| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"David.Callyar" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 10:52:41 PM |
| Object: |
DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
NASB:
1 Samuel 18:
21 Saul thought, "I will give her to him that she may become
a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
against him." Therefore Saul said to David, " For a second time
you may be my son-in-law today."
YLT
21 and Saul saith, `I give her to him, and she is to him
for a snare, and the hand of the Philistines is on him;'
and Saul saith unto David, `By the second thou dost become --
my son-in-law to-day.'
Darby
21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a
snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
upon him. And Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my
son-in-law a second time.
The Marriage contract of David and Jonathan
2 Samuel 21:
7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the
son of Saul, because of the LORD'S oath that was between them,
between David and Jonathan the son of Saul.
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
The brethren is a husband the same as a sister is a wife.
Song 4:
10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is
thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!
Sister = 'achowth {aw-khoth'} root of 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) sister
a) sister (same parents)
b) half-sister (same father)
c) relative
1) (metaph) of Israel's and Judah"s relationship
d) beloved
1) bride <-----------
e) (fig.) of intimate connection
f) another
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Brethren = 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) brother
a) brother of same parents
b) half-brother (same father)
c) relative, kinship, same tribe <-----------
d) each to the other (reciprocal relationship)
e) (fig.) of resemblance
To say the bible condemns homosexuality and same sex marriage
is an out right lie. They had no concept of homosexuality at the
time the bible was written. It is impossible for the bible to say one
word about homosexuality, it could not have even entered their
minds. Why is the News Media lying?
It is hard to imagine but true that at one time there was no such
thing as the concept of a gay identity. It was the 1860s and
political activity by Ulrichs and Kertbeny to remove criminal
stigma from such behavior that was the impetus for the invention
of the homosexual.
By Warren Throckmorton, PhD, July 2, 2003
.
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| User: "I Am Your Clayton, Luke!" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 02:40:15 AM |
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"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message
news:40319782.50A3BE71@Callyarallz.com...
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
NASB:
1 Samuel 18:
21 Saul thought, "I will give her to him that she may become
a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
against him." Therefore Saul said to David, " For a second time
you may be my son-in-law today."
YLT
21 and Saul saith, `I give her to him, and she is to him
for a snare, and the hand of the Philistines is on him;'
and Saul saith unto David, `By the second thou dost become --
my son-in-law to-day.'
Darby
21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a
snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
upon him. And Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my
son-in-law a second time.
And the band doth strike up "It's Raining Men" and they all did dance they
booties off.
.
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| User: "MrPepper11" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 10:15:25 PM |
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"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message news:<40319782.50A3BE71@Callyarallz.com>...
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
Soooo... What did David and Jonathan beget?
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 11:39:21 PM |
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MrPepper11 wrote:
"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message news:<40319782.50A3BE71@Callyarallz.com>...
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
Soooo... What did David and Jonathan beget?
Better yet, how old was Mary, the mother of Jesus and the house
of David, and what does that make God who had sex with her?
Songs 8:
8 We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we
do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?
The Talmud recommended that a daughter be given in marriage when
na'rah, between the age of twelve and twelve and a half, but a
father could marry her off well before that time. A boy reached his
age of majority at thirteen and was then eligible to negotiate
his own affairs. The marriage contract followed by the act of
sexual intercourse authorized possession of the female property.
Genesis 19:
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 05:11:46 AM |
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"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
I take it you found yourself with some free time?
--
Midwinter
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
16 Feb 2004 11:10:03 PM |
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David.Callyar wrote:
The brethren is a husband the same as a sister is a wife.
LOL - what a plonker.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 10:03:24 AM |
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TehGhodTrole wrote:
David.Callyar wrote:
The brethren is a husband the same as a sister is a wife.
LOL - what a plonker.
So far all there is only children who want to cover their heads
in the invention of a myth of homosexuality, and unwilling to
even entertain the idea they are wrong. That the facts prove
there was never a sin of homosexuality in the bible and there
were same sex marriages. The original language, and context
proves they had no problem with same sex marriages nor
homosexuality.
Who does a hermaphrodite marry in your narrow little world?
