| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
08 Jan 2006 03:28:06 AM |
| Object: |
Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
---
Religion a form of child abuse
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
CONTROVERSIAL scientist Richard Dawkins will assert tomorrow evening
that religion is a virus that amounts to child abuse.
The new two-part series, to be shown on Channel 4, will compare Moses to
Hitler and claim that God is racist. It will also argue that religion is
a backward belief system responsible for terrorism.
The controversial films, which were produced by IWC creative director
Alan Clements and written by Dawkins, are a polemic against faith and a
stout defence of science.
Entitled The Root Of All Evil, the series shows Dawkins visiting
theological hot-spots in Lourdes, Colorado Springs, the al-Axa mosque
and an English faith school. In each case the presenter, who is an
atheist, attempts to show that religion is an elephant in the room
trying to subvert reason.
In the first film, The God Delusion, Dawkins claims that Lourdes, a
Catholic pilgrimage destination in France, symbolises a belief system
based on delusion. If you want to experience the mediaeval rituals of
faith, the candle light, the incense, music, important-sounding dead
languages, nobody does it better than the Catholics, he says.
Dawkins then travels to the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, where
he hits out at the influence of Christian fascism and an American
Taliban.
This is followed by an interview with Yousef al-Khattab, an
American-born Jew turned fundamentalist Muslim, who clashes with Dawkins
after saying he hates atheists.
In the second film, The Virus of Faith, Dawkins turns his attention to
the effect he believes religion has on young people. Innocent children
are being saddled with demonstrable falsehoods, he says.
More controversially, he states sectarian religious schools have been
deeply damaging to generations of children. Its time to question the
abuse of childhood innocence with superstitious ideas of hellfire and
damnation , he says. Isnt it weird the way we automatically label a tiny
child with its parents religion?
Dawkins also questions the fundamental tenets of Christianity. On the
idea of a spiritual creator, he says: The God of the Old Testament has
got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous, and
proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist.
The author of The Selfish Gene then criticises Abraham, compares Moses
to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, before calling the New Testament St Pauls
nasty, sado-masochistic doctrine of atonement for original sin.
The films are set to be controversial because Dawkins has made no
attempt to disguise his contempt for religion. They come at a time when
Tony Blair has signalled his support for faith schools, while he has
also backed new laws to outlaw religious hatred.
It will also be controversial as the series was produced by Clements,
who is married to BBC journalist Kirsty Wark. The Newsnight presenter
caused a storm in 2002 when she called on head teachers to question the
separate funding of Catholic schools.
Clements said : Programmes like this need to be made and watched. But I
cant take credit for the philosophy of it and the way its expressed.
John Deighan, a spokesman for the Catholic Church, hit out at the
programmes denunciation of religion: Dawkins is well known for his
vitriolic attacks on faith, and I think faith has withstood his attacks.
He really is going beyond his abilities as a scientist when he starts to
venture into the field of philosophy and theology. He is the guy with
demonstrable problems, he said.
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
---
http://www.sundayherald.com/53427
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "turk" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 05:42:56 AM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-F82AB4.01280608012006@news.giganews.com...
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
---
Religion a form of child abuse
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
CONTROVERSIAL scientist Richard Dawkins will assert tomorrow evening
that religion is a virus that amounts to child abuse.
The new two-part series, to be shown on Channel 4, will compare Moses to
Hitler and claim that God is racist. It will also argue that religion is
a backward belief system responsible for terrorism.
I hope there will be a way to get these on DVD for those of us living under
the rule of the American Taliban. Maybe some enterprising ebayer will make
copies and put them up for sale.
turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
09 Jan 2006 12:40:29 AM |
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In article <q5idnV-xOPFcZ13eRVn-pQ@comcast.com>,
"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-F82AB4.01280608012006@news.giganews.com...
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
---
Religion a form of child abuse
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
CONTROVERSIAL scientist Richard Dawkins will assert tomorrow evening
that religion is a virus that amounts to child abuse.
The new two-part series, to be shown on Channel 4, will compare Moses to
Hitler and claim that God is racist. It will also argue that religion is
a backward belief system responsible for terrorism.
I hope there will be a way to get these on DVD for those of us living under
the rule of the American Taliban. Maybe some enterprising ebayer will make
copies and put them up for sale.
turk
I'll be looking for one too. I'll also look for transcripts, if
available.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 02:48:23 PM |
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On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 05:42:56 -0600, "turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-F82AB4.01280608012006@news.giganews.com...
