| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Joe" |
| Date: |
25 Nov 2003 02:39:51 PM |
| Object: |
Decision-making using logic not feelings |
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
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| User: "Scot McDermid" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
01 Dec 2003 03:20:11 PM |
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"Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote in message
news:3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews...
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
What is God, Joe?
If you mean a -personal God- (ie. God is like a person who answers
prayers. A "sky pixie" with which you can have a personal relationship.)
then there is absolutely no evidence of the existence of such a thing.
If you mean an -impersonal God- (ie the God of the pantheist:
An 'interpretation of the harmonies of the universe'. The sum total
of all the interworkings, physical laws, happenings, synchronicities
and coincidences in the universe) then the existence of that God is
undeniable. But you can't have a personal relationship with such a
God. You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
01 Dec 2003 10:31:28 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
--
"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. 'But what
shall we substitute in its place?' you say. What? A ferocious animal has sucked the
blood of my relatives. I tell you to rid yourselves of this beast and you ask me what
you shall put in its place?" - Voltaire
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Scot McDermid" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
02 Dec 2003 11:01:31 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
"Samadhi" is a state of mindlessness. Yogies work very hard at
achieving it. The similarities to being stoned is remarkable.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
02 Dec 2003 08:45:22 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:01:31 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
"Samadhi" is a state of mindlessness. Yogies work very hard at
achieving it. The similarities to being stoned is remarkable.
One can arrive at the same destination via many paths.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "ArWeGod" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
02 Dec 2003 05:06:59 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory based
on "information" you have absorbed?
If the later, go to Amsterdam and eat a nice "Space Cake". Then sit in the
tea room for an hour or two.
You will find your mind filled with more of your own *****, and we'll get
a break from your posts.
Win - Win!
-ArWeGod
.
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| User: "Scot McDermid" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
02 Dec 2003 11:18:59 AM |
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"ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nn_yb.63639$Z7.17564@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
"Samadhi" is also a state of mindlessness. Yogies work very
hard at achieving it.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory
based
on "information" you have absorbed?
If I answer that it is just a theory based on "information" then you will
tell
me that I have no personal experience. And if I answer that I have ingested
THC you will tell me that I'm nothing but a stoner.
But how about if I find an internet reference for you:
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/lsd_a.html
Quote from that site:
The classical disciples of religion, not necessarily
philosophers, have experienced fusion with the state. Apparently
in this state of "samadhi", body boundaries are lost, a state of
perpetual <"nirvana"> is achieved. The oneness of the universe,
the omnipotence of the Almighty are all felt by the yogi who thus
becomes a part of this vast uniqueness which has no beginning,
no middle part and no end. [...] it may be pointed out that the
effects of LSD have been claimed to depersonalize one and
supposedly make him realize (to diverse extents) what it is to
be a part of that immense unique vastness without a proper
materialistic three-dimensional concreteness. (pages 783-784)
If the later, go to Amsterdam and eat a nice "Space Cake". Then sit in the
tea room for an hour or two.
You will find your mind filled with more of your own *****, and we'll
get
a break from your posts.
The experience of "finding God" is repeatable, and intersubjectively
testable. Does that mean God exists?
Is God real, or just a state of mind(lessness)?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
02 Dec 2003 08:44:02 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:06:59 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory based
on "information" you have absorbed?
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
--
"If anyone comes to me, and does not hate his father, mother, wife, brothers, and sisters and even himself, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Scot McDermid" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
04 Dec 2003 01:04:28 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:06:59 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory
based
on "information" you have absorbed?
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Okay... so then you have experienced "God".
So do you think that there is something "God-ish" about the universe
that you can perceive or any "God-ishness" is just an illusion achieved
by entering into a particular state of mind(lessness)?
Of course, any perceivable "God-ishness" to the universe does not
necessarily entail the existence of a personal God who answers
prayers.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
04 Dec 2003 07:41:01 PM |
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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:04:28 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
Okay... so then you have experienced "God".
So do you think that there is something "God-ish" about the universe
that you can perceive or any "God-ishness" is just an illusion achieved
by entering into a particular state of mind(lessness)?
Of course, any perceivable "God-ishness" to the universe does not
necessarily entail the existence of a personal God who answers
prayers.
I didn't see any god when I was dead, so I think that precludes any
god of the type the Jews/Christians/Moslems claim.
--
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
06 Dec 2003 11:52:51 PM |
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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:04:28 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet>, Message ID:
<0zLzb.423873$Tr4.1198040@attbi_s03> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk...
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:06:59 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory
based
on "information" you have absorbed?
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Okay... so then you have experienced "God".