They have both sexes everyone is the same sex to them.
Mat 19:
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their
mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made
eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made
themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is
able to receive it, let him receive it. (Marriage)
In other words even hermaphrodites (eunuchs which were so born)
with both sexes can marry. A same sex relation.
David married Jonathan and Jesus is the lineage of David. Jesus
was shown as the best man at the same sex marriage of St. Serge to
St. Baachus. Jesus said a hermaphrodite could marry if they could
do so for life, and God makes hermaphrodites that can only marry
the same sex or be attracted to the same sex, because they have
both sexes. Marriage has always been between any two or more people
as property or for love.
The very idea of the "homosexual" concept, as an individual defined
as exclusively attracted to the same sex is a modern social
construction. By example it can be pointed out just how little was
placed on the sex of the mate one chose. Suetonius, the Roman
biographer, relates that Julius Caesar (100-44 bc) a little before
the Christian era, had sex with King Nicomedes of Bithynia, and in
an oration by Curio the Elder, he called Caesar a woman for all men
and a man for all women. Emperor Nero, who reigned between 54 and
68 ad, took the marriage vows with a young man named Sporus, in a
very public ceremony
Legal references to marriages of two males, that still exist, occur
as early as the 4th, 5th, and 6th centuries. Montaigne saw it
performed in Rome in his lifetime. Venetian ambassadors to
Rome in the 17th and 18th centuries wrote of the same sex
marriage practice. The heterosexual marriage (as thought of today)
derives principally from Roman secular customs. It originally
consisted of the ceremony at which the husband took over the
possession of the wife from her father, because women and
children were property of the father and the girls were
transferred as property to the husband. In 1215, heterosexual
marriage was officially declared a sacrament by the
Roman Catholic Church, and consent was recognized as a
necessary component of the union.
In contrast, the same-sex marriage service was from the beginning
performed in a church (not outside the church or at home as
heterosexual marriages as a property transfer contract), and was
always thought of as a sacrament. It always involved consent,
because men were equal and not property, and the same-sex service
pre-dates as a religious service any heterosexual one.
The church had a "Office of Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th century)
and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) married his companion John.
Such homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in the late
12th/early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales
(Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.
At St John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish
Church) in 1578 as many as 13 couples were "married" at
Mass by the local clergy, "taking Communion together, using the
same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together",
as reported by a contemporary report. In Rome same sex marriages
were performed up to the first half of the 18th century, when
it was observed by the Venetian ambassadors to Rome. It was
performed in the Italy and to the east up through the 18th and
19th centuries. These services appears in Greek liturgical manuals
of the 17th and 18th century which are officially approved
by the Roman Catholic Church.
Since the time of the same sex marriage with Jesus pictured as
the best man of St. Serge to St. Bacchus and their subsequent
martyrdom, it became the archetype for the same-sex marriage,
that prayers woud say things like "united like Serge and Bacchus."
To say that marriage has always been between one man to one
woman flies in the face of legal and liturgical documents that
date back before 2000 years ago.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 04:36:14 PM |
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David.Callyar wrote:
TehGhodTrole wrote:
David.Callyar wrote:
[snip, ahem, "facts"]
LOL - what a plonker.
Who does a hermaphrodite marry in your narrow little world?
Actually, I have a dear uncle who, rather unfortunately, is hermaphrodite.
Some twenty years ago he was confirmed as being biologically female due to
advances in various hormone technologies, but at birth the doctors
registered him as male. Sadly, the dictates of the original doctor cannot be
legally changed and now he cannot marry as a female. The situation he found
himself in, juxtaposed over against his true inner being and knowledge of
what his hormones were doing, caused him immense mental torture as well as
deep, sad and very, very painful anguish.
You will note the reference to he and not she. It seems the dictates of his
parents are also difficult to change, as are the habits born of seeing him
unwillingly, timidly and ungainly attempt to play football under duress as a
slim, pretty faced boy of 13 with jiggling breasts.
He is now a happy person. He eventually found a loving male partner who
truly loves him for what she is.
