| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"tweeglitch" |
| Date: |
25 Jan 2004 08:26:10 AM |
| Object: |
Death |
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
--
tweeglitch
at
breakbeat
dot
com
(edvard_k a.a 177)
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| User: "Walking on Glass" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 09:46:05 AM |
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And it came to pass that (tweeglitch) did
write in alt.atheism, news:f707c9af.0401250626.30b2e72d@posting.google.com:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead.
The philosopher Anthony Grayling sums it up nicely, imo:
"Those who fear death perform an impossible feat: they imagine themselves
witnessing their own non-existence, and lamenting it."
--
Walking on Glass (remove NOSPAM to email me)
AA #2053 Zymurgist #12
"If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or
you can inoculate...Try science"
Carl Sagan - "The Demon-Haunted World"
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| User: "tweeglitch" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 04:49:05 PM |
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Walking on Glass <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message news:<Xns947BA06763818walkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157>...
And it came to pass that (tweeglitch) did
write in alt.atheism, news:f707c9af.0401250626.30b2e72d@posting.google.com:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead.
The philosopher Anthony Grayling sums it up nicely, imo:
"Those who fear death perform an impossible feat: they imagine themselves
witnessing their own non-existence, and lamenting it."
Thank you Walking for bringing that quote to my attention, someone
was bound to have put it more succinctly and clearly than I (it's
one of the things philosophers are paid to do).
But knowing it's irrational to fear death doesn't seem to help.
You can know something but without personal firsthand experience
it doesn't sink in (e.g. there are millions of starving people in
the world).
Perhaps I should take up transcendental meditation. I need to
embrace and be one with the nothingness to get closer to death.
Smoking cigarettes probably helps here. If it wasn't for that I
wouldn't have brought the subject up.
If more people could fully come to terms with the fact of their
own extinction there'd be less demand for religion, and the fewer
religionists the fewer reasons for people to kill each other. It
would certainly cut down on the number of martyrdom incidents.
Millions of people live short miserable lives only to be stubbed
out, I must do something about world hunger before lung cancer
gets me.
--
tweeglitch
at
breakbeat
dot
com
(edvard_k a.a 177)
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| User: "Walking on Glass" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
31 Jan 2004 05:00:01 AM |
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And it came to pass that (tweeglitch)
did write in alt.atheism,
news:f707c9af.0401251449.25012125@posting.google.com:
Walking on Glass <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns947BA06763818walkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157>...
And it came to pass that (tweeglitch)
did write in alt.atheism,
news:f707c9af.0401250626.30b2e72d@posting.google.com:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one
hand it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on
the other it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because
there'll be no me to understand the experience of being dead.
The philosopher Anthony Grayling sums it up nicely, imo:
"Those who fear death perform an impossible feat: they imagine
themselves witnessing their own non-existence, and lamenting it."
Thank you Walking for bringing that quote to my attention, someone
was bound to have put it more succinctly and clearly than I (it's
one of the things philosophers are paid to do).
But knowing it's irrational to fear death doesn't seem to help.
Give it some time and you'll probably find it makes more sense.
You can know something but without personal firsthand experience
it doesn't sink in (e.g. there are millions of starving people in
the world).
Perhaps I should take up transcendental meditation. I need to
embrace and be one with the nothingness to get closer to death.
Smoking cigarettes probably helps here. If it wasn't for that I
wouldn't have brought the subject up.
If you think it might help. Personally, I'd say that time is the best
thing here. Eventually you'll come to accept death without an afterlife
as normal.
If more people could fully come to terms with the fact of their
own extinction there'd be less demand for religion, and the fewer
religionists the fewer reasons for people to kill each other. It
would certainly cut down on the number of martyrdom incidents.
Yep.
Millions of people live short miserable lives only to be stubbed
out, I must do something about world hunger before lung cancer
gets me.
A noble aim. Good luck!
--
Walking on Glass (remove NOSPAM to email me)
AA #2053 Zymurgist #12
"If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or
you can inoculate...Try science"
Carl Sagan - "The Demon-Haunted World"
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| User: "ima pseudonym" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 02:58:20 PM |
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In article <f707c9af.0401250626.30b2e72d@posting.google.com>,
for_harvesters_only@hotmail.com [tweeglitch] wrote...
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead.
I don't really see why completely ceasing to exist after we
are dead should bother us any more than our not existing long
before we were born.
I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt).
Right.
