they can, but they are not
designed to directly counter and refute creationist pseudoscience, or
reach out to the general public. They just teach legitimate science
to those students who want to learn about these things, and largely
ignore the nonsense the fundies are substituting for real science.
The fundies, on the other hand, devote no resources to legitimate
research, but devote a large chunk of their resources to their
organizational efforts, which are designed to spread their
pseudoscience at the local, grassroots level, using such organs as
Daystar. And an example of this is what you noted below:
I hate to say it, but I think the overall interest in science around
the US is pretty much squat, at least among the general population.
Yes. Exactly. This is the problem. And those with respect for
science, and curiosity about science, are largely inactive when it
comes to trying to reach out to the general public in any kind of
organized way. That's my main point: how do we address this problem?
Maybe the recent Mars mission and Bush's push to build a base on
the Moon will help revive the interest in science.
I don't think so. The interest will likely fade away after a few news
cycles when the mission is winding down and is no longer reporting new
discoveries. It always does after some major scientific event. The
general public seems to have a very short attention-span when it comes
to science news. Once the novelty wears off, they're on to something
else. They always are. That's why I think we need a more permanent
network of local, grassroots organizations, made up of those with some
minimum level of formal science education, like a college degree in
one of the sciences, or a certain level of informal self-education.
I sure hope the second Mars lander doesn't get lost or crashes or
is inoperable when it lands, else it will only cause more scoffing and
disinterest among those who already gripe about the high cost of such
missions.
Well, I don't think this will matter that much. The British Beagle-2
seems lost, but since the US probe landed ok, the Mars story is still
big news for now. People expect hits and misses in the space program.
But like I said before, the general public has a very short
attention-span when it comes to science in the news. Whatever happens
in the scientific realm, it doesn't seem to have a lasting effect upon
their general curiosity about, or respect for, science. Like you
said, their overall, long-term interest is pretty much squat.
DV
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dallas PBS Replaced with Daystar Fundy Anti-Evolution Programming |
16 Jan 2004 01:02:44 AM |
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In article <kt1d00931j7g7t0tqvbca4c827a99dstd9@4ax.com>,
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote:
Warning... Long rant ahead...
<grumble grumble>
Last night, while channel flipping and tuning to PBS channel 2 to
catch some nightly BBC and business news, I discovered that channel
2 has been replaced with Daystar network and I found myself
staring at Benny Hinn and some creationist wacko goomer that
he had as a guest, instead of the news I expected to see. WTF is
going on here?
Daystar was founded by Marcus and Joni Lamb, who are two of the most
transparent, ignorant, self-righteous fundies I've seen on TV over the
last decade, but they're raking in the millions with their frequent
pledge drives. One show of theirs that stands out in my mind is of
them offering to burn up viewers' debts, right there on TV, in some
little flaming altar that they'd built on stage. Send us a minimum of
$1000 and we'll write your name on a little piece of paper and throw
it in the altar, into the fire, and your debts will be burned up and
you might even receive a financial miracle from the Lord!
Credit cards accepted...
I'll bet that they get many takers too. That really sucks. PBS is one
of the few remaining reasons why I don't drop kick my TV out the
window. The fundies and their political allies have been trying to do
away with it for years. I guess that they just can't stand any medium
that tries to tell the truth.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
- Question authority. Now more than ever. -
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