So do you think that there is something "God-ish" about the universe
that you can perceive or any "God-ishness" is just an illusion achieved
by entering into a particular state of mind(lessness)?
Of course, any perceivable "God-ishness" to the universe does not
necessarily entail the existence of a personal God who answers
prayers.
No such thing as a 'personal god who answers prayers.'
How arrogant it is to think that some universe spanning entity is going
to make a change in plan to suit something less than a plankton that
lives for less than a moment in time.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
07 Dec 2003 02:16:46 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 21:52:51 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
How arrogant it is to think that some universe spanning entity is going
to make a change in plan to suit something less than a plankton that
lives for less than a moment in time.
And Christians call atheists self-centered.
--
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
09 Dec 2003 09:11:23 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:16:46 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <0l27tvge4fu45fs4avi09ac067c5kb47lh@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 21:52:51 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
How arrogant it is to think that some universe spanning entity is going
to make a change in plan to suit something less than a plankton that
lives for less than a moment in time.
And Christians call atheists self-centered.
Indeed. Gotta love that christian projection.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
04 Dec 2003 09:51:45 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:44:02 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:06:59 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory based
on "information" you have absorbed?
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
No, that's just Woodstock. I must have been there myself, since I
definitely don't remember it :)
---
Mike atheism: a non-prophet
organization...
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way
when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their
shoes.
-------------------------------
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
03 Dec 2003 11:10:41 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:44:02 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:06:59 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
posted in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
Is this a fact you know through having ingested THC? Or just a theory based
on "information" you have absorbed?
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Young children are exempt from said saying.... :)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
04 Dec 2003 07:39:33 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:10:41 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:44:02 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Young children are exempt from said saying.... :)
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
--
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
Christ."
- Mohandas Gandhi
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
05 Dec 2003 04:14:23 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 01:39:33 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:10:41 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:44:02 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Young children are exempt from said saying.... :)
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
So THAT'S what happened to me!<laugh>
---
Mike atheism: a non-prophet
organization...
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way
when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their
shoes.
-------------------------------
.
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| User: "Courageous" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
05 Dec 2003 04:43:01 PM |
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Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
So THAT'S what happened to me!<laugh>
Yeah, with me, I figured it was the <pre-natal> LSD. :)
C//
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
06 Dec 2003 02:14:06 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:43:01 GMT, Courageous <nospam@nowhere.com>
wrote:
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
So THAT'S what happened to me!<laugh>
Yeah, with me, I figured it was the <pre-natal> LSD. :)
No, no, no! It was "too much LDS at Berkley."
---
Mike atheism: a non-prophet
organization...
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way
when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their
shoes.
-------------------------------
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
06 Dec 2003 11:50:08 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 01:39:33 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <gdovsvsilj6o8fvl6417o89cej23otsk2g@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:10:41 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 02:44:02 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <tdjqsvkup4b71o46ovpc777j9h945kne01@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
According to my birth certificate, I lived through the 60s. (Of
course anyone who claims to remember the 60s wasn't really there.)
Young children are exempt from said saying.... :)
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
/innocent look
But I never was in N.Y. state during the '60s......
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
07 Dec 2003 02:15:57 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 21:50:08 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 01:39:33 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <gdovsvsilj6o8fvl6417o89cej23otsk2g@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
/innocent look
But I never was in N.Y. state during the '60s......
Hashbury, anyone?
--
"A truly unselfish act would be a Christian volunteering to have his soul take your
soul's place in hell, so yours could go to Heaven. Don't hold your breath."
- John Popelish
&
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
09 Dec 2003 09:10:29 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:15:57 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <ei27tvcbm8thcndn2ud5sdkmm9k68i7jsg@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 21:50:08 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> posted in
alt.atheism:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 01:39:33 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <gdovsvsilj6o8fvl6417o89cej23otsk2g@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Children born in the 60s were stoned by osmosis. That wasn't smog
back then.
/innocent look
But I never was in N.Y. state during the '60s......
Hashbury, anyone?
LOL
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
03 Dec 2003 11:09:30 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:31:28 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>,
Message ID: <ec5osvgr6o4komt736si3chqjei0m2ivct@Pern.rk> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:20:11 GMT, "Scot McDermid"
<scotmc@SAVEcomTHEcast.SPAMnet> posted in alt.atheism:
You can "become one" with it through meditation, or
some really good marijuana. But does that God really exist,
or it is just a state of mind?
Being stoned isn't a state of mind, it's a state of mindless.
