Religions > Atheism > Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot !
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Born Again Sam" |
| Date: |
29 Mar 2005 08:42:34 AM |
| Object: |
Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
March 29, 2005
Colorado Court Bars Execution Because Jurors Consulted Bible
By KIRK JOHNSON
DENVER, March 28 - In a sharply divided ruling, Colorado's highest court on
Monday upheld a lower court's decision throwing out the sentence of a man
who was given the death penalty after jurors consulted the Bible in reaching
a verdict. The Bible, the court said, constituted an improper outside
influence and a reliance on what the court called a "higher authority."
"The judicial system works very hard to emphasize the rarified, solemn and
sequestered nature of jury deliberations," the majority said in a 3-to-2
decision by a panel of the Colorado Supreme Court. "Jurors must deliberate
in that atmosphere without the aid or distraction of extraneous texts."
The ruling involved the conviction of Robert Harlan, who was found guilty in
1995 of raping and murdering a cocktail waitress near Denver. After Mr.
Harlan's conviction, the judge in the case - as Colorado law requires - sent
the jury off to deliberate about the death penalty with an instruction to
think beyond the narrow confines of the law. Each juror, the judge told the
panel, must make an "individual moral assessment," in deciding whether Mr.
Harlan should live.
The jurors voted unanimously for death. The State Supreme Court's decision
changes that sentence to life in prison without parole.
In the decision on Monday, the dissenting judges said the majority had
confused the internal codes of right and wrong that juries are expected to
possess in such weighty moral matters with the outside influences that are
always to be avoided, like newspaper articles or television programs about
the case. The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look for
facts or alternative legal interpretations, but for wisdom.
"The biblical passages the jurors discussed constituted either a part of the
jurors' moral and religious precepts or their general knowledge, and thus
were relevant to their court-sanctioned moral assessment," the minority
wrote.
Legal experts said that Colorado was unusual in its language requiring
jurors in capital felony cases to explicitly consult a moral compass. Most
states that have restored the death penalty weave in a discussion of moral
factors, lawyers said, along with the burden that jurors must decide whether
aggravating factors outweigh mitigating factors in voting on execution.
"In Colorado it's a more distinct instruction," said Bob Grant, who was the
prosecutor in the Harlan case. Mr. Grant said no decision had been made yet
on whether to appeal to the United States Supreme Court.
Legal scholars say the connection between hard legal logic and the softer,
deeper world of values is always present in jury rooms, whether acknowledged
or not.
"The court says we're asking you to be moral men and women, to make a moral
judgment of the right thing to do," said Thane Rosenbaum, a professor of law
at Fordham University School of Law in New York City, and author of the book
"The Myth of Moral Justice: Why Our Legal System Fails to Do What's Right"
(HarperCollins, 2004). "But then we say the juror cheated because he brought
in a book that forms the basis of his moral universe," Professor Rosenbaum
said. "The thing is, he would have done it anyway, in his head."
Other legal experts say the Colorado decision touches on an issue that
courts do not like to talk about: that jurors, under traditions dating to
the days of English common law, can consider higher authority all they want,
and can convict or acquit using whatever internal thoughts and discussions
they consider appropriate.
In this instance, lawyers said, there was simply a clearer trail of
evidence, with admissions by the jurors during Mr. Harlan's appeal that
Bibles had been used in their discussion. One juror testified she studied
Romans and Leviticus, including Leviticus 24, which includes the famous
articulation of Old Testament justice: "eye for eye, tooth for tooth."
Professor Howard J. Vogel, who teaches ethics at Hamline University School
of Law in St. Paul and has a master's degree in theology as well as a law
degree, said, "I don't think it's a religious text that's the problem here,
but rather whether something is being used that trumps the law of the
state."
The Bible is hardly monolithic about what constitutes justice. Some legal
experts say the jurors might just as easily have found guidance that led
them to vote to spare Mr. Harlan's life. Lawyers for Mr. Harlan also
specifically urged the jurors to consider biblical wisdom, according to the
Supreme Court's decision, with a request that they find mercy in their
hearts "as God ultimately took mercy on Abraham."
The lawyers also made several references to Mr. Harlan's soul and his habit
of reading the Bible with his father, the court said.
Kathleen Lord, a lawyer for Mr. Harlan, did not return repeated calls.
Mr. Harlan was convicted of kidnapping a waitress, Rhonda Maloney, and
raping her. She escaped and flagged down a motorist, Jaquie Creazzo. Mr.
Harlan caught up with the two women, shot Ms. Creazzo, leaving her
paralyzed, then beat and killed Ms. Maloney.
--
"I will never apologise for the United States.
I don't care what the facts are."
-- George H W Bush after the US shot
down a civilian airliner over Iran killing all
290 innocent passengers.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
29 Mar 2005 09:53:44 PM |
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In article <3asip2F6cbarrU1@individual.net>, says...
The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look for
facts or alternative legal interpretations, but for wisdom.
Well that was pretty stupid, considering that there is no wisdom in
the bible.
