| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
17 Aug 2006 09:55:23 AM |
| Object: |
Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
His fanatical faith in these ideologies and his angry intolerance of
enemies saw him use the Red Army to crush the enemies of the newly
formed Soviet state in the Russian Civil War of 1918-20. He
instituted the militarization of civilian labour and the confiscation
of food from peasants. He crushed the Ukrainian Army of Insurgent
Peasants; and its anarchist guerrilla leader, Nestor Makhno
(1889-1934), who had been his ally against the White Russians, was
badly wounded but managed to flee the country with his family. Trotsky
brutally suppressed the Soviet sailors at Kronstadt,1 and committed
other acts of violence with ease, 'because of his absolute conviction
that they served the purposes of the proletariat and its permanent
revolution'.2
After the end of the Russian Civil War, Trotsky's boundless energies
were channelled into handling administrative details and carrying out
such pet projects as the leadership of the Society of the Godless,
which was responsible for the spread of the Soviets' antitheistic
propaganda. He was an ardent atheist and advocated an 'atheistic
substitute' for religion; this involved the use of the theatre for
antireligious propaganda, and Communistic rituals of 'red' baptisms,
'red' weddings, 'red' Easters, etc.3 He persecuted Christians,
desecrated church property, and hated all middle-class morality.
Trotsky advocated permanent worldwide revolution4 and called for the
communist seizure of power in Germany and other countries where he
thought conditions were ripe for such violent actions.
How could it have come about that Trotsky, the son of a rich Jewish
land-owner,5 became so vehemently prejudiced against his father's class
and against religion? It had a lot to do with his college failure and
his sexual sin.
Among the most recognized of the former Soviet regime's cultural
symbols is this stainless steel monument in Moscow, titled 'A Worker
and a Collective Farmer'; seen holding aloft the sickle and hammer.
At the age of 17, Trotsky dropped out of college to join a
revolutionary commune. The only Marxist member of this group was a
woman, some six years his senior, named Alexandra Lvovna Sokolovskaya.
At first, he was ferociously antagonistic to both Alexandra and her
Marxist views, so much so that at a New Year's Eve party in 1896 he
proposed a toast with the words, 'A curse on all Marxists, and on all
those who want to bring hardness and dryness into all life's
relationships!'6
However, he then began an affair with her, which caused him to
reconsider her Marxism. After the commune's activities landed its
members in the Tsar's prisons,7 Trotsky had ample time to develop his
ideologies.
In prison in Odessa, Trotsky read Darwin's Origin of Species and his
Autobiography. Years later he wrote, 'Darwin destroyed the last of my
ideological prejudices. ... In the Odessa prison I felt something like
hard scientific ground under my feet. Facts began to establish
themselves in a certain system. The idea of evolution and
determinism-that is, the idea of a gradual development conditioned by
the character of the material world-took possession of me completely.
'Darwin stood for me like a mighty doorkeeper at the entrance to the
temple of the universe. I was intoxicated with his minute, precise,
conscientious and at the same time powerful, thought. I was the more
astonished when I read ... that he had preserved his belief in God.8 I
absolutely declined to understand how a theory of the origin of species
by way of natural selection and sexual selection and a belief in God
could find room in one and the same head.'9
The details would be filled in later, but in the age of great
scientists like James Clerk Maxwell and Louis Pasteur, who were
Christian creationists, Trotsky took up the faith of Marx and Darwin.
The conversion experience was genuine and thorough. Its legacy would be
written in the torrents of blood that flowed under his hand.
