"AC" <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnce7dl5.b4m.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net...

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 04:43:42 +0000 (UTC),
Ronald Dean <rond@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"John" <junk@junk.com> wrote in message
news:cbvhds$1hme$1@otis.netspace.net.au...

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0406300435.4503cee7@posting.google.com...

What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of the

Holocaust?

T. H. Huxley's?
Haeckel's?
Nietzsche's?

The Holocaust was caused by blind unthinking alleigance to a hateful

dogma.

Remind you of anything?

This hateful dogma was carrying the science of genetics to it's logical
but inhumane extreme. The Nazis wished to rid the human gene pool
of all heritable genetic diseases and defects. The Nazis wrongly
murdered Jews, Gypses, Slavics and others based upon a
misintrepetation of the science of genetics. They also killed people
with mental and physical defects in order to rid the human gene
pool of perceived heritable diseases.

The idea of the Nordic race being above all others hardly began with
genetics. German anti-Semitism dates back centuries. It is very very
important to understand that those cultural traits that lead to the
extermination of six million Jews by Nazi Germany were not invented by the
Nazis, by twisted notions of genetics, by nasty interpretations of

Darwinian

theory or anything of the kind. The root was centuries of hatred, bigotry
and ignorance which had permeated Christendom.

I go to church on a regular basis, I have yet, to read or hear hatred being
spewed from the pulpit or the materials I read.

So I have seen no evidence
of Christanity being guilty of condoning or spreading hatred.

So I can only conclude that this is a misconception of Christian teachings
by non christians who place their own misintrepretation upon Christian
Faith.

Hatred most often is based upon lack of understanding, fear, envy, and
resentment of perceived wrongs comitteed by the group which are then hated.
The summation of Christian ideals is in these statements, *do unto others as
you would have them do unto you*. *forgive us of our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass against us* and *love thy neighbor as thyself*.
I do not pretend that everyone who claims to be christian conforms to
these ideals, but if they are sincere christian they will try.

Racists like the Nazis, and
like more modern groups, may attempt to use pseudo-science to justify
various noxious claims of the inferiority of certain groups, but

underlying

it is a long cultural heritage. Hitler capitalized on what had been there
since the Christianization of the Germans.

I'm an evolutionist and I strongly object to those who twist and
misrepresent
Darwin's great work in oirder to condemn it. By the same token I also
dislike
people distorting, misrepresenting and presented flawed views of christanity
as real. Those who misrepresent Darwin's work and the people who unjustly
attack Christanity are cut from the same cloth.

He certainly wasn't the first to

attack Jews, Gypsies or Slavs (Slavs were considered lesser beings by the
Teutonic princes in the Dark Ages, just look at how the Carolingians

treated

them).

I don't doubt that, but the fact is that the Jews were hated throughout
their
history. They were driven from their own country before the appearance
of Christanity, yet wherever they went they soon were met with hatred.
One characteristic that they seem to have is their penchant to stick
together
at the exclusion of others. This breeds suspicion, resentment and fear.
Fear brings on hatred. You can see this pattern over and over again. One
classic example is the Mormans.

The Spanish and the English booted out their Jews, and they were feared

and

abused all over Europe hundreds of years before Mendellian genetics even
existed.

There is no question that the Nazis used Genetics to justify the *removal*
of carriers of the mental and physical deformities and disorders.
This was not racism, since it was not limited to a single race or ethnic
group.
But it was a Christian Monk, Gregor Mendel who is ultimately responsible
for the holocaust,

since he discovered the way genes, including heritable
diseases, genetic disorders, both mental and physicials deformities, are
transmitted to later generations. The Nazis's objectives was to build the
Nortic superman by remoiving heritable genetic defects and disorders from
the gene pool and by breeding farms to breed genetically *superior* men
and women.

