| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david ford" |
| Date: |
08 Jul 2004 12:20:26 PM |
| Object: |
Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 06:30:15 PM |
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"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
: What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
: World War I?
: World War II?
:
What , if anything, did you hope to prove with this stupid question ?
Steve
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| User: "Dana Tweedy" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 04:34:50 PM |
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"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
None. He was dead by the time the war started.
World War II?
None. same as above
DJT
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| User: "Richard S. Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 04:38:22 PM |
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Dana Tweedy wrote:
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
None. He was dead by the time the war started.
World War II?
None. same as above
Since when has an inconvenient fact like the truth gotten in the way of
a good Creationist story?
--
Richard Crawford (http://www.mossroot.com)
AIM: Buffalo2K / Y!: rscrawford
Ask me about my opposable thumb!
"When you lose the power to laugh at yourself, you lose the power to
think straight." --Clarence Darrow
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| User: "mvillanu" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 07:05:50 PM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com>...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
Not as much as Chris Columbus.
World War II?
Not as much as Chris Columbus in Europe, and not as much as Admiral
Perry in the Pacific.
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| User: "fencingsax" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
13 Jul 2004 09:56:25 AM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com>...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
About as much as Nietchze's.
(P.S. In other words, about 0)
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| User: "dave e" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 09:18:07 AM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com>...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
And what was Darwin's contribution, if any, to the fact that some
***** took my parking space last week. That really pissed me off.
So if you could come up with some link between Darwin and the loss of
my parking space, that would convince me once and for all to accept
special creation as the origin of man.
Dave
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
10 Jul 2004 03:26:45 AM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com>...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
None.None.
C. DARWIN TO ASA GRAY.
Down, June 5 [1861].
My dear Gray,
.. . .
I never knew the newspapers so profoundly interesting. North America
does not do England justice; I have not seen or heard of a soul who is
not with the North. Some few, and I am one of them, even wish to God,
though at the loss of millions of lives, that the North would proclaim
a crusade against slavery. In the long-run, a million horrid deaths
would be amply repaid in the cause of humanity. What wonderful times
we live in! Massachusetts seems to show noble enthusiasm. Great God!
How I should like to see the greatest curse on earth -- slavery --
abolished!
.. . .
Ever yours,
C. DARWIN.
".. I was crossing a ferry with a negro, who was uncommonly stupid. In
endeavouring to make him understand, I talked loud, and made signs, in
doing which I passed my hand near his face. He, I suppose, thought I
was in a passion, and was going to strike him; for instantly, with a
frightened look and half-shut eyes, he dropped his hands. I shall
never forget my feelings of surprise, disgust, and shame, at seeing a
great powerful man afraid even to ward off a blow, directed, as he
thought, at his face. This man had been trained to a degradation lower
than the slavery of the most helpless animal. " - Charles Dawin in The
Voyage of the Beagle Chapter 2 - Rio de Janeiro
http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-voyage-of-the-beagle/chapter-02.html
"My correspondent thinks with Mr. Jefferson, that Jehovah has no
attributes that will harmonize with slavery; and that all men are born
free and equal. Now, I say let him throw away his Bible as Mr.
Jefferson did his and then they will be fit companions. But never
disgrace the Bible by making Mr. Jefferson its expounder, nor Mr.
Jefferson by deriving his sentiments from it. Mr. Jefferson did not
bow to the authority of the Bible, and on this subject I do not bow to
him."
[Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, D.D., in "Scriptural View of Slavery," a
work showing that the Bible sanctions slavery, from John E. Remsburg,
"Six Historic Americans. Chapter 2: Thomas Jefferson"]
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_2.html
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy
Scriptures, both by precept and example."
[Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina]
"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many
regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."
[Rev. Alexander Campbell]
"The extracts from Holy Writ unequivocally assert the right of
property in slaves."
[Rev. E.D. Simms, professor, Randolph-Macon College]
"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments
to hold the slave in bondage."
[Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]
"In another area of human rights, many Christian clergymen advocated
slavery. Historian Larry Hise notes in his book 'Pro-Slavery' that
ministers 'wrote almost half of all defenses of slavery published in
America.' He lists 275 men of the cloth who used the Bible to prove
that white people were entitled to own black people as work animals."
