Uncle Davey wrote:

"David" <hdsienkiewicz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105751045.156065.168690@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Uncle Davey wrote:

"David" <hdsienkiewicz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105749488.030910.269420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Uncle Davey wrote:

"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:558gu0h34975pfii0na2rtp6421bmtspqa@4ax.com...

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 06:18:22 GMT, "Jason Gastrich"
<usenetspam1@yahoo.com> said in alt.atheism:

Al Klein wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 01:32:40 +0100, "Uncle Davey"

<noway@jose.com>

said in alt.atheism:

Get ready to meet your Maker, Mark. You cannot put Him

in a

killfile.

That desperate already?

<plonk>

If you would only tell people like Mark that they

shouldn't

speak

an act

as

they do, you wouldn't see reactions like Davey's and you

wouldn't

"have"

to

plonk anyone.

I plonk almost anyone who resorts to the Christian threat.

I've

been

dead, so I know the person is merely blowing smoke and has

nothing

interesting to say.

Chistians are always policing themselves

*****. Post the sites "policing" Fred Phelps. Post

links

to

posts

in alt.atheism "policing" Christians who violate the

alt.atheism

FAQ.

and trying to behave in a righteous
manner. Of course, this involves the words we speak.

It's

too

bad that

the

non-Christians in this newsgroup have no sense of this.

It's too bad that Christians posting to alt.atheism don't

either.

Unbelievers can curse like they're in a bar room brawl and

nobody

says a

word.

Because we don't claim the moral high ground - you do.

Then

demonstrate that you're as dishonest as can be.

It's too bad you killfiled Davey, Al. He cared about you

and

was

enjoying

your conversation.

No. If he did he would have taken the trouble to

understand

that I

don't want his religious *****. He didn't, so he

doesn't.

(Caring about my "soul" isn't something that carries any

weight

with

me - it just marks the person who feels that way as 1)

disingenuous,

2) stupid and 3) insane. Having been dead gives one a MUCH

better

perspective on what it's like than Christianity does.)

It's also too bad you support a person like Mark Bilbo
over a person like Davey.

Why? Mark is sane. Mark is interesting. Davey is a

little

annoyance, like a mosquito bite the next day. A killfile

is

the

calamine lotion for his ilk.

You're betting on the wrong horse, muchacho.

The Christian threat? Sorry, Jason, you can't scare

someone

who's

been there with tales about what he'll find when he gets

there.

And

trying to do so when you *haven't* been there just makes

you

sound

like a little child. You'd do much better to listen to

those

who

HAVE

been there.

You haven't been dead, Al.

You only think you have.

Davey, unless you've had the same experience, this is not an

argument

you want to make.

Trust me.

If he had been dead, according to our theology he would not have

come

back

from the dead. We have not yet had the general resurrection.

In case you haven't noticed, neither he nor I are bound by your
theology.

And your theology isn't reality.

Al's been through reality.

A person may be declared dead by medical practitioners, but the

mother of my

three children was also pronounced infertile by medical

practitioners.

Medical practitioners can make errors, that's true. But it's hard

to

miss a flatline.

The devil is interested in making an atheist believe they have

had

death

experience, in order to lull people into a false sense of

security.

Again, you presume to require others to adhere to your theology and
apply it to a real world situation in which your theology simply

does

not apply.

The devil exists to you, Davey, but there is no evidence for him.
Consequently, you choose to believe - that's your faith.

But it isn't Al's.

His experience - and mine - were real. No devils, no angels, no

Jesus,

no tunnels - none of that.

Had he
concrete evidence, he would not be plonking me for issuing what

he

calls the

Christian threat, he would have the confidence to engage on it,

instead of

freaking out at it.

I know how you feel about killfiles and we've had that discussion -

I

tend to agree that the best killfile is your sight. Just ignore

what

and whom you don't wish to read.

But you really should get out of the habit of pretending that a

failure

or refusal to discuss certain things with you or anyone else is the
result of a lack of confidence.

You always lose those arguments.

I am calling his bluff on this one, and I'm sure you would do the

same in my

position.

No, I would not.

First of all, I've been there.

You haven't.

Secondly, I don't see it as a bluff. The premise is false, so your
conclusion is false.

Al is handling himself quite well in dealing with Jason.

While I hold you at an intellectual level a few notches above

Jason, I

don't really think you'd do any better.

All right, you say you have been clinically dead, and he has been

clinically

dead.

And you are in a snit because you've been killfiled.

We've seen this before, Davey. I've always been amused at the change
in tone that is evident in your messages when you've been told you've
been killfiled.

Then answer me this, how come you believe in God, but he is an

atheist?

I think you're extrapolating from my statement that I am not an atheist
and presuming that my view of God is the same as yours, aren't you?

That's a flawed premise, Davey. Do you know anything about the various
flavors of Jewish theology or do you just assume that they are all the
same?

Even various christian sects have differing views on what happens after
death - whether one is immediately resurrected or lies in the grave
until the return of Jesus Christ and what is to follow.

But to answer your question, I can't speak for Al, so I don't know why
he's an atheist, but I have little doubt that my belief in my view of
God exists simply because it always has in the form in which it exists.
I never had any expectation of any sort of supernatural event in the
minutes after death.

I am utterly convinced that God, as described in christian theology,
doesn't exist. My views of God are closer to a deist view.

Jesus probably didn't exist as described in the New Testament - he was
likely an Essene itinerant, one of many during that time, and his New
Testament representation is a fanciful recreation and exaggeration
that, even today, really just feeds the fear of death and feelings of
inadequacy that many feel.

Regardless, if he existed at all, he'd dead. He won't be coming back.

He couldn't save HIMSELF in THIS life. He's not going to "save" anyone
else in the next.

Christianity is scientifically, historically and even logically
incoherent, inconsistent, and outright wrong.
In a nutshell, that's where I stand. Does that clear it up for you?