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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "DaveJr"
Date: 07 Jan 2006 01:19:22 AM
Object: Dawkins on I.D. lengthy but good
Edge: ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG by Richard Dawkins & Jerry Coyne
The seductive "let's teach the controversy" language still conveys the
false, and highly pernicious, idea that there really are two sides.
This
would distract students from the genuinely important and interesting
controversies that enliven evolutionary discourse. Worse, it would
hand
creationism the only victory it realistically aspires to. Without
needing
to make a single good point in any argument, it would have won the
right
for a form of supernaturalism to be recognised as an authentic part of
science. And that would be the end of science education in America.
ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG [9.1.05]
by Richard Dawkins & Jerry Coyne
RICHARD DAWKINS is Charles Simonyi professor of the public
understanding
of science at Oxford University. His latest book is The Ancestor's
Tale: A
Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Life.
JERRY COYNE is a professor in the department of ecology and evolution
at
the University of Chicago, and the author (with H. Allen Orr) of
Speciation.
ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG
(RICHARD DAWKINS & JERRY COYNE:) It sounds so reasonable, doesn't it?
Such
a modest proposal. Why not teach "both sides" and let the children
decide
for themselves? As President Bush said, "You're asking me whether or
not
people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes." At
first hearing, everything about the phrase "both sides" warms the
hearts
of educators like ourselves.
One of us spent years as an Oxford tutor and it was his habit to
choose
controversial topics for the students' weekly essays. They were
required
to go to the library, read about both sides of an argument, give a
fair
account of both, and then come to a balanced judgment in their essay.
The
call for balance, by the way, was always tempered by the maxim, "When
two
opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth
does
not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one
side
simply to be wrong."
As teachers, both of us have found that asking our students to analyse
controversies is of enormous value to their education. What is wrong,
then, with teaching both sides of the alleged controversy between
evolution and creationism or "intelligent design" (ID)? And, by the
way,
don't be fooled by the disingenuous euphemism. There is nothing new
about
ID. It is simply creationism camouflaged with a new name to slip (with
some success, thanks to loads of tax-free money and slick
public-relations
professionals) under the radar of the US Constitution's mandate for
separation between church and state.
Why, then, would two lifelong educators and passionate advocates of
the
"both sides" style of teaching join with essentially all biologists in
making an exception of the alleged controversy between creation and
evolution? What is wrong with the apparently sweet reasonableness of
"it
is only fair to teach both sides"? The answer is simple. This is not a
scientific controversy at all. And it is a time-wasting distraction
because evolutionary science, perhaps more than any other major
science,
is bountifully endowed with genuine controversy.
Among the controversies that students of evolution commonly face,
these
are genuinely challenging and of great educational value: neutralism
versus selectionism in molecular evolution; adaptationism; group
selection; punctuated equilibrium; cladism; "evo-devo"; the "Cambrian
Explosion"; mass extinctions; interspecies competition; sympatric
speciation; sexual selection; the evolution of sex itself;
evolutionary
psychology; Darwinian medicine and so on. The point is that all these
controversies, and many more, provide fodder for fascinating and
lively
argument, not just in essays but for student discussions late at
night.
Intelligent design is not an argument of the same character as these
controversies. It is not a scientific argument at all, but a religious
one. It might be worth discussing in a class on the history of ideas,
in a
philosophy class on popular logical fallacies, or in a comparative
religion class on origin myths from around the world. But it no more
belongs in a biology class than alchemy belongs in a chemistry class,
phlogiston in a physics class or the stork theory in a sex education
class. In those cases, the demand for equal time for "both theories"
would
be ludicrous. Similarly, in a class on 20th-century European history,
who
would demand equal time for the theory that the Holocaust never
happened?
So, why are we so sure that intelligent design is not a real
scientific
theory, worthy of "both sides" treatment? Isn't that just our personal
opinion? It is an opinion shared by the vast majority of professional
biologists, but of course science does not proceed by majority vote
among
scientists. Why isn't creationism (or its incarnation as intelligent
design) just another scientific controversy, as worthy of scientific