In 1940, Trotsky, while living in exile in Mexico, was assassinated on
the orders of Josef Stalin, another who was converted to an atheistic
view of life through reading Darwin. Stalin was perhaps history's
greatest mass murderer. He and Trotsky acted in a way that was quite
consistent with their presuppositions: if no one made me, no one owns
me, and there is no absolute right or wrong. In such an evolution-based
worldview, there is nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with murdering
people, even millions of them.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:40:06 PM |
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On 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
What you are essentially arguing is that you should lie to children
and tell them Santa Claus exists because it helps you make them
behave. That is not an argument for the existence of Santa Claus.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
See links to the Lebanon photos that Google censored at
http://mindprod.com/politics/israel.html
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:50:03 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:40:06 GMT, Roedy Green wrote in message
<dda9e294cehvo6g5lf3vi4s0kg39ic3glp@4ax.com>:
On 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
What you are essentially arguing is that you should lie to children
and tell them Santa Claus exists because it helps you make them
behave. That is not an argument for the existence of Santa Claus.
Quite so. But it does appear to be something of an argument for
censorship in as much as the SoT appears to believe that there are
some truths so terrible that they must never be disclosed.
--
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
attrib: Pauline Réage. Cine To DVD? http://www.video2cd.co.uk
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 03:21:46 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:50:03 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
Quite so. But it does appear to be something of an argument for
censorship in as much as the SoT appears to believe that there are
some truths so terrible that they must never be disclosed.
"Let us pray it is not so, or if it is, that it will not become widely
known."
~ Wife of the Bishop of Exeter on hearing of Darwin's theory of the
common descent of humans and apes.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
See links to the Lebanon photos that Google censored at
http://mindprod.com/politics/israel.html
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
18 Aug 2006 10:45:04 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:50:03 +0100, Therion Ware wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:40:06 GMT, Roedy Green wrote in message
<dda9e294cehvo6g5lf3vi4s0kg39ic3glp@4ax.com>:
On 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
What you are essentially arguing is that you should lie to children
and tell them Santa Claus exists because it helps you make them
behave. That is not an argument for the existence of Santa Claus.
Quite so. But it does appear to be something of an argument for
censorship in as much as the SoT appears to believe that there are
some truths so terrible that they must never be disclosed.
Then he'd fit right in with the rest of the neo-cons.
Who advocate religion as useful and that us peasants can't handle the
truth so must be ruled with the Grand Lies.
The great irony of today is that the faction of the Republican Party that
is pandering to the fundies believes "god" is a fiction used to keep the
help in line...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 01:22:56 PM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:40:06 GMT, Roedy Green wrote in message
<dda9e294cehvo6g5lf3vi4s0kg39ic3glp@4ax.com>:
On 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
What you are essentially arguing is that you should lie to children
and tell them Santa Claus exists because it helps you make them
behave. That is not an argument for the existence of Santa Claus.
Quite so. But it does appear to be something of an argument for
censorship in as much as the SoT appears to believe that there are
some truths so terrible that they must never be disclosed.
Good marxist dialectic... accuse others of your own crimes.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 03:22:48 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:22:56 -0700, Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
What you are essentially arguing is that you should lie to children
and tell them Santa Claus exists because it helps you make them
behave. That is not an argument for the existence of Santa Claus.
Quite so. But it does appear to be something of an argument for
censorship in as much as the SoT appears to believe that there are
some truths so terrible that they must never be disclosed.
Good marxist dialectic... accuse others of your own crimes.
I did not know there was an official Marxist position on Santa Claus.
What is it?
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
See links to the Lebanon photos that Google censored at
http://mindprod.com/politics/israel.html
.
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| User: "marc_CH" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
20 Aug 2006 03:58:50 AM |
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In article <gvj9e295i87t469tdlt60g41enc0bnk3o3@4ax.com> see_website@mindprod.com.invalid wrote...
Good marxist dialectic... accuse others of your own crimes.
I did not know there was an official Marxist position on Santa Claus.
What is it?
