| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
17 Aug 2006 09:55:23 AM |
| Object: |
Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
His fanatical faith in these ideologies and his angry intolerance of
enemies saw him use the Red Army to crush the enemies of the newly
formed Soviet state in the Russian Civil War of 1918-20. He
instituted the militarization of civilian labour and the confiscation
of food from peasants. He crushed the Ukrainian Army of Insurgent
Peasants; and its anarchist guerrilla leader, Nestor Makhno
(1889-1934), who had been his ally against the White Russians, was
badly wounded but managed to flee the country with his family. Trotsky
brutally suppressed the Soviet sailors at Kronstadt,1 and committed
other acts of violence with ease, 'because of his absolute conviction
that they served the purposes of the proletariat and its permanent
revolution'.2
After the end of the Russian Civil War, Trotsky's boundless energies
were channelled into handling administrative details and carrying out
such pet projects as the leadership of the Society of the Godless,
which was responsible for the spread of the Soviets' antitheistic
propaganda. He was an ardent atheist and advocated an 'atheistic
substitute' for religion; this involved the use of the theatre for
antireligious propaganda, and Communistic rituals of 'red' baptisms,
'red' weddings, 'red' Easters, etc.3 He persecuted Christians,
desecrated church property, and hated all middle-class morality.
Trotsky advocated permanent worldwide revolution4 and called for the
communist seizure of power in Germany and other countries where he
thought conditions were ripe for such violent actions.
How could it have come about that Trotsky, the son of a rich Jewish
land-owner,5 became so vehemently prejudiced against his father's class
and against religion? It had a lot to do with his college failure and
his sexual sin.
Among the most recognized of the former Soviet regime's cultural
symbols is this stainless steel monument in Moscow, titled 'A Worker
and a Collective Farmer'; seen holding aloft the sickle and hammer.
At the age of 17, Trotsky dropped out of college to join a
revolutionary commune. The only Marxist member of this group was a
woman, some six years his senior, named Alexandra Lvovna Sokolovskaya.
At first, he was ferociously antagonistic to both Alexandra and her
Marxist views, so much so that at a New Year's Eve party in 1896 he
proposed a toast with the words, 'A curse on all Marxists, and on all
those who want to bring hardness and dryness into all life's
relationships!'6
However, he then began an affair with her, which caused him to
reconsider her Marxism. After the commune's activities landed its
members in the Tsar's prisons,7 Trotsky had ample time to develop his
ideologies.
In prison in Odessa, Trotsky read Darwin's Origin of Species and his
Autobiography. Years later he wrote, 'Darwin destroyed the last of my
ideological prejudices. ... In the Odessa prison I felt something like
hard scientific ground under my feet. Facts began to establish
themselves in a certain system. The idea of evolution and
determinism-that is, the idea of a gradual development conditioned by
the character of the material world-took possession of me completely.
'Darwin stood for me like a mighty doorkeeper at the entrance to the
temple of the universe. I was intoxicated with his minute, precise,
conscientious and at the same time powerful, thought. I was the more
astonished when I read ... that he had preserved his belief in God.8 I
absolutely declined to understand how a theory of the origin of species
by way of natural selection and sexual selection and a belief in God
could find room in one and the same head.'9
The details would be filled in later, but in the age of great
scientists like James Clerk Maxwell and Louis Pasteur, who were
Christian creationists, Trotsky took up the faith of Marx and Darwin.
The conversion experience was genuine and thorough. Its legacy would be
written in the torrents of blood that flowed under his hand.
In 1940, Trotsky, while living in exile in Mexico, was assassinated on
the orders of Josef Stalin, another who was converted to an atheistic
view of life through reading Darwin. Stalin was perhaps history's
greatest mass murderer. He and Trotsky acted in a way that was quite
consistent with their presuppositions: if no one made me, no one owns
me, and there is no absolute right or wrong. In such an evolution-based
worldview, there is nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with murdering
people, even millions of them.
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:34:07 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Ḵwārizmī?
Such polemics!
Really!
You are ridiculous. In the first place they lived centuries before
Darwin. In the second, I was responding to the post about Trotsky being
added to the list of Darwin-readers.
My point was, since you do not choose to understand it, is that fanatics
post all sorts of claims that people they don't like read Darwin, but
they never post anything about how people they do like read Darwin.
It's standard creationist dishonesty and I was pointing that out. You
seem to delight in misdirecting the discussion.
But, since you prefer home-grown, when can we expect to see these guys
write about how Charles Manson, David Berkowitz, the ACLU and Bill
Clinton read Darwin?
Don't worry, they'll never write about Pat Robertson or Garner Ted
Armstrong or David Khoresh reading Darwin. Or George Bush (Shrub) ever
reading Darwin. But there may be different reasons for that.
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:48:50 PM |
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cactus wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nels=
on
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Mu=E1=B8=A5ammad ibn M=C5=ABs=C4=81 al-=E1=B8=B4w=C4=81rizm=C4=AB?
Such polemics!
Really!
You are ridiculous.
Thank you. When I make jokes, at least someone laughs.
In the first place they lived centuries before
Darwin. In the second, I was responding to the post about Trotsky being
added to the list of Darwin-readers.
Trotsky died in Mexico from an overdose of Communism. I should think
that has SOMEthing to do with Darwin.
