| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Michelle Malkin" |
| Date: |
14 Feb 2007 10:58:28 AM |
| Object: |
Dawkins, Ellen Johnson on CNN Paula Zahn Show |
From the PA Godless Digest and CNN:
Transcript: Dawkins, Ellen Johnson on CNN Paula Zahn show
Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:37 am (PST)
Paula Zahn Now
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0702/12/pzn.01.html
Aired February 12, 2007 - 20:00 ET
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks for joining us. Paula has got tonight
off.
Here are the stories that we're bringing out in the open tonight.
Barack Obama's race, Mitt Romney's religion, and the hidden intolerance of
American voters.
Also, the most controversial story that we have ever brought into the
open -- atheists say you will not believe the bigotry that they are up
against.
ROBERTS: We're out in the open tonight with a controversy that generated
thousands of e-mails when we first touched on it: intolerance against people
who don't believe there's a God.
So, what's it like to be an atheist in America?
Our Delia Gallagher looks at one family's disturbing experience.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE RICE, ATHEIST: As an atheist, I'm the last minority that it's OK to
really bash or put down.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jean and
Mike Rice are atheists who live in Colorado.
JEAN RICE, ATHEIST: We're regularly told that we're going to hell, that
we're sending our children to hell.
GALLAGHER (on camera): These are people saying this to your face?
J. RICE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
M. RICE: To our face.
GALLAGHER: It seems like a nice place to live.
M. RICE: Yes. Well, we have got a nice place to...
GALLAGHER: Yes.
M. RICE: ... to raise them.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Jean and Mike both grew up in Christian families,
attended church and Bible school, and both say that, at an early age, they
questioned the idea of a higher power.
J. RICE: I was 9 or 10. And, one day, for the first time, I realized that
everyone else believed all these stories. I just didn't realize what they
meant, that -- that there's actually, supposedly, something out there.
GALLAGHER: The price of coming out publicly as atheists can be high. In the
last town they lived in, Jean Rice says, soon after confiding her atheism to
a friend, her landlord told the family they would have to move.
J. RICE: Within a few days of my telling her that -- that we are atheists,
she -- I -- I started hearing from other people: Oh, are you atheists?
And it -- it was quite shocking. And, within a few weeks, my landlord -- our
landlord gave us notice.
GALLAGHER: The Rices say they can't prove that religious discrimination was
the reason they were asked to leave, but they found the timing suspicious.
(on camera): How has this affected your kids?
J. RICE: They have had to learn to keep their mouths shut.
M. RICE: Our daughter had no one to play with for a long time.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): The fear of becoming outcast keeps many atheists
underground. And what little support they find is often online, where
friends and neighbors can't see.
Jean belongs to an online support group for atheist moms.
(on camera): And why no curious Christians?
J. RICE: We're hear to talk among ourselves.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): In the U.S., the number of atheists is estimated
between 1 and 3 percent of the overall population. That's at least three
million people.
A recent study by the University of Minnesota found that atheists are the
least trusted minority group in the United States, and are less accepted
than other marginalized groups, including Muslims and homosexuals.
LORI LIPMAN BROWN, SECULAR COALITION FOR AMERICA: I get calls from all over
the United States from people who have been harassed, ostracized, sometimes
lost their jobs, because of discrimination against non-theistic Americans.
RYAN ANDERSON, JUNIOR FELLOW, "FIRST THINGS": We feel, to a certain extent,
that atheists are very much on the attack.
GALLAGHER: Ryan Anderson, with the religious journal "First Things" says,
atheists themselves contribute to the mistrust.
ANDERSON: Part of the public persona and the public image of atheism is
what's presented by the people suing, you know, to remove "In God we trust"
from the coins or the God phrase from the Pledge of Allegiance. And, when
that militant atheism becomes kind of like the public image of atheism, I
think that gives rise to a lot of discontent with atheism.
J. RICE: When they can talk about religion and preach on the street corner,
but, if we try to do the equal time, if we try to go out there and say as
much about that there is no God as they...
M. RICE: I'm not the one doing the oppressing.
J. RICE: ... want to say that there is a God...
M. RICE: I'm the one being oppressed at that point.
J. RICE: Exactly.
GALLAGHER: Delia Gallagher, CNN, Colorado.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Well, after we first brought this topic out in the open, most of
the e-mails that we received were from people who thought that we should
have included an atheist in our discussion.
So, now we're going to turn to one of the world's most prominent atheists.