[James A. Haught, 'Holy Horrors']
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879755784/
"The delegates of the annual conference are decidedly opposed to
modern abolitionism, and wholly disclaim any right, wish, or intention
to interfere in the civil and political relation between master and
slave in the slave-holding states of the union."
[Methodist Episcopal Church, Statement of the General Conference,
Cincinnati, May 1836]
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in
his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially
of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word
be desecrated.
For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their
abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's
creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in
his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his
first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by
word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and
tries to butt into the other."
.... Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will
of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am
fighting for the work of the Lord."
- Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf"
"Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as
before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the
church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by
his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index
of Forbidden Books. "
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_haught/holy.html
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest
not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the
passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and
seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and
adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison."
Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more
profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had
to shed his blood upon the Cross."
As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I
have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice..."
And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting
rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I
have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see
them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they
have only for their wages wretchedness and misery."
When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their
queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no
Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not,
as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom
today this poor people are plundered and exploited."
- Adolf Hitler, "My New Order"
PIUS XII
Eugenio Pacelli, Pope 1939 - 1958
"His Holiness, Pius XII, the best anti-democrat in the world," as he
was in 1950 (!) proudly titled by Ecclesia, official organ of the
Spanish Catholic Action in an attempt to pay him the greatest tribute
a Catholic paper could pay, earlier in his career, as we have seen,
had helped Hitler to come to power in Germany. His policy as a pope
was faithful to his predecessor. When the Spanish republic was finally
defeated by Catholic troops under Franco, would-be dictator of Spain,
the pope sent a special message to the victors:
"With great joy we address you, dearest sons of Catholic Spain,
to express our paternal congratulations for the gift of peace and
victory with which God has chosen to crown the Christian heroism of
your faith
... We give you, our dear sons of Catholic Spain, our apostolic
benediction." [4/17/1939]
Church property and all medieval (!) privileges of the Church were
restored. No other religion was allowed. Protestants and ex-Catholics
were sent to concentration camps for refusing to attend divine
service. Freethinkers, democrats, Socialists and Communists were
deprived of civil rights,imprisoned, or shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pius XI, in his own words a "man with no love for democracy," helped
to bring Mussolini's Fascist Party to power in Italy and in 1926
solemnly declared: "Mussolini is a man sent by Divine Providence."
[MC247] In 1935 Fascist Italy attacked and invaded Abyssinia. Since
the population of Italy lacked enthusiasm for this aggression, the
pope hastened to declare a new crusade. For example the Archbishop of
Tarent, holding a Holy Mass on a submarine, declared: "The war against
Abyssinia should be viewed as a Holy War, as a crusade," which also
opened "Ethiopia, the land of infidels and schismatics, to the
catholic Faith."
The pope's emissary in Germany, Papal Nuncio Eugenio Pacelli, the
future Pope Pius XII, helped to demolish the young Weimar republic.
After the liberal democratic Catholic leader Erzberger had been
assassinated, the Pope's exertions became directed to the support of
all Right-Wing movements in Germany, via the influence of the Catholic
Centre Party. On march 23, 1933, the German Reichstag met, and the
Catholic Party, led by its Catholic leaders, former chancellor Brüning
and prelate Mgr. Kaas, personal friend of Pacelli, voted for Catholic
Hitler. After this, having received, directly from the Vatican, orders
to disband, the Catholic Party dissolved. Preached Pacelli to the
German Catholics:
"...it is all the more necessary that the Catholics, deprived of
diplomatic representation, should find in the diplomatic pacts between
the Holy See and the National Socialist Government guarantees which
can assure them ... the maintenance of their position in the life of
the nation."
Mgr. Kaas, leader of the dissolved Catholic Party, put it even more
bluntly: Catholics must support Hitler, he said. They should not have
any fears about it. For Hitler's ideals were "noble ideals."
Furthermore, "Hitler knows well how to guide the ship." In this way
the first successful democracy on german soil had been destroyed.
