| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"SReeseMe" |
| Date: |
08 Dec 2003 10:28:13 PM |
| Object: |
Declaration of Independence |
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 04:12:05 PM |
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(SReeseMe) wrote in
news:20031208232813.15599.00000519@mb-m03.aol.com:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as
proof of America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration
it says "nature and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if
i'm wrong someone here will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a
deist term than a christian one? Just a passing thought as I sit here
fighting insomina. - Stephen
You're quite correct. However, the xians love to take anything that anyone
says using the words "god" or "creator" or "supreme being" or... and assume
that everyone is talking about their particular god and then use that quote
as another tool to try and ram their religion down your throat.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 11:30:17 PM |
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And so upon Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:28:13 +0000 didst SReeseMe speak thusly:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
Nope, you're right. It's deist.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
http://nullusfides.blogspot.com/
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 12:45:09 AM |
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In article <20031208232813.15599.00000519@mb-m03.aol.com>,
(SReeseMe) wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
You are right. Many of the deists of the time rejected religious
dogma, including the divinity of Christ.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
- Question authority. Now more than ever. -
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 12:48:37 AM |
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On 09 Dec 2003 04:28:13 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
The Declaration of Indepence was written by Jefferson, who thought
Christianity was repugnant.
It is a not a document of law and has no legal status.
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| User: "pan" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 06:14:36 AM |
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On 9 Dec 2003 00:48:37 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 09 Dec 2003 04:28:13 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
The Declaration of Indepence was written by Jefferson, who thought
Christianity was repugnant.
More precisely:
Jefferson believed that Jesus was a great religious philosopher, but
he believed that all the supernatural mumbo-jumbo of the NT was a
later bastardization of Jesus's teaching. He did not believe that
Jesus was literally the son of 'God'.
Jefferson viewed the supernatural events described in the Bible as
myths, similar to those of the Greco-Roman religions.
Jefferson did not believe in a 'personal' god in the sense of the
Judeo-Christan god.
In other words:
Jefferson thought that some of Jesus's teaching from the NT was
wonderful.
But at the same time he viewed most of the Bible as a deplorable
falsehood.
pan
It is a not a document of law and has no legal status.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 09:40:10 AM |
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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 04:14:36 -0800, pan <pan@psnwREMOVE.com> wrote:
On 9 Dec 2003 00:48:37 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 09 Dec 2003 04:28:13 GMT, (SReeseMe) wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
- Stephen
The Declaration of Indepence was written by Jefferson, who thought
Christianity was repugnant.
More precisely:
Jefferson believed that Jesus was a great religious philosopher, but
he believed that all the supernatural mumbo-jumbo of the NT was a
later bastardization of Jesus's teaching. He did not believe that
Jesus was literally the son of 'God'.
Jefferson viewed the supernatural events described in the Bible as
myths, similar to those of the Greco-Roman religions.
Jefferson did not believe in a 'personal' god in the sense of the
Judeo-Christan god.
In other words:
Jefferson thought that some of Jesus's teaching from the NT was
wonderful.
But at the same time he viewed most of the Bible as a deplorable
falsehood.
pan
Yes, that's more information, but he also thought Christianity as a
religion was essentially stupid and said so more than once. To try to
use Jefferson's Declaration of Indepence as proof that this country
was based on Christianity is a patently obvious attempt at rewriting
history.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 05:47:06 PM |
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SReeseMe <sreeseme@aol.com> wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence
as proof of America being a Christian Nation.
Fundie Christians will point to a random pile of leaves and cite it as
proof that America was meant to be a Christian nation.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 08:22:50 AM |
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SReeseMe wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as proof of
America being a Christian Nation. However in the Declaration it says "nature
and nature's god." Correct me if I'm wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here
will) but isn't "nature's god" much more a deist term than a christian one?
Just a passing thought as I sit here fighting insomina.
You make the totally unfounded assumption that religious fundamentalists give a
rats ***** about the truth.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
08 Dec 2003 11:25:20 PM |
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TV's SReeseMe wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as
proof of America being a Christian Nation. However in the
Declaration it says "nature and nature's god." Correct me if I'm
wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here will) but isn't "nature's god"
much more a deist term than a christian one? Just a passing thought
as I sit here fighting insomina. - Stephen
You are correct!
--
Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything
Or were you sent to save me?
I've thought too much
You won't find anything worthy of redeeming
AFI - The Leaving Song Pt. II
aa #2133
apatriot #19
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 02:29:08 AM |
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On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:25:20 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's SReeseMe wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as
proof of America being a Christian Nation. However in the
Declaration it says "nature and nature's god." Correct me if I'm
wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here will) but isn't "nature's god"
much more a deist term than a christian one? Just a passing thought
as I sit here fighting insomina. - Stephen
You are correct!
Remember that to the hard-of-thinking fundies, any mention of god at
all can only ever mean their version.
Because in their minds that is the only one anybody they
like/respect/etc could possibility believe.
So anybody they respect who mentions it was talking about the fundies'
god. Even if they weren't.
And it "proves" the fundy god because after all they wouldn't lie,
would they?.
Likewise any document. And the more important the document, the bigger
the "proof".
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| User: "SReeseMe" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 06:25:01 AM |
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Subject: Re: Declaration of Independence
From: Christopher A. Lee
Date: 12/09/2003 3:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <bd1btvs4i45u0je8e0il40drgso409o3np@4ax.com>
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 23:25:20 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's SReeseMe wrote:
Fundie Christians love to point at the Declaration of Independence as
proof of America being a Christian Nation. However in the
Declaration it says "nature and nature's god." Correct me if I'm
wrong (and if i'm wrong someone here will) but isn't "nature's god"
much more a deist term than a christian one? Just a passing thought
as I sit here fighting insomina. - Stephen
You are correct!
Remember that to the hard-of-thinking fundies, any mention of god at
all can only ever mean their version.
Because in their minds that is the only one anybody they
like/respect/etc could possibility believe.
So anybody they respect who mentions it was talking about the fundies'
god. Even if they weren't.
And it "proves" the fundy god because after all they wouldn't lie,
would they?.
Likewise any document. And the more important the document, the bigger
the "proof".
I suspect you are correct, any reference to "god" in our founding documents the
fundies assume means their god just like they assume all the founding fathers
were bible thumping fundies like they are.
But the cynical side of me wonders do the fundie preachers eg d james kennedy
truely believe that or do they know many of the founders were deists but lie
about it to their flock?
-Stephen
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Declaration of Independence |
09 Dec 2003 07:30:49 AM |
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TV's SReeseMe wrote:
I suspect you are correct, any reference to "god" in our founding
documents the fundies assume means their god just like they assume
all the founding fathers were bible thumping fundies like they are.
But the cynical side of me wonders do the fundie preachers eg d james
kennedy truely believe that or do they know many of the founders were
deists but lie about it to their flock?
"Religion is regarded by the common folk as true, by the educated as false,
and by the rulers as useful."
--
Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything
Or were you sent to save me?
I've thought too much
You won't find anything worthy of redeeming
AFI - The Leaving Song Pt. II
aa #2133
apatriot #19
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