Oh, and BTW, thanks for pointing out "[my] narrow little world" from the
terribly tight confines of your own.
<aside>
What a plonker. There he is, sitting in the sewer, complaining about the
stench and totally unware he's adding to it.
*plonk*
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 05:14:23 PM |
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TehGhodTrole wrote:
David.Callyar wrote:
TehGhodTrole wrote:
David.Callyar wrote:
[snip, ahem, "facts"]
LOL - what a plonker.
Who does a hermaphrodite marry in your narrow little world?
Actually, I have a dear uncle who, rather unfortunately, is hermaphrodite.
Some twenty years ago he was confirmed as being biologically female due to
advances in various hormone technologies, but at birth the doctors
registered him as male. Sadly, the dictates of the original doctor cannot be
legally changed and now he cannot marry as a female. The situation he found
himself in, juxtaposed over against his true inner being and knowledge of
what his hormones were doing, caused him immense mental torture as well as
deep, sad and very, very painful anguish.
Which if we did not have this idiotic simian hierarchical hypermacho
mentality of the need to stick people into a dichotomy box of one
or the other box of male or female, and the need to only allow
marriages as defined as one only between a man and a woman,
then 10 million intersexuals in the USA would not have to worry
if they are legally married or not, they would just marry who they
choose. Many intersexual only find out they are intersexuals
when they find out they are infertile and go to the doctor to see
why, and to their horror in the USA they find out they are illegally
married, and now what do they do.
You will note the reference to he and not she. It seems the dictates of his
parents are also difficult to change, as are the habits born of seeing him
unwillingly, timidly and ungainly attempt to play football under duress as a
slim, pretty faced boy of 13 with jiggling breasts.
He is now a happy person. He eventually found a loving male partner who
truly loves him for what she is.
Oh, and BTW, thanks for pointing out "[my] narrow little world" from the
terribly tight confines of your own.
<aside>
What a plonker. There he is, sitting in the sewer, complaining about the
stench and totally unware he's adding to it.
Yes, I have always been called a ***** lover or a ***** for
fighting for human rights, what is new. Bigots don't change the
just change the group they hate.
Still Yelling Segregation Now, Segregation Forever.
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 05:50:02 PM |
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David.Callyar wrote:
TehGhodTrole wrote:
<aside>
What a plonker. There he is, sitting in the sewer, complaining about
the stench and totally unware he's adding to it.
Yes, I have always been called a ***** lover or a ***** for
fighting for human rights, what is new. Bigots don't change the
just change the group they hate.
<aside>
What a complete plonker. His concern over hermaphrodites and their plight
was soothed by relating, with deep personal care and understanding, the very
same plight of a dear relative, whom I love. And yet, here I am, apparently
by implication, a right bigot. Hatred does strange things to the demented
mind.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 10:09:50 AM |
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It is clear in the Bible, when David's servant left, David and
Jonathan slept together.
Shan
"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message news:<40319782.50A3BE71@Callyarallz.com>...
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
NASB:
1 Samuel 18:
21 Saul thought, "I will give her to him that she may become
a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
against him." Therefore Saul said to David, " For a second time
you may be my son-in-law today."
YLT
21 and Saul saith, `I give her to him, and she is to him
for a snare, and the hand of the Philistines is on him;'
and Saul saith unto David, `By the second thou dost become --
my son-in-law to-day.'
Darby
21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a
snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
upon him. And Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my
son-in-law a second time.
The Marriage contract of David and Jonathan
2 Samuel 21:
7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the
son of Saul, because of the LORD'S oath that was between them,
between David and Jonathan the son of Saul.
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
The brethren is a husband the same as a sister is a wife.
Song 4:
10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is
thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!
Sister = 'achowth {aw-khoth'} root of 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) sister
a) sister (same parents)
b) half-sister (same father)
c) relative
1) (metaph) of Israel's and Judah"s relationship
d) beloved
1) bride <-----------
e) (fig.) of intimate connection
f) another
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Brethren = 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) brother
a) brother of same parents
b) half-brother (same father)
c) relative, kinship, same tribe <-----------
d) each to the other (reciprocal relationship)
e) (fig.) of resemblance
To say the bible condemns homosexuality and same sex marriage
is an out right lie. They had no concept of homosexuality at the
time the bible was written. It is impossible for the bible to say one
word about homosexuality, it could not have even entered their
minds. Why is the News Media lying?