debate as the dozen essay topics we listed above? Here's why.
If ID really were a scientific theory, positive evidence for it,
gathered
through research, would fill peer-reviewed scientific journals. This
doesn't happen. It isn't that editors refuse to publish ID research.
There
simply isn't any ID research to publish. Its advocates bypass normal
scientific due process by appealing directly to the non-scientific
public
and - with great shrewdness - to the government officials they elect.
The argument the ID advocates put, such as it is, is always of the
same
character. Never do they offer positive evidence in favour of
intelligent
design. All we ever get is a list of alleged deficiencies in
evolution. We
are told of "gaps" in the fossil record. Or organs are stated, by fiat
and
without supporting evidence, to be "irreducibly complex": too complex
to
have evolved by natural selection.
In all cases there is a hidden (actually they scarcely even bother to
hide
it) "default" assumption that if Theory A has some difficulty in
explaining Phenomenon X, we must automatically prefer Theory B without
even asking whether Theory B (creationism in this case) is any better
at
explaining it. Note how unbalanced this is, and how it gives the lie
to
the apparent reasonableness of "let's teach both sides". One side is
required to produce evidence, every step of the way. The other side is
never required to produce one iota of evidence, but is deemed to have
won
automatically, the moment the first side encounters a difficulty - the
sort of difficulty that all sciences encounter every day, and go to
work
to solve, with relish.
What, after all, is a gap in the fossil record? It is simply the
absence
of a fossil which would otherwise have documented a particular
evolutionary transition. The gap means that we lack a complete
cinematic
record of every step in the evolutionary process. But how incredibly
presumptuous to demand a complete record, given that only a minuscule
proportion of deaths result in a fossil anyway.
The equivalent evidential demand of creationism would be a complete
cinematic record of God's behaviour on the day that he went to work
on,
say, the mammalian ear bones or the bacterial flagellum - the small,
hair-like organ that propels mobile bacteria. Not even the most ardent
advocate of intelligent design claims that any such divine videotape
will
ever become available.
Biologists, on the other hand, can confidently claim the equivalent
"cinematic" sequence of fossils for a very large number of
evolutionary
transitions. Not all, but very many, including our own descent from
the
bipedal ape Australopithecus. And - far more telling - not a single
authentic fossil has ever been found in the "wrong" place in the
evolutionary sequence. Such an anachronistic fossil, if one were ever
unearthed, would blow evolution out of the water.
As the great biologist J B S Haldane growled, when asked what might
disprove evolution: "Fossil rabbits in the pre-Cambrian." Evolution,
like
all good theories, makes itself vulnerable to disproof. Needless to
say,
it has always come through with flying colours.
Similarly, the claim that something - say the bacterial flagellum - is
too
complex to have evolved by natural selection is alleged, by a
lamentably
common but false syllogism, to support the "rival" intelligent design
theory by default. This kind of default reasoning leaves completely
open
the possibility that, if the bacterial flagellum is too complex to
have
evolved, it might also be too complex to have been created. And
indeed, a
moment's thought shows that any God capable of creating a bacterial
flagellum (to say nothing of a universe) would have to be a far more
complex, and therefore statistically improbable, entity than the
bacterial
flagellum (or universe) itself - even more in need of an explanation
than
the object he is alleged to have created.
If complex organisms demand an explanation, so does a complex
designer.
And it's no solution to raise the theologian's plea that God (or the
Intelligent Designer) is simply immune to the normal demands of
scientific
explanation. To do so would be to shoot yourself in the foot. You
cannot
have it both ways. Either ID belongs in the science classroom, in
which
case it must submit to the discipline required of a scientific
hypothesis.
Or it does not, in which case get it out of the science classroom and
send
it back into the church, where it belongs.
In fact, the bacterial flagellum is certainly not too complex to have
evolved, nor is any other living structure that has ever been
carefully
studied. Biologists have located plausible series of intermediates,
using
ingredients to be found elsewhere in living systems. But even if some
particular case were found for which biologists could offer no ready
explanation, the important point is that the "default" logic of the
creationists remains thoroughly rotten.
There is no evidence in favour of intelligent design: only alleged
gaps in
the completeness of the evolutionary account, coupled with the
"default"
fallacy we have identified. And, while it is inevitably true that
there