--
"Faith, indeed, has up to the present not been
able to move real mountains ... But it can put
mountains where there are none." -- Nietzsche
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| User: "Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
29 Mar 2005 10:54:50 PM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:44 -0700, quibbler wrote:
In article <3asip2F6cbarrU1@individual.net>, says...
The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look for facts or
alternative legal interpretations, but for wisdom.
Well that was pretty stupid, considering that there is no wisdom in the
bible.
What about on page 758?
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
30 Mar 2005 04:07:39 AM |
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In article <3au4lqF6f49j8U1@individual.net>,
Heretic <cathars@montaillou.com.fr> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:44 -0700, quibbler wrote:
In article <3asip2F6cbarrU1@individual.net>, says...
The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look for facts or
alternative legal interpretations, but for wisdom.
Well that was pretty stupid, considering that there is no wisdom in the
bible.
What about on page 758?
Of which version?
Since there are so many versions, each with its own pagination, why not
give the citation itself, instead of just an ambiguous page number.
Unless there is no wisdom on your version's page 758!
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| User: "Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
30 Mar 2005 08:28:58 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:07:39 -0700, Virgil wrote:
In article <3au4lqF6f49j8U1@individual.net>,
Heretic <cathars@montaillou.com.fr> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:44 -0700, quibbler wrote:
In article <3asip2F6cbarrU1@individual.net>, says...
The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look for facts
or alternative legal interpretations, but for wisdom.
Well that was pretty stupid, considering that there is no wisdom in
the bible.
What about on page 758?
Of which version?
Since there are so many versions, each with its own pagination, why not
give the citation itself, instead of just an ambiguous page number.
Unless there is no wisdom on your version's page 758!
My version. Here, look where I'm pointing. Are you blind?
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
31 Mar 2005 06:00:41 AM |
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Heretic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:07:39 -0700, Virgil wrote:
In article <3au4lqF6f49j8U1@individual.net>,
Heretic <cathars@montaillou.com.fr> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:44 -0700, quibbler wrote:
In article <3asip2F6cbarrU1@individual.net>,
says...
The jurors consulted Bibles, the minority said, not to look
for facts or alternative legal interpretations, but for
wisdom.
Well that was pretty stupid, considering that there is no
wisdom in the bible.
What about on page 758?
Of which version?
Since there are so many versions, each with its own pagination, why
not give the citation itself, instead of just an ambiguous page
number.
Unless there is no wisdom on your version's page 758!
My version. Here, look where I'm pointing. Are you blind?
"Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may
eat their own dung, and drink their own ***** with you?" -- 2 Kings, 18:27
God's way of saying -- Eat *****!
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| User: "RHR" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
29 Mar 2005 01:10:59 PM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:42:34 -0700, "Born Again Sam" <eta@carinae.org>
wrote:
"The judicial system works very hard to emphasize the rarified, solemn and
sequestered nature of jury deliberations," the majority said in a 3-to-2
decision by a panel of the Colorado Supreme Court. "Jurors must deliberate
in that atmosphere without the aid or distraction of extraneous texts."
Sounds like very weird reasoning to me. I can see a conviction being
thrown out because, somehow, it is learned that jurors assumed "facts"
they read in the newspapers that weren't offered as evidence in court.
Does this mean that jurors are not even allowed, in their
deliberations, to quote some book, they had previously read, in making
a moral judgment about a penalty? Can judges?
RHR
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
01 Apr 2005 01:01:47 AM |
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RHR <RHR@nospammy.com> wrote in
news:26ki41dkem516safg69sfuug3kfsdivln3@4ax.com:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:42:34 -0700, "Born Again Sam" <eta@carinae.org>
wrote:
"The judicial system works very hard to emphasize the rarified, solemn
and sequestered nature of jury deliberations," the majority said in a
3-to-2 decision by a panel of the Colorado Supreme Court. "Jurors must
deliberate in that atmosphere without the aid or distraction of
extraneous texts."
Sounds like very weird reasoning to me. I can see a conviction being
thrown out because, somehow, it is learned that jurors assumed "facts"
they read in the newspapers that weren't offered as evidence in court.
Does this mean that jurors are not even allowed, in their
deliberations, to quote some book, they had previously read, in making
a moral judgment about a penalty? Can judges?
RHR
So the guy raped and murdered one woman and paralyzed another. For some
reason the jurors need to consult the bible to decide their moral stance
on his acts? I think the jurors should be locked up just in case they
have a moral problem while holding a weapon or driving a car.
But wait, I spot the reason for their confusion. Towards the end, the
article points out the raping murderer reads the bible with his Pop.
Well now I see the problem - the christians couldn't decide whether it
was safe to have one of their own executed and needed to dip into the
book (of largely ignored) rules to see what some guy thought 1500 years
ago.
Got it.
gater.
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| User: "Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Death sentence overturned because of Bible quoting idiot ! |
29 Mar 2005 09:06:20 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:42:34 -0700, Born Again Sam wrote:
March 29, 2005
Colorado Court Bars Execution Because Jurors Consulted Bible By KIRK
JOHNSON
The death penalty is not available in Australia for any crime, so the
point of this post is somewhat blunted.
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