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
---
Religion a form of child abuse
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
CONTROVERSIAL scientist Richard Dawkins will assert tomorrow evening
that religion is a virus that amounts to child abuse.
The new two-part series, to be shown on Channel 4, will compare Moses to
Hitler and claim that God is racist. It will also argue that religion is
a backward belief system responsible for terrorism.
I hope there will be a way to get these on DVD for those of us living under
the rule of the American Taliban. Maybe some enterprising ebayer will make
copies and put them up for sale.
Somebody once told me that there was a thing called "file-sharing",
using something called a "torrent". It is, of course, highly illegal
to use these services to download copyrighted material but it's a fair
bet that these programmes will be available on this system.
turk
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 05:58:01 AM |
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Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be good
schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids into them,
ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 09:11:59 AM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dpquo8$gik$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be
good schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids into
them, ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
I actually went to extraordinary lengths myself to get my youngest into an
excellent school nearby.
Basically, I bribed the local vicar for a letter of recommendation as the
school only allowed new entrants whose parents could prove a religious
affiliation.
Fortunately, at seven years old, she's wise enough to dismiss the nonsense
they try to pump into her.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 10:23:24 AM |
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"Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42coe2F1i0afgU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dpquo8$gik$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be
good schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids
into them, ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
I actually went to extraordinary lengths myself to get my youngest into an
excellent school nearby.
Basically, I bribed the local vicar for a letter of recommendation as the
school only allowed new entrants whose parents could prove a religious
affiliation.
Fortunately, at seven years old, she's wise enough to dismiss the
nonsense they try to pump into her.
I know that my aunt got my cousins into a aussie catholic school, despite
the fact they're not.
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| User: "Steve O" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 12:57:50 PM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dpre9s$kqu$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
"Steve O" <stoboyle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42coe2F1i0afgU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dpquo8$gik$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today,
church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be
good schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids
into them, ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
I actually went to extraordinary lengths myself to get my youngest into
an excellent school nearby.
Basically, I bribed the local vicar for a letter of recommendation as the
school only allowed new entrants whose parents could prove a religious
affiliation.
Fortunately, at seven years old, she's wise enough to dismiss the
nonsense they try to pump into her.
I know that my aunt got my cousins into a aussie catholic school, despite
the fact they're not.
Everyone has their price, particularly my local vicar.
A large donation to his wife's playgroup toy fund was enough for him to
write me a nice letter saying how supportive of the church I am, despite
never having set foot in it.
Still, it was worth it - despite the religious nonsense it's an excellent
school.
It's unusual in that its a mixed denomination - both RC and Church Of
England.
If you want to get your child into a RC school, all you have to do is
promise to raise the kid Catholic - they'll do anything for fresh blood.
I particularly enjoy lying to the church- it makes up for all the years they
did it to me.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 04:21:33 PM |
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(http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1681235,00.html)
No wonder atheists are angry: they seem ready to believe anything
Richard Dawkins's latest attack on religion is an intellectually lazy
polemic not worthy of a great scientist
Madeleine Bunting
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian
On Monday, it's Richard Dawkins's turn (yet again) to take up the
cudgels against religious faith in a two-part Channel 4 programme, The
Root of All Evil? His voice is one of the loudest in an increasingly
shrill chorus of atheist humanists; something has got them badly
rattled. They even turned their bitter invective on Narnia. By all
means, let's have a serious debate about religious belief, one of the
most complex and fascinating phenomena on the planet, but the suspicion
is that it's not what this chorus wants. Behind unsubstantiated
assertions, sweeping generalisations and random anecdotal evidence,
there's the unmistakable whiff of panic; they fear religion is on the
march again.
Article continues
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------There's
an aggrieved frustration that they've been short-changed by history; we
were supposed to be all atheist rationalists by now. Secularisation was
supposed to be an inextricable part of progress. Even more grating,
what secularisation there has been is accompanied by the growth of
weird irrationalities from crystals to ley lines. As GK Chesterton
pointed out, the problem when people don't believe in God is not that
they believe nothing, it is that they believe anything.
There's an underlying anxiety that atheist humanism has failed. Over
the 20th century, atheist political regimes racked up an appalling (and
unmatched) record for violence. Atheist humanism hasn't generated a
compelling popular narrative and ethic of what it is to be human and
our place in the cosmos; where religion has retreated, the gap has been
filled with consumerism, football, Strictly Come Dancing and a mindless
absorption in passing desires. Not knowing how to answer the big
questions of life, we shelve them - we certainly don't develop the awe
towards and reverence for the natural world that Dawkins would want. So
the atheist humanists have been betrayed by the irrational, credulous
nature of human beings; a misanthropy is increasingly evident in
Dawkins's anti-religious polemic and among his many admirers.