are incompletenesses in evolutionary science, the positive evidence
for
the fact of evolution is truly massive, made up of hundreds of
thousands
of mutually corroborating observations. These come from areas such as
geology, paleontology, comparative anatomy, physiology, biochemistry,
ethology, biogeography, embryology and - increasingly nowadays -
molecular
genetics.
The weight of the evidence has become so heavy that opposition to the
fact
of evolution is laughable to all who are acquainted with even a
fraction
of the published data. Evolution is a fact: as much a fact as plate
tectonics or the heliocentric solar system.
Why, finally, does it matter whether these issues are discussed in
science
classes? There is a case for saying that it doesn't - that biologists
shouldn't get so hot under the collar. Perhaps we should just accept
the
popular demand that we teach ID as well as evolution in science
classes.
It would, after all, take only about 10 minutes to exhaust the case
for
ID, then we could get back to teaching real science and genuine
controversy.
Tempting as this is, a serious worry remains. The seductive "let's
teach
the controversy" language still conveys the false, and highly
pernicious,
idea that there really are two sides. This would distract students
from
the genuinely important and interesting controversies that enliven
evolutionary discourse. Worse, it would hand creationism the only
victory
it realistically aspires to. Without needing to make a single good
point
in any argument, it would have won the right for a form of
supernaturalism
to be recognised as an authentic part of science. And that would be
the
end of science education in America.
Arguments worth having ...
The "Cambrian Explosion"
Although the fossil record shows that the first multicellular animals
lived about 640m years ago, the diversity of species was low until
about
530m years ago. At that time there was a sudden explosion of many
diverse
marine species, including the first appearance of molluscs,
arthropods,
echinoderms and vertebrates. "Sudden" here is used in the geological
sense; the "explosion" occurred over a period of 10m to 30m years,
which
is, after all, comparable to the time taken to evolve most of the
great
radiations of mammals. This rapid diversification raises fascinating
questions; explanations include the evolution of organisms with hard
parts
(which aid fossilisation), the evolutionary "discovery" of eyes, and
the
development of new genes that allowed parts of organisms to evolve
independently.
The evolutionary basis of human behaviour
The field of evolutionary psychology (once called "sociobiology")
maintains that many universal traits of human behaviour (especially
sexual
behaviour), as well as differences between individuals and between
ethnic
groups, have a genetic basis. These traits and differences are said to
have evolved in our ancestors via natural selection. There is much
controversy about these claims, largely because it is hard to
reconstruct
the evolutionary forces that acted on our ancestors, and it is
unethical
to do genetic experiments on modern humans.
Sexual versus natural selection
Although evolutionists agree that adaptations invariably result from
natural selection, there are many traits, such as the elaborate
plumage of
male birds and size differences between the sexes in many species,
that
are better explained by "sexual selection": selection based on members
of
one sex (usually females) preferring to mate with members of the other
sex
that show certain desirable traits. Evolutionists debate how many
features
of animals have resulted from sexual as opposed to natural selection;
some, like Darwin himself, feel that many physical features
differentiating human "races" resulted from sexual selection.
The target of natural selection
Evolutionists agree that natural selection usually acts on genes in
organisms - individuals carrying genes that give them a reproductive
or
survival advantage over others will leave more descendants, gradually
changing the genetic composition of a species. This is called
"individual
selection". But some evolutionists have proposed that selection can
act at
higher levels as well: on populations (group selection), or even on
species themselves (species selection). The relative importance of
individual versus these higher order forms of selection is a topic of
lively debate.
Natural selection versus genetic drift
Natural selection is a process that leads to the replacement of one
gene
by another in a predictable way. But there is also a "random" evolutio
nary
process called genetic drift, which is the genetic equivalent of
coin-tossing. Genetic drift leads to unpredictable changes in the
frequencies of genes that don't make much difference to the adaptation
of
their carriers, and can cause evolution by changing the genetic
composition of populations. Many features of DNA are said to have
evolved
by genetic drift. Evolutionary geneticists disagree about the
importance
of selection versus drift in explaining features of organisms and
their
DNA. All evolutionists agree that genetic drift can't explain adaptive
evolution. But not all evolution is adaptive.
.