The public ownership and distribution of all presents. Hell, he even
wears red.
marc
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 02:14:32 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, Sound of Trumpet wrote:
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
Trotsky probably also read the Bible. Maybe that's what happened to his
faith...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 02:34:32 PM |
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Chances are, had Trotsky become leader of Soviet Russia rather than
Stalin, things would have turned out a lot better. The majority of
Americans nowadays seem to misunderstand the principles of socialism,
which Stalin strayed far away from, preferring to follow a dictatorial
state capitalism.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 02:41:15 PM |
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Lucifer wrote:
Chances are, had Trotsky become leader of Soviet Russia rather than
Stalin, things would have turned out a lot better. The majority of
Americans nowadays seem to misunderstand the principles of socialism,
which Stalin strayed far away from, preferring to follow a dictatorial
state capitalism.
IOW, in Russia the Romanovs were once in power, then, after the
Romanovs, they were still in power.
Deborah
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| User: "Stan Boleslawski" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
18 Aug 2006 02:46:13 PM |
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wrote:
Lucifer wrote:
Chances are, had Trotsky become leader of Soviet Russia rather than
Stalin, things would have turned out a lot better. The majority of
Americans nowadays seem to misunderstand the principles of socialism,
which Stalin strayed far away from, preferring to follow a dictatorial
state capitalism.
IOW, in Russia the Romanovs were once in power, then, after the
Romanovs, they were still in power.
"The Russian Revolution began when people realized that the Czar and
the Tsar
were the same person," - Woody Allen
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 02:35:35 PM |
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In article <g8qdnc4IQv2FXXnZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@megapath.net> "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> writes:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:55:23 -0700, Sound of Trumpet wrote:
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
Trotsky probably also read the Bible. Maybe that's what happened to his
faith...
That had a serious impact on my faith, I tell you what...
-- cary
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 03:26:29 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:14:32 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :
Trotsky probably also read the Bible. Maybe that's what happened to his
faith...
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived.”
~ Isaac Asimov (1920-1992), Russian-born American scientist and
prolific writer
If you doubt, see http://mindprod.com/religion/biblestudy.html
If I could persuade every Christian to read it cover to cover, there
would be mass defections. It is the silliest book I have ever read,
about a silly as the Cat in the Hat, and certainly the most overrated.
It has about 4000 words of gold in a pile of utter crap.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green, http://mindprod.com
See links to the Lebanon photos that Google censored at
http://mindprod.com/politics/israel.html
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 06:39:09 PM |
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Roedy Green wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:14:32 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :
Trotsky probably also read the Bible. Maybe that's what happened to his
faith...
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived."
~ Isaac Asimov (1920-1992), Russian-born American scientist and
prolific writer
If you doubt, see http://mindprod.com/religion/biblestudy.html
If I could persuade every Christian to read it cover to cover, there
would be mass defections. It is the silliest book I have ever read,
about a silly as the Cat in the Hat, and certainly the most overrated.
It has about 4000 words of gold in a pile of utter crap.
The Bible is certainly a potent argument for dropping all worship of
Moses, his legacy, and his deity. However, since the Hebrew Bible is
one of the more primitive expressions of religion, it should not
discourage all religious endeavor.
TCross
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
18 Aug 2006 12:46:33 AM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was
a financial investment.
Stalin ran him and his friends out of Russia beginning with the Kirov
incident.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:50:30 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
Does it ever cross your mind that you are wasting time writing this
kind of absurdities?
No. Guess that would involve thinking.
Suzana
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| User: "David Johnston" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 04:17:13 PM |
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On 17 Aug 2006 10:50:30 -0700, "suznet@hwcn.org" <suznet@hwcn.org>
wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
Does it ever cross your mind that you are wasting time writing this
kind of absurdities?
He doesn't write them. All he does is cut and paste. I doubt he even
reads them since it's fairly obvious from the article that Trotsky was
both a Marxist and an atheist before he ever read Darwin.