Richard Dawkins is an Oxford University professor whose bestseller sparked
worldwide controversy. "The God Delusion" argues that belief in God is not
only irrational, but it can be deadly. Paula spoke with him just a couple of
days ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD DAWKINS, AUTHOR, "THE GOD DELUSION": Why don't you believe in Thor?
Why don't you believe in Zeus? Nobody believes in most of the things that
you could believe in. You're an atheist with respect to the flying spaghetti
monster.
I am an atheist with respect to the Judeo-Christian God, because there is
not a shred of evidence in favor or the Judeo-Christian God, or, indeed any
other God.
ZAHN: It strikes me that the atheist message is particularly threatening to
some Christians because they believe, in some way, you're trying to
compromise their ability to have this stuff out there on the public stage.
Is there any public role, as far as you're concerned, for religion?
DAWKINS: I think people should be free to believe whatever they like, to
write whatever they like, to say whatever they like, within -- within
reason.
But the problem is that religious people, I think especially in America, and
also in the Islamic world, are in the habit of getting it all their own way
and are remarkably intolerant of atheists.
ZAHN: But why do you think they are so remarkably intolerant of atheists?
DAWKINS: Well, I think there's a sort of historic misunderstanding of what
atheism is.
For some reason, people have been brought up to believe that atheists have
two horns and a tail. I mean, there are figures that show that atheists are
the most mistrusted group in America, which is pretty astonishing,
considering, as I say, the innocuousness of what they actually are. They are
just people who hold a different belief system.
ZAHN: Certainly, you have encountered people, though, who are intimidated by
your message, that, in some way, it puts perhaps their own faith in doubt?
DAWKINS: Well, why would anybody be intimidated by mere words?
I mean, neither I, nor any other atheist that I know, ever threatens
violence. We never threaten to fly planes into skyscrapers. We never
threaten suicide bombs. We're very gentle people. All we do is use words to
talk about things like the cosmos, the origin of the universe, evolution,
the origin of life. What's there to be frightened of in just an opinion?
ZAHN: Final question: How would you characterize the overarching public
reaction to atheism?
DAWKINS: Misunderstanding, and really missing an awful lot of what's
valuable, because, if you're an atheist, you know, you believe this is the
only life you're going to get. It's a precious life. It's a beautiful life.
It's something that we should live to the full, to the end of our days,
whereas, if you're religious, and you believe that there's another life,
somehow, that means you don't live this life to the full, because you think
you're going to get another one.
That's an awfully negative way to live a life. Being an atheist frees you up
to live this life properly, happily, and fully.
ZAHN: Richard Dawkins, we really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so
much for joining us.
DAWKINS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Some eye-opening opinions and allegations.
Next, our panel weighs in on what can be done about religious intolerance
and discrimination against atheists.
And later on: a secret world revealed -- a onetime NBA player comes out of
the closet. Just wait until you hear what he has to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back.
We're talking about discrimination against atheists and how the fear of
becoming outcasts keeps many atheists underground.
Let's turn to our "Out in the Open" panel. Atheist Ellen Johnson is here
with us, the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson, and radio talk show host Rachel
Maddow.
So, let me turn to you, first of all, Ellen.
Do atheists bring this on themselves by going to Supreme Court with
campaigns like trying to take the words "under God" out of the pledge,
trying to take the words "In God we trust" off of the currency?
JOHNSON: By being good citizens.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: You're 1 to 3 percent of the population.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Why are you so noisy?
JOHNSON: By trying to uphold the Constitution of the United States. I think
that's being a good citizen. And I think that we should be applauded for it.
However, most atheists are in the closet, unfortunately. You haven't seen
that this is just the tip of the iceberg. And, when atheists start coming
out more and more, then, we will see more problems.
But what the problem really is and what it stems from is that religion is
losing out in America, and the religious know it. There's empty pew
syndrome. There's a lot of competition among religions. And there's just
modern life. People are not going to church like they should.
So, the churches have to go to where the people are. They're going -- the
military is under siege. The prisons are under siege. The workplaces are
under siege. And the public schools are under siege. And the religious are
getting very angry, and they're fighting back.
And, when they see an atheist who tries to uphold the Constitution and
challenge them when they break the law, then there are all kinds of
problems.
And, mind you, they also go after religious people. In Pontotoc,
Mississippi, when a Christian woman said that organized prayers in that
school, the public school systems there, were wrong, and she challenged it,
they went after her with a vengeance.
ROBERTS: Right.
JOHNSON: Bishop John Shelby Spong received 15 death threats because of his
liberal views.
So, it's not just atheists.
ROBERTS: Well, let me go to Reverend Peterson.
You're losing out? Is that -- is that...