"Everybody must get stoned."-Moses..... :)))
{Bob Dylan}
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 06:03:55 PM |
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"Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote in news:3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Doesn't parse.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
Science has not debunked invisible flying pink elephants living on the
north pole of Mars, so it might be possible they exist.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
With what? Believing any old flim flam with no supporting evidence.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
So therefore you must accept to the possibility of Zeus, Thor, Isis,
Cthulu and thousands of others. I.e by your own (il)logic you must be a
polytheist.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
Yeah I'm a real mean person. I keep asking for evidence. You can call
that manipulating information if you like.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
No. I say there is no evidence for any gods (or invisible flying pink
elephants on Mars). I'll reconsider when you provide plausable evidence.
You are the result of three billion or more years of evolution. Your
ancestors have survived uncountable challenges over that time and only
recently have evolved a brain with the capability of reasoning. Don't
waste it, turn the reason switch to the ON position. You will feel a lot
better.
Regards Llanzlan.
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| User: "Blast Femur" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 10:13:53 PM |
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"Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote in news:3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
I will ignore any post by anyone who substitutes "are" for "our",
delegating their ignorance of proper English to a "fine christian
upbringing".
Idiot.
<ignored>
--
Blast Femur
______________
"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes
talking to people and guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"
-Paul Provenza
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 04:25:41 PM |
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In article <3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews>, "Joe" <blue@sky.com>
wrote:
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
I think you're off-base. Science is based on the idea that all parts of
nature are observable, testable, and repeatable. Science is based on the
idea that reason can discover what can be discovered.
"The supernatural" is, by definition, outside of the realm of science.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Blast Femur" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 10:15:18 PM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote in news:nemo0037-
742084.17251225112003@news02.east.earthlink.net:
"The supernatural" is, by definition, outside of the realm of science.
Thus outside of reality.
--
Blast Femur
______________
"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes
talking to people and guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"
-Paul Provenza
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
28 Nov 2003 10:01:39 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:15:18 GMT, Blast Femur <you@wish.com>, Message
ID: <Xns943ECE05751ACblastfemur@216.148.227.77> wrote in alt.atheism;
*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote in news:nemo0037-
742084.17251225112003@news02.east.earthlink.net:
"The supernatural" is, by definition, outside of the realm of science.
Thus outside of reality.
Theists have much trouble with reality.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Steve Mading" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 03:39:02 PM |
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In talk.atheism Joe <blue@sky.com> wrote:
: Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
: by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
: self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
: be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
: to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
: Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
: self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
You just described a set containing zero people.
: Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
: possible supernatural exists.
It HAS, on numerous occasions, done JUST that.
: You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Whatever the hell that means.
: Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
: Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
: therefore it is possible God exists.
There are an infinite number of theoretically possible things.
We don't go around spending any time believing in them until
there's reason to.
: You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Whatever the hell that means.
: Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
: An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
: much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
: there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
: time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
: suffering though.
Next time try that in English.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 06:06:27 PM |
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Joe <blue@sky.com> wrote:
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist.
Examining a theological problem that has vexed the finest minds in
history can be dismissed as "manipulation"?
I say that there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life.
That doesn't solve much. It seems you haven't troubled to learn what
those fine minds I mentioned above had to say about this matter. ;-)
That is not belittling suffering though.
Look, if you're going to use an argument, for Pete's sake take a moment
to understand what you're actually saying. Think about what the word
"belittle" means. You literally belittled the suffering by portraying
the time spent in suffering as small potatoes against the enormity of
eternity.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 04:48:40 PM |
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Joe wrote:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
True.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
True, at least for some gods.
Of course science has not debunked the possibility of the
existence of a race of giant intelligent rollerskating
parrots made entirely of custard.
Curiously, this is very rarely taken as a justification
for believing in them. It's almost as if there were some
horrendous double standard at work or something.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
Yes, actually that is exactly what you are doing.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
26 Nov 2003 10:11:09 AM |
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On 25 Nov 2003, "Joe" <blue@sky.com> screwed up his face, groaned,
pushed hard, and farted out the following message in news:3fc3bf14$0
$25040$afc38c87@vipnews:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
Let's see if I have this straight.
Atheists are irrational, because there is a proposition that doesn't
necessarily contradict what we know of reality, and we don't
unquestioningly accept that proposition as true?
Did you know that the existence of Santa Claus doesn't necessarily
contradict what we know of reality?
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 04:45:51 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:39:51 -0000, "Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
How ludicrous for a theist to encourage others to think logically.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
There is no reason to think there is a supernatural reality. There is
no evidence for such a reality. Conclusion: There is no
justification for basing one's entire life on such an empty concept.
snip of remaining inanity
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 03:18:47 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:39:51 -0000, "Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Some people imagine that the rest of the world revolves around their
religion, totally ignoring the fact that the rest of the world (a)
doesn't and (b) sees their religion in much the same light they
themselves see the other religions that are irrelevant to them.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
No self-defence.
