| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Granny" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2004 07:24:11 PM |
| Object: |
Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
When she couldn't answer me, she got mad and called ma a nutjob. Do
you think I am a nutjob, Dear Granny?
Sincerely,
Not A Nutjob In Norwich
Dear Not A Nutjob In Norwich:
Nutjob, indeed! You sound pretty normal to me, atually pretty bright
for a ninth grader. But then you attend a Catholic school, so you do
have a great advantage here. Public school kids are rather slow as you
know.
I believe your bratty neighbor girl got mad because she didn't want to
admit that she doesn't know where her notions of right and wrong come
from. And if you asked her parents, they'd probably mumble something
goofy about ethics and such. If this girl comes back at you with the
ethics dodge, ask her, "Whose ethics?" Ask her where those came from.
And then ask again where those in turn came from.
You see, dear girl, we all have our own little Gods, now don't we?
Even bratty little neighbors who claim not to have any.
Sincerely,
Dear Granny
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 11:28:54 AM |
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"Granny" <WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com...
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Same as the person who gets them from the bible: personal preference.
One person decides to follow the morals in a badly written book.
The other person decides to follow whatever morals appear to work.
Both come down to a personal decision independant of the morals chosen.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Carmela" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 06:12:15 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<7oednWGutJzk-7fdRVn-gQ@io.com>...
"Granny" <WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com...
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Same as the person who gets them from the bible: personal preference.
One person decides to follow the morals in a badly written book.
The other person decides to follow whatever morals appear to work.
Both come down to a personal decision independant of the morals chosen.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Quite right, Denis, but the big difference we're seeing today is that
secularists are pulling this same brand of horsepuckey right out of
their assholes as well and telling the rest of us that their now
sitting on the right hand of God. Two sides of the same coin, my
friend. And they're now beginning to legislate their own ideas of
morality into the law just as fast and furious as any bible-thumping
baptists ever did in the past.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 11:28:59 PM |
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"Carmela" <CrazyCarmela@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in message
news:c8d5e5a3.0402111612.3fb969ed@posting.google.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:<7oednWGutJzk-7fdRVn-gQ@io.com>...
"Granny" <WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com...
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Same as the person who gets them from the bible: personal preference.
One person decides to follow the morals in a badly written book.
The other person decides to follow whatever morals appear to work.
Both come down to a personal decision independant of the morals chosen.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Quite right, Denis, (snip non-sequiter political diatribe.)
Excellent, I'm glad you agree with me.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 06:36:49 PM |
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On 11 Feb 2004 16:12:15 -0800,
(Carmela) in news message
<c8d5e5a3.0402111612.3fb969ed@posting.google.com> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<7oednWGutJzk-7fdRVn-gQ@io.com>...
"Granny" <WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com...
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Same as the person who gets them from the bible: personal preference.
One person decides to follow the morals in a badly written book.
The other person decides to follow whatever morals appear to work.
Both come down to a personal decision independant of the morals chosen.
Quite right, Denis, but the big difference we're seeing today is that
secularists are pulling this same brand of horsepuckey right out of
their assholes as well and telling the rest of us that their now
sitting on the right hand of God. Two sides of the same coin, my
friend. And they're now beginning to legislate their own ideas of
morality into the law just as fast and furious as any bible-thumping
baptists ever did in the past.
Granny, you changed your name. So should we call you Carmela or
Granny? Which do you prefer?
Liz #658 BAAWA
4th Law: Most people cannot imagine a god morally superior
to themselves; if you want to know what such a person would
do if they had ultimate power, ask them about their deity.
-- Abner Mintz
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
10 Feb 2004 10:15:38 PM |
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(Granny) wrote in
news:2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com:
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Yeah, the bible. That's a good source of morality. Where 42 children
get killed by bears for teasing an old bald man. Where people are told
to stone a man to death for picking up firewood on the sabbath. Where
all the men, women & children of an enemy tribe are killed, except the
young virgins who are kept for a bit of fun. Where people are told to
hate their families in order to be disciples of this god. Where slavery,
beatings, murder of witches, misogynogy, is rampant. etc.... Yeah, that
sounds like a wonderful source of morality.
(snip remainder of *****)
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Alton" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 06:55:06 PM |
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(Granny) wrote in message news:<2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com>...