(CROSSTALK)
PETERSON: No.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: ... you're discriminating against these people?
PETERSON: Atheists are hypocrites.
What they're trying to do, too, is impose their godless lifestyle upon
Americans, and especially upon Christians. This great country was built on
the idea of God, family, and Constitution. And they want to change that.
Now, if they want to be atheist, it's OK to do that, but just go and do it,
and don't try to change America, remove God out of the lives of everybody.
ROBERTS: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
PETERSON: And Christians are just fighting back.
And, real fast, we saw the same thing with the radical homosexual movement.
They decided to come out of the closet. And what they did was, they imposed
their lifestyle upon Americans. Now they have redefined the family and all
that.
ROBERTS: She was with you for a second, and now you have...
MADDOW: No. No. No.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: And now you have lost her.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Let just me read an...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Let me read an e-mail that we got here. This is obviously from an
atheist, who talks about this idea of -- of who has rights to do that.
He writes -- quote -- "You ask atheists not to impose on your rights to have
prayer in school and to have God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Atheists ask
you not to impose on their rights to have prayer taken out of school and to
have God taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance. On what basis do you assume
that your rights should be taken as precedence over an atheist's?"
Well, obviously, Christians are in the overwhelming majority...
PETERSON: That's right.
ROBERTS: ... when it comes to Christians vs. atheists.
But does the Constitution, Rachel, not only give you freedom of religious,
but freedom from religion?
MADDOW: The Constitution gives you freedom from religion and creates a
government that is explicitly nonreligious. So, we could say it's...
ROBERTS: So, there should be equal rights, yes?
MADDOW: Yes. No. Well, you -- I mean, you can say that America is a
Christian nation, in the sense that America is...
PETERSON: It is.
MADDOW: ... a Christian majority nation. You're right.
But we have a secular government. And the way we protect religion in this
country, and the way we have become such a religious country is by
protecting religion, by keeping it utterly separate from the public sphere
and from government. And, so, there's...
(CROSSTALK)
PETERSON: But that's not -- that's not the American way, though.
MADDOW: Yes, it is.
(CROSSTALK)
MADDOW: Let me just finish my thought, Reverend.
PETERSON: We have Christianity in the public schools first...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: We're running out of time, so make it quick.
MADDOW: There's not equality among religions under the American government.
PETERSON: That's not true.
MADDOW: There is freedom from religion. Freedom from religion is what we
have.
ROBERTS: OK. Let me ask this question.
There is a common perception among Christians, or at least a common case
that Christians sometimes make, that atheists, because they do not believe
in God, are morally compromised.
Are you morally compromised?
JOHNSON: No. That's just bigotry.
They know who atheists are. I have to respectfully disagree with Mr.
Dawkins, Professor Dawkins. The theists know very well who -- what -- who we
are, and they're not misunder-interpreting us or misunderstanding us.
You know, that's just bigotry. And, in order to make religious feel --
religious people feel better, they have to say lies about...
PETERSON: Then, where do you get your morals from? Christians get their
morals from God, from the -- from the Bible, from God. Where do you get
yours from?
JOHNSON: It's not about where we get our ethics from.
PETERSON: Where do you get them from? It's a question.
JOHNSON: That's not the...
PETERSON: Answer the question. Where do you get them from?
JOHNSON: But the idea that we don't have ethics is not -- no one sees that.
We're not the ones that are, you know, abusing children. Professionally
religious people aren't any more ethic -- ethical...
PETERSON: Are you saying Christians are abusing children?
ROBERTS: I have got to call a timeout here, folks. We're not done yet,
because there's a lot more to talk about. Wait until you see the case that
we have got coming up.
Also, one of the biggest secrets in sports out in the open tonight. Up next,
the first NBA player in history to publicly declare that he's gay.
Later on, here's what I was talking about. Can you believe this was the
title of a newspaper column? "Rape Only Hurts If You Fight It." We're not
kidding. That was published.
We'll find out what the man who wrote it was thinking, coming up.
.
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Dawkins, Ellen Johnson on CNN Paula Zahn Show |
14 Feb 2007 01:26:14 PM |
|
|
In article <gNednY1ix6A0ok7YnZ2dnUVZ_sGqnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
From the PA Godless Digest and CNN:
Transcript: Dawkins, Ellen Johnson on CNN Paula Zahn show
Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:37 am (PST)
Paula Zahn Now
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0702/12/pzn.01.html
I watched that one too. Dawkins was great, as usual. I wish that Ellen
Johnson had been a little more forceful though. She seemed to be letting
Peterson getting away with a lot.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