[MC250-252]
Hitler and 1,700 years of Christian anti-semitism
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers1.htm
Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
Anti-Semitism and Holocaust
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Holocaust%2C%20Jewish%20%281939-1945%29/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Jews/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Holocaust/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Christianity%20and%20antisemitism/
Jew Jews Jewish
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Jew+OR+Jews+OR+Jewish&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Jew+OR+Jews+OR+Jewish&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Jew+OR+Jews+OR+Jewish&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Jew%20Jews%20Jewish&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Semite Semites semitic semitism
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Semite+OR+Semites+OR+semitic+OR+semitism&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Semite+OR+Semites+OR+semitic+OR+semitism&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Semite+OR+Semites+OR+semitic+OR+semitism&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Semite%20Semites%20semitic%20semitism&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
Holocaust OR Shoah
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Holocaust+OR+Shoah&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Holocaust+OR+Shoah&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Holocaust+OR+Shoah&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Holocaust%20Shoah&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "R.Schenck" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 12:20:28 PM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com>...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
pretty pathetic mr ford, pretty freeking pathetic of you.
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| User: "Hagar" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 12:59:52 PM |
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No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
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| User: "david ford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 09:24:54 PM |
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"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message news:<t0gHc.192$Yo5.62@news02.roc.ny>...
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is conceived of as
consisting of totally non-intelligence-directed processes. In the
words of Dennett, [520]"_everything_ of importance" is [520]"a
byproduct of mindless purposeless forces."
In sharp contrast, the development of WWI's weaponry into the more
sophisticated WWII weaponry proceeded via the application of
intelligence/mind.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 10:22:02 PM |
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"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407081829.37883a1c@posting.google.com...
"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message
news:<t0gHc.192$Yo5.62@news02.roc.ny>...
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes.
From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is conceived of as
consisting of totally non-intelligence-directed processes. In the
words of Dennett, [520]"_everything_ of importance" is [520]"a
byproduct of mindless purposeless forces."
In sharp contrast, the development of WWI's weaponry into the more
sophisticated WWII weaponry proceeded via the application of
intelligence/mind.
Man...the art of analogy is really lost on you isn't it? All analogies
are imperfect. Otherwise they wouldn't be analogies, they would
be descriptions.
Although weaponry evolved through intelligent application, the
analogy can still hold on other planes. Weapons/tactics/fortifications
that were effective continued to develop (tanks, planes, machine
guns, etc).
Less effective weapons/tactics/fortifications (the trench became the
Maginot Line) were rendered obsolete.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 12:36:09 AM |
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 02:24:54 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message news:<t0gHc.192$Yo5.62@news02.roc.ny>...
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is conceived of as
consisting of totally non-intelligence-directed processes. In the
words of Dennett, [520]"_everything_ of importance" is [520]"a
byproduct of mindless purposeless forces."
In sharp contrast, the development of WWI's weaponry into the more
sophisticated WWII weaponry proceeded via the application of
intelligence/mind.
So, in other words, you don't see a link between WWI and Darwin. Just more
rhetoric and game playing by David Ford. Shame on you, David.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Cheetah" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
10 Jul 2004 07:53:10 PM |
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AC wrote:
So, in other words, you don't see a link between WWI and Darwin.
If you observe nature you might observe that lions eat antelopes. You might
even propose a theory - that lions eat antelopes to survive. Such a theory
would simply be stating a thoery based on available evidence.
If some crackpot then uses the theory as a basis for social morality - ie
equating some people to lions, and others to antelopes - and therefore
suggested that the first has the moral right to deprive the second group
for its own benefit - how can the individual responsible for the first
responsible theory be in any way held responsible for the crackpots broken
morality?
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| User: "Lizard" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 10:04:34 AM |
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 02:24:54 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrotC:DRIVE_E
Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is conceived of as
consisting of totally non-intelligence-directed processes.
However, eugenics *is* an intelligence-directed process, is it not?
Thus, the Germans were anti-Darwinian, as they attempted to control or
direct evolution, rather than allowing individual's freedom and simply
accepting what came up.
In short, the Nazis were following the principles of "intelligent
design" by attempting to construct life according to their whims,
rather than leaving it to chance.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
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| User: "Richard S. Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 10:13:42 AM |
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david ford wrote:
"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message news:<t0gHc.192$Yo5.62@news02.roc.ny>...