I go to church on a regular basis, I have yet, to read or hear hatred being
spewed from the pulpit or the materials I read. So I have seen no evidence
of Christanity being guilty of condoning or spreading hatred.
So I can only conclude that this is a misconception of Christian teachings
by non christians who place their own misintrepretation upon Christian
Faith.
Hatred most often is based upon lack of understanding, fear, envy, and
resentment of perceived wrongs comitteed by the group which are then hated.
The summation of Christian ideals is in these statements, *do unto others as
you would have them do unto you*. *forgive us of our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass against us* and *love thy neighbor as thyself*.
I do not pretend that everyone who claims to be christian conforms to
these ideals, but if they are sincere christian they will try.

I don't doubt that, but the fact is that the Jews were hated throughout
their
history. They were driven from their own country before the appearance
of Christanity, yet wherever they went they soon were met with hatred.
One characteristic that they seem to have is their penchant to stick
together
at the exclusion of others. This breeds suspicion, resentment and fear.
Fear brings on hatred. You can see this pattern over and over again. One
classic example is the Mormans.

Ronald Dean <rond@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"Steven J." <sjt1957NOSPAM@nts.link.net.INVALID> wrote in message
news:10e71r0t7j22ba0@corp.supernews.com...

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0406300435.4503cee7@posting.google.com...

What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of the

Catch phrases. Certainly, reading various Nazi writings, one comes

phrases that are far too similar to those in Darwin or his

be dismissed as coincidence (although those who reject common descent

an

explanation for shared pseudogenes really ought, consistently, to

*any* influence of Darwin's writings on the Nazis). The Nazis were
apparently trying to justify their racial policies using Darwinian

but they didn't seem to get the whole point of Darwin's theory.

When was Evolution introduced into German Universes?

They have special German-only universes? I though only the French lived
in their own little worlds...

German universities (he continued, not even shrugging) would have been
aware of transmutational ideas from Goethe and Oken, although the
temporal element was downplayed by them, early in the 19thC. They would
have understood that the idea of species transmutation derived from
older ideas, such as Bonnet's and Buffon's, and that Erasmus Darwin and
Lamarck both published these ideas.

In the period prior to the Origin, Prince Charles Lucien Bonaparte,
Napoleon's nephew, and a regarded ornithologist, argued in favour of
transmutation in 1851. Franz Unger (no relation to Felix), an Austrian
botanist, argued for it in 1852. A year later, Hermann Schaffenhausen
allowed in rebuttal that "[t]he immutability of species ... is not
proven".

Central to Darwin's theory is the idea of variation within breeding

groups,

and the lack of "essential" traits separating one group from another.

rigid distinctions which Nazi "racial science" made between races is
thoroughly antiDarwinian -- Darwin noted, explicitly, that there was

trait possessed by all members of one "race" and no members of

And, of course, the entire notion of eugenics -- *artificial,*
*centrally-planned* selection, is a very different matter (ask any

of natural selection) from the natural selection championed by Darwin.

John Wilkins notes, a eugenicist is someone who doesn't think natural
selection is doing its job.

This is true. Eugenicist attempted to replace *natural selection* with
artificial selection because natural selection was too slow too rambling
and inefficient.

And went in the "wrong" directions...

Artificial selection was controlled and goal oriented.


Ron

T. H. Huxley's?

Nil, as far as I can tell.

Haeckel's?

Ditto. I don't think it was any part of Nazi dogma that, e.g. Jews

modern instances of an earlier stage of "Aryan" evolution. Haeckel

to

have had common German gentile attitudes towards Jews, but Nazi

science" seems to owe more to dog breeding than to anyone's ideas

common descent.

Nietzsche's?

Again, catch phrases rather than actual policies or theories.

-- Steven J.

--
Dr John Wilkins
john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au http://wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon

dford3@gl.umbc.edu (david ford) wrote in message

Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in "Re: Confederate Creationists"
in message news:<erooe0dqurgu2elas50jr9ebehqmfkvtcf@4ax.com>...

dford3@gl.umbc.edu (david ford):

Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote in message

murphyinohio@wmconnect.com (MurphyInOhio):

<snip>

If by "Christian", we mean Christ-like, then practically no one except
Mother Teresa would fit that description.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:48:20 +0000 (UTC),

or should we take your inability to
respond as a tacit agreement that there is no such connection?