But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
True, immortality or indefinite lifespans of thousands of years would
be neat, but so would have been seeing the world of dinosaurs hundreds
of millions of years ago. Neither option is currently open to us, so
we might as well make the most of the sadly limited time spans that we
are able to experience.
ip
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 03:00:44 PM |
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On 25 Jan 2004 06:26:10 -0800,
(tweeglitch) posted in alt.atheism:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
Imagine sleeping with no dreaming. Now imagine that going on forever.
Would you - at that time - find the situation incomprehensible? Would
you "comprehend" anything at all?
Or think of the time before you were born. Is that incomprehensible?
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 04:38:26 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of self,
no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of anything -
just endless lonely wandering.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 05:27:00 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
duke wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be
dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of
almighty God.
Be sure to explain to Him why you were such a gutless coward in this
life, mocking your fellow man for your own failings.
Making weapons, my *****!
- --
Enkidu
AA 2165
http://www.mylinuxisp.com/~raymond/alt.atheism/who.php?w=enkidu.jpg
hhe1mxo02@sneakemail.com
PGP KeyID 0xC5FEABDF
- -----
Of all things, good sense is the most fairly distributed: everyone
thinks he is so well supplied with it that even those who are the
hardest to satisfy in every other respect never desire more of it
than
they already have.
René Descartes, Discours de la Méthode. 1637.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 07:16:57 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:27:00 -0800, "Enkidu"
<hhe1mxo02@sneakemail.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Making weapons, my *****!
Earl kept the Viet Cong from invading the US. He did a pretty good
job, too. Did you ever hear of a Viet Cong invasion?
--
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
Christ."
- Mohandas Gandhi
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Lee Dimas" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 05:39:34 PM |
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In article <75h8109cthdhve2uc817toqo33e0tnntn0@4ax.com>,
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty
God.
I have heard all about the "love" this almighty god practices. Even if
he existed it would still be nicer not to have to spend any time with
him.
Lee Dimas
aa#11101111001
Surely you can figure out my address.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Death |
27 Jan 2004 12:30:28 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:38:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
ejaculated:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
Since when does "nicer" have *****-all to do with reality?
We already know that one of the root perpetuators of god-belief is
death-fear. We really don't need you to demonstrate for the 10^10
time here on alt.atheism.
--
"Resurrection is for those who didn't get it right the first time."
- Otep, "Sacrilege"
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
27 Jan 2004 09:33:41 PM |
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:30:28 -0500, Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:38:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
ejaculated:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
Since when does "nicer" have *****-all to do with reality?
Since the first religious leader thought up the scam.
--
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Death |
29 Jan 2004 10:41:10 AM |
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:33:41 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
ejaculated:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:30:28 -0500, Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:38:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
ejaculated:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
Since when does "nicer" have *****-all to do with reality?
Since the first religious leader thought up the scam.
Of course, I forgot that reality is optional. Thanks for t reminder.
--
"Resurrection is for those who didn't get it right the first time."
- Otep, "Sacrilege"
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 07:15:49 PM |
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:38:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> posted
in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
Or to stay alive and healthy forever. But neither one is reality.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of self,
no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of anything -
just endless lonely wandering.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
The *ONLY* difference between death for an atheist and death for a
Christian is that the Christian gets a half second to realize that
there's no life after death. Then you become the same worm food we
do. We get that half second to not notice anything unusual. It'll
suck to be you when you die, Earl. Which isn't all that far in the
future.
--
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "tweeglitch" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 04:09:16 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<75h8109cthdhve2uc817toqo33e0tnntn0@4ax.com>...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of self,
no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of anything -
just endless lonely wandering.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
Being dead there'll be no me to enjoy it.
The continuance of everything that makes you a you: personality, memory,
intelligence, emotions, and conscious awareness are dependent on a
physical working brain. This is evidenced firstly by brain scanning
technologies showing activity in areas of the brain each is dependent on
and further evidenced by the fact that when those areas of the brain are
damaged by disease, head injury, or drug abuse then so are the functions
that are dependent on them. When you die your brain turns to mush and
then dust, neither of which is a physical working brain. When your brain
is dead then so are you. There is no objective repeatable evidence to the
contrary and this is not for lack of trying, especially by the
parapsychology crowd. To believe something in the absence of evidence and
in the face of evidence to the contrary is the very definition of
delusional. You yourself can carry out a simple test to confirm that
consciousness is dependent on a working brain; simply hit yourself
repeatedly over the head with a hammer. Eventually the truth will sink in
to the most thick skulled of theists. Though in your case, having quickly
perused your previous posts, I fear there may be nothing else there other
than bone.