Just zero reason to believe in any of the deities of any of the
religions, let alone yours.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
What "supernatural"? There is zero reason to consider it. No evidecne.
Nothing whatsoever to lead one to conclude it. Bsides which, as soon
as it is investigated it becomes natural.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
What "God"? There is zero reason to consider it. No evidence. Nothing
that could lead one to conclude it.
By your logic it is equally possible that the Great Arkleseizure
exists. Or Binky the 90 foot carrot.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
Frustrated sigh.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
28 Nov 2003 10:00:03 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:39:51 -0000, "Joe" <blue@sky.com>, Message ID:
<3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews> wrote in alt.atheism;
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
People like you, Joe. Emotions not logic.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Self-defense?
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
Not this drivel again. You borrowed 5000 UKPfrom me and are past the
date when you had promised me the funds would be repaid. The funds are
owed since you do not have a receipt from me indicating the debt was
paid. You, sir, are a liar and a thief.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Practice what you preach, Sport.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
It's not information you're manipulating, its *****.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
It has and so has the "Bible."
A coherant definition of the g-o-d letter string would be?
The objective supporting evidence for all your handwaving would be?
therefore it is possible God exists.
What is this g-o-d letter string you keep utilizing?
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
Can't stop repeating yourself? Folks here aren't superstitious so they
heard you the first time.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
Please, get an education. Your writing was very painful to read.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Martin Crisp" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 04:10:26 PM |
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 7:39:51 +1100, Joe wrote
(in message <3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews>):
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Well, I'm an atheist, but I have no idea what you mean by the rest
of that sentence.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
This really needs tightening up, it comes across as babble.
e.g. if information exists then of course I'm manipulating it,
/long/ before it gets anywhere near a level where I can consider
it using the tools of rational thought. [consider what
'information' actually reaches the eyes of a normally sighted and
normally encephalised human, then consider what they 'see' - the
'information' has been manipulated already.]
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
Definition & attributes of 'God' being?
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
Sorry, I have no idea what scope you have in mind when you say
'God'.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too much
suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that there is a
Nope, that would depend on the attributes of the 'God' in
question.
lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of time to get
over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
So life is a paper cut?
Would it be OK to keep my children on a
minimal-food-to-sustain-life diet for the next few years, provided
I feed them well for the rest of their lives?
And, does this 'infinity of time' to get over the suffering in
this life depend on any particular actions, or is it automatic?
If it is automatic, then why bother with this phase? If it is not
automatic, then isn't it a bit 'manipulative' to suggest that
suffering in this life will be repaid in the next, when it is
actually contingent on something else (and so suffering in this
life may not repaid)?
Have Fun
Martin
--
aa #1792
Almost always SMASHed
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| User: "Severian" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 10:28:49 PM |
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Please pardon the top-post -- but if you've read it once, you should
*not* read it again: its stupidity may rub off on you. After two
readings, you may have to be institutionalized.
Below you will find the lessness in meaninglessness, the vacuole in
vacuum, and the tard in retarded.
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:39:51 -0000, "Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic. Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence. For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
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| User: "Arjen Klaver" |
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| Title: Re: Decision-making using logic not feelings |
25 Nov 2003 03:08:53 PM |
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at news:3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews "Joe" <blue@sky.com> wrote in
news:3fc3bf14$0$25040$afc38c87@vipnews:
Some people see the World going by their feelings and not
by logic.
Why did you capitalize the word 'World'?
Some of these people are entitled to because it is
self-defence.
Self defence against what?
For those whom it is not self-defence it would
be rewarding to put effort into attempting to teach themselves
to think logially. This may mean breaking through conditioning.
Atheists who believe we are in a Universe on are own in
self-defence can ignore the rest of this post.
I have no clue what is wriiten here.
Why would you like to defend yourself when you are alone in your universe?
Science has not debunked supernatural therefore it may be
possible supernatural exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to indentify if you are manipulating information.
The defination of supernatural is that science has not debunked it. It is
super/out of the natural.
Science has not debunked the possibly of the existance of God
therefore it is possible God exists.
You could try to line your feelings up with this.
Try to identify if you are manipulating information.
Science has debunked the judo-xtian god (for most parts).
An example of manipulation would be to say there is too
much suffering in the World for God to exist. I say that
there is a lot of suffering but we have infinity amount of
time to get over the suffering in this life. That is not belittling
suffering though.
Since when do we live forever? I missed that memo.
Conclusion:
So..... there is a very remote change that god exist, so I should start to
worship it, I do not think so.
Greetings,
Arjen Klaver
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