It is hard to imagine but true that at one time there was no such
thing as the concept of a gay identity. It was the 1860s and
political activity by Ulrichs and Kertbeny to remove criminal
stigma from such behavior that was the impetus for the invention
of the homosexual.
By Warren Throckmorton, PhD, July 2, 2003
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 10:48:12 AM |
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Shan wrote:
It is clear in the Bible, when David's servant left, David and
Jonathan slept together.
There is a long history in the bible that makes it clear David
liked men.
David liked to watch men as a youth
1 Samuel 17:
28 And Eliab his eldest brother heard when he spake unto the
men; and Eliab's anger was kindled against David, and he said,
Why camest thou down hither? and with whom hast thou left those
few sheep in the wilderness? I know thy pride, and the
naughtiness of thine heart; for thou art come down that thou
mightest see the battle.
David liked to sleep with men
2 Sam 11:
13 And when David had called him, he did eat and drink before
him; and he made him drunk: and at even he went out to lie on
his bed with the servants of his lord, but went not down to his
house.
Jonathan & David sex
1 Samuel 20:
17 And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him:
for he loved him as he loved his own soul.
1 Samuel 18:
4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and
to his bow, and to his girdle.
1 Samuel 20:
4 Then said Jonathan unto David, Whatsoever thy soul desireth,
I will even do it for thee.
1 Samuel 20:
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place
toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed
himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one
with another, until David exceeded.
1 Samuel 20:
30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto
him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that
thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the
confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
Shan
"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message news:<40319782.50A3BE71@Callyarallz.com>...
Proof of the same sex polyandrous marriage of David to Michal
and Jonathan. Saul had two sons and two daughters, one
daughter was already married that leaves only a son to marry
the second time.
NASB:
1 Samuel 18:
21 Saul thought, "I will give her to him that she may become
a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
against him." Therefore Saul said to David, " For a second time
you may be my son-in-law today."
YLT
21 and Saul saith, `I give her to him, and she is to him
for a snare, and the hand of the Philistines is on him;'
and Saul saith unto David, `By the second thou dost become --
my son-in-law to-day.'
Darby
21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a
snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be
upon him. And Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my
son-in-law a second time.
The Marriage contract of David and Jonathan
2 Samuel 21:
7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the
son of Saul, because of the LORD'S oath that was between them,
between David and Jonathan the son of Saul.
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
The brethren is a husband the same as a sister is a wife.
Song 4:
10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is
thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!
Sister = 'achowth {aw-khoth'} root of 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) sister
a) sister (same parents)
b) half-sister (same father)
c) relative
1) (metaph) of Israel's and Judah"s relationship
d) beloved
1) bride <-----------
e) (fig.) of intimate connection
f) another
Psa 133:
1 A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant
it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Brethren = 'ach {awkh} (0251)
1) brother
a) brother of same parents
b) half-brother (same father)
c) relative, kinship, same tribe <-----------
d) each to the other (reciprocal relationship)
e) (fig.) of resemblance
To say the bible condemns homosexuality and same sex marriage
is an out right lie. They had no concept of homosexuality at the
time the bible was written. It is impossible for the bible to say one
word about homosexuality, it could not have even entered their
minds. Why is the News Media lying?
It is hard to imagine but true that at one time there was no such
thing as the concept of a gay identity. It was the 1860s and
political activity by Ulrichs and Kertbeny to remove criminal
stigma from such behavior that was the impetus for the invention
of the homosexual.
By Warren Throckmorton, PhD, July 2, 2003
.
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| User: "W.Syme" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
16 Feb 2004 10:55:07 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
--
==I am an atheist==
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
18 Feb 2004 01:29:25 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:55:07 GMT, W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Since he crossposted to:
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc,alt.bible,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.politics.democrats.d
and will never respond: no.