--
tweeglitch
at
breakbeat
dot
com
(edvard_k a.a 177)
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
27 Jan 2004 04:26:03 AM |
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On 26 Jan 2004 02:09:16 -0800 in alt.atheism, tweeglitch
(for_harvesters_only@hotmail.com (tweeglitch)) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<75h8109cthdhve2uc817toqo33e0tnntn0@4ax.com>...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty God.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of self,
no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of anything -
just endless lonely wandering.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
Being dead there'll be no me to enjoy it.
And you know the worst thing about that? You'll not be able to say
"told you so" to the believers in the after-life.
That *really* pisses me off.
[snip]
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Kevin Anthoney" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 04:55:49 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:00:44 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of
almighty God.
One snag: There is no almighty God.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of
self, no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of
anything - just endless lonely wandering.
Give it up. Nobody's listening to your crap.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
I doubt it. I'll be dead.
--
Kevin Anthoney
kanthoney[a]dsl.pipex.com
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 04:51:27 PM |
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duke32 wrote:
Dying can be difficult - death is so simple even a plant can be dead.
But it's so much nicer to spend all eternity is the loving arms of almighty
God.
The ultimate future of the atheist - plant food, or worst still, eternal
wanderings without love, for God is all love - no love of God, no love of
self,
no love of family, no love of friend, no love of self, no love of anything -
just endless lonely wandering.
It's your funeral. Enjoy it if you can.
Got any evidence?
*********************************************
"Why Does That Pickle You?" Zoe from Sluggy Freelance
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 03:33:38 PM |
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On 25 Jan 2004 06:26:10 -0800,
(tweeglitch) wrote:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
Death doesn't bother me at all. You're born, you live, you die, you
become worm food. I'm not particularly looking forward to not
existing, but the thought doesn't bother me or scare me in any way.
It's simply a part of the continuum of life.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 05:17:00 PM |
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On 25 Jan 2004 06:26:10 -0800,
(tweeglitch) wrote:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
You have been dead once, so you know what it feels like.
Before you were conceived.
It's like that. I know.
I have been dead more often than once.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 09:17:07 PM |
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:47:00 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
You have been dead once, so you know what it feels like.
Before you were conceived.
It's like that. I know.
I have been dead more often than once.
I never looked at it that way, but it's true.
--
"We should do unto others as we would want them to do unto us. If I were an unborn
fetus I would want others to use force to protect me, therefore using force against
abortionists is *justifiable homocide*."
- "Pro-Life" doctor killer and corpse Paul Hill
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "tweeglitch" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 02:40:20 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<ik1910d24kn9qndq153hcpckvo1q1np1uj@Pern.rk>...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:47:00 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
You have been dead once, so you know what it feels like.
Before you were conceived.
It's like that. I know.
I have been dead more often than once.
I never looked at it that way, but it's true.
'You' may have died more times than you think. The person you were say
thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
(cue Beatles 'Within You And With Out You')
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
--
tweeglitch
at
breakbeat
dot
com
(edvard_k a.a 177)
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 03:07:21 AM |
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On 26 Jan 2004 00:40:20 -0800,
(tweeglitch) wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<ik1910d24kn9qndq153hcpckvo1q1np1uj@Pern.rk>...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:47:00 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
You have been dead once, so you know what it feels like.
Before you were conceived.
It's like that. I know.
I have been dead more often than once.
I never looked at it that way, but it's true.
'You' may have died more times than you think. The person you were say
thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
(cue Beatles 'Within You And With Out You')
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
Three different propositions here:
'You' may have died more times than you think.
I take this as a sideways implication that reincarnation is actual
phenomenon.
The person you were say thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
Self evident. Even from a reductionist's molecular viewpoint.
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
Quite likely.
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| User: "tweeglitch" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 08:20:36 AM |
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Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message news:<eul9109f7e2sdag6rmtcol5gfob1aj670m@4ax.com>...
On 26 Jan 2004 00:40:20 -0800,
(tweeglitch) wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<ik1910d24kn9qndq153hcpckvo1q1np1uj@Pern.rk>...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:47:00 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> posted in alt.atheism:
You have been dead once, so you know what it feels like.
Before you were conceived.
It's like that. I know.
I have been dead more often than once.
I never looked at it that way, but it's true.
'You' may have died more times than you think. The person you were say
thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
(cue Beatles 'Within You And With Out You')
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
Three different propositions here:
'You' may have died more times than you think.
I take this as a sideways implication that reincarnation is actual
phenomenon.
No. Reincarnation is bollocks. The person you were 30 years ago may be
completely different to the person you are now. That is, the person
you were is dead.