This is the only context that can explain Dawkins's programme, a piece
of intellectually lazy polemic which is not worthy of a great
scientist. He uses his authority as a scientist to claim certainty
where he himself knows, all too well, that there is none; for example,
our sense of morality cannot simply be explained as a product of our
genetic struggle for evolutionary advantage. More irritatingly, he
doesn't apply to religion - the object of his repeated attacks - a
fraction of the intellectual rigour or curiosity that he has applied to
evolution (to deserved applause). Where is the grasp of the
sociological or anthropological explanations of the centrality of
religion? Sadly, there is no evolution of thought in Dawkins's
position; he has been saying much the same thing about religion for a
long time.
There are three areas in his programmes where the lack of rigour is
most striking. First, Dawkins is featured in Jerusalem; the point is
that religion causes violence and most of the world's conflicts can be
traced back to faith. If only they didn't have segregated schooling in
Israel and Palestine then peace could emerge. Likewise in Northern
Ireland.
Let's leave the political scientists to point out the absurd
simplification of these political struggles over land, rights and
resources, but take a wider point. Human beings develop collective
identities - ethnic, nationalist, religious or political - and find in
them a sense of belonging, of personal identity and solidarity; the
problem is how, at points of competition and threat, those identities
flare up into horrible violence. Pinning all the blame on religion
blindly ignores the evidence; the Rwandan tragedy was about ethnicity,
the Holocaust about a racist political ideology. Crucially it fails to
grasp the modern phenomenon of fundamentalism and how religious
identity is being mobilised in an attempt to carve out positions of
power within a rapidly globalising world; this kind of violent religion
is a political product of rapid social and economic change.
Second, Dawkins mounts a charge of "child abuse" against religious
education; it manipulates childish minds, inculcating in them a terror
of hell and damnation. On this argument, I'm with Dawkins for a while;
he's right that many religions have a horrible habit of using fear to
shore up their authority. But that's only part of the story - religion
can also provide children with a deep sense of confidence from the
teaching that they are each precious in the eyes of God, of reverence
for their gift of life and of ethical bearings.
His conclusion is that no children should be exposed to religion until
they are old enough to make a choice; anything else is indoctrination.
But this is quixotic; how can they ever make any choice without
knowledge and how can they ever have knowledge without running into
Dawkins's allegation of indoctrination? Furthermore, the concept of a
child to be kept a blank slate, free from parental influence, is absurd
- or does it just apply to religion, and if so, why? What about the
many ways in which parents shape children (so constraining many
choices) for both good and ill? Isn't the point that children should be
encouraged to develop thoughtful, inquiring minds and a strong ethical
framework - and that this is possible both with, or without, religious
belief?
Finally, Dawkins returns to the old complaint that religion "cuts off a
source of wonder"; he once famously described the medieval view of the
cosmos as "little" and "pokey". It's a revealing comment because it
exposes a remarkable lack of empathy for how people in other ages or
cultures imagine the world. That seems a terrible poverty of his
imagination. Just think: when most people's radius of experience was a
few miles, the world must have seemed a vast, deeply mysterious entity.
That lack of empathy also lies behind Dawkins's reference to a "process
of non-thinking called faith". For thousands of years, religious belief
has been accompanied by thought and intellectual discovery, whether
Islamic astronomy or the Renaissance. But his contempt is so profound
that he can't be bothered to even find out (in an interview he
dismissed Christian theology in exactly these terms). If this isn't the
"hidebound certainty" of which he accuses believers, I'm not sure what
is.
Let's be clear: it's absolutely right that religion should be subjected
to a vigorous critique, but let's have one that doesn't waste time
knocking down straw men. It's also right for religion to concede ground
to science to explain natural processes; but at the same time, science
has to concede that despite its huge advances it still cannot answer
questions about the nature of the universe - such as whether we are
freak chances of evolution in an indifferent cosmos (Dawkins does
finally acknowledge this point in the programmes).
Dawkins seems to want to magic religion away. It's a silly delusion
comparable to one of another great atheist humanist thinker, JS Mill.
He wanted to magic away another inescapable part of human experience -
sex; using not dissimilar arguments to Dawkins's, he pointed out the
violence and suffering caused by sexual desire, and dreamt of a day
when all human beings would no longer be infantilised by the need for
sexual gratification, and an alternative way would be found to
reproduce the human species. As true of Mill as it is of Dawkins: dream
on.