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| User: "#a344" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 03:12:49 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:55:07 GMT, W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc,alt.bible,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.politics.democrats.d
Depends whch of the groups its crosspoted to you happen to be reading
it in
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 10:06:55 AM |
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W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Only if you want to dscuse the facts, not the myths of a sin
of homosexuality in the bible, when that is impossible they
did not have a concept of homosexualuty at the time the
bible was written.
"The same applies to the concept of an 'exclusively homosexually
orientated person.' This was a discovery of only 150 years ago.
Go to the Bible and it simply is not there. Often, people speak
of the clear Biblical teaching about how to deal pastorally
with homosexual people, but that is a real howler. The Bible
knows nothing of the existence of homosexual people. No doubt
there were such people in the ancient world and others would
have had the experience of engaging with them, but they were
blind to their existence as 'homosexually orientated people'
because they did not yet have the concept of 'exclusive
homosexual orientation' with which to order their raw
experiences."
By Dr Carnley is a Cambridge PhD, and Archbishop of Perth
The sin was idolatry not homosexuality.
The rituals performed in Ugaritic worship involved a great deal
of alcohol and sexual promiscuity. Worship at Ugarit was
essentially a drunken orgy in which priests and worshippers
indulged in excessive drinking and excessive sexuality. This
because the worshippers were attempting to convince Baal
to send rain on their crops. Since rain and semen were seen
in the ancient world as the same thing (as both produced fruit),
it simply makes sense that participants in fertility religion
behaved this way.
http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm
David married Jonathan and Jesus is the lineage of David. Jesus
was shown as the best man at the same sex marriage of St. Serge to
St. Baachus. Jesus said a hermaphrodite could marry if they could
do so for life, and God makes hermaphrodites that can only marry
the same sex or be attracted to the same sex, because they have
both sexes. Marriage has always been between any two or more people
as property or for love.
The very idea of the "homosexual" concept, as an individual defined
as exclusively attracted to the same sex is a modern social
construction. By example it can be pointed out just how little was
placed on the sex of the mate one chose. Suetonius, the Roman
biographer, relates that Julius Caesar (100-44 bc) a little before
the Christian era, had sex with King Nicomedes of Bithynia, and in
an oration by Curio the Elder, he called Caesar a woman for all men
and a man for all women. Emperor Nero, who reigned between 54 and
68 ad, took the marriage vows with a young man named Sporus, in a
very public ceremony
Legal references to marriages of two males, that still exist, occur
as early as the 4th, 5th, and 6th centuries. Montaigne saw it
performed in Rome in his lifetime. Venetian ambassadors to
Rome in the 17th and 18th centuries wrote of the same sex
marriage practice. The heterosexual marriage (as thought of today)
derives principally from Roman secular customs. It originally
consisted of the ceremony at which the husband took over the
possession of the wife from her father, because women and
children were property of the father and the girls were
transferred as property to the husband. In 1215, heterosexual
marriage was officially declared a sacrament by the
Roman Catholic Church, and consent was recognized as a
necessary component of the union.
In contrast, the same-sex marriage service was from the beginning
performed in a church (not outside the church or at home as
heterosexual marriages as a property transfer contract), and was
always thought of as a sacrament. It always involved consent,
because men were equal and not property, and the same-sex service
pre-dates as a religious service any heterosexual one.
The church had a "Office of Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th century)
and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) married his companion John.
Such homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in the late
12th/early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales
(Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.
At St John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish
Church) in 1578 as many as 13 couples were "married" at
Mass by the local clergy, "taking Communion together, using the
same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together",
as reported by a contemporary report. In Rome same sex marriages
were performed up to the first half of the 18th century, when
it was observed by the Venetian ambassadors to Rome. It was
performed in the Italy and to the east up through the 18th and
19th centuries. These services appears in Greek liturgical manuals
of the 17th and 18th century which are officially approved
by the Roman Catholic Church.
Since the time of the same sex marriage with Jesus pictured as
the best man of St. Serge to St. Bacchus and their subsequent
martyrdom, it became the archetype for the same-sex marriage,
that prayers woud say things like "united like Serge and Bacchus."