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| User: "Igor" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 01:38:23 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
His fanatical faith in these ideologies and his angry intolerance of
enemies saw him use the Red Army to crush the enemies of the newly
formed Soviet state in the Russian Civil War of 1918-20. He
instituted the militarization of civilian labour and the confiscation
of food from peasants. He crushed the Ukrainian Army of Insurgent
Peasants; and its anarchist guerrilla leader, Nestor Makhno
(1889-1934), who had been his ally against the White Russians, was
badly wounded but managed to flee the country with his family. Trotsky
brutally suppressed the Soviet sailors at Kronstadt,1 and committed
other acts of violence with ease, 'because of his absolute conviction
that they served the purposes of the proletariat and its permanent
revolution'.2
After the end of the Russian Civil War, Trotsky's boundless energies
were channelled into handling administrative details and carrying out
such pet projects as the leadership of the Society of the Godless,
which was responsible for the spread of the Soviets' antitheistic
propaganda. He was an ardent atheist and advocated an 'atheistic
substitute' for religion; this involved the use of the theatre for
antireligious propaganda, and Communistic rituals of 'red' baptisms,
'red' weddings, 'red' Easters, etc.3 He persecuted Christians,
desecrated church property, and hated all middle-class morality.
Trotsky advocated permanent worldwide revolution4 and called for the
communist seizure of power in Germany and other countries where he
thought conditions were ripe for such violent actions.
How could it have come about that Trotsky, the son of a rich Jewish
land-owner,5 became so vehemently prejudiced against his father's class
and against religion? It had a lot to do with his college failure and
his sexual sin.
Among the most recognized of the former Soviet regime's cultural
symbols is this stainless steel monument in Moscow, titled 'A Worker
and a Collective Farmer'; seen holding aloft the sickle and hammer.
At the age of 17, Trotsky dropped out of college to join a
revolutionary commune. The only Marxist member of this group was a
woman, some six years his senior, named Alexandra Lvovna Sokolovskaya.
At first, he was ferociously antagonistic to both Alexandra and her
Marxist views, so much so that at a New Year's Eve party in 1896 he
proposed a toast with the words, 'A curse on all Marxists, and on all
those who want to bring hardness and dryness into all life's
relationships!'6
However, he then began an affair with her, which caused him to
reconsider her Marxism. After the commune's activities landed its
members in the Tsar's prisons,7 Trotsky had ample time to develop his
ideologies.
In prison in Odessa, Trotsky read Darwin's Origin of Species and his
Autobiography. Years later he wrote, 'Darwin destroyed the last of my
ideological prejudices. ... In the Odessa prison I felt something like
hard scientific ground under my feet. Facts began to establish
themselves in a certain system. The idea of evolution and
determinism-that is, the idea of a gradual development conditioned by
the character of the material world-took possession of me completely.
'Darwin stood for me like a mighty doorkeeper at the entrance to the
temple of the universe. I was intoxicated with his minute, precise,
conscientious and at the same time powerful, thought. I was the more
astonished when I read ... that he had preserved his belief in God.8 I
absolutely declined to understand how a theory of the origin of species
by way of natural selection and sexual selection and a belief in God
could find room in one and the same head.'9
The details would be filled in later, but in the age of great
scientists like James Clerk Maxwell and Louis Pasteur, who were
Christian creationists, Trotsky took up the faith of Marx and Darwin.
The conversion experience was genuine and thorough. Its legacy would be
written in the torrents of blood that flowed under his hand.
In 1940, Trotsky, while living in exile in Mexico, was assassinated on
the orders of Josef Stalin, another who was converted to an atheistic
view of life through reading Darwin. Stalin was perhaps history's
greatest mass murderer. He and Trotsky acted in a way that was quite
consistent with their presuppositions: if no one made me, no one owns
me, and there is no absolute right or wrong. In such an evolution-based
worldview, there is nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with murdering
people, even millions of them.
Hell, if Trotsky had known Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, he probably
would have become an atheist even sooner.
