| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"YOELK" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2004 10:05:59 PM |
| Object: |
Deicide - a thought experiment. |
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
-----
YOELK
.
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 12:51:45 AM |
|
|
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
Not if they are thinking beings.
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
Why not?
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
Neither do I, but would you think it's ok to kill friendly space alien
visitors? I wouldn't.
Depends what you classify as people, I guess. I'm sort of inclusive of
things with consciousness and self awareness.
Mind you, if the god started smiting, I'd push the fucking button.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
| User: "Peter van Velzen" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 10:50:32 AM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<GpydnZBlOtD30-rcRVn-tg@io.com>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
Not if they are thinking beings.
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
Why not?
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
Neither do I, but would you think it's ok to kill friendly space alien
visitors? I wouldn't.
Depends what you classify as people, I guess. I'm sort of inclusive of
things with consciousness and self awareness.
Mind you, if the god started smiting, I'd push the fucking button.
Assuming Gods are consious beings, it would - of course - be wrong to
kill them. In self-defense we might, but not for any other reason
If fact though, Gods are completely spiritual, which means they only
exist in the human brain. Spiritual enities can be killed by not
thinking of them.
I say that would be OK.
Thin for yourself
Peter van Velzen
Materialist#1
Oktober 2004
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 01:32:51 PM |
|
|
"Peter van Velzen" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:7716bb89.0410210750.51eb4b73@posting.google.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:<GpydnZBlOtD30-rcRVn-tg@io.com>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
Not if they are thinking beings.
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
Why not?
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
Neither do I, but would you think it's ok to kill friendly space alien
visitors? I wouldn't.
Depends what you classify as people, I guess. I'm sort of inclusive of
things with consciousness and self awareness.
Mind you, if the god started smiting, I'd push the fucking button.
Assuming Gods are consious beings, it would - of course - be wrong to
kill them. In self-defense we might, but not for any other reason
If fact though, Gods are completely spiritual, which means they only
exist in the human brain. Spiritual enities can be killed by not
thinking of them.
I say that would be OK.
That works for sufficently lame values of "exist". ;-)
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ike" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 09:28:05 AM |
|
|
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa. If
it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
.
|
|
|
| User: "YOELK" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 02:29:36 PM |
|
|
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<VHPdd.3144$%h1.704@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa. If
it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
I'd define gods as a very powerfull sentient and inteligent beings,
capable of existance over time that exceed human life by orders of magnitude,
that mingle with human affairs.
I'd define killing as an act of removing from existance.
-----
YOELK
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ike" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 09:01:36 PM |
|
|
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410211129.1858aa94@posting.google.com...
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:<VHPdd.3144$%h1.704@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa. If
it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you
would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods
to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that
cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons
than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
I'd define gods as a very powerfull sentient and inteligent beings,
capable of existance over time that exceed human life by orders of
magnitude,
that mingle with human affairs.
I'd define killing as an act of removing from existance.
I just can't imagine it. First you say you don't believe in them-it, then
want to imagine killing it. It's an outlandish idea to imigine one in the
first place, much less how to get rid of it.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
.
|
|
|
| User: "YOELK" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
22 Oct 2004 04:50:56 AM |
|
|
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<4SZdd.3811$KJ6.2485@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410211129.1858aa94@posting.google.com...
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:<VHPdd.3144$%h1.704@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa. If
it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you
would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods
to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that
cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons
than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
I'd define gods as a very powerfull sentient and inteligent beings,
capable of existance over time that exceed human life by orders of
magnitude,
that mingle with human affairs.
I'd define killing as an act of removing from existance.
I just can't imagine it. First you say you don't believe in them-it, then
want to imagine killing it. It's an outlandish idea to imigine one in the
first place, much less how to get rid of it.
What is wrong with imagination?
as long you can differentiate it from reality...
-----
YOELK
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
22 Oct 2004 06:18:38 AM |
|
|
Ike wrote:
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410211129.1858aa94@posting.google.com...
"Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:<VHPdd.3144$%h1.704@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa.
If it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you
would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods
to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that
cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons
than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
I'd define gods as a very powerfull sentient and inteligent beings,
capable of existance over time that exceed human life by orders of
magnitude,
that mingle with human affairs.
I'd define killing as an act of removing from existance.
I just can't imagine it. First you say you don't believe in them-it, then
want to imagine killing it. It's an outlandish idea to imigine one in the
first place, much less how to get rid of it.
Gods are easy to kill. You just stop believeing in them.
Osirus. Dead. Zeus. Dead. Mithra. Dead.