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is conceived of as
consisting of totally non-intelligence-directed processes. In the
words of Dennett, [520]"_everything_ of importance" is [520]"a
byproduct of mindless purposeless forces."
In sharp contrast, the development of WWI's weaponry into the more
sophisticated WWII weaponry proceeded via the application of
intelligence/mind.
Don't forget the Prius!
--
Richard Crawford (http://www.mossroot.com)
AIM: Buffalo2K / Y!: rscrawford
Ask me about my opposable thumb!
"When you lose the power to laugh at yourself, you lose the power to
think straight." --Clarence Darrow
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| User: "Andy Groves" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 07:34:40 PM |
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"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message news:<t0gHc.192$Yo5.62@news02.roc.ny>...
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
You mean it will have stubby little arms and bad breath?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5327029/
Andy
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| User: "Richard S. Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 01:15:49 PM |
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Hagar wrote:
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes. From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:b1c67abe.0407080924.5e456467@posting.google.com...
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
Don't be silly! All wars are specially created by Ares, the God of War.
--
Richard Crawford (http://www.mossroot.com)
AIM: Buffalo2K / Y!: rscrawford
Ask me about my opposable thumb!
"When you lose the power to laugh at yourself, you lose the power to
think straight." --Clarence Darrow
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| User: "Fatman" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 03:31:58 PM |
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"Richard S. Crawford" <rscrawfordDUCK@mossREMOVEWATERFOWLroot.com> wrote in
message news:cck391$1c9$2@woodrow.ucdavis.edu...
Hagar wrote:
No contribution per se, but it proved his theory of evolution.
WWI was a relatively small war, with bolt action rifles and bi-planes.
From
that WWII evolved with its much modernized weaponry. WWIII will be the
Tyrannosaurus Rex of all wars.
Don't be silly! All wars are specially created by Ares, the God of War.
Now you did it. Mars is gonna be pissed at you now. All I ever hear from him
is "THAT NAME SHALL NEVER BE SPOKEN IN MY PRESENCE!!".
-Fatman
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 7/5/2004
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 12:41:51 PM |
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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:20:26 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David? What do you think his
contribution to WWI was? Was it greater than the arms race between the
Great Powers? Was it greater than Pan-Slavism? Was it greater than
Austrian belligerance, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
What was Darwin's contribution to WWII? Was it greater than the onerous
conditions forced upon Germany by Versailles? Was it greater than the
militaristic imperialism of Germany and Italy, that's roots go back to Roman
times? Was it greater than the Allied Powers unwillingness to check the
militarism of a renewed Nazi Germany by enforcing treaty obligations such as
the disarmament of Rhineland?
So, David, what was Darwin's contribution? You fancy yourself some sort of
a historian, so I would expect you would know more of these things than I.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "david ford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
16 Jul 2004 09:25:36 PM |
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AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
What do you think his
contribution to WWI was? Was it greater than the arms race between the
Great Powers? Was it greater than Pan-Slavism? Was it greater than
Austrian belligerance, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
What was Darwin's contribution to WWII? Was it greater than the onerous
conditions forced upon Germany by Versailles? Was it greater than the
militaristic imperialism of Germany and Italy, that's roots go back to Roman
times? Was it greater than the Allied Powers unwillingness to check the
militarism of a renewed Nazi Germany by enforcing treaty obligations such as
the disarmament of Rhineland?
So, David, what was Darwin's contribution? You fancy yourself some sort of
a historian, so I would expect you would know more of these things than I.
.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
16 Jul 2004 09:45:11 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:25:36 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
I'm not surprised. You are a coward who refuses to admit a foul, dishonest
fishing trip. Shame on you. I can only hope your religious community
tosses you for this dishonorable behavior. If they don't then I condemn
them as being as immoral as you. Pathetic.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
Anyone that claims Hitler based his racial beliefs on Darwin is a liar.
Period. Thus, you are a liar. You cannot be a Christian, for a Christian
would not lie. Thus, you are an immoral individual. You are a shameful
display, David Ford. A shameful, lying, pathetic display. I shall teach my
children that liars like yourself, who will even use Holocaust denying
sources, are to be avoided.
Anything else you would like to lie about, David?