User: "DaveJr"

Title: Re: Dawkins on I.D. lengthy but good 07 Jan 2006 02:52:51 PM
Sorry for the poor formatting folks
"DaveJr" <davesbrain@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:20Kvf.112$M_5.10916@news.uswest.net...

Edge: ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG by Richard Dawkins & Jerry Coyne

The seductive "let's teach the controversy" language still

conveys the

false, and highly pernicious, idea that there really are two

sides.

This
would distract students from the genuinely important and

interesting

controversies that enliven evolutionary discourse. Worse, it

would

hand
creationism the only victory it realistically aspires to.

Without

needing
to make a single good point in any argument, it would have won

the

right
for a form of supernaturalism to be recognised as an authentic

part of

science. And that would be the end of science education in

America.

ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG [9.1.05]
by Richard Dawkins & Jerry Coyne

RICHARD DAWKINS is Charles Simonyi professor of the public
understanding
of science at Oxford University. His latest book is The

Ancestor's

Tale: A
Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Life.

JERRY COYNE is a professor in the department of ecology and

evolution

at
the University of Chicago, and the author (with H. Allen Orr)

of

Speciation.

ONE SIDE CAN BE WRONG
(RICHARD DAWKINS & JERRY COYNE:) It sounds so reasonable,

doesn't it?

Such
a modest proposal. Why not teach "both sides" and let the

children

decide
for themselves? As President Bush said, "You're asking me

whether or

not
people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is

yes." At

first hearing, everything about the phrase "both sides" warms

the

hearts
of educators like ourselves.
One of us spent years as an Oxford tutor and it was his habit

to

choose
controversial topics for the students' weekly essays. They

were

required
to go to the library, read about both sides of an argument,

give a

fair
account of both, and then come to a balanced judgment in their

essay.

The
call for balance, by the way, was always tempered by the

maxim, "When

two
opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity,

the truth

does
not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible

for one

side
simply to be wrong."
As teachers, both of us have found that asking our students to

analyse

controversies is of enormous value to their education. What is

wrong,

then, with teaching both sides of the alleged controversy

between

evolution and creationism or "intelligent design" (ID)? And,

by the

way,
don't be fooled by the disingenuous euphemism. There is

nothing new

about
ID. It is simply creationism camouflaged with a new name to

slip (with

some success, thanks to loads of tax-free money and slick
public-relations
professionals) under the radar of the US Constitution's

mandate for

separation between church and state.
Why, then, would two lifelong educators and passionate

advocates of

the
"both sides" style of teaching join with essentially all

biologists in

making an exception of the alleged controversy between

creation and

evolution? What is wrong with the apparently sweet

reasonableness of

"it
is only fair to teach both sides"? The answer is simple. This

is not a

scientific controversy at all. And it is a time-wasting

distraction

because evolutionary science, perhaps more than any other

major

science,
is bountifully endowed with genuine controversy.
Among the controversies that students of evolution commonly

face,

these
are genuinely challenging and of great educational value:

neutralism

versus selectionism in molecular evolution; adaptationism;

group

selection; punctuated equilibrium; cladism; "evo-devo"; the

"Cambrian

Explosion"; mass extinctions; interspecies competition;

sympatric

speciation; sexual selection; the evolution of sex itself;
evolutionary
psychology; Darwinian medicine and so on. The point is that

all these

controversies, and many more, provide fodder for fascinating

and

lively
argument, not just in essays but for student discussions late

at

night.
Intelligent design is not an argument of the same character as

these

controversies. It is not a scientific argument at all, but a

religious

one. It might be worth discussing in a class on the history of

ideas,

in a
philosophy class on popular logical fallacies, or in a

comparative

religion class on origin myths from around the world. But it

no more

belongs in a biology class than alchemy belongs in a chemistry

class,

phlogiston in a physics class or the stork theory in a sex

education

class. In those cases, the demand for equal time for "both

theories"

would
be ludicrous. Similarly, in a class on 20th-century European

history,

who
would demand equal time for the theory that the Holocaust

never

happened?
So, why are we so sure that intelligent design is not a real
scientific
theory, worthy of "both sides" treatment? Isn't that just our

personal

opinion? It is an opinion shared by the vast majority of

professional

biologists, but of course science does not proceed by majority

vote

among
scientists. Why isn't creationism (or its incarnation as

intelligent

design) just another scientific controversy, as worthy of

scientific

debate as the dozen essay topics we listed above? Here's why.
If ID really were a scientific theory, positive evidence for

it,

gathered
through research, would fill peer-reviewed scientific

journals. This

doesn't happen. It isn't that editors refuse to publish ID

research.

There
simply isn't any ID research to publish. Its advocates bypass

normal

scientific due process by appealing directly to the

non-scientific

public
and - with great shrewdness - to the government officials they

elect.