To say that marriage has always been between one man to one
woman flies in the face of legal and liturgical documents that
date back before 2000 years ago.
.
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| User: "W.Syme" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
17 Feb 2004 07:45:14 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:06:55 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Only if you want to dscuse the facts, not the myths of a sin
of homosexuality in the bible, when that is impossible they
did not have a concept of homosexualuty at the time the
bible was written.
An easier way would be to stop believing in the bible altogether, then
it wouldn't matter whatever is in there.
--
==I am an atheist==
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
18 Feb 2004 10:42:58 AM |
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W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:06:55 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Only if you want to dscuse the facts, not the myths of a sin
of homosexuality in the bible, when that is impossible they
did not have a concept of homosexualuty at the time the
bible was written.
An easier way would be to stop believing in the bible altogether, then
it wouldn't matter whatever is in there.
Well like the blacks becoming the newest Grand Wizards
in the KKK battle cry of Segregation Now, Segregation
Forever, the tables have turned in South Africa, with a
white christian Reich Winger, fed a black to the lions.
Times they are a changing, don't hold your breath on
christians giving up on their Santa God.
.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
19 Feb 2004 08:16:34 AM |
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The were actually pledged to one other as if brothers. In otherwords they
became 'blood brothers' without the blood
"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message
news:40338EEC.61209DC1@Callyarallz.com...
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:06:55 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Only if you want to dscuse the facts, not the myths of a sin
of homosexuality in the bible, when that is impossible they
did not have a concept of homosexualuty at the time the
bible was written.
An easier way would be to stop believing in the bible altogether, then
it wouldn't matter whatever is in there.
Well like the blacks becoming the newest Grand Wizards
in the KKK battle cry of Segregation Now, Segregation
Forever, the tables have turned in South Africa, with a
white christian Reich Winger, fed a black to the lions.
Times they are a changing, don't hold your breath on
christians giving up on their Santa God.
.
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| User: "David.Callyar" |
|
| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
19 Feb 2004 09:40:23 AM |
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Rick wrote:
The were actually pledged to one other as if brothers. In otherwords they
became 'blood brothers' without the blood
Yeah keep telling yourself that.
1 Samuel 20:
17 And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him:
for he loved him as he loved his own soul.
1 Samuel 18:
4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him,
and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and
to his bow, and to his girdle.
1 Samuel 20:
4 Then said Jonathan unto David, Whatsoever thy soul desireth,
I will even do it for thee.
1 Samuel 20:
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place
toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed
himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one
with another, until David exceeded.
2 Samuel 1:
26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant
hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing
the love of women.
If that is brotherly love, well, they call it incest today.
"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message
news:40338EEC.61209DC1@Callyarallz.com...
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:06:55 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
W.Syme wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:52:41 GMT, "David.Callyar"
<David@Callyarallz.com> wrote:
snip
Is this guy worth replying to?
Only if you want to dscuse the facts, not the myths of a sin
of homosexuality in the bible, when that is impossible they
did not have a concept of homosexualuty at the time the
bible was written.
An easier way would be to stop believing in the bible altogether, then
it wouldn't matter whatever is in there.
Well like the blacks becoming the newest Grand Wizards
in the KKK battle cry of Segregation Now, Segregation
Forever, the tables have turned in South Africa, with a
white christian Reich Winger, fed a black to the lions.
Times they are a changing, don't hold your breath on
christians giving up on their Santa God.
.
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: DAVID MARRIED JONATHAN IN THE BIBLE |
20 Feb 2004 11:01:15 AM |
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"David.Callyar" <David@Callyarallz.com> wrote in message news:<4034D17B.1C9107C9@Callyarallz.com>...
Rick wrote:
The were actually pledged to one other as if brothers. In otherwords they
became 'blood brothers' without the blood
Yeah keep telling yourself that.
They keep on fooling themselves while they know for sure that David
was an SOB, not for his sexual orientation, poor baby queen, but for
his being a super ***** in back stabbing -- I know I should not
mention both subjects at the same time for fear of sounding
pornographic.
;)
Shan
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