The person you were say thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
Self evident. Even from a reductionist's molecular viewpoint.
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
Quite likely.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 10:05:25 PM |
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On 26 Jan 2004 06:20:36 -0800,
(tweeglitch) posted in alt.atheism:
No. Reincarnation is bollocks. The person you were 30 years ago may be
completely different to the person you are now. That is, the person
you were is dead.
Oh, there's no question about that. But we (Michael and I) were
talking about actual physical death.
--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "pan" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
26 Jan 2004 08:38:45 PM |
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On 26 Jan 2004 06:20:36 -0800,
(tweeglitch) wrote:
(snip)
No. Reincarnation is bollocks. The person you were 30 years ago may be
completely different to the person you are now.
That is, the person you were is dead.
Except,
I have this nagging present sense of my life's 'continuation' ,
together with memories: that give me the very real sense that I'm
the same 'Self' I was 30 years ago.
I like the Buddhist's description of 'real things', as being like
whirlpools.
e.g. I find a whirlpool at a particular spot in a river. This
whirlpool seems to be in the same place day after day.
I now know this whirlpool as a particular entity; even though I know
that the water it's composed of is always changing. And I know that
its pattern (or shape) may never *entirely* be the same.
But its pattern is familiar enough that I recognize it as:
that particular whirlpool.
When we recognize something, perhaps all we're recognizing is a
'familiar' pattern.
pan
The person you were say thirty years ago may be completely different to the person you are now.
Self evident. Even from a reductionist's molecular viewpoint.
Perhaps the Buddhists are right and the self is an illusion.
Quite likely.
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Death |
27 Jan 2004 12:33:31 PM |
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:38:45 -0800, pan <pan@psnwREMOVE.com>
ejaculated:
When we recognize something, perhaps all we're recognizing is a
'familiar' pattern.
Exactly. The sense of self has more to do with a familiar
organization of matter and behavior than some metaphysical whatzits
hanging out inside one's head.
Also, I think the self evolves slowly enough (in most instances) that
the slight incremental changes that transformed me at 5 into me at 29
aren't noticed. However, I am a completely different person now than
I was then...even with the illusion of self.
--
"Resurrection is for those who didn't get it right the first time."
- Otep, "Sacrilege"
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
28 Jan 2004 11:26:17 PM |
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On 25 Jan 2004 06:26:10 -0800,
(tweeglitch), Message ID:
<f707c9af.0401250626.30b2e72d@posting.google.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing?
Yes, I think so. I've been in the process of dying as well as almost
died a few times.
On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead.
True. Its 'lights out,' 'game over.'
I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
Not to be a smartass, but you'd best hurry.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 09:28:34 AM |
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tweeglitch wrote:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the
other it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll
be no me to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and
the code I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will
be the same as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt).
But none of that completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all
to be deprived of me and me of us all before I've even finished
getting started.
Go rent "Life of Brian". Listen carefully to the closing song.
--
Enkidu
AA 2165
http://www.mylinuxisp.com/~raymond/alt.atheism/who.php?w=enkidu.jpg
hhe1mxo02@sneakemail.com
PGP KeyID 0xC5FEABDF
-----
Of all things, good sense is the most fairly distributed: everyone
thinks he is so well supplied with it that even those who are the
hardest to satisfy in every other respect never desire more of it than
they already have.
René Descartes, Discours de la Méthode. 1637.
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: Death |
25 Jan 2004 12:48:46 PM |
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tweeglitch wrote:
Has anyone here fully come to terms with this death thing? On one hand
it's fairly straight forward (oblivion, the end of me) but on the other
it seems completely incomprehensible, perhaps because there'll be no me
to understand the experience of being dead. I have kids and the code
I've written might last longer than my DNA and yeah, it will be the same
as it was before there was a me (and that didn't hurt). But none of that
completely helps, it seems such a shame for us all to be deprived of me
and me of us all before I've even finished getting started.
--
tweeglitch
at
breakbeat
dot
com
(edvard_k a.a 177)
I have. As far as the part about "there'll be no me to understand the
experience of being dead." That's the whole point: death is the end of
our individual existence. Nothing that comes after matters. We won't
be around to contemplate anything. We are only temporary and a very
fleeting temporary at that. The time scale of a lifetime is vanishingly
small. Perhaps that is a good thing. The human ego gets large enough
in the short time it is around, just imagine what it would be if it were
allowed to fester even longer.
--
It seems odd that those who scoff at sun worshippers are apt to worship
a vacuum.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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