The argument the ID advocates put, such as it is, is always of

the

same
character. Never do they offer positive evidence in favour of
intelligent
design. All we ever get is a list of alleged deficiencies in
evolution. We
are told of "gaps" in the fossil record. Or organs are stated,

by fiat

and
without supporting evidence, to be "irreducibly complex": too

complex

to
have evolved by natural selection.
In all cases there is a hidden (actually they scarcely even

bother to

hide
it) "default" assumption that if Theory A has some difficulty

in

explaining Phenomenon X, we must automatically prefer Theory B

without

even asking whether Theory B (creationism in this case) is any

better

at
explaining it. Note how unbalanced this is, and how it gives

the lie

to
the apparent reasonableness of "let's teach both sides". One

side is

required to produce evidence, every step of the way. The other

side is

never required to produce one iota of evidence, but is deemed

to have

won
automatically, the moment the first side encounters a

difficulty - the

sort of difficulty that all sciences encounter every day, and

go to

work
to solve, with relish.
What, after all, is a gap in the fossil record? It is simply

the

absence
of a fossil which would otherwise have documented a particular
evolutionary transition. The gap means that we lack a complete
cinematic
record of every step in the evolutionary process. But how

incredibly

presumptuous to demand a complete record, given that only a

minuscule

proportion of deaths result in a fossil anyway.
The equivalent evidential demand of creationism would be a

complete

cinematic record of God's behaviour on the day that he went to

work

on,
say, the mammalian ear bones or the bacterial flagellum - the

small,

hair-like organ that propels mobile bacteria. Not even the

most ardent

advocate of intelligent design claims that any such divine

videotape

will
ever become available.
Biologists, on the other hand, can confidently claim the

equivalent

"cinematic" sequence of fossils for a very large number of
evolutionary
transitions. Not all, but very many, including our own descent

from

the
bipedal ape Australopithecus. And - far more telling - not a

single

authentic fossil has ever been found in the "wrong" place in

the

evolutionary sequence. Such an anachronistic fossil, if one

were ever

unearthed, would blow evolution out of the water.
As the great biologist J B S Haldane growled, when asked what

might

disprove evolution: "Fossil rabbits in the pre-Cambrian."

Evolution,

like
all good theories, makes itself vulnerable to disproof.

Needless to

say,
it has always come through with flying colours.
Similarly, the claim that something - say the bacterial

flagellum - is

too
complex to have evolved by natural selection is alleged, by a
lamentably
common but false syllogism, to support the "rival" intelligent

design

theory by default. This kind of default reasoning leaves

completely

open
the possibility that, if the bacterial flagellum is too

complex to

have
evolved, it might also be too complex to have been created.

And

indeed, a
moment's thought shows that any God capable of creating a

bacterial

flagellum (to say nothing of a universe) would have to be a

far more

complex, and therefore statistically improbable, entity than

the

bacterial
flagellum (or universe) itself - even more in need of an

explanation

than
the object he is alleged to have created.
If complex organisms demand an explanation, so does a complex
designer.
And it's no solution to raise the theologian's plea that God

(or the

Intelligent Designer) is simply immune to the normal demands

of

scientific
explanation. To do so would be to shoot yourself in the foot.

You

cannot
have it both ways. Either ID belongs in the science classroom,

in

which
case it must submit to the discipline required of a scientific
hypothesis.
Or it does not, in which case get it out of the science

classroom and

send
it back into the church, where it belongs.
In fact, the bacterial flagellum is certainly not too complex

to have

evolved, nor is any other living structure that has ever been
carefully
studied. Biologists have located plausible series of

intermediates,

using
ingredients to be found elsewhere in living systems. But even

if some

particular case were found for which biologists could offer no

ready

explanation, the important point is that the "default" logic

of the

creationists remains thoroughly rotten.
There is no evidence in favour of intelligent design: only

alleged

gaps in
the completeness of the evolutionary account, coupled with the
"default"
fallacy we have identified. And, while it is inevitably true

that

there
are incompletenesses in evolutionary science, the positive

evidence

for
the fact of evolution is truly massive, made up of hundreds of
thousands
of mutually corroborating observations. These come from areas

such as

geology, paleontology, comparative anatomy, physiology,

biochemistry,

ethology, biogeography, embryology and - increasingly

nowadays -

molecular
genetics.
The weight of the evidence has become so heavy that opposition

to the

fact
of evolution is laughable to all who are acquainted with even

a

fraction
of the published data. Evolution is a fact: as much a fact as

plate

tectonics or the heliocentric solar system.
Why, finally, does it matter whether these issues are