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie" |
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| Title: AIG throws in the towel |
17 Aug 2006 02:30:04 PM |
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Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
By politicising their campaing in this way, AIG has made a rod for
their own back. If they aren't completely marginalised already, they
soon will be. They can certainly no loger contend that they are an
organisation dedicated to promoting objective science or anything
resembling it.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: AIG throws in the towel |
17 Aug 2006 03:44:46 PM |
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On 17 Aug 2006 12:30:04 -0700, "Pastor Kutchie"
<user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
By politicising their campaing in this way, AIG has made a rod for
their own back. If they aren't completely marginalised already, they
soon will be. They can certainly no loger contend that they are an
organisation dedicated to promoting objective science or anything
resembling it.
It isn't as though the gullible fools their propaganda is aimed at are
likely to know the difference....
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: AIG throws in the towel |
17 Aug 2006 03:05:51 PM |
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Pastor Kutchie wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
By politicising their campaing in this way,
Are you saying they are doing this for the first time here?
AIG has made a rod for
their own back. If they aren't completely marginalised already, they
soon will be. They can certainly no loger contend that they are an
organisation dedicated to promoting objective science or anything
resembling it.
Well, the URL pretty much took care of that upon its inception.
655321
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| User: "Stan Engel" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 10:31:38 AM |
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This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
by Barry Woolley
Leon Trotsky (1879-1940) was the organizer, propagandist, and military
leader of the communist seizure of power in Russia following the
revolution of 1917. He was communist dictator Lenin's heir apparent,
until Stalin usurped this position. Intolerant, tactless and impatient,
Trotsky had an unbounded faith in Marxism, which was reinforced by his
uncritical acceptance of Darwinism.
His fanatical faith in these ideologies and his angry intolerance of
enemies saw him use the Red Army to crush the enemies of the newly
formed Soviet state in the Russian Civil War of 1918-20. He
instituted the militarization of civilian labour and the confiscation
of food from peasants. He crushed the Ukrainian Army of Insurgent
Peasants; and its anarchist guerrilla leader, Nestor Makhno
(1889-1934), who had been his ally against the White Russians, was
badly wounded but managed to flee the country with his family. Trotsky
brutally suppressed the Soviet sailors at Kronstadt,1 and committed
other acts of violence with ease, 'because of his absolute conviction
that they served the purposes of the proletariat and its permanent
revolution'.2
After the end of the Russian Civil War, Trotsky's boundless energies
were channelled into handling administrative details and carrying out
such pet projects as the leadership of the Society of the Godless,
which was responsible for the spread of the Soviets' antitheistic
propaganda. He was an ardent atheist and advocated an 'atheistic
substitute' for religion; this involved the use of the theatre for
antireligious propaganda, and Communistic rituals of 'red' baptisms,
'red' weddings, 'red' Easters, etc.3 He persecuted Christians,
desecrated church property, and hated all middle-class morality.
Trotsky advocated permanent worldwide revolution4 and called for the
communist seizure of power in Germany and other countries where he
thought conditions were ripe for such violent actions.
How could it have come about that Trotsky, the son of a rich Jewish
land-owner,5 became so vehemently prejudiced against his father's class
and against religion? It had a lot to do with his college failure and
his sexual sin.
Among the most recognized of the former Soviet regime's cultural
symbols is this stainless steel monument in Moscow, titled 'A Worker
and a Collective Farmer'; seen holding aloft the sickle and hammer.
At the age of 17, Trotsky dropped out of college to join a
revolutionary commune. The only Marxist member of this group was a
woman, some six years his senior, named Alexandra Lvovna Sokolovskaya.
At first, he was ferociously antagonistic to both Alexandra and her
Marxist views, so much so that at a New Year's Eve party in 1896 he
proposed a toast with the words, 'A curse on all Marxists, and on all
those who want to bring hardness and dryness into all life's
relationships!'6
However, he then began an affair with her, which caused him to
reconsider her Marxism. After the commune's activities landed its
members in the Tsar's prisons,7 Trotsky had ample time to develop his
ideologies.