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
Dear Granny:
There's this dumbfuck ninth grader who lives next door to me. She and
her family profess to be Catholics and they're truly the asspains of
the neighborhood, always spouting off about their beliefs - it's
chEEEzus this and chEEEzus that, but they never want to hear what
anyone else has to say on the matter.
The other day for the umpteenth time she tried to preach her *****
to me, and I told her first off, religion isn't necessary to act
morally and second off, the next time her Daddy's hand "accidentally"
slid down to my ***** after her patted my head and said "chEEEzus loves
you", my Daddy was gonna cut his balls off and feed them to our dog.
Her Daddy runs inside now when he sees me or any of my family.
She then said "If you don't get your notions of what's right and wrong
from the bible, then where do you get them from" and arrogantly asked
if I don't believe in the Bible who my authority is for what good and
evil or right and wrong is. She also said her Daddy rubs her behind
all the time and she didn't see what was so wrong with it.
I started to explain to her that because of the nature of man, it was
in everyone's best interest to live and act responsibly in voluntary
cooperation with others and to respect the rights of others, while
maintaining a rational definition of what "rights" are which my Daddy
says "doesn't include free cheese for a buncha damn little bastards
whose fathers are nowhere to be found and a roof over your head that
somebody else is forced to pay for". I told her that otherwise we
would all end up living like the niggers in Liberia, Compton and other
world shitholes where they apparently haven't figured any of this out
yet and that most of the problems in THIS country stem from those who
ignore or haven't figured it out yet. That insisting on living one's
life guided and justified by irrational mysticism is why the Jooz in
Israel and others are constantly having to murder thy neighbors, that
basically religion does nothing but ***** people's heads up and that
its continued existence is a blight upon mankind.
Then I asked her to define what "God" is. She said that God is
unknowable by man. I asked her so how the ***** does she know God
exists? She said her Mommy and Daddy and her preacher told her. Then I
asked her if that didn't seem a little fucked up to her, if these
people are insisting that she believe when noone can tell her exactly
WHAT it is she's supposedly supposed to believe in. She got a funny
look on her face.
I asked her if she can't trust her own mind and senses and has to
depend on some baggyfaced, pencil-necked, Bible toting geek who's
dedicated his life to never getting laid and who hangs around with a
bunch of pre-pubescent boys and a bunch of weird ladies who dress like
penguins and have dedicated their lives to never getting laid to tell
her what to believe in, then doesn't that leave her wide open to any
***** from any "authority" who claims to have knowledge of
something that's utterly inaccessible to her? That didn't it seem to
her that all the adults in her life were telling her to shut off her
brain with no better justification than because that's what generation
after generation of their ancestors have been telling their children
to do? But somewhere in the middle of all this she started staring
off into space, then she ran off crying and mumbling "chEEEzus luvs
meee" over and over. I don't think she really heard much of what I
said.
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 05:17:39 AM |
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On 10 Feb 2004 17:24:11 -0800 in alt.atheism
WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com (Granny) wrote:
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person.
That is absolutely true.
It is also true that being able to answer complex philosophical
questions is not necessary to be able to be a good person.
I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?"
Of course, the quaestio can be answered. It has been posted on
alt.atheism so many times that I cannot be bothered to type it
out.
I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
No authority is needed, I have total authority over my own being.
Even in the unlikely case that something like your god exists,
that that god must have made me in this way - so to challenge
someone's authority to be a good person still does not make
sense.
When she couldn't answer me, she got mad and called ma a nutjob. Do
you think I am a nutjob, Dear Granny?
Sincerely,
Not A Nutjob In Norwich
Dear Not A Nutjob In Norwich:
Nutjob, indeed! You sound pretty normal to me, atually pretty bright
for a ninth grader. But then you attend a Catholic school, so you do
have a great advantage here. Public school kids are rather slow as you
know.
I attended a Catholic school and was told that people who did not
believe in God could not be good people.
That was a lie.
I believe your bratty neighbor girl got mad because she didn't want to
admit that she doesn't know where her notions of right and wrong come
from. And if you asked her parents, they'd probably mumble something
goofy about ethics and such. If this girl comes back at you with the
ethics dodge, ask her, "Whose ethics?" Ask her where those came from.
And then ask again where those in turn came from.