discussed in

science
classes? There is a case for saying that it doesn't - that

biologists

shouldn't get so hot under the collar. Perhaps we should just

accept

the
popular demand that we teach ID as well as evolution in

science

classes.
It would, after all, take only about 10 minutes to exhaust the

case

for
ID, then we could get back to teaching real science and

genuine

controversy.
Tempting as this is, a serious worry remains. The seductive

"let's

teach
the controversy" language still conveys the false, and highly
pernicious,
idea that there really are two sides. This would distract

students

from
the genuinely important and interesting controversies that

enliven

evolutionary discourse. Worse, it would hand creationism the

only

victory
it realistically aspires to. Without needing to make a single

good

point
in any argument, it would have won the right for a form of
supernaturalism
to be recognised as an authentic part of science. And that

would be

the
end of science education in America.
Arguments worth having ...
The "Cambrian Explosion"
Although the fossil record shows that the first multicellular

animals

lived about 640m years ago, the diversity of species was low

until

about
530m years ago. At that time there was a sudden explosion of

many

diverse
marine species, including the first appearance of molluscs,
arthropods,
echinoderms and vertebrates. "Sudden" here is used in the

geological

sense; the "explosion" occurred over a period of 10m to 30m

years,

which
is, after all, comparable to the time taken to evolve most of

the

great
radiations of mammals. This rapid diversification raises

fascinating

questions; explanations include the evolution of organisms

with hard

parts
(which aid fossilisation), the evolutionary "discovery" of

eyes, and

the
development of new genes that allowed parts of organisms to

evolve

independently.
The evolutionary basis of human behaviour
The field of evolutionary psychology (once called

"sociobiology")

maintains that many universal traits of human behaviour

(especially

sexual
behaviour), as well as differences between individuals and

between

ethnic
groups, have a genetic basis. These traits and differences are

said to

have evolved in our ancestors via natural selection. There is

much

controversy about these claims, largely because it is hard to
reconstruct
the evolutionary forces that acted on our ancestors, and it is
unethical
to do genetic experiments on modern humans.
Sexual versus natural selection
Although evolutionists agree that adaptations invariably

result from

natural selection, there are many traits, such as the

elaborate

plumage of
male birds and size differences between the sexes in many

species,

that
are better explained by "sexual selection": selection based on

members

of
one sex (usually females) preferring to mate with members of

the other

sex
that show certain desirable traits. Evolutionists debate how

many

features
of animals have resulted from sexual as opposed to natural

selection;

some, like Darwin himself, feel that many physical features
differentiating human "races" resulted from sexual selection.
The target of natural selection
Evolutionists agree that natural selection usually acts on

genes in

organisms - individuals carrying genes that give them a

reproductive

or
survival advantage over others will leave more descendants,

gradually

changing the genetic composition of a species. This is called
"individual
selection". But some evolutionists have proposed that

selection can

act at
higher levels as well: on populations (group selection), or

even on

species themselves (species selection). The relative

importance of

individual versus these higher order forms of selection is a

topic of

lively debate.
Natural selection versus genetic drift
Natural selection is a process that leads to the replacement

of one

gene
by another in a predictable way. But there is also a "random"

evolutio

nary
process called genetic drift, which is the genetic equivalent

of

coin-tossing. Genetic drift leads to unpredictable changes in

the

frequencies of genes that don't make much difference to the

adaptation

of
their carriers, and can cause evolution by changing the

genetic

composition of populations. Many features of DNA are said to

have

evolved
by genetic drift. Evolutionary geneticists disagree about the
importance
of selection versus drift in explaining features of organisms

and

their
DNA. All evolutionists agree that genetic drift can't explain

adaptive

evolution. But not all evolution is adaptive.


.
User: ""

Title: Re: Dawkins on I.D. lengthy but good 07 Jan 2006 06:22:04 PM
DaveJr wrote:

Sorry for the poor formatting folks

Good formating is here:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dawkins_coyne05/dawkins_coyne05_index.html
or here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,,1559743,00.html
(Let's watch this wrap...)
j.m.
#1491
.
User: "DaveJr"

Title: Re: Dawkins on I.D. lengthy but good 07 Jan 2006 07:04:56 PM
<j.m.1491@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42b49dF1h8b3gU3@individual.net...

DaveJr wrote:

Sorry for the poor formatting folks


Good formating is here:


http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dawkins_coyne05/dawkins_coyne05_index.
html


or here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,,1559743,00.html

(Let's watch this wrap...)

j.m.
#1491

Hey, thank you for the follow up links. :) It should be read if
there are any lingering atheists who haven't already.
.




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