Oh, and I don't follow your links. Post the quotes here, or don't bother
replying to my messages at all. I will not follow the links provided by an
immoral anti-Christian like yourself.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "david ford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
17 Jul 2004 11:28:04 AM |
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AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncfh510.e66.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 17 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
I'm not surprised. You are a coward who refuses to admit a foul, dishonest
fishing trip. Shame on you. I can only hope your religious community
tosses you for this dishonorable behavior. If they don't then I condemn
them as being as immoral as you. Pathetic.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
Anyone that claims Hitler based his racial beliefs on Darwin is a liar.
I opened this thread with [df]"What is Darwin's contribution, if any,
to the coming of: World War I? World War II?" Regarding
specifically the WWI portion of this question, I suggest you read the
Gould and Weikart chapters I referenced above.
Period. Thus, you are a liar. You cannot be a Christian, for a Christian
would not lie. Thus, you are an immoral individual.
Upon what basis/grounds do you believe that lying is [AC]"immoral"?
You are a shameful
display, David Ford. A shameful, lying, pathetic display. I shall teach my
children that liars like yourself, who will even use Holocaust denying
sources, are to be avoided.
Will you teach your children that adherents of Marxism are to be
avoided? (Gould was an adherent of Marxism.)
Will you teach your children to avoid reading publications by
anti-Semitic individuals, for example Hitler?
Anything else you would like to lie about, David?
Oh, and I don't follow your links. Post the quotes here, or don't bother
replying to my messages at all. I will not follow the links provided by an
immoral anti-Christian like yourself.
The link was simply to some book-blurb-type comments about Weikart's
new book.
[AC]"Anyone that claims Hitler based his racial beliefs on Darwin is a
liar." The application of Darwinian thought to human society, aka
"Social Darwinism," played a key role in shaping the moral climate
that made the Holocaust possible. Many scientists in the 1910s and
1920s, including many evolutionary biologists and geneticists, were
then propounding "scientific" eugenicist views and evolutionary
ethics/morality that the Nazis built upon in their "scientific" effort
to create a "master race." Also, physicians were required to be
present during the operation of the gas chambers, and medical
personnel were actively involved in Nazi involuntary euthanasia
programs.
I realize you may want to deny this. If you are so inclined, I suggest
you distance yourself from Darwinian-moral-climate-in-the-Holocaust
denial, Darwinian-"science"-in-the-Holocaust denial, and
Darwinian-"ethics"-in-the-Holocaust denial.
.
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
17 Jul 2004 12:21:54 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:28:04 +0000 (UTC),
david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncfh510.e66.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 17 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
I'm not surprised. You are a coward who refuses to admit a foul, dishonest
fishing trip. Shame on you. I can only hope your religious community
tosses you for this dishonorable behavior. If they don't then I condemn
them as being as immoral as you. Pathetic.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
Anyone that claims Hitler based his racial beliefs on Darwin is a liar.
I opened this thread with [df]"What is Darwin's contribution, if any,
to the coming of: World War I? World War II?" Regarding
specifically the WWI portion of this question, I suggest you read the
Gould and Weikart chapters I referenced above.
I know many of the causes of WWI. I suggest you read some real history on
the topic, as opposed to hunting down quotes that you think can support your
lies. You are immoral, David Ford.
Period. Thus, you are a liar. You cannot be a Christian, for a Christian
would not lie. Thus, you are an immoral individual.
Upon what basis/grounds do you believe that lying is [AC]"immoral"?
In that it harms the ability of society to received and disseminate correct
information. It is harmful to an open, honest discussion of ideas.
You are a shameful
display, David Ford. A shameful, lying, pathetic display. I shall teach my
children that liars like yourself, who will even use Holocaust denying
sources, are to be avoided.
Will you teach your children that adherents of Marxism are to be
avoided? (Gould was an adherent of Marxism.)
Will you teach your children to avoid reading publications by
anti-Semitic individuals, for example Hitler?
I will teach my children that people like you are disgraces to the religion
their mother chose for them, and that the high ideals espoused by many
Christians are turned into a cesspools of lies and distortions by the likes
of David Ford.
Anything else you would like to lie about, David?