Where did you get your belief in God from?
How did it get into your brain?
And where did you get the idea that it is more important to
believe in God than to treat people in a good way?
-
Martin Thomas
Official "Teddy Bear" Atheist
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 06:33:10 PM |
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On 10 Feb 2004 17:24:11 -0800,
WonkedOutWanda@linkedto.cypherprivacy.com (Granny) in news message
<2dcc6dff.0402101724.2d4843dd@posting.google.com> wrote:
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
When she couldn't answer me, she got mad and called ma a nutjob. Do
you think I am a nutjob, Dear Granny?
Sincerely,
Not A Nutjob In Norwich
Dear Not A Nutjob In Norwich:
It was wrong of your neighbor to call you a nutjob. In turn, you are
wrong in calling your neighbor "bratty". Name-calling rarely leads to
mutual understanding, nor does demanding that someone answer your
hostile questions lead to a rational discussion.
You, as a Catholic, use the Bible as a moral standard, and you judge
your neighbor to be wrong for not using the same standard. Yet, your
own Bible tells you in Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will
be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged,
and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
You seem to have chosen to ignore this part of the Bible opening up
yourself to be judged by others. If you claim that you follow the
Bible's moral standard, then you can not opt to disregard some of the
Bible's main precepts for good behavior merely because they are
inconvenient for you.
Everyone, you included as we've seen, decides what ethical values they
choose to follow, and society as a whole through its laws and its
attendant rewards and punishments for good and bad behavior molds the
ethical character of a community. In the United States as a society,
we have decided that some of the values promoted by the Bible are no
longer valid. For example, we no longer execute people for doing work
on a Sunday, nor do we still stone a woman to death for having a child
out of wedlock. (1) If you wish to follow all of the Biblical
instructions such as those above, you will definitely be out of step
with the current mores of the United States. We, as a society, have
chosen that these Biblical moral principals no longer apply, and we
have instituted other standards that do not come from the Bible. You,
as well as your neighbor, think of these current standards as the norm
even though they aren't written in any Holy® book. These standard
come from "we the people" and not from an supernatural deity.
So before you get into another argument about the Bible being the only
source of morals, it would be nice for you to remember Luke 6:37, "Do
not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will
not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." and Mark 12:31,
"The second [greatest commandment] is this: 'Love your neighbor as
yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Auntie Liz
(1) For those societies, who follow Sharia law, a code that strictly
follows the Koran, the holy book of the Muslims, several woman have
recently been sentenced to death for this reason.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Dear Granny's Column (Bratty Atheist Neighbor Girl) |
11 Feb 2004 09:38:35 AM |
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On Tue 10 Feb 2004 07:24:11p,
(Granny) kicked back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke
up, lit up a joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting
out:
Dear Granny:
I am in the ninth grade and attend a Catholic school. A bratty little
neighbor girl told me that religion isn't necessary for someone to act
morally and be a good person. I then asked her, "If you don't get your
notions of what's right and wrong from the bible, then where do you
get them from?" I then asked her who *her* authority was for what good
and evil or right and wrong is.
When she couldn't answer me, she got mad and called ma a nutjob. Do
you think I am a nutjob, Dear Granny?
Sincerely,
Not A Nutjob In Norwich
Dear Not A Nutjob In Norwich:
Nutjob, indeed! You sound pretty normal to me, atually pretty bright
for a ninth grader. But then you attend a Catholic school, so you do
have a great advantage here. Public school kids are rather slow as you
know.
I believe your bratty neighbor girl got mad because she didn't want to
admit that she doesn't know where her notions of right and wrong come
from. And if you asked her parents, they'd probably mumble something
goofy about ethics and such. If this girl comes back at you with the
ethics dodge, ask her, "Whose ethics?" Ask her where those came from.
And then ask again where those in turn came from.
You see, dear girl, we all have our own little Gods, now don't we?
Even bratty little neighbors who claim not to have any.
Wow, Granny. You are very wise. That bratty little ***** next door had
better learn to follow the One(TM) True(TM) Gawd(TM) and shape her
behavior according to the Buybull(TM). Then she'll learn how wonderful
and Godly it is to, for example, stone sweet little Not a Nutjob to
death when wonderful, pious, precious little Not a Nutjob sasses her
mommy.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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