My point was, since you do not choose to understand it, is that fanatics
post all sorts of claims that people they don't like read Darwin, but
they never post anything about how people they do like read Darwin.
Reading Darwin is like eating Haggis. It is an acquired taste that few
people are interested to acquire. But it sounds like something the
ancient Fanatics would eat, just to get themselves psyched up for
battle.
It's standard creationist dishonesty and I was pointing that out. You
seem to delight in misdirecting the discussion.
At this point it was not a discussion. It was simply an attack from
right field. To balance the picture, I attacked from left field. I am
sure you can appreciate the value of a balanced picture.
But, since you prefer home-grown, when can we expect to see these guys
write about how Charles Manson, David Berkowitz, the ACLU and Bill
Clinton read Darwin?
Janet Reno reads Darwin - that ought to account for something.
Don't worry, they'll never write about Pat Robertson or Garner Ted
Armstrong or David Khoresh reading Darwin. Or George Bush (Shrub) ever
reading Darwin. But there may be different reasons for that.
The reason is simple - George Bush cannot read. As for Sound the
Trumpet, I believe it is an organization, but basically harmless -
nothing like the ancient Fanatics or Assassins, or any of those other
madmen from the Middle East.
TCross
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 03:01:01 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
At this point it was not a discussion. It was simply an attack from
right field. To balance the picture, I attacked from left field. I am
sure you can appreciate the value of a balanced picture.
Oooh, I *hate* that. It's like when Faux News purports to "balance" the
perceived leftist propaganda with blatantly rightist propaganda. This
is the silliest, most harmful response, in truth. The most useful
response is an investigative, fact-based response. But, I guess that
can be boring and/or expensive.
655321
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
18 Aug 2006 12:33:05 AM |
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655321 wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
At this point it was not a discussion. It was simply an attack from
right field. To balance the picture, I attacked from left field. I am
sure you can appreciate the value of a balanced picture.
Oooh, I *hate* that. It's like when Faux News purports to "balance" the
perceived leftist propaganda with blatantly rightist propaganda. This
is the silliest, most harmful response, in truth. The most useful
response is an investigative, fact-based response. But, I guess that
can be boring and/or expensive.
655321
The satire was deliberate. The argument of "balanced news" is based on
the fallacy of the false alternative. If BBC reports that dog bit man,
what is the balanced view - man bit dog? Dog did not bite man? Man
deserved to be bitten? Dog mistook man for neighborhood cat?
I agree. There is truth, and there is various degrees of lie, slanted
in any of various directions.
TCross
.
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 01:33:50 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
cactus wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Ḵwārizmī?
Such polemics!
Really!
You are ridiculous.
Thank you. When I make jokes, at least someone laughs.
In the first place they lived centuries before
Darwin. In the second, I was responding to the post about Trotsky being
added to the list of Darwin-readers.
Trotsky died in Mexico from an overdose of Communism. I should think
that has SOMEthing to do with Darwin.
To the extent that politics does. I think it has more to do with
Machiavelli and sociopathic paranoia than evolution.
My point was, since you do not choose to understand it, is that fanatics
post all sorts of claims that people they don't like read Darwin, but
they never post anything about how people they do like read Darwin.
Reading Darwin is like eating Haggis. It is an acquired taste that few
people are interested to acquire. But it sounds like something the
ancient Fanatics would eat, just to get themselves psyched up for
battle.
Hashish is more effective for battle.
It's standard creationist dishonesty and I was pointing that out. You
seem to delight in misdirecting the discussion.
At this point it was not a discussion. It was simply an attack from
right field. To balance the picture, I attacked from left field. I am
sure you can appreciate the value of a balanced picture.
Your "attack" was not very effective - all you did was emphasize the
imbalance.
But, since you prefer home-grown, when can we expect to see these guys
write about how Charles Manson, David Berkowitz, the ACLU and Bill
Clinton read Darwin?
Janet Reno reads Darwin - that ought to account for something.
I think that is wrecking any correlations we might find.
Don't worry, they'll never write about Pat Robertson or Garner Ted
Armstrong or David Khoresh reading Darwin. Or George Bush (Shrub) ever
reading Darwin. But there may be different reasons for that.
The reason is simple - George Bush cannot read. As for Sound the
Trumpet, I believe it is an organization, but basically harmless -
nothing like the ancient Fanatics or Assassins, or any of those other
madmen from the Middle East.
I don't trust them. Innocent they may be, but their message can be taken
wrong by people who would act.
TCross
.
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| User: "Cheeks _" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 11:17:21 PM |
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cactus wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Ḵwārizmī?
Such polemics!
Really!
You are ridiculous. In the first place they lived centuries before
Darwin. In the second, I was responding to the post about Trotsky being
added to the list of Darwin-readers.
My point was, since you do not choose to understand it, is that fanatics
post all sorts of claims that people they don't like read Darwin, but
they never post anything about how people they do like read Darwin.
It's standard creationist dishonesty and I was pointing that out. You
seem to delight in misdirecting the discussion.
But, since you prefer home-grown, when can we expect to see these guys
write about how Charles Manson, David Berkowitz, the ACLU and Bill
Clinton read Darwin?
Don't worry, they'll never write about Pat Robertson or Garner Ted
Armstrong or David Khoresh reading Darwin. Or George Bush (Shrub) ever
reading Darwin. But there may be different reasons for that.
GW doesn't READ. Not even a newspaper. Particularly not a newspaper..
.
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