Easy.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 12:12:21 PM |
|
|
Ike wrote:
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
First you have to define gods and then define killing. Or vice versa. If
it's a thought experiment and you don't believe gods exist, then you would
be killing something that doesn't exist. Since you compare killing gods to
cows, and hypothetically killing another person, do you believe that cows
exist other than as a food source? Do you believe that other persons than
yourself exist except hypothetically?
Sounds like the premise for a bad Sci - Fi movie.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kathy" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 12:05:44 AM |
|
|
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828@posting.google.com...
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
If we could kill them, then they wouldn't be very impressive gods.
Kathy aa #1802
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jim07D4" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 12:11:25 AM |
|
|
(YOELK) said:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
I think it would be morally obligatory. ;-) or maybe ~;-)
Jim07D4
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Woden wodencharternet" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
20 Oct 2004 11:02:42 PM |
|
|
(YOELK) wrote in news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828
@posting.google.com:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
I don't know.... do they taste better than cows when BBQ'd?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
-----
YOELK
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 12:38:00 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns9589A4B6E9wodencharternet@216.168.3.44>,
Woden <wodencharternet> wrote:
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828
@posting.google.com:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
I don't know.... do they taste better than cows when BBQ'd?
Godburgers anyone?
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
BTW, I don't think there are any gods...
-----
YOELK
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 06:13:33 AM |
|
|
johac wrote:
In article <Xns9589A4B6E9wodencharternet@216.168.3.44>,
Woden <wodencharternet> wrote:
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828
@posting.google.com:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
I don't know.... do they taste better than cows when BBQ'd?
Godburgers anyone?
Mmmm might be tasty, what sauce you got ?
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
22 Oct 2004 12:45:15 AM |
|
|
In article <3N-dnUVLhPCHB-rcRVnyvA@pipex.net>,
Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <Xns9589A4B6E9wodencharternet@216.168.3.44>,
Woden <wodencharternet> wrote:
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in news:28891102.0410201905.17be0828
@posting.google.com:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
I don't know.... do they taste better than cows when BBQ'd?
Godburgers anyone?
Mmmm might be tasty, what sauce you got ?
I like mine with a slice of raw onion, a few slices of bread and butter
pickles, and a dash of ketchup, Heinz of course.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
-The ability to change one's mind, ideas, and opinions when confronted with
new facts is the sign of the rational and intelligent. The inability to do
so is the hallmark of the dimwitted and the fanatic. This applies not only
to science and philosophy, but also to politics.-
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 03:38:14 PM |
|
|
YOELK <jkrup@shani.net> wrote:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
No, not unless they were attacking or afflicting humans.
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
Irrelevant.
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
Well, for starters, humanity has not reached a unanimous conclusion
about the morality of killing cows. Hundreds of millions of people
denounce the practice.
That aside, cows are not considered to be particularly intelligent,
meaning they are not capable of the kinds of thinking and planning and
feeling that makes humans human. Gods, presumably, would be thinking
beings.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 05:12:57 AM |
|
|
YOELK wrote:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
If you could kill Satan, would you?
Even if it made the GOP weepy and mad?
I would say yes. They are not human after all,
why can't we kill gods if we can kill cows?
Depends on the goddess. Does she have friends?
How powerful are they?
We may have to kill them all.
Gang warfare.
IOW, I can see that killing another person is wrongful
(except in special circumstances), but I don't see it applies
to gods as well.
Some of them may be like cockroaches.
We are better off without them.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "chris h fleming" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 06:38:16 PM |
|
|
wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message news:<417798cd$0$173$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>...
YOELK wrote:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
If you could kill Satan, would you?
Even if it made the GOP weepy and mad?
According to the Bible, Satan helped man obtain the knowledge of good
and evil so that we could be like *them* (God plural). Meanwhile the
god of the Old Testament was an irrational tyrant. Given a choice,
Satan sounds like my kind of god. He reminds me of Prometheus.
Is Satan really all that bad? All the people killing each other in the
middle east are God worshipers worshipers.
.
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Deicide - a thought experiment. |
21 Oct 2004 08:06:12 PM |
|
|
chris h fleming wrote:
wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:<417798cd$0$173$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>...
YOELK wrote:
Lets assume for the sake of argument that there were gods,
and that humans could somehow kill them.
Do you think it is OK to kill them?
If you could kill Satan, would you?
Even if it made the GOP weepy and mad?
According to the Bible, Satan helped man obtain the knowledge of good
and evil so that we could be like *them* (God plural).
No, it was just a busybody snake with a big mouth.
Satan doesn't come around til he tempts Jesus in
the new testament.
Meanwhile the
god of the Old Testament was an irrational tyrant. Given a choice,
Satan sounds like my kind of god. He reminds me of Prometheus.
Is Satan really all that bad? All the people killing each other in the
middle east are God worshipers worshipers.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