Oh, and I don't follow your links. Post the quotes here, or don't bother
replying to my messages at all. I will not follow the links provided by an
immoral anti-Christian like yourself.
The link was simply to some book-blurb-type comments about Weikart's
new book.
I will never follow your links again.
[AC]"Anyone that claims Hitler based his racial beliefs on Darwin is a
liar." The application of Darwinian thought to human society, aka
"Social Darwinism," played a key role in shaping the moral climate
that made the Holocaust possible.
And has been pointed out many times, Social Darwinism shares with Darwin's
theory, the word "Darwin".
Many scientists in the 1910s and
1920s, including many evolutionary biologists and geneticists, were
then propounding "scientific" eugenicist views and evolutionary
ethics/morality that the Nazis built upon in their "scientific" effort
to create a "master race." Also, physicians were required to be
present during the operation of the gas chambers, and medical
personnel were actively involved in Nazi involuntary euthanasia
programs.
I am well aware of Nazi lies, DAvid.
I realize you may want to deny this. If you are so inclined, I suggest
you distance yourself from Darwinian-moral-climate-in-the-Holocaust
denial, Darwinian-"science"-in-the-Holocaust denial, and
Darwinian-"ethics"-in-the-Holocaust denial.
I suggest you try being a Christian, Liar David Ford.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "Augray" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
16 Jul 2004 09:56:41 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:25:36 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote in news:<b1c67abe.0407161831.26596ca8@posting.google.com>:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford < > wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Could you mean:
[Bryan] learned that the martial view of Darwinism had been invoked
by most German intellectuals and military leaders as a
justification for war and future domination.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
What do you think his
contribution to WWI was? Was it greater than the arms race between the
Great Powers? Was it greater than Pan-Slavism? Was it greater than
Austrian belligerance, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
What was Darwin's contribution to WWII? Was it greater than the onerous
conditions forced upon Germany by Versailles? Was it greater than the
militaristic imperialism of Germany and Italy, that's roots go back to Roman
times? Was it greater than the Allied Powers unwillingness to check the
militarism of a renewed Nazi Germany by enforcing treaty obligations such as
the disarmament of Rhineland?
So, David, what was Darwin's contribution? You fancy yourself some sort of
a historian, so I would expect you would know more of these things than I.
.
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| User: "david ford" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
17 Jul 2004 11:30:36 AM |
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Augray <augray@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<pg5hf05s9g463mq13oe9hbgjg12e4u71lh@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:25:36 +0000 (UTC), (david ford) wrote in news:<b1c67abe.0407161831.26596ca8@posting.google.com>:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford < > wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Could you mean:
[Bryan] learned that the martial view of Darwinism had been invoked
by most German intellectuals and military leaders as a
justification for war and future domination.
There is more to pages 421-3, 428-9 than simply the text you quoted.
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
What do you think his
contribution to WWI was? Was it greater than the arms race between the
Great Powers? Was it greater than Pan-Slavism? Was it greater than
Austrian belligerance, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
What was Darwin's contribution to WWII? Was it greater than the onerous
conditions forced upon Germany by Versailles? Was it greater than the
militaristic imperialism of Germany and Italy, that's roots go back to Roman
times? Was it greater than the Allied Powers unwillingness to check the
militarism of a renewed Nazi Germany by enforcing treaty obligations such as
the disarmament of Rhineland?
So, David, what was Darwin's contribution? You fancy yourself some sort of
a historian, so I would expect you would know more of these things than I.
.
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| User: "Augray" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
19 Jul 2004 09:20:41 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:30:36 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote in news:<b1c67abe.0407170836.bd08043@posting.google.com>:
Augray <augray@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<pg5hf05s9g463mq13oe9hbgjg12e4u71lh@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:25:36 +0000 (UTC), (david ford) wrote in news:<b1c67abe.0407161831.26596ca8@posting.google.com>:
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<slrncer23g.flh.mightymartianca@mp1.alberni.net>...
On 8 Jul 2004, david ford < > wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
For a change, why don't you tell us, David?
No.
Re: WWI, a little bird gave me these references for you to check out:
Gould, Stephen Jay. 1991. _Bully for Brontosaurus: Reflections in
Natural History_ (New York: W.W. Norton & Company), 540pp., chapter 28
"William Jennings Bryan's Last Campaign," especially pages 421-3,
428-9.