In prison in Odessa, Trotsky read Darwin's Origin of Species and his
Autobiography. Years later he wrote, 'Darwin destroyed the last of my
ideological prejudices. ... In the Odessa prison I felt something like
hard scientific ground under my feet. Facts began to establish
themselves in a certain system. The idea of evolution and
determinism-that is, the idea of a gradual development conditioned by
the character of the material world-took possession of me completely.
'Darwin stood for me like a mighty doorkeeper at the entrance to the
temple of the universe. I was intoxicated with his minute, precise,
conscientious and at the same time powerful, thought. I was the more
astonished when I read ... that he had preserved his belief in God.8 I
absolutely declined to understand how a theory of the origin of species
by way of natural selection and sexual selection and a belief in God
could find room in one and the same head.'9
The details would be filled in later, but in the age of great
scientists like James Clerk Maxwell and Louis Pasteur, who were
Christian creationists, Trotsky took up the faith of Marx and Darwin.
The conversion experience was genuine and thorough. Its legacy would be
written in the torrents of blood that flowed under his hand.
In 1940, Trotsky, while living in exile in Mexico, was assassinated on
the orders of Josef Stalin, another who was converted to an atheistic
view of life through reading Darwin. Stalin was perhaps history's
greatest mass murderer. He and Trotsky acted in a way that was quite
consistent with their presuppositions: if no one made me, no one owns
me, and there is no absolute right or wrong. In such an evolution-based
worldview, there is nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with murdering
people, even millions of them.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 11:37:44 AM |
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Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
<snip>>
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 01:16:19 PM |
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cactus wrote:
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Projection is good.
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| User: "Ralph" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 03:07:39 PM |
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"Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uLSdnV9Ub7O9L3nZnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
cactus wrote:
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Projection is good.
You should know
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| User: "Roy Jose Lorr" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 04:38:05 PM |
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Ralph wrote:
"Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uLSdnV9Ub7O9L3nZnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
cactus wrote:
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Projection is good.
You should know
I know it when I see it.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:00:00 PM |
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cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Mu=E1=B8=A5ammad ibn M=C5=ABs=C4=81 al-=E1=B8=B4w=C4=81rizm=C4=AB?
Such polemics!
TCross
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| User: "Ralph" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:39:39 PM |
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155834000.408226.11070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Mu?ammad ibn Musa al-?warizmi?
Such polemics!
TCross
Talk about *****, Terry is full of it!
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:45:44 PM |
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Ralph wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155834000.408226.11070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Mu?ammad ibn Musa al-?warizmi?
Such polemics!
TCross
Talk about *****, Terry is full of it!
This is the best he can do to argue against the truth.
.
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| User: "Ralph" |
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| Title: Re: Darwin Destroyed Trotsky's Faith In God |
17 Aug 2006 12:52:47 PM |
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"cactus" <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote in message
news:cX1Fg.321$yO7.254@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Ralph wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155834000.408226.11070@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
cactus wrote:
Stan Engel wrote:
This is off-topic ***** and a crossposting troll.
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1155826523.116731.320330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v23/i2/darwin_trotsky.asp
The Darwin/Trotsky connection
It's sort of relevant to alt.talk.creationism because these guys post
lots of polemical material that relate anything they don't like to
Darwin. Expect something relating Idi Amin's and Saddam Hussein's
behaviors to having read Darwin. I'm sure a piece on Osama bin Laden
having read Darwin is coming soon to an NG or Church near you.
But you will not find anything about Jonas Salk or Walter Reed or Nelson
Mandela reading Darwin.
Just more biased misinformation from fanatics who care more about their
position than the truth.
Talk about biased - what is wrong with Osama bin Laden? You presume
that everyone evil is named Hitler or some other Arabic name. What
prejudice! Notice how you never publish anything about Omar Khyam or
Mu?ammad ibn Musa al-?warizmi?
Such polemics!
TCross
Talk about *****, Terry is full of it!
This is the best he can do to argue against the truth.
Yes, he does have difficulty handling the truth. Perhaps that is because he
is basically dishonest as shown by his posts.
.
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