The Root of All Evil? begins on Channel 4 on Monday at 8pm
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
09 Jan 2006 12:36:45 AM |
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In article <dpquo8$gik$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be good
schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids into them,
ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
This is true in the US too. Many send their kids to religious schools
because they believe that they receive a better education there. There
are secular private schools, but they tend to be very pricey and out of
the reach of many.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
09 Jan 2006 09:45:57 AM |
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On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 11:58:01 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
They aren't over subscribed *because* of the religion they happen to be good
schools and people go to extraordinary lengths to get their kids into them,
ignoring the whole brainwashing part.
Many times they are only good schools in a relative sense. I went to
Catholic schools until I was 18. They were all (from a basic
education point of view) better than the public schools available in
the same area, but the public schools were really horrible and
under-funded. Compared to what public schools could be and still are
in some places, the education provided was mediocre at best; and it
has taken years to repair some of the emotional damage imposed by the
constant harping on guilt and fear of divine punishment. It is child
abuse and of the worst kind, i.e. it is approved of by the community;
so there is no place to go for help. It is difficult enough for the
victims to realize that they have been abused. They are expected to
be grateful.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Sanitys little helper" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 03:52:26 AM |
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On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 01:28:06 -0800, johac wrote:
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
That's not a claim, it's a fact:
Genesis 11:1-9:
1 Now the entire earth was of one language and uniform words.
2 And it came to pass when they traveled from the east, that they found a
valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.
3 And they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and fire them
thoroughly"; so the bricks were to them for stones, and the clay was to
them for mortar.
4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its
top in the heavens, and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered
upon the face of the entire earth".
5 And the Lord descended to see the city and the tower that the sons of man
had built.
6 And The LORD said, "Lo! [they are] one people, and they all have one
language, and this is what they have commenced to do. Now, will it not be
withheld from them, all that they have planned to do?
7 Come, let us descend and confuse their language, so that one will not
understand the language of his companion".
8 And the Lord scattered them from there upon the face of the entire earth,
and they ceased building the city.
9 Therefore, He named it Babel, for there the Lord confused the language of
the entire earth, and from there the Lord scattered them upon the face of
the entire earth.
--
I was brought up tpo believe that recieved wisdom is evil,
so do as you're told and stop being vicarious.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
09 Jan 2006 12:43:23 AM |
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In article <1ti763ip82rb5.14s7pzo2opejt.dlg@40tude.net>,
Sanity's little helper <elvish@noshpam.net> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 01:28:06 -0800, johac wrote:
Films compare Moses to Hitler and claim God is racist
By Paul Hutcheon
That's not a claim, it's a fact:
Genesis 11:1-9:
1 Now the entire earth was of one language and uniform words.
2 And it came to pass when they traveled from the east, that they found a
valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.
3 And they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and fire them
thoroughly"; so the bricks were to them for stones, and the clay was to
them for mortar.
4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its
top in the heavens, and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered
upon the face of the entire earth".
5 And the Lord descended to see the city and the tower that the sons of man
had built.
6 And The LORD said, "Lo! [they are] one people, and they all have one
language, and this is what they have commenced to do. Now, will it not be
withheld from them, all that they have planned to do?
7 Come, let us descend and confuse their language, so that one will not
understand the language of his companion".
8 And the Lord scattered them from there upon the face of the entire earth,
and they ceased building the city.
9 Therefore, He named it Babel, for there the Lord confused the language of
the entire earth, and from there the Lord scattered them upon the face of
the entire earth.
And the Hebrew conquest of Canaan is nothing more than genocide,
atrocity after atrocity, under direct orders of their God.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 04:02:11 AM |
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johac wrote:
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
snip
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
I will be very surprised if Dawkins says otherwise. Argument ad numerum
(or whatever it is called) anyone?
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: Dawkins: Religion a form of child abuse |
08 Jan 2006 06:31:47 PM |
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On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:02:11 GMT, Ash <ash.amanic@virgin.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
Oh my! The fundies are going to be jumping up and down over this. My
only regret is that I can't watch the series in the States.
snip
Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, accused Dawkins of deliberately
trying to be offensive. He said: These comments are meant to be
inflammatory and dont bear any relation to the facts. Even today, church
schools are over-subscribed. Hes prejudiced.
I will be very surprised if Dawkins says otherwise. Argument ad numerum
(or whatever it is called) anyone?
I think it's called: "Eat *****. Ten trillion flies can't be wrong".
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight (retired) | "The Truth against the World."
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