Could you mean:
[Bryan] learned that the martial view of Darwinism had been invoked
by most German intellectuals and military leaders as a
justification for war and future domination.
There is more to pages 421-3, 428-9 than simply the text you quoted.
You mean the part on page 428 where Gould writes that:
One of the saddest chapters in all of the history of science
involves the extensive misuse of data to support biological
determinism, the claim that social inequalities based on race, sex,
or class cannot be altered because they reflect the innate and
inferior genetic endowments of the disadvantaged.
You'd know about the misuse of data, wouldn't you?
Weikart, Richard. 2004. _From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics,
Eugenics, and Racism in Germany_ (USA: Palgrave Macmillan), 312pp.,
chapter 9 "War and Peace," especially pages 164-166, 173-174.
about Weikart's new book
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0407030531.19253d93%40posting.google.com
What do you think his
contribution to WWI was? Was it greater than the arms race between the
Great Powers? Was it greater than Pan-Slavism? Was it greater than
Austrian belligerance, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire?
What was Darwin's contribution to WWII? Was it greater than the onerous
conditions forced upon Germany by Versailles? Was it greater than the
militaristic imperialism of Germany and Italy, that's roots go back to Roman
times? Was it greater than the Allied Powers unwillingness to check the
militarism of a renewed Nazi Germany by enforcing treaty obligations such as
the disarmament of Rhineland?
So, David, what was Darwin's contribution? You fancy yourself some sort of
a historian, so I would expect you would know more of these things than I.
.
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| User: "Lizard" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 09:54:11 AM |
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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:20:26 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrotC:DRIVE_E
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
He was long dead by either, eh wot?
One thing I've found dascinating about Creationists is that They Just
Don't Get It. That is, they believe in the Word Of Jesus because it
was Said by Jesus. Since they lack the capacity to see the world from
any perspective but their own, to them, "secular humanists" worship
"Darwin" and get their wisdom from a bible called "The Origin of
Species". Thus, all they have to do is critique the prophet Darwin or
his revealed word in TOOS, and they have "debunked evolution". *They*
belive something just because someone said it, therefore, that's why
anyone believes anything.
They fail to comprehend that evolution is not accepted because it was
revealed by a Great Man, but because it has shown itself to be true.
Thus, revealing Darwin raped puppies for fun or that TOOS is long out
of date doesn't do a damn thing to critique evolution. They, however,
can't understand this, so, to them, a refusal to recant your heresy
upon hearing these Shocking New Facts means that evolution is
"accepted on faith".
This is a gap in worldview that is impossible to bridge. They can't
understand not accepting things on faith, and there seems to be no
getting around their mental walls.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 07:25:35 PM |
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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:20:26 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
I didn't know there were eleven world wars!
I might have to stop drinking.......
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
.
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| User: "Ph˙ltźr" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
09 Jul 2004 09:12:37 AM |
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Steve Knight <whooly@sonic.net> astounded us with:
news:0upre0l5901bvkt47qro9upm7p7silovf3@4ax.com:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:20:26 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
I didn't know there were eleven world wars!
I might have to stop drinking.......
Why bother, WW 12 will be along soon if GWB has anything to do with things...
--
Ph˙ltźr
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://forums.clickhalah.com/index.php
Remove "s" to respond
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Contribute to WWI? WWII? |
08 Jul 2004 12:55:25 PM |
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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:20:26 +0000 (UTC), (david
ford) wrote:
What is Darwin's contribution, if any, to the coming of:
World War I?
World War II?
He was responsible for all of it. WWI, WWII, the Cold War, the
Iran-Iraq War, Gulf War I and II. Darwin was the single most important
human being to ever live. His ideas, obviously and naturally false of
course, changed the way every human being on Earth thinks, he ripped
morality from human society, he brought in an age of unparalleled
sexual promiscuity, racism, and intolerance (or tolerance, depending
on which you dislike). Darwin may well have been Satan himself, the
Antichrist here on Earth to wreak havoc on God's Creation.
Ok?
--
Matt Silberstein
Do in order to understand.
.
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